Creative Zen Vision M (iPod's Suck!)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 21, 2006, 7:02 am

I'm buying the Creative Zen Vision M player tomorrow and will give it a fair review once I've had it a few days.

A few of the reasons I'm going with the Zen Vison M over the Video iPod (and these are confirmed over and over everywhere I look)

1. The Zen sounds better than the iPod...repeat...it SOUNDS better...what is the most important thing to you? Sound has to rank pretty high for an audio player eh?.

2. The video screen blows Apple's away. 256 colors vs 64. Brighter, crisper, not a single person said the iPod has a better screen.

3. Apple has some lame ass quicktime format everything has to be in. The Zen plays flawlessly: DivX 4 and 5(5), XviD(5), MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG4-SP, WMV9 and Motion-JPEG. You Apple geeks have fun converting everything! (a huge waste of time and pain in the ass over downloading whatever and playing in the Zen)

3. Along with playing all the major formats, the Zen also works with Tivo-to-Go....that's the BEST DVR out there, not some lame Apple format again. TiVo > all other DVRs.

4. Zen includes a USB 2.0 cable, A/C adapter. That's right Apple lovers, you don't have to pay more for an AC adapter. (why the fuck wouldn't that be standard?)

5. Zen has an FM Tuner while Apple has some non integrated add-on you need to pay more for.

6. Zen allows you to make FM recordings of any length and also set a timer to record when you wish. Apple iPod has jack shit.

7. Zen has a built in Mic and again allows you to record lectures, etc for any length. Apple has jack shit.

8. About now, I need to remind you that the Creative Zen SOUNDS better and the Video looks better than the iPod. (key points to remember on top of everything else...other minor things like much better battery life for the Zen)

9, Apple has something gay called iTunes and you're locked into it with an iPod. Zen allows you to use services like napster, rhapsody, Yahoo!, msn music, aol music, or virgin digital (best price per month). Wherever you decide to download your music, it will work on the Zen.

10. The battery issue is no contest between the Zen and Apple. 12 hours for music, 4.5 hours for video...enjoy your 2 hours (not even enough for some movies) on your COOL iPod. Zen battery = replaceable...iPod = send into Apple for $150.00 and new battery...right in the ass!

11. You can assign up to 16gb of the Zen to be used as an external HD and place any files you wish on it. Apple has jack shit.

12. The Zen has it's own software or it can be used directly with Windows Media Player 10 for creating playlists, managing, downloading album art, etc. With Apple, you have iTunes and that's it. You can link any podcast service to the Zen as well. Apple = forced conversions, forced software...Zen = optional software, open format, and ability to use whatever you want.

Lets recap so far...

Zen vs Apple

Zen has:

-Better battery life
-sounds better
-better screen
-better video
-multiple video formats
-included key accessories
-multiple audio formats
-multiple mp3 services
-FM Tuner
-FM Recording
-Mic recording
-Ability to use as external HD to transport data

So what's important to you?

Best sound? (afterall, you're listening to it!)
Most format compatibility and smoothest looking video on the best, brightest screen?
Work with Tivo-toGo, best DVR on the market?
Not being bound to a single format, single service?
Not having to convert everything to a single format? (time wasted)

Why the fuck would you buy an iPod? I can't fucking stand them. Suck some more Steve Jobs cock! Blind as bats...loving that proprietary crap! Convert, convert convert!

Honestly, the Apple iPods seem like a huge pain in the ass...forcing you to use iTunes, use Quicktime (convert everything), use whatever audio format they use (convert), run on crappy battery, and to top it off, they sound worse. Make you use iTunes software on an otherwise perfectly good PC.

Biggest argument so far pro Apple is that iPods are "cool". um, ok. Why don't you go beat up the weird kid in the corner? That'd probably be considered cool too!

What the hell is wrong with you people! Stop buying those overpriced, bareboned, under featured, proprietary PoS iPods!

CHICKENFUCKERS!

I hope this Creative Zen Vision M turns out to be a winner after all of that!

The buttons light up!

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 21, 2006, 11:49 am

Creative also has been in the music biz for a long ass time as their primary business. Very few companies have ever been able to compete against their sound cards.

I did some shopping for a MP3 player last XMas for my wife. I ended up paying $40 for a 512MB player. Now you might think that is small but who the fuck needs 40GB of music. I have a pretty large collection of MP3s(something like 7000) and it only takes up 10-15 GB. I just thought the IPods were WAY overpriced. Leave it to Apple to screw something up again. They are making a lot of money off the IPod but they won't be able to sustain it for any length of time.

Winnow - What was the price difference between the Creative and IPod devices?

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » March 21, 2006, 11:50 am

How am I supposed to read a Winnow post that lacks pictures?

I read the first line, scrolled down excitedly, and instantly went sad.

You fail.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 21, 2006, 12:19 pm

i too would like pictures. and possibly a digital version of what the creative zen vision m player would look like in second life.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 21, 2006, 12:22 pm

I haven't noticed that I was tied down to only usin iTunes at all. You can import your current library and use the iPod like normal. My only complaint is actually due to not checking out other iPods before getting the Nano. My hand is too big and my thumb hits the wheel when I try to click da button.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 21, 2006, 1:20 pm

Finally someone else who likes the Zens as much as me!

Can't wait for the feedback, I have a nice tax return coming and I'd like to get one.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 21, 2006, 2:16 pm

Syenye wrote:i too would like pictures. and possibly a digital version of what the creative zen vision m player would look like in second life.

Bah! There are iPod fakes in Second Life but no Zens. I'm slacking on picts!

Deward: The cost is within $20.00 (the Apple is less). That +20.00 gets you better sound, better video, better screen, AC adapter, FM/Mic, Multiple Format compatibility, and a longer lasting battery.

Rumor has it that Apple is coming out with a touch screen video iPod with 4" screen possibly as soon as April first so Apple worshippers may hold out to see what happens with that. If you love converting things to quicktime and fingerprinting up the screen you are also going to view, the new iPod may be a consideration if you don't like any extras at all and paying extra because it's "cool".

Here's link to official Zen M site although it's a Flash type site which is annoying:

http://www.creative.com/products/mp3/zenvisionm/

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 21, 2006, 2:24 pm

Deward wrote:I did some shopping for a MP3 player last XMas for my wife. I ended up paying $40 for a 512MB player. Now you might think that is small but who the fuck needs 40GB of music. I have a pretty large collection of MP3s(something like 7000) and it only takes up 10-15 GB. I just thought the IPods were WAY overpriced.

40GB may seem like a lot for a portable device, as that's a lot of hours worth of music, but overall it's not that much. I'm probably over 300GB by now and I don't even download that much. 512MB is too small though as that's about what, 10 hours? I guess it just depends on your use. I personally would find 512MB inconvenient as I'd have to copy over new songs every day. 5GB would be my minimum starting capacity.

Don't forget that it can be used for other things besides just MP3s.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 21, 2006, 2:46 pm

30GB is a decent size but since video is involved, more is always better.

Some people have monstrous collections of music so even 15K songs isn't enough.

I was reading the Creative forums and people packed quite a bit of video in 30gb..entire three seasons of family guy, 15 movies, some music videos, simpsons, etc one guy had on his Zen along with a ton of music and pictures.

I want all of my music available on my portable player but I'm only looking for maybe 10-15 movies, maybe a series like Firefly, a couple episodes of a current series I'm watching, FLCL, and some other oddball videos on my player. I'm interested in getting into downloading podcasts and the new video ZenCasts for something to watch at lunch, etc. I don't want a little portable screen to hold all of my video but at least to have room for a variety of videos.

By next year, 60-100GB portable music/video players will be standard. I'll buy another one then if needed...can't be always waiting to buy things!

My main reason for getting something now it to hold all of my music and maybe get myself to organize it (although Copernic rocks for finding things..type.mp3 and all of your mp3's are listed no matter where they are on your network all in one place within a second or two...which reminds me. I'm long overdue for another Copernic rant)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 21, 2006, 4:41 pm

I went to Fry's and picked up a Zen Vision M at lunch. The only Zen's left on the shelf were pink. All remaining signs of manliness almost went out the window as I had a pink Zen in my hand but thankfully there was a green one behind the counter. While Syenye might like a pink player, I'd probably get a black or white one if they were available. Green will have to do! ($299)

I'm at work so can't play around w/out people bothering me! Shoo!

FYI, Fry's didn't have Elder Scrolls IV in stock for 360 or PC yet. 4pm was their best ETA guess.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 21, 2006, 5:27 pm

Winnow wrote:While Syenye might like a pink player, I'd probably get a black or white one if they were available.

that pink is way cute and i think it would match my purse and my nintendo DS... f the ipod, i'm sold!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 21, 2006, 5:52 pm

How big is the screen? I'm too lazy to google.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 21, 2006, 6:59 pm

Screen is same size as iPod's (2.5 inches)

Some pictures (may Red-X)

German site, will probably red-x for sure!

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 21, 2006, 7:03 pm

also, all apple products are powered by their own sheer awesomeness.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » March 21, 2006, 11:19 pm

and magic! dont forget that apple is powered by magic!

Im waiting for a player that is smart enough to accept apple commands for headunit and stereo integration... then Im in...

Apple does have the aftermarket interface market cornered.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 22, 2006, 12:23 am

I'm sure Winnow will really feel awesome about this purchase when in June Apple rolls out the widescreen video ipod that supports bluetooth headphones and has a touchscreen (since the screen occupies the entire face of the product).

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 22, 2006, 1:22 am

I am pretty sure he said he despised touch screens since you leave fingerprints on them...

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » March 22, 2006, 1:44 am

Voro has been reading about the vaporware developed by apple nutswinging photoshop gurus everywhere.....

While cool looking... its a fake.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 2:28 am

Voronwë wrote:I'm sure Winnow will really feel awesome about this purchase when in June Apple rolls out the widescreen video ipod that supports bluetooth headphones and has a touchscreen (since the screen occupies the entire face of the product).

I hope your hands are clean so it's not too hard to see through all those fingerprints! I know I wouldn't get it just for that reason alone (not to mention all of the other predictable Apple faults that are bound to come with any future product)

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » March 22, 2006, 9:12 am

Timely post, Winnow. Been thinking of buying a device (I want to rip my 'Learn German' CDs and store them on something for ease of use). Everyone I know has one of those iPod thingies, so it's hard to get a real 'word of mouth' read on the marketplace.

I look forward to your review.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » March 22, 2006, 1:50 pm

It's a shame Microsoft doesn't have a portable MP3 player so I could witness Winnow inhaling that cock even more.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 22, 2006, 1:51 pm

On a related note...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/21/technol ... tm?cnn=yes

In a note to clients, Wu said he believes the company is readying a wide-screen video iPod with Bluetooth headphones that could be ready as early as the June quarter. The analyst said his checks indicate that Apple is working on such a product.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 2:01 pm

Ogbar wrote:Timely post, Winnow. Been thinking of buying a device (I want to rip my 'Learn German' CDs and store them on something for ease of use). Everyone I know has one of those iPod thingies, so it's hard to get a real 'word of mouth' read on the marketplace.

I look forward to your review.

Here are some initial thoughts after one night of playing around on the Zen Vision: M

Sound:

Outstanding. It sounds great out of the box. There are about 15 preset EQ settings as well as a base boost of some sort if you feel like playing around with them.

Video:

Excellent. There's only so much you can say about a 2.5" screen but it's bright and crisp. I loaded The Family Guy Movie, Napoleon Dynamite, Office Space, and the one hour Firefly pilot. All looked and sounded great.* I wondered if the small screen would be useless but I can easily see watching movies, TV series, etc on is while travelling or otherwise away from your home.

Music:

I did install the Creative software but I'm not using it. People on the creative forums recommended a free app called Media Monkey and it's been great so far. It allows you to scan your HDs, and then provides powerful tools to arrange your mp3's before synching them with your portable player. I screwed up and hit auto synch right after my initial scan of my HDs and ended up transferring just under 2,000 MP3's to my Zen in about 10 minutes. (not bad at all).

For the MP3 portion of the Zen, I recommend the Free Media Monkey app for sure.

One thing that I need to get used to is that I can't just drag over a folder of music and find that folder. Everything is organized on the Zen via ID3 tag info...so now I need to use playlists and find other ways to associate groups of songs that I want to hear together. I need to delete all the music I just transferred and play around a little in Media Monkey to get things the way I want.

User Interface:

First thing you need to do is set the touchpad to low sensitivity. I thought I was using the Force to move things around just by hovering my hand over the pad it was so sensitive. After setting it to low and playing around a little, it's working out well as are the four corner buttons and side touchpad buttons. Reponse is fast for movies, mp3's and moving around the menus.

FM Tuner:

Clear reception. 32 presets. Not much to say except it's one touch recording for FM so you can easily grab part of a song you want to remember to get or whatever as well as set the timer to record something if you want. The recorded audio sounds good (exactly as it sounds over the air)

Color:

Green sucks. I'm probably going to take it back and get a different color. Black, White, Blue, even Pink would be ok. Light green just doesn't do it for me. The eight colored themes for the screen UI are nice though.

Formats:

It seems that AC3 is a major pain in the ass for portable players. Zen doesn't support AC3 audio as well as some other portable players. That happens to screw up a lot of divx and xvid videos so they can't be used...thankfully I did some research and Jet Audio (free for me, will cost you honest types) will recode AC3 to standard mp3 format fairly quickly. I converted the 700mb Firefly pilot in about 5 minutes. Just be aware of the AC3 issue. It's still leap years better than Apple iPods but you'll need to recode audio for AC3 divx/xvid videos.

Overall impressions so far:

MP3/Video players have come a long way. If your music collection is organized, an app like Media Monkey will get your entire collection (up to 15K songs) onto your Zen in a timely fashion with searches available my Artist, Title, Album, Genre, etc, etc.

It's pretty amazing to be able to fit so much audio and video into such a small device with great battery life. (my battery indicator is still at full after a night of screwing around).

I once again, confirmed why I love Copernic so much as my MP3's are scattered all over my network and I can get a complete list of them in a couple seconds and refine the search quickly using the great indexing/serching tools of Copernic. I don't listen to music album by album so am going to have to get used to playlists I guess.

I like that the last ten or so songs/videos you watch are remembered by the Zen and restart where you left off. The Zen has some default playlists like last 50 songs, most popular, album of the day, etc to help a little with finding things.

I don't know if the iPod is different in this respect, but I like to organize my own music via folders and can't do that with the Zen using ID3 tags. basically you can just drag all of your music in one big mess over to the Zen if you wanted as long as your tags are accurate. Nice but I want to groups songs as collections in folders as well....the only way I can do this now it to locate all of the songs I want and rename something like the Album ID3 tag to something unique to all the songs I want in order to find it by album search and play that virtual folder as a group.

Ogbar, your ripping of German language CDs should work well with the Zen with it's ability to remember where you left off on the last 10 or so audio/video sources viewed. Your files would be organized easy enough with IDs tages or you could quickly group tag them yourself using Media Monkey.

If you are used to searching via Album, Title, Artist and using Playlists, you'll like the Zen. The photo part is straight forward and simple enough to use so you can put 10's of thousands of pictures onto the Zen if you want although I don't see extensive use for it save for loading up pictures to show people on trips using the out to TV as a slideshow or something. You can also view all videos easily on a normal TV. (that cable costs extra!)

I'll post more thoughts in a couple days as one night isn't enough to figure out everything and see how day to day use will be for the UI and video/audio management. Both seem to be getting easier as I play around.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 22, 2006, 2:21 pm

this won't help you winnow, but to fix incorrect id3 tags, try this site: http://musicbrainz.org/

how is it with creating and modifying playlists? that's one of the things i dislike about the ipod. and is the volume control mechanism the same as the song switching mechanism? and do you actually push the buttons or is it just touch? and where do babies come from?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 3:04 pm

Syenye wrote:this won't help you winnow, but to fix incorrect id3 tags, try this site: http://musicbrainz.org/

how is it with creating and modifying playlists? that's one of the things i dislike about the ipod. and is the volume control mechanism the same as the song switching mechanism? and do you actually push the buttons or is it just touch? and where do babies come from?

I forgot to add that there are keyword and partial keyword searchs as well. The search results can be made into instant playlist if desired.

Playlists aren't my specialty but I was able to make them pretty easy using the creative Zen browser on my PC and it was easily modifiable. You can use whatever your favorite playlist creation app is. Any playlist I already had was imported during the synch using Media Monkey. You can create on-the-fly playlists (add songs to existing playlist, etc) within the Zen itself but I don't know if or how you create permanent ones using the player itself.

Volume is usually the default for the up and down sliding motion on the touchpad unless you're in the menus or searching lists. If it isn't, you just hit the bottom right button to access the hotmenu and can then adjust volume. I was concerned about not having a physical volume knob but it's not an issue at all and the volume adjusts higher or lower quickly if needed.

There are "physical" buttons...the touchpad can also be depressed four ways right/left, up/down. Switching songs is just a right/left click on the touchpad or fast forwarding songs/videos is a click and hold to the right/left of the touchpad...the speed of forward/reverse accelerates the longer you hold it down so it's a small jump to begin with and then starts leaping minutes, then chunks of minutes as you hold it down...seems ok and the video/song pops back on quickly.

There are also four buttons outside of the touchpad area. You can see the little backlit areas in the pictures but the buttons are actually the entire quarter of the surface so they are easy to press and operate.

Pressing the bottom left button backs you step by step out of the menu you're in but holding it down for a second gets you right back to the main menu so that's easy enough. Top left button can be configured to take you with one click to a certain list, etc. It's a shortcut button. Upper right button is play/pause and also instant record if listening to FM. Bottom right brings up context sensitive menu depending on what you're doing.

A good place to get some thoughts positive and negative is amazon's user reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/custom ... e&n=172282

Those are always hit and miss but worth a look taken as a whole.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 22, 2006, 3:20 pm

FM Tuner:

Clear reception. 32 presets. Not much to say except it's one touch recording for FM so you can easily grab part of a song you want to remember to get or whatever as well as set the timer to record something if you want. The recorded audio sounds good (exactly as it sounds over the air)

Isn't a FM tuner/recorder pretty much unecessary bloat?

The only thing I ever listen to on the radio is news/talk/sports which (in my area) exists exclusively on AM.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 22, 2006, 3:24 pm

I am beginning to think that it is not Copernic which is great, but it is Winnow's lack of organizational skills which is greater.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 22, 2006, 3:28 pm

Boogahz wrote:I am beginning to think that it is not Copernic which is great, but it is Winnow's lack of organizational skills which is greater.

Probably.
I don't have to search for my MP3s or any other files for that matter. I know exactly where everything is on my file server box.
I tried coppernic for a while but found that I rarely ever used it. I'm sure it's a fine app for those who scatter thier files randomly all over their hard drives.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » March 22, 2006, 3:32 pm

I have had a 20GB Creative Zen Touch for a year and a half or so and I have been really happy with it. My main problem with it at the moment is that it is full

. At some point I will look for one with more storage (and possibly video capabilities as well). I'll have to check out the vision when I do.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 4:37 pm

miir wrote:
Isn't a FM tuner/recorder pretty much unecessary bloat?

The only thing I ever listen to on the radio is news/talk/sports which (in my area) exists exclusively on AM.

What bloat? An FM tuner takes no sizable space. Even the smallest MP3 players have them. Apple is just lame. AM > Fm but FM > Nothing and Phoenix has a great Jazz station. I'll never have jazz MP3's but like to listen to jazz as well as like to hear what new songs are out from time to time. I don't watch MTV so it's the only way I'll hear anything new (except now that I play Second Life, I hear all the new stuff with lots of live streaming audio DJs and music in that game)

There's no bloat to speak of and it's dirt cheap to add. So is a Mic/recorder function for those that attend boring lectures etc.

For all of you Apple fanboi/lovers, Creative has been around making MP3 players much longer than Apple. I have three generations of creative players. Even my ancient 64mb small creative player had an FM tuner. You seem to gloss over the fact that Creative players sound better..wow, important don't ya think?...well probably not for those that don't mind a washed out 64K color Apple screen or lack of any extra features to speak of....but the commercials are cool and your grandmother recognizes the word iPod so everything's ok! That's great marketing. Grats! Now lets get back to which player is actually better.

As for Copernic, I don't care how well organized you are. If you've got a shitload of files, having a powerful search engine like Copernic is a huge time saver. I may know exactly where a file is but can get to it faster by typing in the name and hitting return than navigating folder trees. Same goes for more advanced searches. I have a bazillion images. If I want a sunset image, typing sunset is quick...searching 50,000 images for a sunset isn't quite as fast...unless you place all of your sunset images in one folder which is doubtful...and even then it's faster to just type in a search and have them all in a second than navigate folder trees.

Copernic is the greatest app ever for those that want instant access to everything they have or bring together related files..picts, videos, mp3s, text, emails (full document indexed) that will never all be stored in the same location on your HD even if you are more anal about organizing than Felix from the Odd Couple.

You're just wasting time by not using Copernic or someting similar. The masses will catch on later.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 22, 2006, 4:56 pm

What bloat? An FM tuner takes no sizable space.

Bloat = Features that the majority of consumers will never use but look impressive on a spec sheet.

For all of you Apple fanboi/lovers

Who are these mysterious Apple fanbois you keep talking to?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 5:27 pm

miir wrote:
What bloat? An FM tuner takes no sizable space.
Bloat = Features that the majority of consumers will never use but look impressive on a spec sheet.

I disagree that an FM tuner is bloat.

As for your views on Copernic...old people are perfectly happy still using the huge Yellow Pages book to find things while others seem to think finding what they want is faster using an online version of the yellow pages or other online method. It's cute in a sad kind of way.

"When I was a kid, I had to navigate 30 levels of subdirectories sometimes to find what I was looking for...and liked it!" Hey, I still know DOS commands too but am not going to use them unless I have to!

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 22, 2006, 5:40 pm

miir wrote:
For all of you Apple fanboi/lovers
Who are these mysterious Apple fanbois you keep talking to?

that would be me. or fangrrrrrrl rather.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » March 22, 2006, 5:44 pm

I think FM tuners may be aimed more at the European market, over here all the good radio stations are FM based, and it is a firm requirement for me that an mp3 player has an fm tuner. That is why I don't own an Ipod.

I am looking into getting myself a decent mp3 player and monitoring this thread closely!

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » March 22, 2006, 5:49 pm

Ogbar, your ripping of German language CDs should work well with the Zen with it's ability to remember where you left off on the last 10 or so audio/video sources viewed. Your files would be organized easy enough with IDs tages or you could quickly group tag them yourself using Media Monkey.

All sounds good. I'll have to check out this Media Monkey stuff, too

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 22, 2006, 6:01 pm

Winnow wrote:
miir wrote:
What bloat? An FM tuner takes no sizable space.
Bloat = Features that the majority of consumers will never use but look impressive on a spec sheet.
I disagree that an FM tuner is bloat.

As for your views on Copernic...old people are perfectly happy still using the huge Yellow Pages book to find things while others seem to think finding what they want is faster using an online version of the yellow pages or other online method. It's cute in a sad kind of way.

"When I was a kid, I had to navigate 30 levels of subdirectories sometimes to find what I was looking for...and liked it!" Hey, I still know DOS commands too but am not going to use them unless I have to!

LOL, I loved the second section here about Copernic seeing as how NO new posts were made about it before your last response.

I think Winnow needs to wipe the drool off his chin.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 22, 2006, 6:11 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Winnow wrote:
miir wrote:
What bloat? An FM tuner takes no sizable space.
Bloat = Features that the majority of consumers will never use but look impressive on a spec sheet.
I disagree that an FM tuner is bloat.

As for your views on Copernic...old people are perfectly happy still using the huge Yellow Pages book to find things while others seem to think finding what they want is faster using an online version of the yellow pages or other online method. It's cute in a sad kind of way.

"When I was a kid, I had to navigate 30 levels of subdirectories sometimes to find what I was looking for...and liked it!" Hey, I still know DOS commands too but am not going to use them unless I have to!

LOL, I loved the second section here about Copernic seeing as how NO new posts were made about it before your last response.

I think Winnow needs to wipe the drool off his chin.

I'm not saying that Coppernic isn't a good app, but for someone like myself it serves little-to-no purpose. I work with some disorganised slobs who could really benefit from using it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 22, 2006, 6:44 pm

miir wrote: I'm not saying that Coppernic isn't a good app, but for someone like myself it serves little-to-no purpose. I work with some disorganised slobs who could really benefit from using it.

Ah, but that was my whole point. Copernic is also good for the anal people that are obsessed with organization. It's less about helping the disorganized and more about what the most efficient way to quickly search and find things is no matter what your filing system is. It just so happens that the organized person has no advantage over the cool fun loving slobs in this case.

If only Microsoft would buy Copernic and then somehow integrate the engine into a portable media player.

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » March 22, 2006, 7:05 pm

"...your grandmother recognizes the word Windows so everything's ok! That's great marketing. Grats! Now lets get back to which operating system is actually better."

My comment has nothing to do with iPods, or even Apple (although it *is* UNIX-related), but it reminds me of a discussion I had recently regarding the Windows operating system in general (specifically, Windows as a server platform).

Microsoft is all about marketing and Winnow just eats it up, but shame on Apple for being good at marketing their MP3 player! I dig most of your posts, Winnow, it's just hard to figure out sometimes when you're being for real and when you're just being a troll/fanboi.

Edit: Yeah, yeah this has nothing to do with Creative. So to add something Creative-related...HOW ABOUT THAT DR. SBAITSO!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 23, 2006, 12:59 am

Syenye wrote:this won't help you winnow, but to fix incorrect id3 tags, try this site: http://musicbrainz.org/

Being as I tag a lot of stuff I decided to give this a try. The automatic tagging idea interested me. But then I remember I normally have par2 files and if the tags are edited QuickPar will think the files are damaged and repair them. So... That's out.

If it didn't find the album in its database it seemed a bit basic for editing them yourself. That could just be because I don't really know how to use it fully. Anyway, I think I'll continue using Tag & Rename. While it doesn't have auto processing I find it much more flexible and powerful for how I use a tagger. But thanks for the info!

Also, it seemed a bit slow. On the other hand it is free whereas T&R costs $30.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 23, 2006, 4:26 am

Aslanna wrote:
Syenye wrote:this won't help you winnow, but to fix incorrect id3 tags, try this site: http://musicbrainz.org/
Being as I tag a lot of stuff I decided to give this a try. The automatic tagging idea interested me. But then I remember I normally have par2 files and if the tags are edited QuickPar will think the files are damaged and repair them. So... That's out.

Have you tried Media Monkey? I've only had a day's experience with it but it seems very nice for grabbing album art (linked to Amazon's DB) and batch changing ID3 tags. For the moment, I've actually switched to Media Monkey as my MP3 player as well. It's free. It's cool. 9/10 people on the Creative forums listed it as their Music Manager of choice.

Curious what people think that have used other music/tag managers.

http://www.mediamonkey.com/

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 23, 2006, 6:03 am

Haven't tried that one. Tag & Rename pulls information from FreeDB and also Amazon. I like getting the cover and reviews if they have them.

Will look at it over the weekend maybe. It will have to be pretty good to displace T&R!

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 23, 2006, 12:36 pm

a lot of the t/r programs i've used in the past either rename the files based on tags, or vice versa. the musicbrainz project does acoustic fingerprinting, which is kinda neat, so it fixes problems with incorrect filenames and tags.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 23, 2006, 2:55 pm

I just checked Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA and Fry's. None of them have the Zen Vision M in stock online or in local stores.

It's popular but I'm wondering if a new model is coming out. Outpost.com (Fry's Online) has all but the Black one in stock online.

I've got 28 days to see if a 60gb version is imminent.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 23, 2006, 3:30 pm

Syenye wrote:a lot of the t/r programs i've used in the past either rename the files based on tags, or vice versa.

True. Which is why I make sure my tags are correct before renaming. Not a problem!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 23, 2006, 6:00 pm

Ransure wrote:Voro has been reading about the vaporware developed by apple nutswinging photoshop gurus everywhere.....

While cool looking... its a fake.

the picture is fake, but the rumor is real. I read it in the Wall Street Journal.

its still a rumor of course.

We can go into the details of what makes creative's player from a hardware standpoint equal or better than its apple competition, but it has one huge shortfall on the software side.

iTunes is a much nicer piece of software than WMP. Its probably the most user friendly CD burner in the world.

Apple doesnt go overboard on features which initially was annoying to me, but it actually keeps them focused on delivering on every aspect of the brand promise.

Microsoft did some test marketing of one of their concepts recently, and they viewed it as a success that a common response was that the concept looked like it was designed by Apple.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 23, 2006, 7:36 pm

Syenye wrote:a lot of the t/r programs i've used in the past either rename the files based on tags, or vice versa. the musicbrainz project does acoustic fingerprinting, which is kinda neat, so it fixes problems with incorrect filenames and tags.

Oh sure, now you guys want to talk about musicbrainz.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 23, 2006, 7:42 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Syenye wrote:a lot of the t/r programs i've used in the past either rename the files based on tags, or vice versa. the musicbrainz project does acoustic fingerprinting, which is kinda neat, so it fixes problems with incorrect filenames and tags.
Oh sure, now you guys want to talk about musicbrainz.

i only read posts that have a high probability of containing second life screenshots.

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » March 24, 2006, 12:56 am

Voronwë wrote:Microsoft did some test marketing of one of their concepts recently, and they viewed it as a success that a common response was that the concept looked like it was designed by Apple.

And that, in a nutshell, sums up the last 25 years at Microsoft

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 24, 2006, 1:16 am

Winnow, change your title to "lots of pics!".