Why Bush is a coward

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 4, 2003, 11:00 am

Maskele may be a tard, but at least he has a grasp of grammar, puncuation, and spelling. I've never STFU'd someone as quickly as Wadada.

Teh Axis of Evil speech was the single stupidest thing that Dubya did. At least we got a fucking hilarious SNL skit out of it...

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 4, 2003, 11:45 am

Listen Masekle you stupid little fuck and listen close. I have been posting on the vault for going on four years. My very first post was in regards to Kalaran getting banned, and I was flamed from the masses. Hell, I can remember Cartalas coming to the boards and getting owned thread after thread. Same with Fairweathe Pure (who posted under Sleezack). They as well as I got over it and still posted. We did not, however, go on a crusade to preach to others how to fucking type. We understood how it went and didn't try to change the world. This was the same for most everyone in this board. If you read the FAQ it tells you up front this isn't for the faint of heart.

It's people like you that I watch come and go over the years, and it's people like you that will continue to come here over the next couple years. They have this blind expectation that we know about them in RL. If you get your feathers ruffled on an online messageboard, then simply don't post here. I could give a flying fuck about anyone in your family. If they all commit suicide, OD, or whatever other boring excuse you seem to come up with, I still wouldn't give a fuck. I don't air my personal matters everytime someone flames me in hope for some sympathy. And I suggest the same for you. You want to come here throwing you emotions out on the board, like we could care. We don't. Not one single person that posts here gives a shit about you and your family IRL. Same for me, and everyone else that posts here. If some 'dork' here posts something you don't like you can either skip over it or put the person on STFU. But no, you don't, you read everything the person says, knowing you'll get mad, and sure enough when they post, you (gasp) get mad. And that is why we all laugh at you, because you try so hard to defend yourself, and that is why the "bandwagon" comes after you.

The main reason I come to this board is the simple fact that stupid fucking crybabies like yourself try to give us the same, boring speech on how we should all play nice. And as long as dipshits like yourself and Wadana continue to post here, I will continue to come here. So please post away, because you are too dense to grasp all that I just said, and will more than likely post some stupid nonsense in response to this.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 4, 2003, 11:48 am

I rike the use of bandwagon in quotes, very effectives~

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 4, 2003, 11:50 am

Zamtuk wrote:Hell, I can remember Cartalas coming to the boards and getting owned thread after thread. .

Well not Thread after Thread

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 4, 2003, 11:52 am

Yeah, you all tore me a new one when I first posted on the vault. Assholes.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » March 4, 2003, 11:56 am

Cartalas V. Aranuil
Taco Bell flaming was the pwn.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 11:59 am

Xou, how big is the STFU list? I've doubled the size of mine this week already.

For those of you who think the axis of evil speech caused the trouble with NK,

Wake

The

Fuck

Up

NK is angling for more aid money during a period of distraction, because they can't feed themselves and continue to pump millions into expanding their army without it. Tell you what. Take another look at NK when the furor over Iraq settles. You will see them go back to being quiet (on the international stage anyway) in a big hurry.

And yes, the Axis of Evil speech was a stupid goddamned thing to do.

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » March 4, 2003, 12:08 pm

Zamtuk wrote:Listen Masekle you stupid little fuck and listen close. I have been posting on the vault for going on four years. My very first post was in regards to Kalaran getting banned, and I was flamed from the masses. Hell, I can remember Cartalas coming to the boards and getting owned thread after thread. Same with Fairweathe Pure (who posted under Sleezack). They as well as I got over it and still posted. We did not, however, go on a crusade to preach to others how to fucking type. We understood how it went and didn't try to change the world. This was the same for most everyone in this board. If you read the FAQ it tells you up front this isn't for the faint of heart.

It's people like you that I watch come and go over the years, and it's people like you that will continue to come here over the next couple years. They have this blind expectation that we know about them in RL. If you get your feathers ruffled on an online messageboard, then simply don't post here. I could give a flying fuck about anyone in your family. If they all commit suicide, OD, or whatever other boring excuse you seem to come up with, I still wouldn't give a fuck. I don't air my personal matters everytime someone flames me in hope for some sympathy. And I suggest the same for you. You want to come here throwing you emotions out on the board, like we could care. We don't. Not one single person that posts here gives a shit about you and your family IRL. Same for me, and everyone else that posts here. If some 'dork' here posts something you don't like you can either skip over it or put the person on STFU. But no, you don't, you read everything the person says, knowing you'll get mad, and sure enough when they post, you (gasp) get mad. And that is why we all laugh at you, because you try so hard to defend yourself, and that is why the "bandwagon" comes after you.

The main reason I come to this board is the simple fact that stupid fucking crybabies like yourself try to give us the same, boring speech on how we should all play nice. And as long as dipshits like yourself and Wadana continue to post here, I will continue to come here. So please post away, because you are too dense to grasp all that I just said, and will more than likely post some stupid nonsense in response to this.

Ruffled feathers?

This may be stupid nonsense to you. Guess what, I have been tieing my shoes for 40 some years I tie them the same way I did the very first time I did it. Point is if you do the same thing for 4 or 40 years it doesnt neccisarily make you an expert at it.

Play nice is a pretty broad statement, I never play nice. I tried in the first few post you made towards me to be civil in my replies. I somehow felt sorry for you. I have always been a champion of the underdog. Your continued "BANDWAGON" (guru) jumping managed to sway my opinion of you.

If for some reason you think your limited intellectual feedback is going to make me tuck tail and run for cover. I hope you have plenty of food, water and other essentials handy. Its going to be a long stay.

Another thing, you are alone in life. Never forget that, it makes no difference how much you think of yourself as part of any group. No matter what you do to make yourself look better in any group. When the chips fall and the dipshits hit the floor, you are alone.....

Please dont embarass yourself, by trying to defend your actions to me I could care less =)

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 4, 2003, 12:08 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Zamtuk wrote:Hell, I can remember Cartalas coming to the boards and getting owned thread after thread. .

Well not Thread after Thread

Aye, probably not, though there were a couple good threads on it.

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » March 4, 2003, 12:20 pm

My stupid nonsense is up there for you Zamtuk

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 4, 2003, 12:21 pm

The Axis of Evil speech just proved to me that when it comes to International Politics, Bush is a lightweighter.. no maybe even featherweight, and he is up agains heavyweighters in the form of China's leader, Russia's leader and yes, even Hussein. Imho Bush has backed himself into a corner with no way out now when it comes to Iraq. Since Iraq has started destroying weapons and digging up alleged old sites for chemical weapon destruction, Bush can't really attack now or he will look like a hyge hypocrit to most of the world. If he attacks now, you bet relations with Middle-Eastern countries will go to all hell. As would relations with European countries. If he doesn't attack, he will lose face since he keeps claiming what is happening now is not enough.

I don't like Hussein whatsoever (even though I don't necesarily agree on the war), however I'd dare say he has played an excellent political game and outplayed Bush.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » March 4, 2003, 12:25 pm

Masekle wrote:My stupid nonsense is up there for you Zamtuk

The flame must not have been that great if you have to explain who you are flaming you moron.

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » March 4, 2003, 12:32 pm

Sabek wrote:
Masekle wrote:My stupid nonsense is up there for you Zamtuk
The flame must not have been that great if you have to explain who you are flaming you moron.

I wasnt explaining who I was flaming. I was making sure he saw the little yellow flag, with my name next to it. somehow he managed to get in a post after mine as mine came up on my screen. I am DL'ing a bunch of crap ATM

I thought I told you to STFU my posts?

Please... I have no reason to fuck with you. Why do you want to make one?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » March 4, 2003, 12:39 pm

My memory of that NK sequence as of late began when they got caught developing their nuclear program after *promising* Jimmy Carter the Clinton gang not to. (Remember Jimmy got a Nobel piece prize the week before because of this)

We (US, SK, Japan etc.) were to pay NK in fuel oil, food aid and light water reactors if they kept their weapons grade nuclear program shut down.

Once we caught them violating the agreement, we stopped aid. In response NK started all of this postering in an attempt to scare us back into sending them the supplies that the current regeme depends on to hold power.

They got caught violating a treaty. I could be wrong but I don't think it started with Bush's speech.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » March 4, 2003, 12:39 pm

Masekle wrote:I thought I told you to STFU my posts?

About the most sensible thing I have ever seen you post.

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » March 4, 2003, 12:45 pm

Sabek wrote:
Masekle wrote:I thought I told you to STFU my posts?
About the most sensible thing I have ever seen you post.

Its a damn good thing I dont place any emphisis on your sensibility.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 4, 2003, 1:05 pm

My memory of that NK sequence as of late began when they got caught developing their nuclear program after *promising* Jimmy Carter the Clinton gang not to.

Yes. And I believe the only reason they broke the treaty was due directly to that speech. They are preparing their defenses and options against possible US aggression, similar to what is currently taking place against Iraq. This is kind of a "chicken and the egg" situation.

The whole US policy of preemptive strikes against possibly/future hostile countries holds terrifying ramifications. There has been a drastic change in world opinion in reguards to America over the last 2 years. We have to wake up and realize wtf we are doing wrong and change things before it's too late.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 1:08 pm

Fairwether,

I think you need to read that again. The point was that NK was caught breaking the treaty long before the Axis of Evil speech.

Years before. A defector from NK made the claim that their program never stopped at all, it was simply moved to an underground site.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 4, 2003, 1:16 pm

I don't think the "Axis of Evil" speech had any affect outside the US. Here in the US it had the following effects:
if IQ>75, then lose respect for Dubya
if IQ<75, then gain respect for Dubya, let's roll.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 4, 2003, 1:20 pm

Masteen,
As a non-American I can safely say that speech got a LOT of space in European newspapers etc. And none of it was favourable. In fact, I think that speech did a lot to boost the anti-Bush feelings in Europe.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 4, 2003, 4:20 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:My memory of that NK sequence as of late began when they got caught developing their nuclear program after *promising* Jimmy Carter the Clinton gang not to. (Remember Jimmy got a Nobel piece prize the week before because of this)

We (US, SK, Japan etc.) were to pay NK in fuel oil, food aid and light water reactors if they kept their weapons grade nuclear program shut down.

Once we caught them violating the agreement, we stopped aid. In response NK started all of this postering in an attempt to scare us back into sending them the supplies that the current regeme depends on to hold power.

They got caught violating a treaty. I could be wrong but I don't think it started with Bush's speech.

haha deluded revisionist history at it's finest. man, I am not sure if that is funny or depressing.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 4, 2003, 4:25 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote: haha deluded revisionist history at it's finest. man, I am not sure if that is funny or depressing.

What's the point in talking politics with such blatant ignorance?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 4:28 pm

The move came after the United States cut off fuel oil aid to Pyongyang because the North Koreans admitted in October to violating the 1994 pact by clandestinely implementing another program to obtain nuclear weapons products.

The standoff is similar to that in 1993-94, in which the Clinton administration reportedly contemplated a pre-emptive strike on the Yongbyon nuclear reactor to stop North Korea's attempt to obtain nuclear weapons. Instead, it induced North Korea to stand down with offers of fuel oil and other aid.

Thou shalt read before condemning another. Adex has a fairly accurate take on the issue.

They have been violating the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty since at least 1994. One source says they simply never stopped their research, only shut down the most visible production facility.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » March 4, 2003, 4:32 pm

I dont' seek to revise history, I'm just trying to remember the sequence of events as I recall them from watching the news etc.

Kyo, what part of my timeline is out of sequence? Correct me if you spot something.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 4:35 pm

http://www.ceip.org/programs/npp/korea.htm

Pretty good piece on the agreements with NK and why things haven't moved faster.

I was unaware that South Korea was carrying the bulk of the financial load for the reactors. Seems they haven't come up with any funds yet, hence no reactors.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 4, 2003, 4:38 pm

They have been violating the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty since at least 1994. One source says they simply never stopped their research, only shut down the most visible production facility.

North Korea agreed to a framework to become part of the Non Proliferation Treaty.

The basis of that framework relied on the USA providing power plants and NK ceasing their production of weapons grade plutonium.

Both parties are guilty of renegging on this framework.

No power plants were provided and Notrh Korea never fully deactivated all of their existing nuclear power plants.

North Korea should never have been included in the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty as a main requisite for them adhering to it was a promise by the USA that could never be fulfuilled.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 4:40 pm

Read again.

The reactors were to be financed by the USA, Japan and South Korea.

The US has provided the design, come up with a contractor, but no funds have been made available to start the project.

Also note that the DPRK NEVER STOPPED their nuclear program. They never had any intention of living up to the agreement they signed.

Y'all really need to get off this anti-US crusade and read a bit of history before you start shouting that Bush is the bad guy again.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 4, 2003, 4:41 pm

miir wrote:
They have been violating the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty since at least 1994. One source says they simply never stopped their research, only shut down the most visible production facility.
North Korea agreed to a framework to become part of the Non Proliferation Treaty.

The basis of that framework relied on the USA providing power plants and NK ceasing their production of weapons grade plutonium.

Both parties are guilty of renegging on this framework.

No power plants were provided and Notrh Korea never fully deactivated all of their existing nuclear power plants.

North Korea should never have been included in the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty as a main requisite for them adhering to it was a promise by the USA that could never be fulfuilled.

Or maybe it was the other way around the U.S never upheld there end of the deal becuase the NK end was not fullfilled.

You see we are all making our comments on what we read and see in the news or someone elses ideas on what happened or what was said. The bottom line is you and I were not there.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 4, 2003, 4:43 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Read again.

The reactors were to be financed by the USA, Japan and South Korea.

The US has provided the design, come up with a contractor, but no funds have been made available to start the project.

Also note that the DPRK NEVER STOPPED their nuclear program. They never had any intention of living up to the agreement they signed.

Y'all really need to get off this anti-US crusade and read a bit of history before you start shouting that Bush is the bad guy again.

What are you not understanding here?
Where did I post any anti-US statements?

A deal was made.
Both parties didn't live up to their end of the deal.
Deal was broken.

I'm sorry that you view the truth as being 'anti USA'.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 4, 2003, 4:46 pm

so you are saying you're not anti-American Miir, you come across that way. Look at your Avatar for one~

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 4:46 pm

The basis of that framework relied on the USA providing power plants........ Both parties are guilty of renegging on this framework.

That's false and anti-USA. The United States was not to provide the reactors, we were asked to provide the design and the contractor, which has been done.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 4, 2003, 4:47 pm

It's not anti american, it's pro iraq.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 4, 2003, 4:49 pm

If you are pro-Iraq, then you are anti-American..because 99.9% of Iraqi's do not like the US.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 4, 2003, 4:50 pm

Gurugurumaki wrote:If you are pro-Iraq, then you are anti-American..because 99.9% of Iraqi's do not like the US.

I am kinda getting that feeling about Canadians too.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 4, 2003, 4:52 pm

I think Mirr just likes to stir shit up, hes really not a bad Canadian~

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 4:54 pm

/knock knock

Hello?

The agreement reached between the US and NK has nothing to do with Iraq.

Either withdraw the statement that the US has renegged on the agreement or support your claim.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 4, 2003, 4:54 pm

Fallanthas wrote: That's false and anti-USA. The United States was not to provide the reactors, we were asked to provide the design and the contractor, which has been done.

Did construction of the power plants ever commence?
Who brokered this deal/framework with North Korea?

What's the point in discussing this with you.
In your mind, the USA holds no liability in the framework that they agreed to with North Korea.

Both principles in the agreement are at fault.

The framework should never been agreed upon as the USA were never able to uphold their end of it and North Korea had little intention of upholding their end.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » March 4, 2003, 5:00 pm

Has anyone ever tried Korean Cuisine?
Mm-mm good

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 4, 2003, 5:01 pm

Sorry Xyun, needed to vent and assumed you would realize that half of the stuff I said was just a rant. Didn't mean to get too much started.

Marb

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 5:06 pm

Miir,

Ok, let's go slowly. I wouldn't want to lose you again.

The United States is not responsible for funding the reactors. The SoK and Japan are supposed to do that.

The US agreed to provide 500,000 tons of oil a year until the reactors were built.

We have.

The US was asked to provide a design for the reactors, because the North did not trust a design given them by South Korea.

We did.

The US was asked to provide a contractor to build the two plants.

Again, we did so.

The plants are not being built because NO FUNDS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO DO SO.

See above for the countries responsible.

Again, back up your point or withdraw it. I am getting sick of the unsupported bashing of my country.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 4, 2003, 5:07 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:I dont' seek to revise history, I'm just trying to remember the sequence of events as I recall them from watching the news etc.

Kyo, what part of my timeline is out of sequence? Correct me if you spot something.

neither side lived up to the Agreed Framework laid down in deal that was laid down.

in as layman as I can make it for you, the pacific rim asked north korea to stop researching nuclear energy and making weapons grade plutonium, north korea said no. The US brokered a deal under the clinton administration (and other international parties with a stake in a stable and nuke free north korea) to build two light water reactors for north korea (LWR's waste can't be refined into weapons grade material), and until then they would supply north korea with various amounts of fuel oil.

Shortly after the deal was made, the republicans took over congress and decided that the money would be better off spent on corporate welfare, abnormally huge farm subsidies to massive farming corporations more bombs, and more taxpayer money to whatever other special interest they were living in the pocket of, so they didn't sign any money over to pay for the reactors. North korea not getting their reactors and not even seeing any progress on getting them built decided they weren't going to live up to their end of the deal either.

This is how things went on a very basic level. It is a touch more complex than OMG THE USA CAN DO NO WRONG NORTH KOREA IS EVIL HEY WE MADE A DEAL AND THEY TOTALLY BETRAYED US.

It is also more complicated than WOW NORTH KOREA IS JUST SABER RATTLING TO GET MORE AID MONEY FROM US HOLY CRAP WE CAN DO NO WRONG HOW CAN THEY BE SO EVIL.

But I am quite sure I have just wasted another 5 minutes of my life explaining this to some of you. again.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 4, 2003, 5:08 pm

Viva Cuba!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 5:08 pm

Not a waste at all Kyuo. Always good to hear the other side.

You are wrong, but hey! That never stopped anyone on this board before.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 4, 2003, 5:10 pm

Just Curious was Canada involved in the Korean War?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 4, 2003, 5:11 pm

Fallanthas wrote:You are wrong.

wow, you owned me.

hey tell me; did you clamp you hands over your ears, squeeze your eyes shut real tight and chant that?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 4, 2003, 5:11 pm

Cartalas wrote:Just Curious was Canada involved in the Korean War?

Yes.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 4, 2003, 5:12 pm

No, I read a few things on the subject.

The US is not responsible for paying for the reactors. If YOU did a little reading, you might even find out who is.

**psst, it's right in this here thread!**

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » March 4, 2003, 5:13 pm

Yeah the Canadians supplied the beer for the Korean war.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 4, 2003, 5:13 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Just Curious was Canada involved in the Korean War?
Yes.

Where they on the NK's or SK's Side ( No just kidding)

Was Canada involved in the Nuke Treaty?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 4, 2003, 5:15 pm

the korean war was a joint deal between the US, UK, Canada and Australia. The commonwealth was mostly there in support roles and some combat however, because they weren't as paranoid about communism.