Washington not returning to Grey's Anatomy

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Funk, Feel free to refuse to acknowledge whatever you want. If you would, please go up and read my initial post on this issue, especially the part about not engraving your beliefs into stone until you've done a lot of thinking about the issue and feel certain that you have a full understanding that incorporates multiple perspectives.

There's no point to arguing about this, because it's really the sort of thing that you learn through experience, not the sort of thing that I (or anyone) can explain.

Funk, you're a hip-hop sort of guy, right? I've always gotten the impression that you're involved in whatever hip-hop scene exists in whatever part of Minnesota you live in. You must have black friends, no? Have you talked to them about their take on the word "nigger," when it's acceptable to use it, who's permitted to use it, etc? If you have, and they say "a word is a word is a word no matter who uses it, no matter what context," then fine, but in my experience the vast, vast majority of black people do not feel this way. Is there no validity in their perspective and their experience of the use of the word?

Additionally, saying that 'if "they" can use it, I can use it' is indicative of a troubling worldview that aggregates all (insert minority) into one generalization. Not ALL black people use it. Are you going to stop and find out if the black person you're using the word in front of is the sort of black person who uses it or not? Are you just going to go with your generalization and say that because SOME black people use it, it's ok for you to do so? Or are you (most likely) never ACTUALLY going to say the word in a manner that might offend someone in front of a black person, rendering the question irrelevant?

Fash: Respect is due for being honest about yourself. We all have insecurities, but not many of us will admit to them.

Just because black people don't want white poeple to use the word, doesn't mean by using the word you mean harm upon the black person. The word itself is not threatening. A white guy using that word in the presence of black people is an ignorant asshole looking to get a beating. However, a white guy using that word to describe a scum bag of the black persuasion amongst the presence of other white people, is not necessarily done in a threatening context and does not make that person a racist. A black guy talking amongst other black guys about a trailer park southerner scum bag calling them a "redneck" or a "cracker", doesn't mean they are racist or mean harm upon that white guy. Context matters.

[Sueven]

I'm talking about effects, not intents. I agree that plenty of people use slurs without meaning harm. That doesn't mean that the use of the slurs is not harmful.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I'm talking about effects, not intents. I agree that plenty of people use slurs without meaning harm. That doesn't mean that the use of the slurs is not harmful.

It does though. The intent affects the effects.

[Funkmasterr]

Funk, Feel free to refuse to acknowledge whatever you want. If you would, please go up and read my initial post on this issue, especially the part about not engraving your beliefs into stone until you've done a lot of thinking about the issue and feel certain that you have a full understanding that incorporates multiple perspectives.

There's no point to arguing about this, because it's really the sort of thing that you learn through experience, not the sort of thing that I (or anyone) can explain.

Funk, you're a hip-hop sort of guy, right? I've always gotten the impression that you're involved in whatever hip-hop scene exists in whatever part of Minnesota you live in. You must have black friends, no? Have you talked to them about their take on the word "nigger," when it's acceptable to use it, who's permitted to use it, etc? If you have, and they say "a word is a word is a word no matter who uses it, no matter what context," then fine, but in my experience the vast, vast majority of black people do not feel this way. Is there no validity in their perspective and their experience of the use of the word?

Additionally, saying that 'if "they" can use it, I can use it' is indicative of a troubling worldview that aggregates all (insert minority) into one generalization. Not ALL black people use it. Are you going to stop and find out if the black person you're using the word in front of is the sort of black person who uses it or not? Are you just going to go with your generalization and say that because SOME black people use it, it's ok for you to do so? Or are you (most likely) never ACTUALLY going to say the word in a manner that might offend someone in front of a black person, rendering the question irrelevant?

Fash: Respect is due for being honest about yourself. We all have insecurities, but not many of us will admit to them.

Yes I do have black friends, no they would not mind if I used the word around them, I have been told on more than one occasion that I am the only white person they would tolerate saying the word. And when I have been told that I told them I thought it was ridiculous. There is no excuse to allow those fucking double standards to exist, either the word is ok or it is not. And if you say it is not ok, then you god damn well better not be using it. I just think it's pathetic that anyone would even argue the point, because it's really not a matter of opinion, some ignorant people just make it seem that way.

[Zamtuk]

I'm sure Funk isn't stupid enough to use that word in front of people other than his friends. (could be overreaching in my assumption, though) I actually use it a lot in front of my black friends (all 3 of them!), and in the context I use it they never have a problem. Then again, it could be the type of friends you have.

It should be noted that using the word 'nigga' over 'nigger' is also imperative in not offending black people.

[Sueven]

Zamtuk, the reaction of Funk's (and your) friends is totally in line with my expectations. Both of you are saying that your black friends are OK with some limited number of white people using the word in some limited number of situations. What Funk is saying is that it's OK for any white person to use the word in any situation (or at least 'most any' person in 'most any' situation).

[Funkmasterr]

Zamtuk, the reaction of Funk's (and your) friends is totally in line with my expectations. Both of you are saying that your black friends are OK with some limited number of white people using the word in some limited number of situations. What Funk is saying is that it's OK for any white person to use the word in any situation (or at least 'most any' person in 'most any' situation).

I think you are not catching my main point. For any word like faggot, nigger chink, homo, slant, slope, spic, wetback, wop, etc etc.. Either it is an ok word to use or it isn't (it isn't in almost all cases to MOST people), and if you aren't ok with someone else saying that word (whatever color/sexual orientation they might be) then you shouldn't be saying it either.

[Sueven]

I understand your point and think it's retarded for reasons that I've previously stated. But that's neither here nor there.

All I was saying is that your black friends disagree with your point. That's all.

[miir]

admit I am homophobic... Simply put, I stay away from gay dudes... no offense to them, I just won't become close friends with one in RL for personal reasons that have nothing to do with them, which I'm sure stem mostly from my own insecurities and the amount of thoughts (read: worry) about what others are thinking about me.

Yeah, I avoid being friends with negroes because I'm afraid that people might start thinking that I'm a negro.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

admit I am homophobic... Simply put, I stay away from gay dudes... no offense to them, I just won't become close friends with one in RL for personal reasons that have nothing to do with them, which I'm sure stem mostly from my own insecurities and the amount of thoughts (read: worry) about what others are thinking about me.

Yeah, I avoid being friends with negroes because I'm afraid that people might start thinking that I'm a negro.

Okay. That's funny.

[Zamtuk]

Oh, I see what you are saying. Yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

[Sueven]

Fash: A question purely out of curiousity. What about lesbians? Would you feel comfortable befriending a gay woman?

[Fash]

Fash: A question purely out of curiousity. What about lesbians? Would you feel comfortable befriending a gay woman?

Yes, I like lesbians... even the butch ones... We have something in common, we like chicks.

My direct supervisor is one and her partner works with us, they're good and funny people and I'm comfortable around them in and out of work.