Creative Zen Vision M (iPod's Suck!)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 25, 2006, 12:07 pm

iTunes sucks.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 25, 2006, 12:36 pm

Aslanna wrote:iTunes sucks.

No, you suck!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 25, 2006, 1:02 pm

Booger,

I'm testing out iTunes to see if it will work better for grabbing podcasts since it's going to be a little while longer before Apple completely loses the faith of podcasters with their petty name trademark whining of which the result will be the loss of subtle advertising for iPods when podcasts start being called netcasts or something.

Media Monkey still works great for managing music, etc.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 25, 2006, 1:23 pm

The thing is, they were called things like netcasts before the iPod. Now they just have a different channel for distribution and have taken on the name of the "most popular" product used to play them. Personally, I would prefer that they not be called podcasts/zencats. They aren't meant for playback on only one product, and naming them in that way makes some people think they have to have the product they're named after.

Overall, I like iTunes. I find the "podcasts" I listen to there most of the time. They're fairly easy to navigate after the first few times. I haven't used it to purchase any music since the majority of my music comes in the hard circular format called a CD from local shops. If I find the CD to be crap, I sell it back to CD Warehouse for store credit towards something else. My sister purchases movies and music from iTunes, and it suits her needs just fine. She has very little time to actually leave the house just to shop for things like that, and using iTunes is very easy for her to do while taking care of her kids.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 30, 2006, 8:55 pm

Since I received one of the new generation iPod Nanos as a B-Day gift, I'll give my impressions.

I have to say, right off the bat, for my specific needs (podcasts), the Nano/iTunes combo can't be beat.

First, some general comments. I am liking the smaller size of the Nano/ram solution over the larger hard drive video players. Now that I know what I need in a portable player, for me, video isn't required, so there are a few benefits in favor of a ram based player over the hard drive MP3 players. The smaller size for a shirt pocket, 24 hour battery life and instant-on as opposed to HD power up delay are nice features. All of these benefits aren't unique to the iPod but worth mentioning.

What's impressive to me, and specific to the iPod and iTunes is how Podcasts are handled. From finding podcasts to sync'ing them, everything is done extremely well. iTunes places a little blue dot next to newly downloaded podcasts that is visible in iTunes and also on the iPod, and then syncs the podcasts to the iPod. Once you've listened to a specific podcast, the blue dot goes away and iTunes deletes the podcast during the next sync session and uploads the new podcasts downloaded from the net. Zencast has a more primitive method of this but nowhere near as well done.

The other nice thing the iPod/Nano does is remember where you pauses every podcast you listened to...not just the last one...so, for example, you could listened to several podcasts, pausing them all at various stages, listen to some music, and then return to any of the podcasts and resume at the spot you left off. That's a great feature for podcasts as some of them can be 90-120 minutes and I sometimes leave off in the middle to check out a different podcasts then return.

The last thing is that iTunes is simply the best place to find Podcasts atm.

Fortunately, I don't have to listen to music on the Nano so the sound quality doesn't come into play with podcasts.

The only interesting thing about iTunes beyond Podcasts is that they seem to offer premiere episodes of TV series for free download so that's a nice way to check out a new series to see if you might like it then get it elsewhere.

I give the iPod Nano/iTunes combo an A+ specifically for handling podcasts. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people here listen to podcasts as I don't hear much talk about them so the one good reason to own an iPod doesn't come into play.

As for Visionless Chest Control (tm) in a shirt pocket, it's not as good as the Creative Zen's touchpad. It's way too hard to change songs/tracks this way and takes some fiddling around to adjust the volume which isn't always a bad thing as long as no one is watching you play with your chest makig it appear you're rubbing your nipple in a circular motion trying to work with the goofy circular iPod touchpad... So, with some effort, you can adjust the volume via the shirt pocket method but forward/back isn't going to happen.
Summary...go for an iPod (nano, the Video iPods blow chunks atm and I wouldn't consider one until there's a new release on those) if you are hooked on podcasts like me. Use iTunes for grabbing the free podcasts and to sync them, grab free TV shows, and then use another music organizer/service for the rest of your mp3 needs. For any other reason under the sun, get something other than an iPod.

I'm stuck using this Nano and iTunes until podcasts are handled better by another player and then it's Sianara, Aufwiedersehen, and Gooood-bye to this thing. Either that, or I'm fired for feeling myself up at work trying to adjust the volume.

Post by **Xouqoa** » October 31, 2006, 4:27 pm

I just got the Zen Vision:W and it's sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 31, 2006, 4:47 pm

Xouqoa wrote:I just got the Zen Vision:W and it's sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy.

A few weeks ago when the Vision:W's just came out, there was a Creative Rep at Fry's that demo'd it for me. The screen on it was great!

I've got to say, the Creative rep was hot too. She had a tattoo behind and below her ear (I suppose that could also be called the neck!) but it went well with her Creative polo shirt. She would have most likely put an Apple rep to shame in one of those faggoty Apple commercials where they use people to represent products.

Grats on the new toy Xou!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 31, 2006, 8:07 pm

Cheap and slutty eh, I see how it is.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 9, 2007, 6:16 pm

MacWorld is going on right now. Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone.

Another day or two and it's time to short AAPL again! I hope it hits 100 first though with all the hype! Buy buy buy!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 17, 2007, 10:13 pm

Gizmodo posted "Mac Chick of the Month" but if you read the comments, it sort of backfired!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/tag/mac-chic ... 237615.php

Post by **pyrella** » April 30, 2007, 4:05 pm

Looking at the 60gb vision W to upgrade my 30gb M - any user experiences?!?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 30, 2007, 4:17 pm

pyrella wrote:Looking at the 60gb vision W to upgrade my 30gb M - any user experiences?!?

How bad do you need the upgrade? A new season of products isn't too far off. We may see 32GB solid state mp3/media players this year. (although that won't help you if you need 60gb)

I'm determined to not buy anything else based on a hard drive except for mass storage on my PC mainly due to battery life. Samsung has made some breakthroughs so 64GB solid state iPod Nano sized mp3 players should be around within a year as well. They may be pricey though and we're talking many months before this stuff is available.

Apple Sucks.

Post by **pyrella** » April 30, 2007, 5:20 pm

With more looking - the only 'easily' available Vision W around is a 30gb model - which should actually be fine for me. As far as battery life goes - if it's anything like the M, I have no complaints - I have never actually used up the entire battery before recharging it out of hand, or connecting it to sync some files.

In fact, I'm fairly on again, off again with it - and this last time, I probably hadn't hooked it up in almost a month - and it was reading at 90%+ battery power without having been hooked up in weeks/a month.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 30, 2007, 6:04 pm

pyrella wrote:With more looking - the only 'easily' available Vision W around is a 30gb model - which should actually be fine for me. As far as battery life goes - if it's anything like the M, I have no complaints - I have never actually used up the entire battery before recharging it out of hand, or connecting it to sync some files.

In fact, I'm fairly on again, off again with it - and this last time, I probably hadn't hooked it up in almost a month - and it was reading at 90%+ battery power without having been hooked up in weeks/a month.

Ah, I remember why my battery didn't/doesn't last as long with my Creative M. For some stupid reason, the Creative Zencast software converted all podcasts into AVI movie files so all the long audio zen/podcasts I listened to were eating up my batteries being treated as videos. I would love to stop using my nano for podcasts and will as soon as decent podcast software comes out for creative that doesn't convert podcasts to avi files and keeps them organized. I hate having to use an inferior Apple product (well, inferior except for iTunes(Specifically used for managing podcasts)

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 1, 2007, 3:26 am

I regret having bought my ipod last year because of that retarded slow piece of shit known as iTunes. Maybe interested in hucking the ipod into the river and buying something else that isn't a lazy and freakishly buggy scratch-prone craptonicplank.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2007, 9:45 am

Canelek wrote:I regret having bought my ipod last year because of that retarded slow piece of shit known as iTunes. Maybe interested in hucking the ipod into the river and buying something else that isn't a lazy and freakishly buggy scratch-prone craptonicplank.

There seriously must be some number of iPods that are just fucked up somehow because a) I know you're not an asstard b) I have no fucking clue what you're talking about on any of your above points

I've got an 8GB nano and have been using Itunes for (4?) years now, and except for the software issues I had when 7.0x came out, I've never, ever had the types of problems you've described, and I use my iPod and iTunes extensively every single day.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 1, 2007, 11:43 am

This one (30GB Video) is the second--it was replaced when the sound-output died. My current issue is that I just hate itunes and was venting because it erased my songs when synching, which is most likely because of user error. I was venting.

I still hate Mac stuff... WHERE IS CHOOSER EH?????

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2007, 11:48 am

I've never had (or wanted) a video iPod.

I also frequently back up my music, and normally have the entire library in about 3 places JUSTINCASE!!!!!

That sucks though.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 1, 2007, 1:02 pm

iTunes (hate to say it) isn't that bad when it comes to sampling music/videos, etc before buying. iTunes has wiped out my nano a few times which really pisses me off when it happens as I need to reconfigure podcasts and then get the downloads squared away again so I'm downloading only new episodes. I can't complain too much as there's no alternative but it's not perfect, that's for sure.

My nano always freezes after installing the week's worth of podcasts (I only download once a week) so I need to go through the reboot process for my nano each week which took me awhile to figure out how to do the first time. Now it's like second nature to "reboot" (think of it as blue screen of death) my nano after a download. (move slider to lock position then back to released position, hold down middle button and menu button for 3-5 seconds to reboot)

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2007, 1:32 pm

The one criticism of iTunes I hear a LOT is that you can't just drag and drop files onto your iPod like a folder/directory in Windows.

Maybe it's because I've spent a ridiculous amount of time making sure that all of my ID3 tags (for music I bought/ripped/acquired prior to the iTunes store) have all the correct information, but I don't get it. If all of your music is fully tagged, it's trivial to organize your iTunes music, and you can easily make playlists that you can drag and drop in and out of, not to mention smart playlists are simple to set up, and allow you to have basically auto-updating playlists.

I have a bunch of specific playlists (artists, albums, genres, etc.), and a few that I just drag and drop the music in and out of in the exact way that people say iTunes doesn't allow. iTunes also allows me to pick which playlists actually get synched with the iPod.

The biggest legitimate knock on the iPod/iTunes combo I've heard is that you can only manage your music with iTunes if you want to use your iPod. Once Apple succeeds, and I'm starting to think they will, in getting rid of the bullshit that is DRM, this complaint will go away as well. DRM-less music will be able to be managed by any application.

That said, if you've got your music tagged correctly, and you've honestly tried to use iTunes for more than a few weeks, I can't imagine why you'd not like iTunes. If anyone can name features and functionality that's available in another music management app that makes it better than iTunes or at least a better choice for you than iTunes I'd be interested to hear about it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 1, 2007, 2:15 pm

Media Monkey is an outstanding, fast, music manager if you don't need a store. It can recatalog my collection of songs fast and keeps them up to date each time I open it. Very fast searches, has album art, extensive tools, etc.

http://www.mediamonkey.com/

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 1, 2007, 3:56 pm

I actually had a somewhat recent backup on disk--extracted via EphPod. Somehow I lost some ID3 info though and need to sort through iTunes tedium to fix now. =/ ah well, it is better than a WalkMan!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2007, 5:18 pm

I thoughty ID3 info was part of the MP3/AAC file?

Maybe when you get it back up and running, select all the songs in your library and then right click and convert your ID3 tags to the latest version...

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 1, 2007, 5:43 pm

noel wrote:I thoughty ID3 info was part of the MP3/AAC file?

It is.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 15, 2007, 5:32 pm

Oooh, this looks promising.

It's a new iTunes sync to any MP3 player app:

http://www.binaryfortress.com/itunes-sync/

iTunes Sync

Do you have iTunes? Do you have an iPod? I guess you don’t have an iPod, otherwise you probably wouldn’t be reading this. I have iTunes, I don’t have an iPod, but I wanted to be able to sync my MP3 player with iTunes, regardless of what brand it was… and so iTunes Sync was born. In just a few easy steps you can synchronize any iTunes playlist with any MP3 player that shows up as a drive letter in Windows (pretty much all of them do). It’s as simple as 3 easy steps:

* Setup a playlist in iTunes that you want to sync to your MP3 player
* Configure your MP3 player in iTunes Sync by giving it a name, selecting an “identification file or folder” and selecting a playlist from iTunes
* Now just click Synchronize and watch the magic happen!

You can configure as many different MP3 players as you need and synchronize each one with the different iTunes’ playlists. Amazing! Magic! Technology!

I'll have to check this out on my Zen. If it handles the Podcasts correctly it might be a solution for those wanting to take advantage of iTunes ability to handle Podcasts well but otherwise avoid the rest of the Apple related products.

I'm still on the lookout for another app that handles podcasts well.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 21, 2007, 7:14 pm

For those looking for their next portable video/mps player, keep this one in mind:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/enough-alrea ... 271037.php

Anything but Apple!

This one looks very promising!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » June 21, 2007, 9:12 pm

As of today, iPod has officially jumped the shark.

Have you seen that new Paul McCartney commercial? Good fucking god.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » June 21, 2007, 10:15 pm

I'm still loving my M, and use it mainly in the car. I bought an iPod shuffle a while back to replace my cheapo lightweight player for when I'm running. It's the first time that I've really messed around with iTunes, and I have to say it's not as fucked up as I expected it to be from all the negative stuff I'd heard about it. I don't use it as my default manager / player, but I can see why people like it. I just use it when I need to sync my shuffle. It's still super annoying that I can't just drop files on it, but it's not so bad.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » June 21, 2007, 10:24 pm

Xatrei wrote:I'm still loving my M, and use it mainly in the car. I bought an iPod shuffle a while back to replace my cheapo lightweight player for when I'm running. It's the first time that I've really messed around with iTunes, and I have to say it's not as fucked up as I expected it to be from all the negative stuff I'd heard about it. I don't use it as my default manager / player, but I can see why people like it. I just use it when I need to sync my shuffle. It's still super annoying that I can't just drop files on it, but it's not so bad.

theres a nice open source program you put on the shuffle, put your mp3's in, and run the program... it builds the shuffle database.
i think it's called rebuild db. I gave mine away when I bought a sansa..... then i lost the sansa. shit.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » June 22, 2007, 12:05 am

Yeah, I looked at that when I first got my shuffle, but didn't give it much more than a glance since I wasn't really looking for an iTunes replacement so much as a way to just dump files onto the player from within explorer like I could with my old cheapo player. Since you can't really do that, I don't mind going through iTunes to do it. I can transfer files & do the DB updates with MediaMonkey also, but I don't bother.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 22, 2007, 12:55 am

Xatrei wrote:Yeah, I looked at that when I first got my shuffle, but didn't give it much more than a glance since I wasn't really looking for an iTunes replacement so much as a way to just dump files onto the player from within explorer like I could with my old cheapo player. Since you can't really do that, I don't mind going through iTunes to do it. I can transfer files & do the DB updates with MediaMonkey also, but I don't bother.

I can live with iTunes for the Podcast management but it's Media Monkey all the way for anything else.

I still haven't tried that iTunes "sync to any player" software I posted earlier in the thread. When I'm ready to buy a new player, I'm hoping to have something non Apple that can load, and keep sync'd, the podcasts from iTunes.

The Zen's are great and there's no reason to upgrade if you have one but as with everything else techy, a whole new generation of players will be available this holiday season.

I'd like to get something with a screen the size of the Zen Vison W that Fairweather has, with 16GB of Flash Ram so I can load up video podcasts as well as audio, a five or six ~800mb Divx/xvid movies, and still have several thousand songs on it. I don't want any more HD based portable players due to battery and size. I'd also like a player with a USB port that would accept thumb drives to add another 16GB expansion when needed or just an easy way to xfer stuff to it using the thumb drive when out and about. It's gotta have 4 hours video playback minimum. I'll have to wait at least until next year to get something with the PicoP built into it. The Picop projector only uses 1.5W of power so would be great for battery life while providing a 40" DVD quality wide screen. Unfortunately, the latest "rumors" are that one of Microvision's seekrit partners is Apple. Bah.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » June 22, 2007, 1:24 am

I agree about Media Monkey. It's what I use for organizing all of my music in Windows (I use Amarok in Linux). It's great for quickly organizing files in whatever your preferred directory structure / file name convention happens to be as well as doing mass updates to tags. I don't really use it for the music library functions, though, as I've still not kicked my years old attachment to winamp as my player (I don't use the library functions in that either). I just fire up the playlist or directory that I want to listen to when needed.

I bought my M 30 a while before the W's were available. I kind of wish that I had waited, but it's not a huge tragedy since I use it for audio far more than video. The main reason I wanted it was that it had a huge capacity at a reasonable price point, and when in the car, I prefer to have a huge chunk of my music collection with me so that I'm covered no matter what bizarre mood strikes me. The video capabilities were just a nice bonus, although I don't use that as much as I used to since I'm too lazy to convert video into smaller files, and I only have 2 GB left over after I dumped music onto it. I guess down the road, the player I'll want will be widescreen with a minimum of 30 GB of solid state storage (preferably 2 or 3 times that) and at least double the battery life. I'd prefer it to support bluetooth for headphones and for synchronization since wires now piss me off most of the time. Support for a thumbdrive would be alright, but it's not really a big deal for me. Speaking of which, don't the newer Visions act as a USB host so you can plug thumb drives into them (using an adapter for the mini USB connector)? I think I remember reading something about that somewhere. I know mine doesn't, but that's not an issue for me.

EDIT to answer my own question: The 60 GB Vision:M models act as a USB host, so you can connect USB devices to it with the included host adapter cable.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 22, 2007, 2:48 am

Xatrei wrote:I agree about Media Monkey. It's what I use for organizing all of my music in Windows (I use Amarok in Linux). It's great for quickly organizing files in whatever your preferred directory structure / file name convention happens to be as well as doing mass updates to tags. I don't really use it for the music library functions, though, as I've still not kicked my years old attachment to winamp as my player (I don't use the library functions in that either). I just fire up the playlist or directory that I want to listen to when needed.

...I'd prefer it to support bluetooth for headphones and for synchronization since wires now piss me off most of the time. Support for a thumbdrive would be alright, but it's not really a big deal for me.

Oh, forgot about bluetooth. Gotta have bluetooth headphone support. I love my Logitech Bluetooth headphones that I took shit for wearing in my car. (I went and got a regular car stereo again a week later but never told anyone...cuz fuck'em!, I'd rather have them thinking I'm cruising around with headphones still) They sound good (although I'm mostly listening to podcasts), great design, love the whole right side headphone being the volume Up/Down and mute, and are comfortable for me with the behind the back hard wire setup...I wore them for four hours straight on the way up to Vegas awhile back. The battery lasted that long as well with no cutouts except when I hit a McDonald's bathroom and left my headphones on just to see how far the range was! I was able to go into places like gas station convenience stores and still hear my iPod in the car, hooked up to the bluetooth transmitter, all which is small enough to fit in my pocket if I want, and have sometimes. Having no wire between your player and headphones is soooooo much better than the lame wires...I never could figure out why Apple actually emphasized the wires in their commercials. Wires sucketh.

media Monkey does a great job indexing your music collection. It's very fast both indexing and searching after indexing. When I want to listen to music, my typical pattern is using Copernic to find the song I'm looking for, then either opening the folder and selecting the group of songs I want, or just launching the song from Copernic and then after Media Monkey loads, use it's index and search features afterwards. (using EvilLyrics to display the song lyrics) I don't have my MP3's organized very well but I do have them all in one folder/subfolders to I can point Media Monkey to that and have it just index my MP3s with little hassle. Works great for all of those "top 1000" song lists I grab. It would take awhile to track down all the songs from a certain artist through all those lists but Copernic or Media Monkey makes it quick and easy. If I typed in "Human League" for example, there'd be songs from all over the place in my directories popping up that would be impractical to search directories for.

I'd like 32GB + of flash ram as well but I'm thinking 16GB is going to be tops for the next year or so with a reasonable price tag.

You can buy 16GB USB Thumb Drives from newegg between $134.00-159.00 so not too bad.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... &name=16GB

Seem to be a little slower atm than the smaller sizes though.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » June 22, 2007, 3:51 am

Yeah, I don't see giant capacity solid state media players being common for a while, but I don't plan to upgrade for another year at least unless my M flakes out prematurely. I'll probably go through a shuffle or two in that time since they're so easy to misplace, though

. With solid state laptop hard drive alternatives becoming available this year (at a hefty price tag), I'm hoping the price, capacity, power consumption and physical size will be in a tolerable range by the time I'm shopping for a new player. If not, a super sized 1.8" HDD will work too.

All of my music is indexed by Media Monkey, iTunes and Amarok, but I never take advantage of that functionality. I'm pretty anal about how I organize my music, so I never really need to search for anything as I know where to find it quickly. I tend to collect albums rather than individual tracks for the most part, and organize my music in this hierarchy: <artist name>/<year>_<album name>/<track number> - <track name>.mp3 with a folder including .m3u playlists for all albums by an artist, plus individual albums located at the artist level of my directory structure. For the occasional individual tracks, I store them at the artist level in a "Misc" subdirectory. I store soundtracks, multi-artist compilations and tribute albums in their own subdirectories as well. I have a top-level playlist folder where I keep all of my mixed artist / genre playlists. The first thing I do when I rip a new CD or download an album is to move it into my directory structure. I never have unorganized music files for more than a few minutes after ripping / downloading.

VeeshanVault

Creative Zen Vision M (iPod's Suck!)

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