Shooting at Virginia Tech - estimated 20+ dead

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Kilmoll the Sexy
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There is no reason for anyone on a campus to carry a firearm other than the campus police. I can't even believe you truly feel that way Kilmoll. You don't fight fire with fire, you fight it with water.
What is the water here? I am not sure I would be real comfortable knowing all the college kids had access to weapons....especially knowing they are drinking all the time. The faculty on the other hand.....why not?

Here is the thing this case shows so well....

VA Tech is a no guns campus. Zero...none. Illegal to carry concealed there and no guns even allowed by state law there. Did this guy abide by that? Ummm.....obviously not. Did the law prevent competent law abiding people from carrying there? Yes...because....and get ready for this shocker: Law abiding people follow the laws and the nutjobs and criminals really could care less about them.

So where were these campus police during this shooting? Did they protect anyone? As police officers will tell you, they are not there to protect anymore...they are there to investigate after the fact.

So someone tell me...enlighten me.....how do words in a book prevent someone from carrying out an attack like this? It was alreayd illegal to have a gun there.....so how did those "no guns" signs help keep those people safe?
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Post by Siji »

Stop using logic Kilmoll. There's no place for that here.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
So someone tell me...enlighten me.....how do words in a book prevent someone from carrying out an attack like this? It was alreayd illegal to have a gun there.....so how did those "no guns" signs help keep those people safe?
You can't. Stop trying to make sense of it. There has and will always be crazy people. Banning handguns won't stop that. All we can do is grow from an incident like this and try to recognize the signs of a pyschopath the best we can before they carry out a mass murder. His writings should have set something off. He was way off his rocker.
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Post by Neost »

His writings DID set something off. Apparently there were several things over the past couple of years.

Problem is, authorities only new individual pieces of it, nobody put all the incidents together to realize this guy was a ticking bomb.

I'm also uncertain as to why he was released from a mental institution and wonder why they missed how deeply fucking nuts this guy appears to have been.
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Post by Boogahz »

Neost wrote:I'm also uncertain as to why he was released from a mental institution and wonder why they missed how deeply fucking nuts this guy appears to have been.
We, as a society, have moved away from committing people to long-term care facilities for mental issues. Gone are the days of a weekend frontal lobotomy to enhance the mental stability of patients. He may have been put on a suicide watch by law enforcement previously, but this would not have had any requirements for follow up once he was determined to be "stable" and released.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Neost wrote:I'm also uncertain as to why he was released from a mental institution and wonder why they missed how deeply fucking nuts this guy appears to have been.

Agreed. I'd rather see some progress here than on gun control.
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Post by Xatrei »

This whole "if more people had guns, someone would/could have intervened" line of thinking is too simplistic. Of course if someone had a firearm and was so inclined, they may have been able to intervene and save some lives. However, there's no guarantee of such an outcome. This chance for "salvation by handgun" simply cannot be be considered in a vacuum. It must be weighed against the net effect of having significantly more guns in the equation. Arming young, impulsive college-aged students, I suspect, will not improve the overall safety of those on campus, no matter what you "BUT IT WORKS IN KENNESAW-FUCKING-GEORGIA" mouth-breathing idiots want to think. Furthermore, stricter comprehensive controls on access to and the private transfer of weapons may have had the potential to stop Cho from legally obtaining a firearm in the first place, which may or may not have prevented this tragedy - we'll never know. He may have been able to obtain one illegally, but again, we'll never know. Personally, I'd choose to err on the side of caution and at least have more roadblocks in the way of people arming themselves with weapons designed to maximize the ability to kill quickly and efficiently.
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Post by Boogahz »

If nothing else, it sounds like the ALERRT program is getting more attention from schools now. Maybe the additional training could stop something like this from being as deadly as it was if/when it happens again.
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Post by Fairweather Pure »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.
I think you should go stright to Virginia Tech and let those parents know what liberal pussies thier dead kids were.

You fucking mindless asshole.
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Post by Nick »

I half expect Kilmoll to be picketing the funerals of these dead students with a "GUNS HATES FAGS" sign.

What a fucking idiot.
Banning handguns won't stop that. All we can do is grow from an incident like this and try to recognize the signs of a pyschopath the best we can before they carry out a mass murder. His writings should have set something off. He was way off his rocker.
This is such bullshit. Banning handguns could and would lessen the amount of needless deaths. Even trying to deny this is just absolutely fucking stupid. "His writings should have set something off" - bullshit. Not everyone who writes like that is a psychotic murderer, should we just ban violence in books now too?

Great logic, ban violence in plays/books/poetry but keep guns legal. No wonder America's going down the fucking pan.
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Post by Arborealus »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.
Lol come stand in front of me while I shoot big man...We'll test your instincts m'kay...:)
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.
I think you should go stright to Virginia Tech and let those parents know what liberal pussies thier dead kids were.

You fucking mindless asshole.
their kids were being denied their rights to defend themselves by the liberal pussies you reading comprehension challenged idiot.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Arborealus wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.
Lol come stand in front of me while I shoot big man...We'll test your instincts m'kay...:)
That is fine. Don't be expecting me to just stand there without returning fire though skippy.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote: This is such bullshit. Banning handguns could and would lessen the amount of needless deaths. Even trying to deny this is just absolutely fucking stupid. "His writings should have set something off" - bullshit. Not everyone who writes like that is a psychotic murderer, should we just ban violence in books now too?
.
Don't overreact. This is what always happens. If you ban automobiles, you'd save a hell of a lot more lives than banning firearms. If you can sweets, you'd save even more. Chill a bit. Let the media and politicians do the grand standing and overreacting.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

People have just as much a right to own firearms as they should have to play ultra violent video games....listen to ultra violent rap music....watch ultra violent movies. It's not the products that kill people, it is the people. Banning products is not what we want. You cannot selectively decide which products it is okay to ban.
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Post by Winnow »

With 300 million people in the America, it should be expected that at least one person wigs out and commits a mass murder about once a year.

You're fooling yourselves if you think otherwise. If you want less freedom but less mass killings, go live in China or something.

Canada has its share of psychos as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C ... _murderers
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Post by Boogahz »

Winnow wrote:With 300 million people in the America, it should be expected that at least one person wigs out and commits a mass murder about once a year.

You're fooling yourselves if you think otherwise. If you want less freedom but less mass killings, go live in China or something.

Canada has its share of psychos as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C ... _murderers
:shock:
Ran into this after going through that link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to ... ng_a_sword
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Post by miir »

Winnow wrote:With 300 million people in the America, it should be expected that at least one person wigs out and commits a mass murder about once a year.

You're fooling yourselves if you think otherwise. If you want less freedom but less mass killings, go live in China or something.

Canada has its share of psychos as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C ... _murderers
All from quebec... weird.
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Post by miir »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:People have just as much a right to own firearms as they should have to play ultra violent video games....listen to ultra violent rap music....watch ultra violent movies. It's not the products that kill people, it is the people. Banning products is not what we want. You cannot selectively decide which products it is okay to ban.
I don't think I've ever heard of a person being killed by a rap song, violent movie or violent video game.
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Post by cadalano »

Ran into this after going through that link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to ... ng_a_sword
i read about that awhile ago - it actually seems downright humanitarian compared to other things that the Imperial Army and turncoat Chinese did in Nanking and elsewhere.

but its also apparently just a fabrication which is not hard to believe because the Imperial Japanese media at the time was probably the most effective propaganda system in history. They had thousands of Japanese civilians commiting mass suicides (jumping off cliffs while holding their children, etc) as the US advanced towards their towns, fearing they would be raped and pillaged as their media claimed
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Post by Hesten »

Hmm, im curious Kilmoll. You say that the student having guns would help. Just exactly how will it help?
First of all, were talking a huge campus, lots of people, lots of young students with all the problems that follow that. Im pretty sure its NOT a good idea to futher arm people in that age group, the risk of drunken arguments evolving into more violence than a normal fight are pretty bad if you decide to arm half the campus.

Even if we assume that every student there will not in any way even consider going after a gun in case of arguments/girlfriend/boyfriend trouble/drunked foolishness, what do you think would happen if you had even 20 people armed, within shooting range, AND peace of mind enough during the situation to actually react?
Ill tell you what you get. You get 20 people who will fire at the guy, from various directions. The chance of even half the students under a situation like that to all hit the guy is like none. Then you will have misfires going off in every direction, and depending on the area, causing a LOT more problems than the initial shooter.
In this case i doubt it would be that bad, since the guy as far as i read main were in buildings in hallways, but a guy doing this in a cafeteria (like it have been done before), or another crowded area, your "arming students for safety" idea will cause a LOT of damage, possibly more than the psychopath in the first place.
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Post by Hesten »

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:People have just as much a right to own firearms as they should have to play ultra violent video games....listen to ultra violent rap music....watch ultra violent movies. It's not the products that kill people, it is the people. Banning products is not what we want. You cannot selectively decide which products it is okay to ban.
I don't think I've ever heard of a person being killed by a rap song, violent movie or violent video game.
Havent you been listening to Jack Thompson miir? You know that only gamers and hitmen would shoot people in the face :)
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Post by Aslanna »


April 18, 2007

Bill Gates
Microsoft
1 Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052 Via Fax and e-mail


Dear Mr. Gates:

On Monday, April 16, at 3:10 pm, I was a guest, as I often have been in the past, on the Fox News Channel. News anchor Bill Hemmer asked me to profile the Virginia Tech rampage killer. I did so, noting that until that day the worst school massacre in world history was at the hands of Robert Steinhaeuser, who literally trained on the Microsoft on-line, hyper-violent shooter game, Counterstrike. I mentioned your company’s game by name. I explained that the rehearsal for such a massacre is key to being able to pull it off, as efficiently as Cho, whose name we didn’t even know at the time. Cho and Steinhaeuser were able to do what they did the first time because it was not the first time. This is why the military uses this same virtual reality simulation to train soldiers to want to kill and how to kill calmly, as the witnesses of Cho said he did.

Sure enough, last night I was doing a west coast radio interview when the host said to me, "Mr. Thompson, you are right. The Washington Post is reporting right now the following:

‘Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game published by Microsoft, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.’"

I thus went back on the Fox News Channel, and Bill Hemmer and I explained not only that I was right about your game figuring in the Virginia Tech massacre but also that the Washington Post excised the above excerpt from the story this morning. That is yet another story. The bad news for the Post however is that you can still get the excised excerpt at http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2007 ... id=topnews. Thus, the cat is out of the bag, and his paw prints are still on the bag. Is this a great Internet, or what?

As you know, I similalry [sic] went on NBC’s Today Show with the DC Beltway Sniper still unidentified and at-large a few years ago and told Matt Lauer and the nation that the triggerman would most likely be a teen video gamer trained on a sniper video game. The tarot card was a clue, but there were other clues. I was right, as Malvo trained on your Microsoft game, Halo. NBC reported that three months later, and it was part of the criminal trial of Malvo.

Mr. Gates, your company is potentially legally liable the harm done at Virginia Tech. Your game, a killing simulator, according to the news that used to be in the Post, trained him to enjoy killing and how to kill. You knew five years ago that your on-line game, Counterstrike, so clearly figured in the massacre by a student in Erfurt that the event and the game impacted the race for Chancellor in Germany at the time!

Yet, here you are, five years after "Erfurt," still marketing Counterstrike. having done nothing to disable the server(s) for this mass murder simulator, and it looks like "Virginia Tech" is a consequence. There’s more going on in the world than Vista. Just ask the bereaved Virginia Tech families.

Mr. Gates, pull the plug on Counterstrike today, or do we need more dead to convince you? "Virginia Tech" was the 9-11 of school shootings, and it appears Microsoft is in the middle of it, in more ways than one.


Regards, Jack Thompson
What a nutbag.
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Post by Arborealus »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.
Lol come stand in front of me while I shoot big man...We'll test your instincts m'kay...:)
That is fine. Don't be expecting me to just stand there without returning fire though skippy.
I wouldn't shoot you...see you are already scared...:)...What a pussy conservative...
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Post by Badabidi »

Those guns he bought made him kill those people and himself. Guns need to be immediately banned and anyone aside from authority need to relinquish their weapons or rot in prison
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Post by Boogahz »

Aslanna wrote:

...
I did so, noting that until that day the worst school massacre in world history was at the hands of Robert Steinhaeuser, who literally trained on the Microsoft on-line, hyper-violent shooter game, Counterstrike. I mentioned your company’s game by name.
...

Mr. Gates, your company is potentially legally liable the harm done at Virginia Tech. Your game, a killing simulator, according to the news that used to be in the Post, trained him to enjoy killing and how to kill. You knew five years ago that your on-line game, Counterstrike, so clearly figured in the massacre by a student in Erfurt that the event and the game impacted the race for Chancellor in Germany at the time!

Yet, here you are, five years after "Erfurt," still marketing Counterstrike. having done nothing to disable the server(s) for this mass murder simulator, and it looks like "Virginia Tech" is a consequence. There’s more going on in the world than Vista. Just ask the bereaved Virginia Tech families.

Mr. Gates, pull the plug on Counterstrike today, or do we need more dead to convince you? "Virginia Tech" was the 9-11 of school shootings, and it appears Microsoft is in the middle of it, in more ways than one.


Regards, Jack Thompson
What a nutbag.
Does he not realize that Microsoft did not create/make Counterstrike?
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Post by Boogahz »

Should we now blame the post office for allowing the shooter to mail these new documents to NBC in the two hours between shootings?
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Boogahz wrote:Should we now blame the post office for allowing the shooter to mail these new documents to NBC in the two hours between shootings?
lol
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Post by Sueven »

OK, time has passed and now I'm ready to talk political and social implications.

First: Even discussing Jack Thomson is pointless. The man has no credibility. He shouldn't even be on the table unless you're the kind of person who enjoys laughing at those on a lesser playing field than yourself. There's not a single person on this board who has any sympathy for him whatsoever, and there are not enough such people outside this board for him to have any sort of significant impact on policy or public attitudes.

Second: Gun control is getting way, way too much attention from this. Listen: Gun control or lack thereof had nothing to do with this situation. Having stricter gun laws would not have prevented this nutbag from getting ahold of them. Having folks carrying guns on campus may have led to him getting taken down earlier, but it's really not overly relevant. The issue is that SOMETHING made this dude snap. Talking about gun control is a straw man. We ought to be focusing on what made him snap, and what measures we can take to reduce the number of people who snap. Gun control is something that deserves discussion (for the record, I'm largely in the anti-gun control crowd, on Kilmoll's side, although I don't own a gun, have never fired one, and probably never will), but it is simply not the primary issue raised by this incident.
Midnyte wrote:People have just as much a right to own firearms as they should have to play ultra violent video games....listen to ultra violent rap music....watch ultra violent movies. It's not the products that kill people, it is the people. Banning products is not what we want. You cannot selectively decide which products it is okay to ban.
Midnyte's right: It's PEOPLE that we need to focus on.

So what was it that made this guy snap? Even before the shooter had been identified, I would have said: Isolation. I can't imagine someone doing this without being completely removed from general society. When you are in society, regardless of what perspective you're coming from, you experience certain fundamental experiences that generally have, and ought to, characterize all of us. These experiences are simple interactions with other people and groups of people. In order for people to act like decent human beings, we need empathy for others. Empathy is fostered by interaction. Interacting with others teaches us very basic and fundamental values of empathy, compassion, respect, and decency. This of course doesn't mean that people don't exploit one another, treat one another like shit, and so on-- it just means that we learn some measure of respect for the fact than we as people are fundamentally linked by the importance that we each place in our own existence. Interacting with others breaks down the barrier between "I" and "the other" and allows us to project ourselves onto others, which doesn't make us saints but can do an awful lot to prevent us from being devils.

The lesson that I draw from this is that it is of fundamental importance to engage loners in society. This doesn't mean that everyone needs to be a bubbly, exuberant extrovert-- I'm a pretty introverted guy, myself. It simply means that people can't give in to the temptation to take the easy way out and reject society altogether, and it's a fundamental human duty to help others resist that temptation when it becomes strong. There are lots of kids who feel (or are) rejected by their peers, cut off from social groups and so on-- and most of these kids eventually recover because they find a group that accepts them, they find a mentor to help them, they change their attitude to embrace who they are, whatever. I'm sure that most of us can identify with this kind of situation, simply because most people experience something like it at some point-- and let's face it, this message board is built on EverQuest, I'm sure most of us have overcome some kind of angst-with-society at one point or another in our lives.

When we see people who haven't yet gotten over their angst and learned to embrace being a human and being part of a society, it's inappropriate to simply react with disdain. We need to prove to them, by example, that society IS worth being a part of. They need to interact with other people. It doesn't matter what that interaction is, as long as they can learn to identify themselves as part of the society they're participating in.

The sort of person that we need to fear (and thus avoid the creation of) is the crazed loner who does not identify with anything outside himself, who feels that the rest of the world is fundamentally hostile and opposed to him. This is where the internet comes in: The internet makes it much, much easier for people to become the crazed loner. It's damn hard to sit in your house alone every day, rejecting the everyday hustle and bustle of society that goes on outside your walls, when you have nothing to do but watch TV and whack off all day. Given that situation, most people will eventually choose to go outside, make some friends, and learn to identify with the world at large a bit. The internet changes the equation. With the internet, the loner is suddenly far more stimulated. He has pornography to occupy his sex drive (and yes, I know you can whack it without porno, but internet porn makes it a hell of a lot easier, and the unlimited variety and quantity makes it much easier to turn your sexuality inward, quashing your desire to experience a healthy sexuality with others, and it's easy for your view of sexuality to turn into something based more on power, humiliation, and degradation than mutual pleasure and/or emotion). He has a constant and unlimited dose of the rampant cynicism and hate that the internet seems to produce so abundantly. He can even find communities of like-minded individuals who can reinforce his hatred and rejection of everybody and everything that is not him, without sparking the empathy and respect for others that tends to develop when one interacts with real people. And yes: He can play videogames to distract him during those long hours of avoiding society.

Do violent video games, music, and media have an effect? In my opinion: Yes, absolutely. They are part of the false, electronic identity that now constitutes an alternative to the society-based, humanistic identity that most people have. They provide an option to the person who is struggling with joining or rejecting society: "Come here," they whisper, "it's easier here." The crazed loner already is without sufficient empathy and respect for others, and it is more than possible to take messages of hatred and violence from such hateful and violent media. For those of us who actually go out and talk to people in real life, playing counterstrike isn't going to make us think that shooting people is appropriate. For most of us who don't go out and talk to people, playing counterstrike still isn't going to make us think that shooting people is appropriate. However, it seems to me to be totally plausible that for a very small minority of isolated and alienated people, playing counterstrike can be one among a number of factors that lead such people to embrace violence.

Consuming violent media does not cause you to become a violent person. Violent media can, however, enable some people in allowing their neurosis and alienation to transform into violent hatred.

Of course, the internet nerd is not the only type of crazed loner in the world. Ted Kaczynski was certainly quite different. I think a similar dynamic is also at work in the projects and ghettos of America-- many young people who grow up in a project never have an opportunity to experience society or community outside the walls of the project, consume plenty of violent imagery and speech, and so on. These people can also become isolated and alienated from general society, hateful of the world outside their project, inundated with violence, and can eventually lash out. This, like the internet nerd paradigm, is another mode of life that people can easily slip into in order to avoid having to confront being part of a greater society. We, as humans, need to do our best to reduce or eliminate the existence of such escapes, and, when people do slip into such modes of existence, we need to do our best to involve them in general society.
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Post by Nick »

Good post Sueven.

I do agree with the bulk of what you've written but I think you've put a bit too much onto media based elements and their degree of responsibility or "ability" to in some way justify to certain crazed minorities mindset (one that thinks killing lots of people is cool).

More than likely, interpersonal relationships will have played an infinitely larger part in this dudes decline than his ability to go on 4chan or some other similiar site.

(imo)
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Post by Sueven »

Thanks. I think we largely agree. To clarify, I think that media elements are important insofar as they provide an alternative to social interaction, or an excuse to avoid social interaction.

Once a person has become the isolated/alienated sort, he needs something to help him create a worldview, and the messages he takes from the media he consumes can come into play here, as inputs into his worldview. The same way that people understand sex via media portrayals until they actually experience sex, but on a much broader scale.

But the importance of media is absolutely subsidiary to the importance of interpersonal relationships. Interaction and involvement is the meta-issue.
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Post by noel »

Just got done watching some of the video/picture information. What a crazy motherfucker. He seriously needed to be removed from society. He's fucking nuts.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Great post Sueven, but you also need to take a step back and realize you cannot fix or prevent every tragedy. Some people will be born killers. Not every killer is born that way, just like not every killer was molded that way by society.
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Post by noel »

Really good post, Sueven. I agree with most if not all of it.

The one thing I'd add is that in the absence of a gun, this guy would have been taking a hammer to someone's head or a knife to someone's throat, or figuring out a way to blow up the building. Granted the body count would have been lower, but the act is in many ways the same. Once you've killed, you're a killer, doesn't matter how many. Killing only one innocent person is no better than killing 30. You just affect more of those that have to pick up the pieces when you kill more.
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Post by Nick »

After watching the various news shows tonight:

I love how literature has become the whipping post for all idiots after this particular incident over and above video games and Marilyn Manson. We have entered a whole new realm of stupidity.

By the tv's reckoning apparantly the vast majority of writers who have violent scenes in their writings are cold blooded multiple murderers. Mind boggling.

Why does every incident like this provoke the same sort of illogical reactionary bullshit?
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Post by kyoukan »

Neost wrote:I'm also uncertain as to why he was released from a mental institution and wonder why they missed how deeply fucking nuts this guy appears to have been.
Because the Bush administration cut back funding on mental institutions so severely that they cannot afford to keep anyone institutionalized unless they have already committed a crime. It is the same reason there are so many homeless in most cities now. They were kicked out of the mental hospitals they lived in.

This kid was obviously mentally ill and it was even recommended that he should be given intense therapy for his instability, but that kind of shit costs money that is better spent sending your lower economic class youths to Iraq to get blown up by pipe bombs. All the signs were there long before he erupted.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

kyoukan wrote:
Neost wrote:I'm also uncertain as to why he was released from a mental institution and wonder why they missed how deeply fucking nuts this guy appears to have been.
Because the Bush administration ........

ROFL
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Post by Nick »

I'm just watching this stuff he sent NBC....I don't even know where to begin......what an absolute fucking "IM TEH VICTIM" toolbag.

Jesus fucking christ.
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Post by kyoukan »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:ROFL
Oh I'm sorry. Do you have a different idea of what lawmakers in power after Bush was elected that may have cut 80% of the federal funding to state mental institutions?
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Post by Arborealus »

Nick wrote:After watching the various news shows tonight:

I love how literature has become the whipping post for all idiots after this particular incident over and above video games and Marilyn Manson. We have entered a whole new realm of stupidity.

By the tv's reckoning apparantly the vast majority of writers who have violent scenes in their writings are cold blooded multiple murderers. Mind boggling.

Why does every incident like this provoke the same sort of illogical reactionary bullshit?
Wow that would make the authors of the bible fucking fruitcakes...or if you are a literalist well that'd make god a serious psychopathic deviate...

I think the increasing insular nature of human existence is actually as much a symptom as cause at it's root. I actually, 15 years ago, was dealing a lot with Borderline Personality Disorder...Basically this disorder arises from overly repressive or permissive parenting. That said total lack of parenting is overly permissive.

Basically kids develop really weird conceptions of self-other boundaries. The become almost totally lacking in empathy because they fail to recognise that their actions affect others. They are very demanding and extremely intolerant of lack of instant gratification. Games especially some video games obviously can cater to these kids providing instant gratification.

Give these kids a videogame w/o instant gratification or one that is somewhat frustrating and watch them explode...They scream at the game smash controllers/keyboards etc.

These are latchkey kids whose parents work from 7 to 5 then come home too tired to spend time with their children. The when they try to assert their dominance over the child they react from anger and punish in excess. Often they feel guilty afterwards and give the child presents or forget the consequences they were using as punishment.

They demand respect from their kid because "they are the parent,' and of course they don't get it because they haven't earned it. Kids very badly need consistent, reasonable guidelines; love; reinforcement; and consistent consequences for misbehaviour. They also need good models of how to behave.

The problem is not games. The problem is not media. The problem is we are letting these things become the model for kids instead of parents. These are the only consistent reliable messages kids get...so they model off of them. Take away the games take away the TV and the kids will model off of something else.

We are by and large, as a society, not parenting these days. So whatever gets a child's attention consistently and is reliable wins. This kid in VA obviously had some exacerbating problems but they probably aren't as ssevere as you would like to think.

As I watch kids in my neighborhood and the kids of my friends playing I listen to their interactions and games. Last week or the week before I watched half a dozen kids from 5 to 9 years of age walking down the street playing a game they called drive-by.

I saw an 8 or 9 year old boy talking to my neighbor's 9 year old girl when he walked off he slapped two fingers in a V up to his mouth flickering his tongue at the base then flashed a call me gesture and walked off.

My neighbor's 12 year old daughter told me a couple days ago that her best friend also 12 had to go to the hospital last week to treat damage she received from having sex with 4 boys at the same time. She wasn't forced into the act, she apparently asked literally for them to engage in it.

I don't see much good parenting going on these days...:/. The reason the neighbor's daughter told me is because her mom gets home at 5:00 and starts drinking and she can't stand talking to her when she is drunk.

So...wanna know why kids are more and more fucked up these days...Its because three or so generations have been raised largely without parenting...And a child who isn't parented almost never is able to learn parenting skills, it is almost entirely a modeled behavior. A 12,13, 14 year old mother who never learned parenting skills...How much of a chance do you reckon her child will have?

So yeah we are basically as a society going to see more and more really fucked up kids doing more really fucked up things without some major social change...

Wanna know why I don't want kids...:)...

There is my $100 bucks an hour worth...and a large part of why I no longer do psychology professionally...People want their kids fixed, like they want there car fixed, they give you money you return the child fixed...They want instant gratification...sound familiar?
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Post by Nick »

FUCK OFF LIBERAL
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Great post Arb. Thank you.
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Post by Sueven »

Wow, Nick, Noel AND Midnyte liked my post. I'm proud.

And a good post to you as well, Arb. Got me thinking.
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Post by Nick »

Does anyone else find it disgusting that 150 innocent people were also killed in Iraq today but absolutely no one gives a fuck because 33 AMERICANS were killed yesterday?

(That troop surge sure sorted everything out!)
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote:Does anyone else find it disgusting that 150 innocent people were also killed in Iraq today but absolutely no one gives a fuck because 33 AMERICANS were killed?

(That troop surge sure sorted everything out!)
Unfortunately, we are desensitized to it. It has been going on every day for years now. Plus, people in Iraq care a lot and could give a fuck less about 33 Americans getting killed. Stop throwing blame all over and vilifying others. Every one cares more about things that happen in their own backyard, more than they do about things that happen 7000 miles away. Grow up a bit. Not to mention the 150 people died in a war torn country full of animals with little respect for life. It's not surprising anymore. It's expected. I would be more shocked if a week went by with no deaths and a concerted effort towards peace and a move toward acting like a civilized country were to take place.
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Post by noel »

Sueven wrote:Wow, Nick, Noel AND Midnyte liked my post. I'm proud.

And a good post to you as well, Arb. Got me thinking.
You're surprised *I* liked it? /boggle

If you can get Winnow and kyoukan to like it too, THEN I'll be impressed.
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Post by Sueven »

I'm just surprised that you agree with Nick and Midnyte on something.

Kyoukan likes things?
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Nick wrote:Does anyone else find it disgusting that 150 innocent people were also killed in Iraq today but absolutely no one gives a fuck because 33 AMERICANS were killed?

(That troop surge sure sorted everything out!)
Unfortunately, we are desensitized to it. It has been going on every day for years now. Plus, people in Iraq care a lot and could give a fuck less about 33 Americans getting killed. Stop throwing blame all over and vilifying others. Every one cares more about things that happen in their own backyard, more than they do about things that happen 7000 miles away. Grow up a bit. Not to mention the 150 people died in a war torn country full of animals with little respect for life. It's not surprising anymore. It's expected. I would be more shocked if a week went by with no deaths and a concerted effort towards peace and a move toward acting like a civilized country were to take place.
Oh come on Mid, he isn't going to skip any opportunity to say something negative about Bush, or pretty much anything to do with the U.S. period- just ignore him and let complete morons like him and Kyoukan strut up and down this forum spewing a million and 1 reasons that they are so smart and could *obviously* do a better job running a country they don't even live in. I mean shit if I had the answer to every issue presented like those two douchebags I would probably act the same way.
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Post by noel »

Nick wrote:Does anyone else find it disgusting that 150 innocent people were also killed in Iraq today but absolutely no one gives a fuck because 33 AMERICANS were killed yesterday?

(That troop surge sure sorted everything out!)
I'm going to go with... Because this thread is about the VA Tech shootings, not about the travesty that is Iraq.

It's fucking deplorable. I'll be very happy when our current leadership is out of office. I could go on for pages about how much I abhor the job their doing, and how it's perhaps one of our worst administrations of all time, but again this thread isn't about that.
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Post by Nick »

Funkmasterr wrote:Oh come on Mid, he isn't going to skip any opportunity to say something negative about Bush, or pretty much anything to do with the U.S. period- just ignore him and let complete morons like him and Kyoukan strut up and down this forum spewing a million and 1 reasons that they are so smart and could *obviously* do a better job running a country they don't even live in. I mean shit if I had the answer to every issue presented like those two douchebags I would probably act the same way.
You're joking right? Surely no one could be this retarded? Surely?

Shut the fuck up and push your bullshit agenda elsewhere you fucking idiot.

God forbid anyone bring up 150 innocent peoples deaths that didn't happen in the US OF AMEN, SURE ITS GOTTA JUST BE ABOUT A VENDETTA AGAINST GEORGE BUSH AND NOT JUST EQUAL COMPASSION SHARED BETWEEN TWO ACTS OF NEEDLESS AWFUL VIOLENT MURDER. The fact you defend Bush's actions like a permissive little small minded hick fuckwit is deplorable enough, but the fact you attempt (pathetically) to somehow claim the sarcastic intellectual highground is a (shitty) joke too far.

Shithead.

You are one serious little fuckhead of a human being Funkmaster, and you of all people on this board embarrass humanity above all measure.

I see you're enjoying being the new Cartalas of VV - Got any sexually violent insults you wish to throw out before finally shutting the fuck up? Don't be shy, you'd be letting us all down if you didn't. :roll:
Last edited by Nick on April 19, 2007, 1:47 am, edited 6 times in total.
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