Shooting at Virginia Tech - estimated 20+ dead

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 16, 2007, 1:44 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech. ... index.html

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 16, 2007, 1:45 pm

Disgusting. Very sad.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 16, 2007, 1:46 pm

I hope no one here is directly affected by this in any way.

WTF is wrong with people?

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 16, 2007, 1:53 pm

gunman on the loose still too? wow...

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 16, 2007, 2:07 pm

Nah, he's confirmed dead according to the campus police chief. They're now reporting 22 confirmed dead with more possible, and 28+ wounded. Some of the injuries were apparently sustained while trying to escape. Apparently two people jumped from a 4th floor window to escape the shooter.

The thing that doesn't make sense is that there were nearly 2 hours between incidents at two buildings across campus from each other (according to reports on MSNBC). I'm having a hard time understanding how the campus police can be aware of a shooting in one building and not lock down the campus until two hours later after the guy shot up coed dorm hall.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » April 16, 2007, 2:36 pm

Truly sad =( May the victims rest in peace and may the shooter rot in hell.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » April 16, 2007, 2:49 pm

I can't even imagine why someone would want to do this. Its mind boggling.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » April 16, 2007, 3:47 pm

Total is up to 31 now including the shooter...

Neost · Post by **Neost** » April 16, 2007, 3:53 pm

it sounds like someone placed a 911 call about someone falling out of bed and the campus police arrived to find shooting victims, like it was a diversionary call.

by the time it was circulated that there were shootings in the dorm, the shootings in the engineering building (norris hall?) were taking place.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » April 16, 2007, 6:04 pm

And Jack Thompson saw fit to go on Fox News and blame all of this on video games.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/ ... 252702.php

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 16, 2007, 6:15 pm

And Fox news saw fit to broadcast more worthless crap.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 16, 2007, 8:01 pm

Wow, that Jack Thompson sure is an opportunistic self serving piece of shit.

This is a really a horrible tragedy. I really do not understand why anyone would do this. At all.

Wtf?

Edit: http://www.godhatesamerica.com (Phelp's family are planning to picket the funerals of the deceased).

WHAT THE FUCK?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » April 16, 2007, 8:53 pm

I have a band director friend at Virginia Tech, Dr. Pat Casey. He told me earlier that it was complete mayhem on the campus and that because of miscommunications, the second shooting went off two hours later from the first, and that the university only sent out a notice about the first shooting about the same time the second was occuring. Just a horrible situation all around. When it comes down to it, these kids were killed while trying to learn. What a horrible, horrible reason to die. They were at college to advance themselves and grow up, and they were killed for it.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 16, 2007, 9:43 pm

Phelps and his clan of inbred jesus monkeys make me sick. I keep waiting for someone to take them out, but it never seems to work out that way. Last fall after a school bus accident in northern Alabama killed 4 students, Westboro Baptist Church (Phelps' organization) came to dump a little more shit into those poor family's lives by demonstrating at the funerals of the dead students. They'll take any opportunity to spread their sick bullshit - bus accidents, slain students, military funerals - it doesn't matter to them. Matthew Shepard's funeral was where they got started with this crap, and it never fails to make me angry when I hear about one of their stunts. People often try to screen them from view with vehicles or with throngs of people, over-sized flags, banners or signs. I just wish someone would pump a few hundred rounds of ammo into the shit bags, and be done with it.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 16, 2007, 11:09 pm

Enormously tragic. I live in Washington DC, and almost everybody I know from the area is affected in some indirect way-- friends who were shot, friends of friends who were shot, some sorority girl they took to a formal once, whatever. Awful.

I have no desire to sling hate or use the situation to argue any political point at this point, and no interest in those who do.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 16, 2007, 11:21 pm

It seems that the gunman was attempting to kill some form of girlfriend or ex girlfriend. I'm not sure if he managed it.

After going to her dorm he seemingly just started shooting indiscriminitately (sp?) in a different area of the College about 2 hours later.

It's all too sketchy right now to determine facts, but, if it was 2 hours later, how were the police not on top of the situation?

and did he kill the girlfriend (she was supposedly cheating on him? - not surprising, as he was obviously a fucking psycho).

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 16, 2007, 11:26 pm

Nick wrote:
It's all too sketchy right now to determine facts, but, if it was 2 hours later, how were the police not on top of the situation?

Well, if you've been following the story, and it appears you have been, you'd know they considered the dorm incident over and began working the case. They had no reason to believe a mass shooting spree was about to begin. There is no reason to start slinging blame all over. The blame lies in the asshole who stole lives away from 33 people.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 16, 2007, 11:41 pm

Yeah, he shot a female and a resident adviser at the dorms. After that, there was a two+ hour delay from that time to when they actually started locking down the campus, as or after the 2nd shootings began across campus. The official university explanation so far has been pretty much what Mid says above. On the surface, that explanation for the delay seems extraordinarily weak, but a lot more investigation needs to be done before jumping to conclusions regarding what breakdowns may or may not have occurred. This is such a freakish event that I don't think any campus in the country is adequately prepared for something like this. It's easy to feel that in this day and age, universities should be prepared for any kind of event like this, but in practice it's a nearly impossible to do. You can never fully plan for what to do when one determined psychotic goes loose. Hopefully some lessons can be taken away from this to better protect schools, but there's just no way to ever be 100% safe.

As for the comments about Phelps, it isn't arguing politics. Politics don't enter into the equation. It's just a simple lack of decency or compassion on the part of these lunatics. It's such a grotesque lack of basic humanity that I truly get enraged just thinking about it. Using this horrible tragedy (or any other tragic event) to spew their "god hates fags" bullshit is just inhuman, and they should be treated as such.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 17, 2007, 11:08 am

If your country didn't have such restrictive gun control laws, students, teachers and regular citizens could have armed themselves and prevented the situation from getting out of hand.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 11:13 am

Forgive me, I stayed up way too late and I'm still mostly asleep, but that's sarcasm, right?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 17, 2007, 11:13 am

Latest report I saw at http://www.statesman.com/news/content/s ... oting.html

Sorry if the formatting is off, posting as I get ready to leave for work.

Va. Tech: Gunman Student From S. Korea
By ADAM GELLER

AP National Writer

BLACKSBURG, Va. — A Virginia Tech senior from South Korea killed at least 30 people locked inside a classroom building in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, the university and police said Tuesday.

Ballistics tests also found that one of the guns used in that attack was also used in a shooting two hours earlier at a Virginia Tech dorm that left two people dead, Virginia State Police said.

Police identified the classroom shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department and lived in another dorm on campus. They said Cho committed suicide after the attacks, and there was no indication Tuesday of a possible motive.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the guns used in both shootings. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that link was yet definitive.

"There's no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we're exploring the possibility," he said.

Cho was a permanent legal resident of the United States, according to a Homeland Security Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

A memorial service was planned for the victims Tuesday afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend, the White House said. Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the 2 p.m. convocation.

The first deadly attack, at a dormitory around 7:15 a.m., left two people dead. But some students said they didn't get their first warning about a danger on campus until two hours later, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m. By then the second attack had begun.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they walked into Norris Hall for a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

The victims in Norris Hall were found in four different classrooms and a stairwell, Flaherty said. Cho was found dead in one of those classrooms, he said.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target — just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in — though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open ... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

A federal law enforcement official said Tuesday he had been told by other federal law enforcement officials that the two guns recovered in the shooting had had their serial numbers scraped off. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

The slayings left people of this once-peaceful mountain town and the university at its heart praying for the victims and struggling to find order in a tragedy of such unspeakable horror it defies reason.

"For Ryan and Emily and for those whose names we do not know," one woman pleaded in a church service Monday night.

Another mourner added: "For parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, 'Is my child safe?'"

That question promises to haunt Blacksburg long after Monday's attacks. Investigators offered no motive, and the gunman's name was not immediately released.

The shooting began about 7:15 a.m. on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston, a high-rise coed dormitory where two people died.

Police were still investigating around 9:15 a.m., when a gunman wielding two handguns and carrying multiple clips of ammunition stormed Norris Hall, a classroom building a half-mile away on the other side of the 2,600-acre campus.

At least 20 people were taken to hospitals after the second attack, some seriously injured. Many found themselves trapped after someone, apparently the shooter, chained and locked Norris Hall doors from the inside.

Students jumped from windows, and students and faculty carried away some of the wounded without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. A student used his cell-phone camera to record the sound of bullets echoing through a stone building.

Inside Norris, the attack began with a thunderous sound from Room 206 — "what sounded like an enormous hammer," said Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old junior who was in a solid mechanics lecture in a classroom next door.

Screams followed an instant later, and the banging continued. When students realized the sounds were gunshots, Calhoun said, he started flipping over desks to make hiding places. Others dashed to the windows of the second-floor classroom, kicking out the screens and jumping from the ledge of Room 204, he said.

"I must've been the eighth or ninth person who jumped, and I think I was the last," said Calhoun, of Waynesboro, Va. He landed in a bush and ran.

Calhoun said that the two students behind him were shot, but that he believed they survived. Just before he climbed out the window, Calhoun said, he turned to look at his professor, who had stayed behind, apparently to prevent the gunman from opening the door.

The instructor was killed, Calhoun said.

Erin Sheehan, who was in the German class near Calhoun's room, told the student newspaper, the Collegiate Times, that she was one of only four of about two dozen people in the class to walk out of the room. The rest were dead or wounded, she said.

She said the gunman "was just a normal-looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout-type outfit. He wore a tan button-up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

The gunman first shot the professor in the head and then fired on the class, another student, Trey Perkins, told The Washington Post. The gunman was about 19 years old and had a "very serious but very calm look on his face," he said.

"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."

At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.

"I'm not saying there's a gunman on the loose," Flinchum said. Ballistics tests will help explain what happened, he said.

Some students bitterly complained that the first e-mail warning arrived more than two hours after the first shots.

"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of the dorm.

University President Charles Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack and decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means to spread the word, but said that with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out.

He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

The 9:26 e-mail had few details: "A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating."

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Nine students remained hospitalized Tuesday at Montgomery Regional Hospital, all of them stable, CEO Scott Hill said. Two others had been transferred to other hospitals with a Level I trauma center.

Their families "are by the bedside, which is a good thing," Hill said.

Lewis-Gale Medical Center in Salem had three remaining patients, all in stable condition, with one expected to be discharged later Tuesday, Hill said.

The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks but that they had not determined whether they were linked to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of gunfire.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy was killed just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

Among the dead were professors Liviu Librescu and Kevin Granata, said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering, Puri wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Granata and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics. Puri called him one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

Also killed was Ryan Clark, a student from Martinez, Ga., who had several majors and carried a 4.0 grade-point average, said Vernon Collins, coroner in Columbia County, Ga.

His friend Gregory Walton, a 25-year-old who graduated last year, said he feared the nightmare had just begun.

"I knew when the number was so large that I would know at least one person on that list," said Walton, a banquet manager. "I don't want to look at that list. I don't want to.

"It's just, it's going to be horrible, and it's going to get worse before it gets better."

___

Associated Press Writers Justin Pope in Blacksburg and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 11:26 am

miir wrote:If your country didn't have such restrictive gun control laws, students, teachers and regular citizens could have armed themselves and prevented the situation from getting out of hand.

Shut the fuck up Miir. Maybe you could give it a rest until people have a chance to bury the dead?

Guess what: You can't predict one person going crazy and shooting more than 60 people in a single day. Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 17, 2007, 11:34 am

If you want a flame free thread, post it in general.

Guns aren't the problem. Stupid people are the problem.

Stupid people with guns.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 11:37 am

While I agree that it's too early to drag personal politics into a tragedy like this, it will invariably happen. In fact, it already has. Before sundown yesterday, a pro-gun lobbying group released a statement essentially saying what Miir alluded to, criticizing the Virginia state legislature for failing to pass a measure that would allow students and teachers to carry concealed weapons on campus. Gun control supporters didn't miss a beat either, attempting to gin up a fresh look at gun control laws, particularly the fact that the federal assault weapons ban was allowed to expire. I find such opportunistic politicking to be disgusting and disrespectful to the families and friends who are, as we speak, experiencing such profound tragedy in their lives. There's no doubt that an event like this will spur fresh discussion on the topic (which is a good thing), but we should at least let those who are close to the situation have this time to mourn their losses before bringing politics into the situation.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 11:38 am

Maybe you and Jack Thompson can do a fucking television show together.

You can blame guns, he can blame video games, I'm sure we can get someone to blame his parents, maybe a white supremecist to blame South Korea... Shut the fuck up.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 17, 2007, 11:39 am

Seriously...
Some of you guys make light of Americans killing Iraqi... Americans killing Canadians in Afghanistan... school shootings in Montreal.

Why should anyone really give a shit about a Americans killing each other in the US?

I mean it was only 31 people.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 11:40 am

I'm waiting for Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs to attack the immigration angle. Surely there was some issue with his residency status that has yet to surface.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 17, 2007, 11:45 am

Xatrei wrote:I'm waiting for Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs to attack the immigration angle. Surely there was some issue with his residency status that has yet to surface.

Lou Dobbs had a great commentary this morning about needing to focus more on the 1100 a year binge drinking deaths, 1400 a year rapes, etc going on in Universities accross the USA.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 11:45 am

miir wrote:Seriously...
Some of you guys make light of Americans killing Iraqi... Americans killing Canadians in Afghanistan... school shootings in Montreal.

Why should anyone really give a shit about a Americans killing each other in the US?

I mean it was only 31 people.

... and those of us who look at any such death, regardless of the victim's nationality or ethnicity or religious affiliation** as a tragedy are still sickened and saddened by senseless violence. It's almost as nauseating as the callous usage of a truly tragic event to try to score cheap political points in an unrelated argument.

** Except for Fred Phelps. His death, by any means, would be a cause for celebration.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » April 17, 2007, 11:47 am

Of course this thread will derail into a simple "guns vs. no guns" discussion. It should. This incident is a prime example why the topic needs to be examined and discussed in detail.

If the guy was only armed with a pocket knife, I think the death count would've been a bit lower. Maybe 2 or 3 tops? I also don't think he would've had the balls to kill himself with a knife to avoid getting caught. A bullet is a quick and easy way out.

Meanwhile, if everyone was armed with guns, I think there would be a shitload more (than the already disgustingly high) amount of deaths attributed to firearms per year in America. It's just too easy to shoot someone from a distance and walk away. (Or shoot while driving!)

My opinion is a very simple one. Guns are bad. They are designed to kill. Killing shouldn't be made faster and easier. Yeah, Yeah, hunting is different. But handguns and assualt weapons are nothing more than people killers. This latest incident is a grisly example that prooves my point.

Fuck the gun nuts. You are the last people that should be owning guns, but somehow you're the people hoarding them and defending the God given right to have them. Ironic.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 11:48 am

miir wrote:Seriously...
Some of you guys make light of Americans killing Iraqi... Americans killing Canadians in Afghanistan... school shootings in Montreal.

Do you mean the minority of posters with no fucking class? I'd tell them to shut the fuck up too. You I expect more of (except in the WoW forum). Don't lower yourself to their level.

For the record, I'm not against gun control. I'm just sick and tired of every event being used to forward some fucking political cause.

I'm also kind of shocked that this guy was able to kill 31 people and wound 26 others with a handgun. I automatically assumed it was an assault rifle when I heard the kill count. One of the ER surgeons was saying on CNN this morning that each body had at least 3 bullets in it. That HAS to be an exaggeration. A 9mm handgun at best will hold 14 rounds (I believe). So either this idiot was carrying around a TON of ammo or the ER surgeon was exaggerating.

Bottom line for me is that if someone... anyone snaps, there's not really much you can do about it. It's a fucking tragedy.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 11:54 am

miir wrote:school shootings in Montreal.

When has anyone here made light of school shootings anywhere? Seriously, I'd like to see that so I know who to have utter contempt for.

I personally don't agree with, and haven't made, comments celebrating the killing of anyone anywhere. Particularly not of innocent students sitting in a classroom who were murdered for absolutely no reason. To start talking shit about it, particularly before the bodies are even cold yet, is kind of a shitty thing to do in my opinion.

Nice troll though.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 17, 2007, 11:56 am

miir wrote:Seriously...
Some of you guys make light of Americans killing Iraqi... Americans killing Canadians in Afghanistan... school shootings in Montreal.

Why should anyone really give a shit about a Americans killing each other in the US?

I mean it was only 31 people.

What the fuck is wrong with you? I hope to god you are just trolling. How the fuck do you equate Iraqi's dieing in a war effort and Canadians dieing in a war effort to a psycho mass murderer goign off on innocent civilians? I've lost a lot of respect for you today. You're disgusting.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 12:03 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:Of course this thread will derail into a simple "guns vs. no guns" discussion. It should. This incident is a prime example why the topic needs to be examined and discussed in detail.

If the guy was only armed with a pocket knife, I think the death count would've been a bit lower. Maybe 2 or 3 tops? I also don't think he would've had the balls to kill himself with a knife to avoid getting caught. A bullet is a quick and easy way out.

Meanwhile, if everyone was armed with guns, I think there would be a shitload more (than the already disgustingly high) amount of deaths attributed to firearms per year in America. It's just too easy to shoot someone from a distance and walk away. (Or shoot while driving!)

My opinion is a very simple one. Guns are bad. They are designed to kill. Killing shouldn't be made faster and easier. Yeah, Yeah, hunting is different. But handguns and assualt weapons are nothing more than people killers. This latest incident is a grisly example that prooves my point.

Fuck the gun nuts. You are the last people that should be owning guns, but somehow you're the people hoarding them and defending the God given right to have them. Ironic.

And this is the thinking that just caused the largest mass killign in US history. That campus is a gun free zone. That dickhead purchased illegal guns...serial numbers filed off....and he is not even allowed to legally purchase a firearm. So you take one fuckhead that wants to kill people and he WILL find a way to get a gun......and you take them to a campus that no one is allowed to carry a gun and who is going to stop them?

Tell me now....WHO is going to stop an armed person on a campus where they know no one is allowed to have a firearm? All your arguments are compeltely worthless and this incident should be proving that to you. No law will EVER stop someone that wants to break it. No "No Guns" sign is going to stop someone from walking past it with a bag full of weapons.

You just don't get it..you simply cannot and will not EVER eliminate guns with the amount of available technology today. That is as stupid as saying you are going to eliminate drugs. Unless you are prepared to entirely give up ALL of your rights and freedoms this will nto happen.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 12:06 pm

Noel....reports said it was a Glock 9mm and a Walther .22 pistol. How this guy walked around the campus wearing a vest strapped with mags and no one reported this is almost mind boggling.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 17, 2007, 12:08 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Noel....reports said it was a Glock 9mm and a Walther .22 pistol. How this guy walked around the campus wearing a vest strapped with mags and no one reported this is almost mind boggling.

He was wearing a leather jacket over everything.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 12:16 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:And this is the thinking that just caused the largest mass killign in US history. That campus is a gun free zone. That dickhead purchased illegal guns...serial numbers filed off....and he is not even allowed to legally purchase a firearm. So you take one fuckhead that wants to kill people and he WILL find a way to get a gun......and you take them to a campus that no one is allowed to carry a gun and who is going to stop them?

the above article wrote:One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

I think he filed the serial numbers off himself.

If you couldn't buy handguns, this guy couldn't have inconspicuously gone from one building to another with concealed weapons and 30 or so more people would be alive at Va. Tech today.

I don't see any reason for handguns to even be for sale. If you want to hunt, get a shotgun. Better yet, get a muzzle loader or a bow. If they stopped selling handguns legally, they wouldn't be available for people to obtain illegally. At the very least they'd be much scarcer and more difficult to obtain.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 17, 2007, 12:22 pm

Sylvus wrote:
I don't see any reason for handguns to even be for sale. If you want to hunt, get a shotgun. Better yet, get a muzzle loader or a bow. If they stopped selling handguns legally, they wouldn't be available for people to obtain illegally. At the very least they'd be much scarcer and more difficult to obtain.

I've always felt similarly. Unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » April 17, 2007, 12:25 pm

The bottom feeders come out of the cracks in every situation, it seems. Take your filth somewhere else, Miir. 95% of us don't make light of Iraqi deaths, so have a little compassion. Those people have fucking families that aren't going to get a cell phone call telling them they're alright. They aren't going to drive down and have their sons and daughters waiting for them outside of their dorm room. All they get to do is rifle through their stuff and decide what they'll keep so they can have the room emptied in a few weeks.
What happens to some people that they lose their ability to feel empathy for other human beings? It's a sick situation, and it deserves a debate. A debate about guns, a debate about our society and what drives these poor souls to commit wantom murder. What it doesn't need are fucksticks telling us "it was only 31 people". If one of those people had been your family or a close friend, you wouldn't be saying that. So cut the macho-"cutting-down-on-overpopulation, tee-hee" bullshit and take your garbage somewhere else. We can have a discussion about the incident without pointless trolling.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 12:26 pm

Resident aliens are not legally allowed to purchase and receive guns. They can purchase them for export, but are not ermitted to take possession of them here.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » April 17, 2007, 12:27 pm

After the shooting, a spokeswoman for Bush was quoted as saying, "The President believes in the right to bear arms, but he believes that it should be done legally." Like an hour after the shooting. It was pathetic. He was already trying to establish a political position out of a situation that only needed compassion and patience in trying to figure out what happened. It made me sick.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 17, 2007, 12:29 pm

Sylvus wrote:If they stopped selling handguns legally, they wouldn't be available for people to obtain illegally. At the very least they'd be much scarcer and more difficult to obtain.

If they weren't available legally, they would ALL be available illegally.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2007, 12:30 pm

People freak out once in awhile.

I'm interested in what the "disturbing note" he may have written in between the two shootings had to say.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 12:32 pm

Even logistically, killing that many people with two handguns with magazine changes and whatnot. How no one was able to stop him is mind boggling to me.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 12:34 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Resident aliens are not legally allowed to purchase and receive guns. They can purchase them for export, but are not ermitted to take possession of them here.

But he had a receipt for the gun, so that means that he probably still bought it at a gun retailer. I don't know the whole status of his residency, nor do I know all the rules on legally purchasing guns if you're a resident alien, but I do know that if you buy contraband out of the trunk of a guy's car you don't get a receipt.

He obviously didn't think he was going to get away with it, going on a rampage like he did, so I don't think arming every student and faculty member on campus would have prevented this. It might have cut down on the number of people that ended up being killed, but people were still going to die. The only thing that would have outright prevented this is if he didn't have guns, and the only thing that would have made that happen is if there weren't so many guns available.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 12:38 pm

I cannot even fathom your argument. It is not like they ran a bluelight special on handguns because someone over-ordered an extra billion that just had to go! If someone wants to get one, they can do it by either buying it from a retailer or going through someone shadier. ....you are not going to stop them by not having as many in stock. Whoever sold it to him is going to be in a world of shit though.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 12:39 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Sylvus wrote:If they stopped selling handguns legally, they wouldn't be available for people to obtain illegally. At the very least they'd be much scarcer and more difficult to obtain.

If they weren't available legally, they would ALL be available illegally.

Reread that with the word "entirely" instead of "legally". The only reason they are available illegally is because they are manufactured and sold legally. I don't think you'd see handgun factories springing up in peoples basements like they were crystal meth labs. It's hard to turn your bathtub into a foundry.

I'm all for not having handguns be available for anything other than military or law enforcement use.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 17, 2007, 12:39 pm

Lawful permanent residents can buy handguns in most states. The kid that shot up the mall in Utah also had a legally purchased handgun and shotgun.

Just doing my job as a person that knows everything by correcting you.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 12:49 pm

A resident alien on a school permit does not qualify to legally purchase a gun.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 12:50 pm

Police identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. Cho was living on campus in Harper Residence Hall.

...

Cho had lived legally in the United States with his parents for 14 years, a U.S. immigration official said on Tuesday. He moved to the United States in September 1992 and lived in Centreville, Va., said Chris Bentley, a spokesman with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

If he was here for 14 years, he probably figured out how to get around that.