Gogo Michigan

[Nick]

At what point did "You have your opinion and I'll have mine" become an accepted post to make on fucking flamevault of all places.

Sure, go and do it in pm's, but if you aren't even going to debate fundamentals this place is utterly useless.

[Cartalas]

You head is shoved up Kyoukans ass so far that when you blink she cums.

Worst insult ever as it barely makes sense. Although if it did I guess you could apply it to you when it comes to defending Midnyte.

Insult? why is that an insult? Its the truth now fuck off!!

[Leonaerd]

... the whippersnappers might someday unravel if only they spend 10 years delivering pizza and being intolerant of other cultures

Irregardless of the argument at hand, that was funny.

[Cartalas]

... the whippersnappers might someday unravel if only they spend 10 years delivering pizza and being intolerant of other cultures

Irregardless of the argument at hand, that was funny.

Or work at a 7-11 for 15 years and be intolrant to other cultures.

Praise Allah

[Kylere]

You head is shoved up Kyoukans ass so far that when you blink she cums.

I would argue this to be untrue, if she got off that often, she would be a much nicer person.

[Cartalas]

You head is shoved up Kyoukans ass so far that when you blink she cums.

I would argue this to be untrue, if she got off that often, she would be a much nicer person.

I am sorry you are right!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

At what point did "You have your opinion and I'll have mine" become an accepted post to make on fucking flamevault of all places.

Sure, go and do it in pm's, but if you aren't even going to debate fundamentals this place is utterly useless.

You're right. This place is no longer for me. It causes me too much suffering. Be well everyone. I do mean every one. I wish you all the best.

[Leonaerd]

At what point did "You have your opinion and I'll have mine" become an accepted post to make on fucking flamevault of all places.

Sure, go and do it in pm's, but if you aren't even going to debate fundamentals this place is utterly useless.

You're right. This place is no longer for me. It causes me too much suffering. Be well everyone. I do mean every one. I wish you all the best.

Liar.

[Aslanna]

Is it April 1st or did Christmas really come early to VV?

[Kylere]

Thank the heavens for Metanis, otherwise you fuckers would start thinking I was right wing again.

[kyoukan]

This thread started off well, but like most things that Kyoukan and Midnyte touch, it quickly turned into a pile of shit.

I was arguing the merits of this proposed legislation. I provided examples as to why such a shitty blanket policy wouldn't work. What did you do to contribute to the thread?

If by starting off well, you mean a bunch of right wing rich kids such as yourself going 'yeah man fuck those junkies on welfare.' then yeah, I'm sorry I ruined your MENSA gathering.

[Cartalas]

This thread started off well, but like most things that Kyoukan and Midnyte touch, it quickly turned into a pile of shit.

I was arguing the merits of this proposed legislation. I provided examples as to why such a shitty blanket policy wouldn't work. What did you do to contribute to the thread?

If by starting off well, you mean a bunch of right wing rich kids such as yourself going 'yeah man fuck those junkies on welfare.' then yeah, I'm sorry I ruined your MENSA gathering.

????? WTF what examples did you provide? Here is a list of your post in this thread and what you contributed. From what I see its nothing but a few one liners and insults.

Here is a list of your contribution:

“So if mom smokes a joint, her kids don't get any food or clothes?”


“That's a fucking brilliant declaration. However she already has kids.”


“in what way is that going to cost the state less money?”

oh yeah raising a child as a ward of the state is a lot cheaper than welfare. ”


"loser parent"? I think you fit that bill like a fucking glove.There is no doubt in my mind that a bunch of minimum wage day nurses could raise your fucking stupid kids better than you could.

the only thing worse than a patronizing jackass is a patronizing jackass who is actually inferior to just about everyone else on the planet

[kyoukan]

That's fantastic. Here's a list of your contributions to every thread in the history of this messageboard:

[Kylere]

When I get a job, they do a drug test. So far in 6 civilian firms only one has not wanted it. Therefore people who are applying for welfare should also have to do this, why apply differing standards to people?

Actually it is wrong that the system allows any drug testing, if your employee sucks, fire them. If they do not suck then keep them. I could care less what the guy in the next office does at home at night, as long as he does his job during the day. BUT it is an accepted part of making a paycheck today that you may have to give hair or urine samples to your employer. When the employer is the Government that should not change.

So my position is that until it be comes illegal for private firms to do preemployment testing, then people should have to do the same testing when they apply for welfare. That would be fair and equitable.

Of course it also makes sense, so I am sure that the Kooks and Midnites will hate it.

[Ashur]

Actually it is wrong that the system allows any drug testing, if your employee sucks, fire them. If they do not suck then keep them. I could care less what the guy in the next office does at home at night, as long as he does his job during the day.

Actually I believe drug screening is conducted by many employers as a risk mitigation effort. You, as a coworker, may not care if employee Joe Blow uses cocaine at night and is sober when he comes to work and performs to standard or even above standard, but it is a risk nonetheless.

This is the same reason that the military will remove or deny security clearances for such reasons as excessive debt. It may have nothing to do with your job, but it is a factor that you more vulnerable as an employee and is thus a risk.

[Zaelath]

At what point did "You have your opinion and I'll have mine" become an accepted post to make on fucking flamevault of all places.

Sure, go and do it in pm's, but if you aren't even going to debate fundamentals this place is utterly useless.

You're right. This place is no longer for me. It causes me too much suffering. Be well everyone. I do mean every one. I wish you all the best.

Even the fags, muslims and mexicans?

[Cartalas]

That's fantastic. Here's a list of your contributions to every thread in the history of this messageboard:

Well thats a tad bit more then you.

[Lynks]

You're right. This place is no longer for me. It causes me too much suffering. Be well everyone. I do mean every one. I wish you all the best.

Not the first time you say this so we will all see you in a couple of months where I'm sure you will be back to your old ignorant self.

[Kylere]

Actually it is wrong that the system allows any drug testing, if your employee sucks, fire them. If they do not suck then keep them. I could care less what the guy in the next office does at home at night, as long as he does his job during the day.

Actually I believe drug screening is conducted by many employers as a risk mitigation effort. You, as a coworker, may not care if employee Joe Blow uses cocaine at night and is sober when he comes to work and performs to standard or even above standard, but it is a risk nonetheless.

This is the same reason that the military will remove or deny security clearances for such reasons as excessive debt. It may have nothing to do with your job, but it is a factor that you more vulnerable as an employee and is thus a risk.

Agreed with their reasons, same as when it was serving and had near weekly urine tests, I was in a career field requiring what the military calls the personnel reliability program. Things such as maritial status/debts/alcohol intake were all considered because they could cause a person to be (in theory) more easily compromised. So I understand the logic, but I do not think Home Depot (example used because they have noticible testing signs at our local stores) should need it for the girl who waters the plants. At that point it becomes invasive.

But private firms legally test, no reason we cannot set the same standards for those being given tax dollars. It is not unreasonable (based on current laws), and most employment will require it.

I will change my stance the second private firms have some restrictions placed on them.

[Ashur]

But private firms legally test, no reason we cannot set the same standards for those being given tax dollars. It is not unreasonable (based on current laws), and most employment will require it.

I will change my stance the second private firms have some restrictions placed on them.

I think there is a difference. One is to support an employee to employer contract that includes in many cases employment at will, while the other is to support an entitlement (government assistance).

I understand the goal of trying to stop tax dollars to go towards the purchase of illicit drugs, but I hope the program is actually administered by rational thinkers who won't throw the baby out with the bathwater (as in the case Kyou mentioned where light use might deny necessary clothing/food to children).

Maybe it's more and Michigan is looking for any excuse to ditch people from the assistance. I can't say. It's hard to tell if it's more progressive (using it as a further incentive to get people to quit drug use) or regressive (cost cutting measure that will be implemented broadly without any look at circumstances, although anything open to case worker interpetation is also open to abuse and threat of lawsuits).

[Kylere]

Ashur,

Michigan is an entitlement state in mentality, hell we have the largest welfare in the world the UAW, aka Us Ain't Working pushing their agenda more than any other state in the country. Welfare is always more political than actual assistance IMHO based on growing up poor in Michigan.

But all that aside, I cannot see a reason this is any different than starting a job. When you collect assistance from the state you should be expected to do your best to get off of it in the future, no jobs in this area are hiring without drug tests that do not involve stripping, waiting tables or being a short order cook. People who need employment also need to be able to pass a drug test.

I see people falling back on the same old, protect the children speech. But paying their parent/s to stay home and stay high is not accomplishing that goal. Just make drug testing a requiremnt for assistance, and be done with it. If drugs are more important to them than their own kids to the point they decline to do this, there are other avenues. But to be honest, I highly doubt it will ever happen, due to cost and the fact that the welfare system overall in Michigan makes the Bush administration look brilliant by comparison.

The real question comes down to one thing, will we offer them cessation assistance (NA, AA etc) and give them a chance to come clean before we cut off aid, and are the results confidential or released to law enforcement.

It is in no way unreasonable to demand drug tests in return for money, as long as people do not fear the first hot test, and are given assistance to get over their addiction (even though for pot that is dumb, because pot is not addictive) if they cannot follow the basic social contract required then the SMART choice would be placing their children with someone else. If they have no children? No excuses.

But with that said, lets talk about methodology, urine tests are a joke for almost anything except pot, and hair tests are expensive as hell, and what level is considered hot for each drugs, what about false positives etc.

It is a big ugly ball of wax, but if we set reasonable standards, protect privcacy, assist those in need etc and do it by spending the same or the less than we do now, I think it could be a win win!

But my state has a Canadian governor who has yet to deliver on a single campaign promise, an ineffectual legislature and a guy that makes Rush Limbaugh look balanced running against her ( He is THE Scamway dude) so I am willing to bet nothing at all will come of this and we have all wasted our time discussing it.

[Aslanna]

He made it a whole 24 days this time!

[Sylvus]

Actually, I think you missed his first post back a week or so ago.

/edit: In fact, it was only 7 days. And then scattered posts after that.

[vn_Tanc]

You head is shoved up Kyoukans ass so far that when you blink she cums.

Says the guy who only ever posts to hurl barbs* at Kyo.

She raised a valid point: If you take away a mother's welfare for smoking joints what happens to her children?
You don't need to have had children to ask or answer this question. Nor do you need to be an arbitrary age. I didn't have my first child til I was 36 - do I get to speak?
So stop flinging retarded shit around and answer the lady's perfectly sensible question. Either that or please, for the love of all that is good in this world, shut the hell up with your retarded fucking bullshit.

* These barbs are approximately as sharp as a beachball but hey.[/quote]