Eddie Guerrero passes away

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » November 17, 2005, 10:14 am

Zaelath wrote:
No see, "professional wrestlers" are forced to do drugs to achieve the requisite physique to be successful in their jobs, musicians are just pot smoking hippies.

Which is quite obviously horseshit. A high percentage of the most popular wrestlers of all time never had anything remotely resembling the steroid physique. And musicians are cocaine snorting, heroin shooting junkies rather than pot smoking hippies. Care to take a look at how many acts have lost a member due to heroin? I would bet you that more musicians died from heroin over the last 20 years than the entire list of wrestlers who have died from ANY cause.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 17, 2005, 10:35 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Which is quite obviously horseshit.

No! Really?!

miir · Post by **miir** » November 17, 2005, 10:53 am

You really did not want to go this route in defending your argument. How about Jim Belushi, Chris Farley, River Phoenix, Elvis Presley, Judy Garland, Dana Plato, Lenny Bruce, Freddie Prinze...and I am sure we can come up with a whole lot more.

Hmmm, I highly doubt Chris Farley, Elvis or any of the others were heavily into steroids.

A high percentage of the most popular wrestlers of all time never had anything remotely resembling the steroid physique

What exactly is a 'steroid physique'?
Steroid use in pro wrestling was rampant in the 90s.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 17, 2005, 11:42 am

Well are you asking died from either one or died from taking both combined?

miir · Post by **miir** » November 17, 2005, 11:54 am

Sionistic wrote:Well are you asking died from either one or died from taking both combined?

Conjunction junction, what's your function....

Please don't tell me I have to explain the difference between the conjunctions and and or.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 17, 2005, 12:11 pm

It's pretty obvious that professional wrestlers are pressured to maintain a certain physique. Weather the pressure comes from their peers, their employers or themselves isn't the point.

The travel and work schedule the 'A-list' wrestlers have, I imagine would be pretty fucking stressful, both physically and mentally. Some of these guys are on the road for 11 months of the year. Falling into the trap of steroids, painkillers, various other over-the-counter drugs and alcohol would probably be pretty easy.

I can't think of any other form of sports or entertainment that demands so much of their performers/athletes.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » November 17, 2005, 4:03 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: Which is quite obviously horseshit. A high percentage of the most popular wrestlers of all time never had anything remotely resembling the steroid physique.

And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

And musicians are cocaine snorting, heroin shooting junkies rather than pot smoking hippies.

Right. And? The hypocritical comparison was a guy who was fucking shot and no sympathy was given due to a nickname obviously acquired from some kind of pot usage yet another one deserves it even though he directly caused his own demise. There's nothing more hypocritical than that, and all of the puke choking in the world can't change it.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 18, 2005, 1:07 am

I asked because I wasnt sure if you were really asking such a stupid question. No actor would take steroids because they feel good. They wouldnt even take them to bulk up for a movie because if they need to bulk up, they have months of time to do it.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » November 18, 2005, 10:13 am

Chidoro wrote: And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids. I am sure that many of them do use steroids. However, many of the most popular wrestlers of all time had bodies that looked like they belonged in a bowling alley.

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » November 18, 2005, 11:48 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Chidoro wrote: And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids. I am sure that many of them do use steroids. However, many of the most popular wrestlers of all time had bodies that looked like they belonged in a bowling alley.

Heh...when I was a kid, the champion was Bob Backlund...looked like a midwestern bowler for sure!

miir · Post by **miir** » November 18, 2005, 12:40 pm

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids

Obviously not all of them use/abuse steriods, it would be ridiculous to make such an assertion... Nowhere did I claim that all of them do/did. I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that I'm implying that all or even the majority of wrestlers use steroids.

Also, take a look at Eddie... he certainly didn't have the physique commonly associated with steroid freaks but steroids most certainly played a part in his death.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 18, 2005, 7:13 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Chidoro wrote: And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids. I am sure that many of them do use steroids. However, many of the most popular wrestlers of all time had bodies that looked like they belonged in a bowling alley.

Well, the most popular wrestler of all time had a body that was quite obviously a result of steroids. There hasn't been a guy in the WWF in like 15 years who wasn't a gimmick "fat guy" or some guy with some form of gigantism that made him 7'5" and 500 lbs that didn't use steroids.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · November 18, 2005, 7:26 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Chidoro wrote: And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids. I am sure that many of them do use steroids. However, many of the most popular wrestlers of all time had bodies that looked like they belonged in a bowling alley.
Well, the most popular wrestler of all time had a body that was quite obviously a result of steroids. There hasn't been a guy in the WWF in like 15 years who wasn't a gimmick "fat guy" or some guy with some form of gigantism that made him 7'5" and 500 lbs that didn't use steroids.

In your "know it all", "what I say must be the truth" narrow opinion. Those of use who have followed wrestling from the days of George the Animal Steele and Hogan all the way to now, know differently. But, you are Sylvus....a know-it-all pompass who yells louder and brings up the same ole things over and over to discredit posters who disagree with you, so you must be right.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 18, 2005, 8:09 pm

You're trying to say that Hulk Hogan never used steroids?

And how is anything that I have said in this post the same thing that I've said somewhere else? Are you just grasping at straws and coming up short or are you actually that clueless that you think there is a grain of truth in anything that you said and you don't realize that most everyone here thinks you're a halfwit?

A couple people earlier implied that you were missing the point when you answered our accusations of you being a hypocrite with your assessment that "Dimebag" was morally inferior to this Eddie Guerrero fellow. I'm going to spell it out for you now. None of us were making a moral judgement on who was the worse person. I (and I'm not sure if I speak for anyone else) don't think that either of them, or anyone else for that matter, is a "bad" person because they may or may not have used drugs. We were just trying to point out to you, in the hopes that you might realize it and change, that when you say one person deserves their fate because of something they've done and another person who has done the same thing deserves sympathy, that makes you a hypocrite.

Broadness of my opinion aside (and I do find that a laughable claim on your part, I'm quite open-minded; I won't presume to judge either of these guys who I've never spoken with based on a personal choice they've made), the shoe fits, and you're a hypocrite. I'm not saying it because we "disagree" as you say. In fact, you aren't even presenting an opinion for me to disagree with, though you would be correct in assuming that I do find you a generally disagreeable person. I'm saying it because it's the truth. I defy you to find ANYONE (disregarding whatever troglodytic mouth-breathing labotomy that you tricked into signing a marriage license, of course) who disagrees with this assessment of you. It's not going to happen.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 18, 2005, 8:25 pm

I'm not sure The Rock used juice, as he was pretty damn built coming out of UM.

But the rest are all juicers, no doubt in my mind. Those kind of freaky peaks are simply not possible, no matter how fucking much you work out.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 18, 2005, 11:32 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Chidoro wrote: And so that means it wasn't used? Yeah, offense lines don't exactly have whatever you're claiming a steroid physique is therefore it's not used by your thinking?

Actually, Miir is asserting that all pro wrestlers are required to maintain a certain physique which would point all of them to steroids. I am sure that many of them do use steroids. However, many of the most popular wrestlers of all time had bodies that looked like they belonged in a bowling alley.
Well, the most popular wrestler of all time had a body that was quite obviously a result of steroids. There hasn't been a guy in the WWF in like 15 years who wasn't a gimmick "fat guy" or some guy with some form of gigantism that made him 7'5" and 500 lbs that didn't use steroids.

The Rock, Stone Cold, Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Kurt Angle, the Undertaker, Bradshaw, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, etc... Kind of unsure on Triple H, the guy looked like he did coming off his quad surgery for a few months but that was it, so who knows. Guess there goes that theory about everyone who isn't locked in a "fat guy" gimmick or a giant on steroids. Most of the guys who juice aren't mainstream or worth a damn like Hogan, him and the mentally challenged Ultimate Warrior were some of the few, sorry

Post by **Sylvus** » November 19, 2005, 2:33 am

You don't know with certainty that anyone on your list has never used steroids, the same that I don't know with certainty that anyone on the list has. But come on, Triple H? Kurt Angle? Brock Lesnar? Sure John Cena isn't the biggest guy around, but it's quite possible he has juiced. I'm not familiar with some of the other guys on your list, though Ric Flair is like 80 years old and Undertaker fits in one of my gimmick wrestlers (though he's not quite 7'5"). So, the only ones I'm not immediately suspicious of on your list are Chris Benoit and Bret Hart.

The fact remains that Vince McMahon has used steroids. He has been indicted (though acquitted) of attempt to distribute steroids. My assertion is that steroid use has been prevalent in professional wrestling for a long time, are you disputing that?

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 19, 2005, 4:24 am

Sylvus wrote:You don't know with certainty that anyone on your list has never used steroids, the same that I don't know with certainty that anyone on the list has. But come on, Triple H? Kurt Angle? Brock Lesnar? Sure John Cena isn't the biggest guy around, but it's quite possible he has juiced. I'm not familiar with some of the other guys on your list, though Ric Flair is like 80 years old and Undertaker fits in one of my gimmick wrestlers (though he's not quite 7'5"). So, the only ones I'm not immediately suspicious of on your list are Chris Benoit and Bret Hart.

I leaned more towards him using them when he was coming off his quad surgery, there was a reason he wasn't listed with the others. Kurt Angle? He's an olympic gold medalist? I take it drug use was never checked in the Olympics, because he's no bigger today than then? I'm sure Tyler Hamilton would be able to reinforce that statement

John Cena's a bodybuilder, it's what he did before he started wrestling. Brock Lesnar was an ameurature wrester, and a damn good one at that, I suppose that he was juicing like crazy back in highschool and the like too, kind of like Kurt Angle in the Olympics. Sorry for bringing up Ric Flair too, he's only one of the more active wrestlers currently at 80 years old, not to mention he has a belt.

Sylvus wrote:The fact remains that Vince McMahon has used steroids. He has been indicted (though acquitted) of attempt to distribute steroids. My assertion is that steroid use has been prevalent in professional wrestling for a long time, are you disputing that?

He juiced pretty hard, especially when him and Austin had that long going fued. I remember that my last post stated most of the guys who juiced weren't mainstream like Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior, I guess basically because they suck(ed). If you take that as a dispute to taking steroids in wrestling so be it.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 20, 2005, 7:17 am

Badabidi wrote:
Sylvus wrote:You don't know with certainty that anyone on your list has never used steroids, the same that I don't know with certainty that anyone on the list has. But come on, Triple H? Kurt Angle? Brock Lesnar? Sure John Cena isn't the biggest guy around, but it's quite possible he has juiced. I'm not familiar with some of the other guys on your list, though Ric Flair is like 80 years old and Undertaker fits in one of my gimmick wrestlers (though he's not quite 7'5"). So, the only ones I'm not immediately suspicious of on your list are Chris Benoit and Bret Hart.
I leaned more towards him using them when he was coming off his quad surgery, there was a reason he wasn't listed with the others. Kurt Angle? He's an olympic gold medalist? I take it drug use was never checked in the Olympics, because he's no bigger today than then? I'm sure Tyler Hamilton would be able to reinforce that statement

John Cena's a bodybuilder, it's what he did before he started wrestling. Brock Lesnar was an ameurature wrester, and a damn good one at that, I suppose that he was juicing like crazy back in highschool and the like too, kind of like Kurt Angle in the Olympics. Sorry for bringing up Ric Flair too, he's only one of the more active wrestlers currently at 80 years old, not to mention he has a belt.

Sylvus wrote:The fact remains that Vince McMahon has used steroids. He has been indicted (though acquitted) of attempt to distribute steroids. My assertion is that steroid use has been prevalent in professional wrestling for a long time, are you disputing that?
He juiced pretty hard, especially when him and Austin had that long going fued. I remember that my last post stated most of the guys who juiced weren't mainstream like Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior, I guess basically because they suck(ed). If you take that as a dispute to taking steroids in wrestling so be it.

Kurt Angle is an Olympic gold medalist, and I am sure that he worked his ass off and was tested regularly when he was going that route. I also feel like, from the pictures I've seen, that he is/was way more cut in the WWE/F than he was when he was wrestling in the Olympics. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that if a guy whose life is basically training 24/7 leaves the amature (tested) world and becomes a pro wrestler, and at the same time bulks up and cuts fat more than he ever has in his whole life, there's a decent chance that he's doing something different, perhaps something that wasn't kosher when being in the Olympics. There are a lot of different kinds of steroids, some bulk you up, some trim you down, all of them are steroids.

But you still didn't address my question; are you disputing my claim that steroid use in professional wrestling has been prevalent in professional wrestling for some time?

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 1:06 am

Sylvus wrote:
Kurt Angle is an Olympic gold medalist, and I am sure that he worked his ass off and was tested regularly when he was going that route. I also feel like, from the pictures I've seen, that he is/was way more cut in the WWE/F than he was when he was wrestling in the Olympics. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that if a guy whose life is basically training 24/7 leaves the amature (tested) world and becomes a pro wrestler, and at the same time bulks up and cuts fat more than he ever has in his whole life, there's a decent chance that he's doing something different, perhaps something that wasn't kosher when being in the Olympics. There are a lot of different kinds of steroids, some bulk you up, some trim you down, all of them are steroids.

Glad to see it doesn't take much to question Angle's integrity, I'm sure steroids are what helped him win the medal when his neck was broken. Steroids probably also helped him with that chairshot he took a few years ago that smashed one of the discs in his neck and made it worse. Oh, guess not. He probably should've juiced more so his shoulders would've fused with his head to prevent that.

Sylvus wrote: But you still didn't address my question; are you disputing my claim that steroid use in professional wrestling has been prevalent in professional wrestling for some time?

Badabidi wrote: Most of the guys who juice aren't mainstream or worth a damn like Hogan, him and the mentally challenged Ultimate Warrior were some of the few, sorry

I don't know, I only said this in my initial reply, referenced it to my next... You said every wrestler in the past 15 years is on steroids unless they're a gimmick wrestler or a giant. I merely disputed that "fact" and pointed out that most of the juicers are garbage. Please point out where that denies that steroid use in professional wrestling isn't practiced or happening even now

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 1:19 am

Oh yes, for comedic value, this is kurt angle for anyone who doesn't know who the hell he is

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » November 21, 2005, 2:42 am

Badabidi wrote:Oh yes, for comedic value, this is kurt angle for anyone who doesn't know who the hell he is

Umm..that's Scott Steiner...

This is Kurt Angle

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 21, 2005, 3:00 am

lol, nice San Fran camo.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 21, 2005, 4:41 am

the picture is even from a section named scott steiner, how'de you mix that up?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 21, 2005, 5:35 am

kurt angle is a legit tough guy who has probably never done steroids. my dad knows him, actually.

a lot of wrestlers in your list have done steroids. in fact I'd say benoit, brett hart and the rock are the only three that haven't. and I am not even so sure of brett hart. I've seen steve austin up close and let me tell you, that guy has more acne on him than an entire junior prom. brock landers practically secretes raw anabolic steroids out of his pores. I come from a pretty fitness-centric family and I've been working out in a gym since I was 14. I know a juicer when I see one.

steroid abuse is/was rampant in the WWF. vince mcmahon 'encourages' all his new talent to juice up because the rednecks want to see walking blocks of muscle in the ring (numerous attempts to bring in cruiserweight wrestlers with actual ability have been catastrophic failures for him). white trash likes to watch muscular guys throw each other around, and cars go around in a circle.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 21, 2005, 12:19 pm

TNA wrestling, albeit having horrible promos and writting,(I still cant listen to the alpha male without cringing) does have an impressive cruiserweight division going. If WWE just had TNA's choreography they would have a much better show.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 12:31 pm

My post with Steiner's image was pure sarcasm related to who I was replying to, since I kind of realized it's pointless to argue about who uses steroids when sylvus doesn't even know half of those guys. Anyway I'm glad to see you've shown your ignorance with your racist stereotypes (what a suprise) Kyoukan. Please erase anymore lingering doubts about how full of shit you are, I'm quite interested in hearing all about the rednecks/white trash in places like Japan and Europe as well.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » November 21, 2005, 1:00 pm

Raging Roid Users here...and some of the best ever.

Could run this list all day long. Sure, there are roid abusers in professional wrestling. But, not as many as there used to be. I would fully expect there to be poilcy changes handed down in the near future given recent events.

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » November 21, 2005, 1:23 pm

True that. No one ever accused Mick Foley of steroid use. And that guy put on some of the most hardcore matches ever. I've seen him go through some horrifyingly scary stuff in the ring..off the top of cages...losing teeth right through his lips...losing most of his ear on barbed wire in Japan.

I am convinced that after a nuclear holocaust the only three things that will be left alive are cockroaches, Keith Richards and Mick Foley.

The Hardys do some pretty amazing things too. I would much rather watch them than watch Brock Lesnar F5 some guy over and over.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » November 21, 2005, 1:29 pm

Badabidi wrote:rednecks/white trash in places like Japan and Europe

You don't think they have them? Same shit, different smell is all. They don't call them rednecks, but the mullet is universal.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 21, 2005, 1:31 pm

I'm not talking completely out of my ass about people I've never heard of; the only people I wasn't familiar with on your list were Bradshaw and John Cena. And once I googled Cena I realized who he was. While I haven't watched a lot of wrestling since its huge popularity in my youth, I've seen enough of it to be familiar with probably 80% of the current people. Just having seen them, coupled with the current climate of drug use in professional sports (see: any piece of news that wasn't about the war or the hurricanes this year) leads me to believe that your estimates of who is using performance-enhancing drugs might be a little low. My exaggeration of everyone using drugs was just that, but I would have assumed that it would be clear to any reader that I wasn't actually claiming that 100% of them are on drugs. Hence the later use of the word prevalent.

Hulk Hogan has admitted to using steroids from 1976 to 1989. He has estimated that 80% of the WWF was also using steroids when he was using them. Has anyone seen any evidence of the WWF/E trying to clean itself up since then?

I could write a list of at least 15 or 20 wrestlers who have all died unnaturally young, with steroids or another drug being the main suspect in the cause, but as I keep searching for names, I keep finding more. I'd encourage you to read some of the articles.

USA Today wrote:Yet their deaths underscore the troubling fact that despite some attempts to clean up an industry sold on size, stamina and theatrics, wrestlers die young at a staggering rate. Since 1997, about 1,000 wrestlers 45 and younger have worked on pro wrestling circuits worldwide, wrestling officials estimate.

USA TODAY's examination of medical documents, autopsies and police reports, along with interviews with family members and news accounts, shows that at least 65 wrestlers died in that time, 25 from heart attacks or other coronary problems — an extraordinarily high rate for people that young, medical officials say. Many had enlarged hearts.

And that's just the DEATHS...

Fifteen current and former wrestlers interviewed by USA TODAY say they willingly bulked up on anabolic steroids, which they call "juice," to look the part and took pain pills so they could perform four to five nights a week despite injuries. Some admit to use of human-growth hormones, a muscle-building compound even more powerful and dangerous than steroids. And many say they used recreational drugs.

This is a reprint of a column from the NY Post

Hulk Hogan's comments that I referenced earlier

Hell, google it. [google]wwf steroids[/google]

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » November 21, 2005, 1:33 pm

I wasn't aware people were allowed to watch or even speak of professional wrestling beyond the age of 14.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » November 21, 2005, 2:21 pm

The following was posted on WWE.com:

In a joint meeting today with the RAW and SmackDown rosters in the United Kingdom, in Sheffield, Vince McMahon announced that within the next several weeks, a new drug testing policy will be implemented in which performance enhancing drugs, such as steroids, etc., recreational drugs, as well as abuse of prescription drugs will be banned.

In addition to the new drug testing procedure, there will also be an emphasis on cardiovascular examinations.

The specifics of the drug policy will be announced over the next several weeks. More details to follow. Check with WWE.com for the latest information.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 21, 2005, 2:42 pm

It's about time.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 21, 2005, 2:51 pm

Farrel wrote:the company may have recently implemented stricter regulations in regards to drug-use

Well, judging from that press release, it looks like the WWE may not have had any sort of regulations regarding drug use.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » November 21, 2005, 3:33 pm

In other news, half the WWE roster retires.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 3:59 pm

miir wrote: Well, judging from that press release, it looks like the WWE may not have had any sort of regulations regarding drug use.

They did, Vince almost lost his company back in 1993 thanks to the steroid trials, he might like to stir up controversy but I doubt he wants to go back to court for a second round of that shit

Lynks wrote:In other news, half the WWE roster retires.

Thank god, those guys sucked anyway

Sylvus wrote:I'm not talking completely out of my ass about people I've never heard of; the only people I wasn't familiar with on your list were Bradshaw and John Cena. And once I googled Cena I realized who he was. While I haven't watched a lot of wrestling since its huge popularity in my youth, I've seen enough of it to be familiar with probably 80% of the current people. Just having seen them, coupled with the current climate of drug use in professional sports (see: any piece of news that wasn't about the war or the hurricanes this year) leads me to believe that your estimates of who is using performance-enhancing drugs might be a little low. My exaggeration of everyone using drugs was just that, but I would have assumed that it would be clear to any reader that I wasn't actually claiming that 100% of them are on drugs. Hence the later use of the word prevalent.

Hulk Hogan has admitted to using steroids from 1976 to 1989. He has estimated that 80% of the WWF was also using steroids when he was using them. Has anyone seen any evidence of the WWF/E trying to clean itself up since then?

I could write a list of at least 15 or 20 wrestlers who have all died unnaturally young, with steroids or another drug being the main suspect in the cause, but as I keep searching for names, I keep finding more. I'd encourage you to read some of the articles.

You didn't even know who John Cena is and you're going to backpeddle on your stupid assumption that everyone in the WWF from the past 15 years was on steroids? Oh yeah, I know what prevalent means, you've obviously been unable to pick that up in my posts.

Anyway, you can believe the Hulkster if you want, the guy has a tendancy to drag everyone down as long as it keeps his ego ontop. I liked him while he wrestled, but I don't like the actual person himself. I'm sure if you watched how him and Shawn Michaels handled their situation before he departed again you'd know that, but I'm wagering you don't have a clue.

Finally, Eddie Guerrero's the most recent death to have steroids play a part in it no doubt. People like him, British Bulldog, Rick Rude, Road Warrior Hawk, etc. (no doubt soon to be Scott Steiner too) have died from them. I don't need to look up shit on google that I already know about, I'm glad to see your ability to name drop people who you have no clue about is still going strong though. Reminds me of Kurt Angle using steroids, hah I still can't get over that, hahahahha.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 21, 2005, 4:00 pm

Rellix wrote:I wasn't aware people were allowed to watch or even speak of professional wrestling beyond the age of 14.

I don't judge people that enjoy watching 'Professional' wrestling, but I'm not able to comprehend adults that enjoy watching it. It made sense as a kid, but as I grew older, the dialogue, storylines and personalities were so juvenile that it held my interest less and less every time I saw it.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » November 21, 2005, 4:03 pm

eh, it's a soap opera for men. Why do so many grown women enjoy watching Days of Our Lives or other dribble? I enjoy watching it more for the athleticism than the cheesy story lines.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 21, 2005, 4:15 pm

WWF is something the U.S. should be exporting to other countries like cigarettes, not actually watching it themselves.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 21, 2005, 4:44 pm

Badabidi wrote:You didn't even know who John Cena is and you're going to backpeddle on your stupid assumption that everyone in the WWF from the past 15 years was on steroids? Oh yeah, I know what prevalent means, you've obviously been unable to pick that up in my posts.

Well, it means "common" and you obviously don't seem to think that it is very common. When 6.5% of the professional wrestling community under the age of 45 has died in the last 10 years, I'd say something is wrong. And that's completely disregarding those wrestlers that didn't die and have used performance enhancing drugs.

I'm not just listening to Hulk Hogan, I've cited several references. But I suppose that since I didn't recognize John Cena until I saw a picture of him, everything that I've said or referenced is probably completely fabricated. You are right, I didn't see how Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels handled whatever situation it was, that probably negates Hulk's estimates of his peers juicing which was further backed up by admissions from "Rowdy" Roddy, Ultimate Warrior, Jesse Ventura, Vince McMahon and the host of people that died young from that era. Hulk's comments were also made in 1994 or 1995, so were they foreshadowing for what was to come with him and Shawn Michaels or did they come after it and I missed that story arc or does it not fucking matter because only a complete asshole doesn't look at the WWE roster and see a large number of people juicing.

You also don't seem to have anything to go on but your belief that your lists of people haven't used steroids. I believe that many of them have, and have provided some evidence that it's pretty common in the sport. Sure, most of the anecdotal evidence isn't about the current cream of the crop, but most of the admissions of guilt seem to come after one has left the sport as to not tarnish the reputations of those people who are still working.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say in your posts, other than trying to "discredit" me by pointing out that I'm apparently not a hardcore wrestling fan. Save your breath, I'll be the first to admit it. I haven't really watched other than in passing for over 10 years, and I'm not trying to claim that I have. But if you honestly believe that the use of steroids/HGH/etc. is not very widespread in the WWE, you're being very naive. Shit, look at the balco scandal and the number of people in baseball (and other sports) who were caught or admitted to using drugs once baseball started testing. And that's fucking baseball.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 21, 2005, 4:55 pm

Sorry Sylvus, your opinions and facts are all null and void because you didn't know who John Cena is.

Only those who know who John Cena is have valid and credible info and opinions on drug and steroid use in professional wrestling.

All those you mentioned ("Hulk" Hogan, "Rowdy" Roddy, Ultimate Warrior, Jesse Ventura, Vince McMahon) probably had no idea who John Cena was at the time they made those comments so they can also be summarily dismissed.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 8:37 pm

miir wrote:Sorry Sylvus, your opinions and facts are all null and void because you didn't know who John Cena is.

Only those who know who John Cena is have valid and credible info and opinions on drug and steroid use in professional wrestling.

All those you mentioned ("Hulk" Hogan, "Rowdy" Roddy, Ultimate Warrior, Jesse Ventura, Vince McMahon) probably had no idea who John Cena was at the time they made those comments so they can also be summarily dismissed.

Cena's been the main star in the WWE for the past two years pretty much. I'd consider that a big deal in regards to knowing the talent currently in the WWE but since neither him nor you watch it that's probably irrelevent.

I think I've also covered bases on Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior (who's credibility is nonexistant, but I'm sure his mental state can be disregarded since he took steroids during his WWF tenure

). Piper and Hogan are the few who have really stayed active in wrestling for the last 15 years besides Flair, Piper probably the least of all of them. That'll teach me a lesson I guess, when the use of steroids back in the 1980s and early 1990s was high that obviously means it's been like that till 2005 (almost 2006) with a possible decline in sight now. Another piece of evidence would be Jesse Ventura more than likely giving the entire roster drug tests whenever they came to Minnisota during the time he was governor and having every result come out positive

And who cited Kurt Angle was a roid user again and held onto the conviction until it was blatantly obvious that he didn't, Sylvus? Who didn't know who John Cena was? Who's tossed off the Undertaker as a gimmick wrestler to discredit my point when there are quite a few people around his size in height and weight (Test, Kane, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Bradshaw, etc.)? Who made the stupidass statement about everyone in the WWE using steroids for the last 15 years? I'm sure your hit and miss assumptions mean absolutely nothing though, just like how you admit you haven't followed wrestling in a good decade or so yet make blanket statements on the WWE off of 5 minutes of reading google. Jesus I better not challenge your credibility again, sir. I probably should've quit replying to you when I said I would earlier, I definitally know better now and I'd like to thank you for teaching me a thing or two. Next time I see news and information like this first hand I will be sure to disbelieve it no matter what it is.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 21, 2005, 9:42 pm

Badabidi wrote:My post with Steiner's image was pure sarcasm related to who I was replying to, since I kind of realized it's pointless to argue about who uses steroids when sylvus doesn't even know half of those guys. Anyway I'm glad to see you've shown your ignorance with your racist stereotypes (what a suprise) Kyoukan. Please erase anymore lingering doubts about how full of shit you are, I'm quite interested in hearing all about the rednecks/white trash in places like Japan and Europe as well.

what the hell does japan and europe have to do with anything

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 21, 2005, 10:20 pm

kyoukan wrote: what the hell does japan and europe have to do with anything

I don't know, I was hoping you'd tell me since Vince encourages everyone to bulk up on steroids to cater to the rednecks and white trash. I figure just staying in America and Canada would cover that spectrum, but good overseas marketing says otherwise

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » November 21, 2005, 10:29 pm

Umm Big Time Pro Wrestling was the coolest shit ever!

Then I hit puberty.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 22, 2005, 1:12 am

Winnow wrote:WWF is something the U.S. should be exporting to other countries like cigarettes, not actually watching it themselves.

WWE is the most watched sport show outside of the US

Post by **Sylvus** » November 22, 2005, 1:58 am

Badabidi wrote:I think I've also covered bases on Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior (who's credibility is nonexistant, but I'm sure his mental state can be disregarded since he took steroids during his WWF tenure ). Piper and Hogan are the few who have really stayed active in wrestling for the last 15 years besides Flair, Piper probably the least of all of them. That'll teach me a lesson I guess, when the use of steroids back in the 1980s and early 1990s was high that obviously means it's been like that till 2005 (almost 2006) with a possible decline in sight now. Another piece of evidence would be Jesse Ventura more than likely giving the entire roster drug tests whenever they came to Minnisota during the time he was governor and having every result come out positive

So that's your attempt to discredit my "research". Fair enough, I now see where you stand. You watch a lot of WWE, haven't heard any reports on RAW about any of them doing steroids, none of them are. I'm not even sure what angle you were going for on the Jesse Ventura line; was that satire? Parody? Gibberish?

And who cited Kurt Angle was a roid user again and held onto the conviction until it was blatantly obvious that he didn't, Sylvus? Who didn't know who John Cena was? Who's tossed off the Undertaker as a gimmick wrestler to discredit my point when there are quite a few people around his size in height and weight (Test, Kane, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Bradshaw, etc.)? Who made the stupidass statement about everyone in the WWE using steroids for the last 15 years? I'm sure your hit and miss assumptions mean absolutely nothing though, just like how you admit you haven't followed wrestling in a good decade or so yet make blanket statements on the WWE off of 5 minutes of reading google. Jesus I better not challenge your credibility again, sir. I probably should've quit replying to you when I said I would earlier, I definitally know better now and I'd like to thank you for teaching me a thing or two. Next time I see news and information like this first hand I will be sure to disbelieve it no matter what it is.

Nowhere is it blatantly obvious that Kurt Angle hasn't used steroids, saying it doesn't make it true. All that you said was that he was in the Olympics (go back and give that section of my post another go, you might just realize that I said he was probably clean in the Olympics) and that he'd gotten some injuries. Not only does that not prove anything, it's often the case that someone using steroids can be more susceptible to injury or it is often the case that an athlete might be more likely to turn to performance-enhancing drugs when coming off of an injury. I'm not saying that either of those things are the case with Kurt Angle, I'm just saying that his body has looked different enough in his professional career that it wouldn't surprise me.

You obviously didn't understand the "gimmick" fat guy or gigantism line either. Perhaps it wasn't clear, but Undertaker, Kane, Kevin Nash are exactly the guys I was talking about. Guys whose thing is being naturally a giant, rather than someone who might have had a normal to big physique and pushed it over into the personified muscle group category with the help of drugs.

It was a nice attempt at a humorous sarcastic reply, though I don't think it achieved the goal you were going for to make me look like I'm full of shit. What do I know though? If my facts are no match for your opinions, I don't even want to test my opinions vs. yours.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 22, 2005, 2:25 am

Morgrym wrote:eh, it's a soap opera for men. Why do so many grown women enjoy watching Days of Our Lives or other dribble? I enjoy watching it more for the athleticism than the cheesy story lines.

The NFL is a soap opera for men. As is Major League Baseball. As are several other actual television shows like Lost, The Office, E-ring, The Shield, and many others I can't think of right this second.

Saying WWE is a soap opera for men is giving the writing entirely too much credit. WWE appeals to the absolute lowest common denominator of intelligence. That is to say, no intelligence is required to watch it.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 22, 2005, 2:31 am

Sionistic wrote:
Winnow wrote:WWF is something the U.S. should be exporting to other countries like cigarettes, not actually watching it themselves.
WWE is the most watched sport show outside of the US

Bullshit.

Also, Badabidi, shut the fuck up and go learn to spell Minnesota. Your posts are so fucking poorly written I can't even discern a logical point.

The bottom line is:
1. A percentage of wrestlers use steroids/HGH/pain killers.
2. A percentage of those wrestlers die due to the complications from the use of steroids/HGH/painkillers.
3. Vince McMahon, and those making money off of the WWE don't give a shit.