Do you own a firearm?

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » June 23, 2005, 3:02 pm

Lynks wrote:Ill bring up a point tenny made. How often do break-ins happen while you're home?

I think I heard of one case in my life where that actually happened.

It happened to my wife while we were still engaged. The intruder entered her bedroom and when she said "What the hell..." he saw her and ran. It could have been much much worse if his intentions were beyond simple theft.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » June 23, 2005, 3:15 pm

My cousin and his wife had a break-in and robbery, and they were both beaten pretty bad. His wife almost lost her baby becuase of it (was 6 months in).

Not as rare as you would think.

Tinkin Tankem · Post by **Tinkin Tankem** » June 23, 2005, 3:54 pm

Yes (3), Conservative

Wonko Wenusberg · Post by **Wonko Wenusberg** » June 23, 2005, 7:09 pm

A haubitz hidden in the woods.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 24, 2005, 4:42 am

I can understand Neost wanting a gun.

I can't understand the mindset of the person that attacked Neost with a gun.

So Noel was essentially right, guns aren't to blame, people are. Still hate guns^^

Having said that, a "tool" used for killing isn't the same as a hammer which is a "tool" for putting nails into wood.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » June 24, 2005, 8:21 am

No, no party affiliation.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » June 24, 2005, 10:36 am

Nick wrote:I can understand Neost wanting a gun.

I can't understand the mindset of the person that attacked Neost with a gun.

So Noel was essentially right, guns aren't to blame, people are. Still hate guns^^

Having said that, a "tool" used for killing isn't the same as a hammer which is a "tool" for putting nails into wood.

Hand Guns + Idiots are to blame. Hand guns are made for one purpose only to kill humans. They are easily concealed, readily available in the USA and if someone has the time to contrast the usa murder rate vs countries that prohibit or severely restrict ownership I think you would find a much lower murder rate.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » June 24, 2005, 2:34 pm

two
common sense

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » June 24, 2005, 2:52 pm

Atokal wrote:
Nick wrote:I can understand Neost wanting a gun.

I can't understand the mindset of the person that attacked Neost with a gun.

So Noel was essentially right, guns aren't to blame, people are. Still hate guns^^

Having said that, a "tool" used for killing isn't the same as a hammer which is a "tool" for putting nails into wood.
Hand Guns + Idiots are to blame. Hand guns are made for one purpose only to kill humans. They are easily concealed, readily available in the USA and if someone has the time to contrast the usa murder rate vs countries that prohibit or severely restrict ownership I think you would find a much lower murder rate.

Completely disagree with you Toker - take a look at the SWISS murder and high crime rates.... extremely low. They have one of the least restrictive laws (barely any at all) in the world when it comes to hand guns.

To the other extreme - look at Mexico - extremely high crime / murder rates - but one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.

We could go back and forth for hours giving examples of this country or that country where gun ownership does or does not coincide with high murder / crime rates - but I think if you do extensive research you will see there is almost no correlation between the two.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 24, 2005, 2:59 pm

more important correlation is not causation.

meaning because there is high incidence of correlation between A and B, that does not mean A causes B.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » June 24, 2005, 3:05 pm

Agreed. The two are certainly related, but one is not the direct result of the other.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » June 24, 2005, 3:48 pm

Niffoni wrote:Agreed. The two are certainly related, but one is not the direct result of the other.

Exactly.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 27, 2005, 9:30 am

no, a little bit from both sides i guess.

you put a gun in your home and the chance a friend or family member getting injured or dead is greatly increased.

Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?

No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house. Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense; 22 times more likely, according to a 1998 study by the Journal of Trauma.More kids, teenagers and adult family members are dying from firearms in their own home than criminal intruders. When someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes. You may be surprised to know that, in 1999, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, there were only 154 justifiable homicides committed by private citizens with a firearm compared with a total of 8,259 firearm murders in the United States.

Keeping a Gun in the Home Can Be Deadly

Because handguns and other firearms are so easily accessible to many children, adolescents and other family members in their homes, the risk of gun violence in the home increases dramatically. Consider this: The risk of homicide in the home is three times greater in households with guns. The risk of suicide is five times greater in households with guns. What's more, tragic stories of accidental or unintentional shootings from the careless storage of guns at home are all too common. The statistic noted above bears repeating: a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a criminal, unintentional, or suicide-related shooting than to be used in a self-defense shooting.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 27, 2005, 10:03 am

you put a gun in your home and the chance a friend or family member getting injured or dead is greatly increased.

Only to the degree of your own negligence... You leave a circular saw plugged in on the nightstand and theres a good chance little Billy will be short a few fingers before all that long. Would anyone in their right mind do that? So why do they leave guns loaded and easily available?

Firearms to children, teens and some adults not trained in their use, other than games, movies and cartoons are a toy. The bad guy gets back up, the good guy gets shot 20 times and keeps moving.

A little knowledge and some common sense go a looong way.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 27, 2005, 10:49 am

A little training goes a long way. I have seen some real morons handling firearms in my life. I was properly trained sice I was a small child to respect a firearm and treat it as a loaded and dangerous weapon every time it was picked up. Guns are inanimate objects that cannot do anything without someone operating them. Much like cars, they can be dangerous when handled by people who should never be given the oppurtunity.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 27, 2005, 10:59 am

Seriously, how many of those kids that shoot themselves/friend/relative accidentally actually had any handgun training? I bet most of them, AT MOST, got the standard "Stay away from Daddy's shiny bangstick, because I said so" routine, which actually makes the gun a taboo object, and thus increases its desirability TENFOLD.

My uncle started taking me shooting when I was 8. I took a hunter education course at 11. I saw up close and personal what bullets do to deer and bear. My uncle kept his guns in an unlocked closet, yet never once in my life was I tempted to show a piece off to friends, fire it into the air in a residential area, take a thug lyfe picture for the intarweb, or the other assorted forms of fireams-related assclownery.

Education is the key to firearm safety, and ALL education starts at home.

Llaffer · Post by **Llaffer** » June 27, 2005, 11:30 am

No, Conservative.

If someone is properly trained and stores them locked-up, unloaded, away from kids, I have no problem with someone keeping one in-home.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 27, 2005, 12:04 pm

Canadian Conservative (roughly equivalent to US moderate) and own 2 hunting shotguns.

Aabidano wrote:
you put a gun in your home and the chance a friend or family member getting injured or dead is greatly increased.
Only to the degree of your own negligence... You leave a circular saw plugged in on the nightstand and theres a good chance little Billy will be short a few fingers before all that long. Would anyone in their right mind do that? So why do they leave guns loaded and easily available?

Firearms to children, teens and some adults not trained in their use, other than games, movies and cartoons are a toy. The bad guy gets back up, the good guy gets shot 20 times and keeps moving.

A little knowledge and some common sense go a looong way.

I'd be interested in seeing some stats to back up your assinine assertion about circular saws here.

I agree that training and common sense with regard to firearms, go a long way in preventing accidents associated with them but that still doesn't account for all the abuses and ultimately wrongful deaths. You start to work on probabilities: the more weapons out there, the greater chance there is that someone un-trained will gain access to it, whether a kid finding it when Mommy and Daddy aren't watching, a teenager screwing around when the parents aren't around, or some moron buying one without any idea what the dangers can be. Our culture also tends to glorify "trigger happiness" in a number of things like westerns, war movies and cop shows on TV and while I don't buy into the whole "TV made me a killer" routine, I think it does have an impact in directing peoples responses to "that noise must be an intruder coming to kill me" rather than " is one of the kids up down stairs" and it does encourage youngsters in behaving that way.

And Canoe, you should be more realistic in your examples: Switzerland may have relatively lax gun laws but at one point (not sure if they still do) they also had mandatory military service and thus firearms training. Also what are their firearms storage laws like: are weapons and ammunition required to be stored seperately or locked? Mexico on the other hand is a developing nation, where life is generally cheaper than in developed nations and a poor basis for comparason.

Honestly I don't see a real use for handguns for anyone outside of the military or law enforcement. Home intruders can be dealt with quite effectively with a bat, especially if you know the ground and they don't... and if they get you asleep, do you realistically think you'd be able to wake up, get the gun out of your night stand and be alert in time to stop them from beating your ass?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 27, 2005, 1:59 pm

I guarantee if you put a 6 year old in a room with a saw, and had his mom tell him NEVER to touch the machine, 30 seconds after she left the room, the kid would be playing with it.

However, if you expose that kid to what it's for (WORK), I guarantee that shiny piece of wonder turns into another one of Dad's boring tools.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » June 27, 2005, 2:22 pm

masteen wrote:I guarantee if you put a 6 year old in a room with a saw, and had his mom tell him NEVER to touch the machine, 30 seconds after she left the room, the kid would be playing with it.

However, if you expose that kid to what it's for (WORK), I guarantee that shiny piece of wonder turns into another one of Dad's boring tools.

This totally didn't work for my cock, and I don't think it's relevant to guns either

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » June 27, 2005, 2:30 pm

No one has really brought this up yet.

If you believe, this will be relevent. (shouldn't bother most of you)

1: Thou shall not kill.

Pretty simple. There are no sub clauses stating. "except for when...".

With that in mind, guns are basically made for killing (and starting races).

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 27, 2005, 2:49 pm

Wulfran wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some stats to back up your assinine assertion about circular saws here.

a·nal·o·gy
1. A form of logical inference or an instance of it, based on the assumption that if two things are known to be alike in some respects, then they must be alike in other respects.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » June 27, 2005, 3:46 pm

Canoe wrote:
Atokal wrote:
Nick wrote:I can understand Neost wanting a gun.

I can't understand the mindset of the person that attacked Neost with a gun.

So Noel was essentially right, guns aren't to blame, people are. Still hate guns^^

Having said that, a "tool" used for killing isn't the same as a hammer which is a "tool" for putting nails into wood.
Hand Guns + Idiots are to blame. Hand guns are made for one purpose only to kill humans. They are easily concealed, readily available in the USA and if someone has the time to contrast the usa murder rate vs countries that prohibit or severely restrict ownership I think you would find a much lower murder rate.
Completely disagree with you Toker - take a look at the SWISS murder and high crime rates.... extremely low. They have one of the least restrictive laws (barely any at all) in the world when it comes to hand guns.

To the other extreme - look at Mexico - extremely high crime / murder rates - but one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.

We could go back and forth for hours giving examples of this country or that country where gun ownership does or does not coincide with high murder / crime rates - but I think if you do extensive research you will see there is almost no correlation between the two.

Rowboat, I highly doubt that Mexicans are registered hand gun owners. But if you contrast two societies that are on a relative par economically, religiously, etc you need look no further than Canada for your comparison.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 27, 2005, 3:48 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:No one has really brought this up yet.

If you believe, this will be relevent. (shouldn't bother most of you)

1: Thou shall not kill.

Pretty simple. There are no sub clauses stating. "except for when...".

With that in mind, guns are basically made for killing (and starting races).

If we're getting Biblical, doesn't it also mention something about an eye for an eye? If someone is coming into my home with the intent of taking either my life or property (aka the things which enable my pursuit of happiness), I will strike them down with great vengeance and furious anger.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » June 27, 2005, 3:56 pm

I think if you smite them down with the jawbone of Miir you'd be within the biblical parameters.

Shanter · Post by **Shanter** » June 28, 2005, 12:10 am

No, conservative.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 28, 2005, 12:50 am

"Guns don't kill people, People kill people...But I think the guns help really"...

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 28, 2005, 3:36 am

Oh, come on now Arb.. You love to shoot a gun just as much as anyone else (well, those with an IQ above the mendoza mark, of course).

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 28, 2005, 9:20 am

Aabidano wrote:Only to the degree of your own negligence... You leave a circular saw plugged in on the nightstand and theres a good chance little Billy will be short a few fingers before all that long. Would anyone in their right mind do that? So why do they leave guns loaded and easily available?

a locked up gun in the home isn't going to help much for protection. which is what some people are basing their reason for having a gun in the home.

statistically, guns in the home do more harm than good. no matter how many precautions are taken. they don't really do much protecting.

educating your kids can help a lot, but are all their friends that come over educated and properly trained?

if i ever owned a gun and kept it in my home it would always be cleared with the weapon on safe before entering, locked up and kept seperate from the ammo which would also be locked up. but even then there's still a chance of something harmful happening as a result of keeping a gun in the home.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » June 28, 2005, 9:29 am

masteen wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote:No one has really brought this up yet.

If you believe, this will be relevent. (shouldn't bother most of you)

1: Thou shall not kill.

Pretty simple. There are no sub clauses stating. "except for when...".

With that in mind, guns are basically made for killing (and starting races).
If we're getting Biblical, doesn't it also mention something about an eye for an eye? If someone is coming into my home with the intent of taking either my life or property (aka the things which enable my pursuit of happiness), I will strike them down with great vengeance and furious anger.

I'm a top ten kinda guy so I stick with those. If you remember, "'Vengence is Mine', sayth the Lord."

Like I said though, this only pertains if you believe.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 28, 2005, 1:22 pm

Kill em all, let God sort em out!

ooloof · Post by **ooloof** » June 29, 2005, 1:37 pm

Yes, lots, no political affiliation

One time, thief breaks down my door while im sleeping - he quickly runs out after seeing me pull up the 38
Another time, 2 guys pounding on my door to check if anyone home, me waking up groggy, slowly get to the door where i then hear them jimmying the lock, they run off after hearing me cock the 9mm
3 thugs surrounding my 2car garage attempting to carjack me (imo) then running off after the hear the cocking of the 9mm
A carful of thugs about to rob my neighbor right in front of me thinking i would do anything, out comes the 25 and off they go

Now, its not like im about to go blazing at them (thats the last thing i would want), its just for my security and that distinctive metal-to-metal clicking sound is quite a deterrant in itself.

Now, when i was younger, i was shot at quite a few times and all i coulda wished for at that instance was having a piece to defend myself (meaning: able to shoot back) but I know that it would of just been worse off if i did.

The worst experience i ever had with a firearm was when i actually had to use it on another person. A band of mexicans were once trying to get it on with me and my buddies, we avoided them cause we knew we would beat em down good (or worse) but then that got them even more annoyed/agitated since they were lookin for a fight. 2 of them pulled out what we thought were 45's and pointed at us, i whipped out the 38 and hesitated -1 second-and fired at the parked car to their side (cause i was scared of the legalities if i hit one of them), now during that 1 second and after the shot -they dropped their bbguns and ran stumpbling over themselves. That one second felt like 10 minutes with all the thoughts going thru my mind.

Now that im married and moved outta the old neighborhood, the wife doesnt let me keep anything in the house and i just dont feel totally secure since i have experienced a home invasion.

I'm just glad that i have the privledge of being able to protect myself evenly with what the thugs out there have. A baseball bat works most of the times but not all

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 29, 2005, 5:23 pm

That's a bunch of shooting! Where do you live, Compton?

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » June 29, 2005, 6:50 pm

holy cow ooloof .. you live in the ghetto or something?

Xorian · Post by **Xorian** » June 29, 2005, 8:59 pm

Hey Canoe, do you know if your statistic about Swiss was with the military rifle ?

I have a rifle at home, because i did my military duty and we have to keep it till we are like 40 old....once upon a year we have to go to shooting range and make some shoots.....besides that i don t own a gun and dont think i would own one.

However this statistic about switzerland makes me wonder if it i counting the army rifle....i don know many people with a gun. All what i know is that military rifle is way more often used to comitt suicide than to kill or attack someone.

edit typo

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 29, 2005, 10:45 pm

Xorian wrote:Hey Canoe, do you know if your statistic about Swiss was with the military rifle ?

I have a rifle at home, because i did my military duty and we have to keep it till we are like 40 old....once upon a year we have to go to shooting range and make some shoots.....besides that i don t own a gun and dont think i would own one.

However this statistic about switzerland makes me wonder if it i counting the army rifle....i don know many people with a gun. All what i know is that military rifle is way more often used to comitt suicide than to kill or attack someone.

edit typo

Americans don't have to make some shoots every year until we're 40 but we also don't have mandatory military service either like you do in Switzerland.

I lived in Switzerland for a year (Lugano) and I don't know why the Swiss are so strict about military service. Your country would be an absolute bitch to invade. It's all mountains with a bazillion tunnels that can be blown if needed to stop troop advancements.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 29, 2005, 11:21 pm

Switzerland is a beautiful country.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 30, 2005, 1:18 am

Nick wrote:Switzerland is a beautiful country.

Yes it is. This is the view from my dorm when I went to school there. But as you can see, all hills!

Here's two of my instructors right outside my dorm room balcony. World History Left (Brown University) and English Literature Right (Dartmouth). They hired all Ivy League grads right out of college. Smoking pot and drinking beer with the students. Ah, the good life.

It's all about the skiing and snowball fights. Seriously though, TASIS is a great place to send your kids to finish up high school if you can swing the 54,500 Swiss Francs (42K U.S) a year. Includes meals!

It's an even better gig for someone to teach right out of college. Put getting a real job off for a year and travel europe with kids that make more a week in allowance than you'll get paid.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » June 30, 2005, 11:16 am

Bubba, if you read the Hebrew version and the more recent English translations you will find that the commandment is not "Thou shalt not kill" but "You shouldn't murder."

From an Old Testament sense there were MANY instances where God told the Isrealites to go and kill TONS of people because it was His will. It's not that killing is wrong, it that murder, or killing without justification (God's justification) is wrong.

That being said I feel that the New Testament changes some of that but that's another topic.

Marb

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » July 1, 2005, 11:24 pm

But xorian, you live in france!

Gemily · Post by **Gemily** » July 5, 2005, 9:47 am

Yes, moderate. And a fishing pole too.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 5, 2005, 10:48 am

Yes, moderate. And a fishing pole too.

I don't think fishing poles kill roughly 30,000 people per year in America, so any point you were trying to make with that statement is pretty silly.

Xorian · Post by **Xorian** » July 5, 2005, 6:34 pm

But xorian, you live in france

Fuck you Cracc

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 10, 2005, 9:34 am

no, but I likely will eventually (social liberal/ fiscal conservative) i was taught how to use a rifle around the age of 7 and a handgun around the age of 12 and still go to the shooting range every few years when im around my grandfather

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 10, 2005, 11:30 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Yes, moderate. And a fishing pole too.

I don't think fishing poles kill roughly 30,000 people per year in America, so any point you were trying to make with that statement is pretty silly.

Irresponsible people kill that many people a month with automobiles. Doctors mistakenly kill that many people a year with malpractice. More than that many people die every year from drug overdoses. Everything in the world is dangerous when people are the ones handling dangerous things.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 10, 2005, 4:37 pm

Society needs cars. Society needs doctors. Society doesn't need guns. The primary use for a gun is for people with small penises to shoot them at things to kill them, and you're comparing them to cars and doctors?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 10, 2005, 5:31 pm

Society needed guns more than cars so they could hunt for food. Now that the technology for guns is known, there is no way to eliminate them. Even if you made them illegal, people would still be able to make them or obtain them. Cars are no more necessary to live than guns are.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 10, 2005, 5:57 pm

so we ate berries and dirt before guns were invented?

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 10, 2005, 6:01 pm

kyoukan wrote:Society needs cars. Society needs doctors. Society doesn't need guns. The primary use for a gun is for people with small penises to shoot them at things to kill them, and you're comparing them to cars and doctors?

hey, you forget that in the U.S we are probably looking at a frist/delay 08 ticket, we need guns to overthrow the government

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 10, 2005, 6:05 pm

kyoukan wrote:so we ate berries and dirt before guns were invented?

…but finding a meal was far more time consuming then it was previous to guns, although I highly doubt gunpowder was invented for the purpose of hunting