Those wacky Japanese preverts....

What do you think about the world?
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kyoukan
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Post by kyoukan »

no I just wanted to check and see if it was worth my time continuing the argument.
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Post by Kelgar »

No problem. I don't consider Japan's apologists/whitewashers worth listening to.
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Post by Nick »

PLUS HE IS WAY COOLER THAN EVERYONE
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Post by Sueven »

I was speaking to a Taiwanese friend of mine recently about the differences between Asian countries and peoples. He was describing his perceptions of the various groups, and when he got to Japan, he said "Fuck Japan. I fucking hate Japan. I will punch every Japanese person in the face."

When we went on to talk about the current Sino-Japanese tensions, he said "Fuck Japan. They won't do anything about it because they're a bunch of pussy bitches." The interesting thing is that he's an intelligent, politically aware guy who can craft reasonable arguments about basically any subject. Apparently he hates Japan enough that he doesn't even think it's worthwhile.

He also went on to detail Japanese atrocities in WWII, which are certainly horrific. I got the impression that this particular bit of history was the root of his present animosity. China and Japan have had a history of conflict, of course, but WWII seemed to be the single most important issue to him.

I've never been to China or Japan, so I can't speak about either country from experience. I have studied a reasonable amount of Chinese history and politics, and any knowledge of the subject I have comes from this study.

Kelgar: I have two questions for you.

1. You ascribe part of the responsibility for this phenomenon to Shintoism, which you claim breeds ideas of racial superiority and thus sexual assault. China has historically viewed itself as the 'center of the world,' and some would argue that racial superiority has been a long-held tenet of the Chinese experience. Then we've got the whole Century of Humiliation thing in the post-opium war period. Why do you think that these ideas of racial and national superiority have manifested in sexual perversion in Japan but not in China?

2. What do you think about the recent textbook tensions between China and Japan?
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Post by Niffoni »

Don't fall for it! He's trying to get you to write a feature-length article on the subject so he can publish it as his own! :D
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Post by Nick »

That whole textbook thing sounds fucking awful, I am in full support of the Chinese on that one.

Re-writing history like that would be like Germany ignoring their role in WW2. Unforgivable.

Not that I think people of future generations should suffer for past generations mistakes, but they should learn from them and be aware of them.

For obvious reasons. :roll:
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Post by Truant »

Sueven wrote:I was speaking to a Taiwanese friend of mine recently about the differences between Asian countries and peoples. He was describing his perceptions of the various groups, and when he got to Japan, he said "Fuck Japan. I fucking hate Japan. I will punch every Japanese person in the face."

When we went on to talk about the current Sino-Japanese tensions, he said "Fuck Japan. They won't do anything about it because they're a bunch of pussy bitches." The interesting thing is that he's an intelligent, politically aware guy who can craft reasonable arguments about basically any subject. Apparently he hates Japan enough that he doesn't even think it's worthwhile.
Just wanted to add. Nearly all the Chinese males I work with are exactly the same way. Even the quote is nearly identical.
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Post by Winnow »

There's a lot of Chinese/Japanese angst in kung-fu movies as well.

Bruce Lee kicked some Japanese ass in one of his movies.
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Post by Kelgar »

Nick wrote:PLUS HE IS WAY COOLER THAN EVERYONE
Never claimed everyone, just you. Isn't saying much considering that the cheese that forms on my sack on a hot sunny day has more profound things to say than you do.

Sueven wrote:Kelgar: I have two questions for you.

1. You ascribe part of the responsibility for this phenomenon to Shintoism, which you claim breeds ideas of racial superiority and thus sexual assault. China has historically viewed itself as the 'center of the world,' and some would argue that racial superiority has been a long-held tenet of the Chinese experience. Then we've got the whole Century of Humiliation thing in the post-opium war period. Why do you think that these ideas of racial and national superiority have manifested in sexual perversion in Japan but not in China?

2. What do you think about the recent textbook tensions between China and Japan?
1. Chinese civilization was once the most advanced and powerful in the world for several centuries, so of course there was going to be egocentric racial or cultural supremacism. Happens all the time. The difference is, however, how this mentality translates to how they deal with other peoples and cultures. You would have to go back to the Mongol (Yuan) Dynasty to find anything in China's past which comes anywhere close to what Japan did during WWII. There's also the little fact that Mongols aren't Chinese.

As for sexual perversion, Shintoism's teachings took the concept of racial supremacism to a far more extreme level than the Chinese ever reached. It's one thing to simply "know" that you're better, but it's another thing to dehumanize another to the point where the "lesser" race is no longer human and can be "toyed" with as you wish. Japan's not the first country to partake in rape and slaughter, but they're easily the worst culprit in recent modern history. As for your corollary question, I can only guess that it's more "fun" to rape, torture, and kill "sub-humans" than to simply kill them.

2. I know that the CCP has a record of inflating issues (spyplane/fighter pilot incident early 2001), but that doesn't negate having a legitimate beef. The Japanese school system basically downplays/whitewashes the history of their occupations. It's very common to hear some ignorant tard say stupid shit like "Nanjing was a hoax" and "Japanese annexation of Korea was a huge boon for them because they were such a backwater nation of peasant farmers".

Japanese reluctance to admit any wrongdoing partially stems from bushido/Shinto culture wherein their holy emporer was supposed to be infallible. When they got pwned by the US, that wrecked a huge part of their belief system, but apparently not enough. The atitude of refusing to admit wrongdoing; never having to say you're sorry, still exists. Japanese politicians have made formal apologies to China, but never on behalf of the goverment.

This is a huge joke considering what their counterparts, the Germans, did after WWII: numerous Holocaust museums, full disclosure of their past a mandatory lesson in their curriculum, and formal apologies from the German government. Despite this, the Japanese are seriously getting consideration to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council. As a Jew, would you not feel that would be a fucking joke were it the other way around?
Last edited by Kelgar on May 18, 2005, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nick »

Ok Shooter McGavin!

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
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Post by Niffoni »

Nick wrote:Ok Shooter McGavin!

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
Your rebuttal, Kelgar's sack-cheese?
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Post by Kelgar »

That's the best you can do? You do Adam Sandler a diservice.
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Post by Nick »

Well I reckon that's probably better than doing a diservice to over a billion chinese people.

All I know of you is that apparantly you "likes teh teabag" and hate Japanese people, whilst possibly being the most laughably poor flamer to come here in a good while. When you bother to have some form of opinion here on anything other than your own little ego-centric issue (this thread) I may take you with a little more respect, as it stands, it appears Cart was finally right about something.

Now that is pretty fucking shameful.
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Post by kyoukan »

chinese apologist. ask a mongol what they think of your imperialism.

free tibet and it's also interesting that the way you describe how the japanese referred to the annexation is the same way is generally the same way the chinese regard the annexation of tibet.

but don't let me get in the way of your white washing.
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Post by Kelgar »

kyoukan wrote:chinese apologist. ask a mongol what they think of your imperialism.

free tibet and it's also interesting that the way you describe how the japanese referred to the annexation is the same way is generally the same way the chinese regard the annexation of tibet.

but don't let me get in the way of your white washing.
Show me where the Chinese ever engaged in wholesale slaughter, rape, and sexual slavery in the course of their imperialism. Don't you have anything better? That one was too easy. Better yet, let's hear all about how the US is the most disgusting country evar for having used nukes. Let's hear all about how those poor Japanese were the victims of nuclear holocaust and that the US is full of lies when they said the move was calculated to avoid the much greater losses in a dragged out land invasion.

*edit*: Just for you.

- But the Americans continued to read the Japanese codes. Almost immediately; the Magic Summaries revealed that the new foreign minister, Mamoru Shigemitsu, had begun a world-wide propaganda campaign to brand the Americans as war criminals for using nuclear weapons.

-Tokyo's goals included keeping Emperor Hirohito from being tried for instigating a war of aggression, and diverting Western attention away from the many Japanese atrocities committed since the start of the Sino-Japanese war in 1937.

-"Since the Americans have recently been raising an uproar about the question of our mistreatment of prisoners [of war],'' Shigemitsu instructed his diplomats in the Sept. 15, 1945, "I think we should make every effort to exploit the atomic bomb question in our propaganda".

PS: 27% of Allied POWs held by Japanese died vs 4% vice versa.
Chalk up the attempt to label themselves as victims instead of agressors to the list. Gotta love revisionist bullshit.
Teeny wrote:Well I reckon that's probably better than doing a diservice to over a billion chinese people.

All I know of you is that apparantly you "likes teh teabag" and hate Japanese people, whilst possibly being the most laughably poor flamer to come here in a good while.
Adam Sandler called. He wants his joke back said he's going to PK you IRL for sucking so badly. I don't hate Japanese people, only the apologists, which happens to include a great many Japanese.


When you bother to have some form of opinion here on anything other than your own little ego-centric issue (this thread) I may take you with a little more respect, as it stands, it appears Cart was finally right about something.

Now that is pretty fucking shameful.
How laughable. Getting lectured about egocentricity by you of all people. I know that US foreign policy sucks. Hell, I know that US domestic policy has taken a turn towards more suckdom. I'm fully aware of the degree to which China sucks. The same goes for Japan. I see suckdom everywhere, fuckface. Japan's suckdom is an issue which has been continually played down by them and largely ignored by the West.
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Post by Zaelath »

In fact, the Nuremberg Tribunal itself established this principle. To bring the Nazi criminals to justice, it was necessary to devise definitions of “war crime” and “crime against humanity.” How this was done is explained by Telford Taylor, chief counsel for the prosecution and a distinguished international lawyer and historian:

Since both sides in World War II had played the terrible game of urban destruction – the Allies far more successfully – there was no basis for criminal charges against Germans or Japanese, and in fact no such charges were brought... Aerial bombardment had been used so extensively and ruthlessly on the Allied side as well as the Axis side that neither at Nuremberg nor Tokyo was the issue made a part of the trials.

The operative definition of “crime” is: “Crime that you carried out but we did not.” To underscore the fact, Nazi war criminals were absolved if the defense could show that their US counterparts carried out the same crimes.
There's why Hiroshima/Nagasaki weren't war crimes.

The Japanese were almost as zealous and self-righteous as the Bush administration.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
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Post by kyoukan »

Kelgar wrote:Show me where the Chinese ever engaged in wholesale slaughter, rape, and sexual slavery in the course of their imperialism. Don't you have anything better? That one was too easy. Better yet, let's hear all about how the US is the most disgusting country evar for having used nukes. Let's hear all about how those poor Japanese were the victims of nuclear holocaust and that the US is full of lies when they said the move was calculated to avoid the much greater losses in a dragged out land invasion.
moral relativism is a pretty weak counter-argument to make against my argument of moral relativism.

also, who mentioned nukes? that's probably a can of worms you shouldn't bother opening when you're talking about what horrific barbarians the japanese are.
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Post by Drasta »

pearl harbor!
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Post by Niffoni »

Drasta wrote:pearl harbor!
FUCK YEAH!
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Post by Aabidano »

Japan is much more careful than the US in protecting their image, "Japan for export" doesn't reflect reality in many ways. The news is heavily filtered internally, moreso than other free countries and not by the govt either. The networks do it to themselves, keeping in step with the outward "peace and harmony" that they want to display, regardless of reality.

I've said it in other threads, I've been all over Asia and the worldview of everyone except the Japanese was completely comprehensible to me. The "national ego" for lack of a better term isn't something you see anyplace else. You're made completely aware you don't belong there. Many rather revolting things ethnic Japanses nationals commonly do would get anyone else arrested in fairly short order. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge their own faults.

While racism isn't officially condoned, there aren't any laws against it and it's pretty widespread. Minority groups in Japan coming into conflict with ethnic Japanese don't have a chance, even in what would seem to be a cut and dried court case. They do have a better chance than foreign nationals though.

In the back of their hive mind, you aren't a person if you aren't Japanese, and that still continues today.
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Post by kyoukan »

Aabidano wrote:Japan is much more careful than the US in protecting their image, "Japan for export" doesn't reflect reality in many ways. The news is heavily filtered internally, moreso than other free countries and not by the govt either. The networks do it to themselves, keeping in step with the outward "peace and harmony" that they want to display, regardless of reality.

I've said it in other threads, I've been all over Asia and the worldview of everyone except the Japanese was completely comprehensible to me. The "national ego" for lack of a better term isn't something you see anyplace else. You're made completely aware you don't belong there. Many rather revolting things ethnic Japanses nationals commonly do would get anyone else arrested in fairly short order. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge their own faults.

While racism isn't officially condoned, there aren't any laws against it and it's pretty widespread. Minority groups in Japan coming into conflict with ethnic Japanese don't have a chance, even in what would seem to be a cut and dried court case. They do have a better chance than foreign nationals though.

In the back of their hive mind, you aren't a person if you aren't Japanese, and that still continues today.
You also just described Germany.
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Post by Wulfran »

kyoukan wrote:
Aabidano wrote:Japan is much more careful than the US in protecting their image, "Japan for export" doesn't reflect reality in many ways. The news is heavily filtered internally, moreso than other free countries and not by the govt either. The networks do it to themselves, keeping in step with the outward "peace and harmony" that they want to display, regardless of reality.

I've said it in other threads, I've been all over Asia and the worldview of everyone except the Japanese was completely comprehensible to me. The "national ego" for lack of a better term isn't something you see anyplace else. You're made completely aware you don't belong there. Many rather revolting things ethnic Japanses nationals commonly do would get anyone else arrested in fairly short order. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge their own faults.

While racism isn't officially condoned, there aren't any laws against it and it's pretty widespread. Minority groups in Japan coming into conflict with ethnic Japanese don't have a chance, even in what would seem to be a cut and dried court case. They do have a better chance than foreign nationals though.

In the back of their hive mind, you aren't a person if you aren't Japanese, and that still continues today.
You also just described Germany.
Not quite.

Germany has come out and admitted publicly that they were "in the wrong". They have laws outlawing the Nazi party and even the way information on the Nazis can be handled (i.e. it is illegal for a German website to contain things like the Nazi songs unless they meet some very strict guidelines to ensure that it is for educational and not political purposes). I'm not sure about "racism" laws per se but there are also things such as the holocaust memorial in Berlin as a very public reminder to themselves and the world as to where they went wrong.

In some ways the "national guilt" shown by Germans with regard to WW II and the Nazi attrocities gets a little nauseating after a while. On the other hand Japan has begrudgingly (if ever) admitted to any wrong-doing in the war... just like the Russians never apologize for any of the shit they did to the Ukranians, Georgians and other groups non-Russian groups in the USSR under Stalin et al.
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Post by kyoukan »

Wulfran wrote:Not quite.

Germany has come out and admitted publicly that they were "in the wrong". They have laws outlawing the Nazi party and even the way information on the Nazis can be handled (i.e. it is illegal for a German website to contain things like the Nazi songs unless they meet some very strict guidelines to ensure that it is for educational and not political purposes). I'm not sure about "racism" laws per se but there are also things such as the holocaust memorial in Berlin as a very public reminder to themselves and the world as to where they went wrong.

In some ways the "national guilt" shown by Germans with regard to WW II and the Nazi attrocities gets a little nauseating after a while. On the other hand Japan has begrudgingly (if ever) admitted to any wrong-doing in the war... just like the Russians never apologize for any of the shit they did to the Ukranians, Georgians and other groups non-Russian groups in the USSR under Stalin et al.
who said anything about WW2 and the holocaust
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Post by Nick »

Don't forget the US, UK, France etc Wulf. Hell just add in the rest of the developed countries. 8)
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Post by Kelgar »

kyoukan wrote:
Wulfran wrote:Not quite.

Germany has come out and admitted publicly that they were "in the wrong". They have laws outlawing the Nazi party and even the way information on the Nazis can be handled (i.e. it is illegal for a German website to contain things like the Nazi songs unless they meet some very strict guidelines to ensure that it is for educational and not political purposes). I'm not sure about "racism" laws per se but there are also things such as the holocaust memorial in Berlin as a very public reminder to themselves and the world as to where they went wrong.

In some ways the "national guilt" shown by Germans with regard to WW II and the Nazi attrocities gets a little nauseating after a while. On the other hand Japan has begrudgingly (if ever) admitted to any wrong-doing in the war... just like the Russians never apologize for any of the shit they did to the Ukranians, Georgians and other groups non-Russian groups in the USSR under Stalin et al.
who said anything about WW2 and the holocaust
The thread digressed into the realm of "who is the bigger whitewasher/denier of their past". Between the Chinese, Japanese, and Germans, it's a no contest.
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Post by kyoukan »

That doesn't change the fact that germans are still by and large a bunch of racial supremacists that treat non-germans unbelievably unfairly compared to how they treat themselves. that was the only point I was addressing because that was pretty much the only point he brought up.

germany is just as bad about whitewashing their past as any other country or culture is, only instead of denying it or ignoring it like japan does they blame absolutely everything on the nazi party. what they refuse to look at is the fact that the nazi party was completely comprised of germans and they were overwhelmingly popular until a few thousand soviet tanks rolled into berlin. then all of a sudden germans started saying "It wasn't us, it was those goddam nazis!"

there isn't a single country in the world where you will see a school textbook that says "boy did we ever fuck that one up." people's patriotism and tribalistic nature automatically put their own country into the best light that they can. it's human nature. look at yourself. you won't even take more than a sentence to glance at china's violent and imperialistic past, or their gross human rights abuses, or their treatment of tibet. but you're all up in arms about japan because they are "worse" and anyone that says anything otherwise is an apologist.
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Post by Nick »

I've never met a German like you describe Kyoukan, maybe you have just been unlucky.
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Post by Winnow »

Nick wrote:I've never met a German like you describe Kyoukan, maybe you have just been unlucky.
I'm with Teeny on this one.

I lived in Germany for six years in german towns of various sizes, and while there is always a few rebels in any country, the German people were a good bunch to be around or at least no worse than any other euro country.
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Post by Xzion »

kyoukan wrote:That doesn't change the fact that germans are still by and large a bunch of racial supremacists that treat non-germans unbelievably unfairly compared to how they treat themselves. that was the only point I was addressing because that was pretty much the only point he brought up.

germany is just as bad about whitewashing their past as any other country or culture is, only instead of denying it or ignoring it like japan does they blame absolutely everything on the nazi party. what they refuse to look at is the fact that the nazi party was completely comprised of germans and they were overwhelmingly popular until a few thousand soviet tanks rolled into berlin. then all of a sudden germans started saying "It wasn't us, it was those goddam nazis!"

there isn't a single country in the world where you will see a school textbook that says "boy did we ever fuck that one up." people's patriotism and tribalistic nature automatically put their own country into the best light that they can. it's human nature. look at yourself. you won't even take more than a sentence to glance at china's violent and imperialistic past, or their gross human rights abuses, or their treatment of tibet. but you're all up in arms about japan because they are "worse" and anyone that says anything otherwise is an apologist.
of course, i remember asking my dad about the Conquistadores and he explained how they were much more civilized then those dutch and french savages, and that they treated the natives with respect and expanded there culture /laugh

every nationality downplays there historical "fuck ups" and they always will, although americans do a somewhat good job about explaining the autrocities of slavery and discrimination in school (at least my schools)
except when teachers explain how every founding father was "very nice" to there slaves
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I am surprised at how the Irish and Candians are specialists in Asian culture, but the Asians know nothing about the culture of their own area.

:roll:
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Post by Tinkin Tankem »

The thing about the nazi party that you should realize is that they did not enter into the massive genocide until they were beyond the threat of being overthrown. The nazi party brought the germans out of a major depression and gave them hope. People were not fairing well at all and they had just taken major defeat in which many countries made Germany their "bitch." Via imposing new laws on the country, taking bits and pieces of the nation, and if memory serves re-creating former nations that the germans had previously conquered. Under these circumstances anyone with a clue about phsychology can understand why the german people were so easily sued into the nazi party. It gave them something which everyone else was taking away... hope. The nazi party took the gangs on the streets with guns and gave them a place. It took the people without jobs and gave them something to look forward to. Take away the whole idea of which country it happened to be and you could put these circumstances anywhere with the resources of the germans and Germany.

This is why at the end of WWII we didn't just rape and pillage the shit out of Japan. We (the collective powers, not just the almighty USA) rebuilt Japan and didn't let them fall into the realm that the germans did after WWI. The idea of rebuilding the nation worked out very well. Yes, there is most assuredly some built up anomosity towards the US for nuking Japan. However, it could have been much worse... TENFOLD if you will. Yet, it stands that most of the world has very good trade relations with Japan.

You can say that the germans breed the type of people that bring apon the ideas of the nazi party or similar. Or you can open your eyes and realize that every nation has people with off the wall thoughts that only under the correct circumstances will ever prosper. Hitler gave the germans hope and they followed blindly, blindly for the most part. Once he reached the point of being practically unstoppable, what were his soldiers to do? Defy him, have their own family and lives taken? It is a basic human nature to do what you need to do to survive and have your offspring survive.

I do not agree with nor do I support anything that the nazi party stood for. I do however understand and it seems very clear to me how something as such could happen so easily. There is no reason to patronize a nations past if you ever hope to move through today. The only thing that will ever get you is resentment and you'll put the otherside in a stance to more readily attack to defend their position. Ultimately it just isn't good.
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Post by Kelgar »

Bump.

More quotes from a right wingnut nationalist/racist who was elected with 70% of the vote:
Tokyo Governer Ishihara wrote: The Nanjing Massacre "never happened" and was a "Chinese creation".
-- 1995 Playboy magazine interview

If Japanese hadn’t fought the white people, we would still be slaves of the white people. It would be colonization. We changed that.
--courtesy of Japan Times

Foreigners are animals.
--courtesy of Japan Times
Other random mysogyny and racism from their politicians:
When there was a Y2K problem, the Japanese bought water and noodles. Americans bought pistols and guns.

Childless women should be denied welfare payments in old age.
--Former Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori

Gang rape shows the people who do it are still vigorous, and that is OK.
-- Liberal Democratic Party Legislator Seiichi Ota

"Many of [the comfort women] went for the money"
--Chief Cabinet Secretary Kajiyama Seiroku on Korean women forced into sexual slavery during WWII

Women who are raped are "asking for it" by the way they dress.
--Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda

Americans are weak because Blacks lower the IQ.
--Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone, 1986
And this gem:
The USA started world war 2, not Japan.
--Japanese Defense Minister Hosei Norota
Kelgar
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Post by Kelgar »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I am surprised at how the Irish and Candians are specialists in Asian culture, but the Asians know nothing about the culture of their own area.

:roll:
The Japanese generally don't like being lumped with "Asian" culture because that means association with the lowly Chinese, Koreans, Thai, etc.
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Chidoro
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Post by Chidoro »

here's the burning question

are you going to keep talking to yourself?
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Cartalas
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Post by Cartalas »

kyoukan wrote:yes winnow I have massive catalogs of groping statistics to back that up you worthless fucking turd. christ, tell me again why you post here?

it's called personal experience retard. I've never had a single discussion with another woman that hasn't claimed to have been grabbed by some retard someplace. hell you should know what I am talking about. I highly doubt you've advanced sexually with a woman you haven't had to sneak up on.
Oh that is proof, as Winnow said stat some statistics...............................................................................................................Still Waiting...................................................................................................................................................................................................Still waiting...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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Sionistic
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Post by Sionistic »

The USA started world war 2, not Japan.
--Japanese Defense Minister Hosei Norota
While it can be reasonably argued, its still a pretty dumb thing to say.
Kelgar
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Post by Kelgar »

Chidoro wrote:here's the burning question

are you going to keep talking to yourself?
I guess since others have already chimed in, it's "your" burning question (actually more of a clammy room temperature one).
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