Economy getting better...
Economy getting better...
The Republicans keep trying to bash Kerry and Edwards for pointing out that the "new" jobs aren't as good as the ones people lost and all we here is how good things are getting...
Guess this shows how bad things have actually been...
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/29/news/ec ... tm?cnn=yes
Marb
Guess this shows how bad things have actually been...
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/29/news/ec ... tm?cnn=yes
Marb
- Lalanae
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Frankly I have little sympathy for rich folks taking a hit in income. As for us average folks, it doesn't look that bad, and that's what I'm most concerned with.The report said the sharpest drops were in both the number and the earnings of people with the highest incomes. Those with incomes of $10 million or more saw average income fall 22 percent, while the number of returns reporting incomes at that level fell 53 percent during the two year period.
Meanwhile the average income of those filing returns with incomes between $25,000 and $500,000 saw the average income little changed, somewhere between a 0.1 percent decline and a 0.2 percent gain, depending upon the income category, the Times said.
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- Bubba Grizz
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Of course, a 22% drop in the super-rich has an enormous impact on the amount of income for the Federal Government because those people contribute a majority of the taxes. Furthermore, if the wealthy are feeling it now, then it can and will have an impact on the middle class in the months ahead as the big whigs tighten their belts by cutting middle class and blue collar wages.Lalanae wrote:Frankly I have little sympathy for rich folks taking a hit in income. As for us average folks, it doesn't look that bad, and that's what I'm most concerned with.The report said the sharpest drops were in both the number and the earnings of people with the highest incomes. Those with incomes of $10 million or more saw average income fall 22 percent, while the number of returns reporting incomes at that level fell 53 percent during the two year period.
Meanwhile the average income of those filing returns with incomes between $25,000 and $500,000 saw the average income little changed, somewhere between a 0.1 percent decline and a 0.2 percent gain, depending upon the income category, the Times said.
[65 Storm Warden] Archeiron Leafstalker (Wood Elf) <Sovereign>RETIRED
"Rich" people aren't rich because they're stupid. Broke people need to stop being jealous of wealthy people.
Taking money from business owners always dings their workers more. Good way to get more jobs outsourced. And people making that level of income aren't going to necessarily be hurt by the changes as far as their lifestyle...however, have any of you managed to boost your income which ended up costing you money by being bumped into a higher tax bracket?
That's a happy time.
And your study is dated.
Taking money from business owners always dings their workers more. Good way to get more jobs outsourced. And people making that level of income aren't going to necessarily be hurt by the changes as far as their lifestyle...however, have any of you managed to boost your income which ended up costing you money by being bumped into a higher tax bracket?
That's a happy time.
And your study is dated.
Time makes more converts than reason. - Thomas Paine
Those that inherited probably aren't paying much on taxes anyway. They probably pay a small amount on interest of their money but if those are in the right annuities and financial vehicles then they won't be paying much in taxes.
Taxing business owners even more will just make them pass the costs on. People would rather be jealous of "rich" people than work hard for themselves. We live in a "give me" state instead of the "earn it" state of our ancestors.
I would like to point out though that there are CEO's making way too much money at the expense of their companies. Most of these boneheads are figureheads who don't do much actual work.
Taxing business owners even more will just make them pass the costs on. People would rather be jealous of "rich" people than work hard for themselves. We live in a "give me" state instead of the "earn it" state of our ancestors.
I would like to point out though that there are CEO's making way too much money at the expense of their companies. Most of these boneheads are figureheads who don't do much actual work.
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- Adex_Xeda
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I personally wish we had a flat tax.
No deductions, everyone gets the same percentage. Everyone gets the same one-page income tax form.
I also wish that withholding be eliminated. Everyone should have to pay a big fat check once a year to Uncle Sam to remind them who pays the bills. Withholding is just sneaky trick to make you feel like your paying less taxes.
I also think the tax rate should be tied directly to the congressional budget.
Every year we get a balanced budget no matter what. And if people start complaining that the universal tax percentage is too high, they'll see a direct link to congressional spending. That way people will directly demand that new programs be halted, or that existing programs be streamlined.
No deductions, everyone gets the same percentage. Everyone gets the same one-page income tax form.
I also wish that withholding be eliminated. Everyone should have to pay a big fat check once a year to Uncle Sam to remind them who pays the bills. Withholding is just sneaky trick to make you feel like your paying less taxes.
I also think the tax rate should be tied directly to the congressional budget.
Every year we get a balanced budget no matter what. And if people start complaining that the universal tax percentage is too high, they'll see a direct link to congressional spending. That way people will directly demand that new programs be halted, or that existing programs be streamlined.
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That is a great idea.Adex_Xeda wrote:I also think the tax rate should be tied directly to the congressional budget.
Every year we get a balanced budget no matter what. And if people start complaining that the universal tax percentage is too high, they'll see a direct link to congressional spending. That way people will directly demand that new programs be halted, or that existing programs be streamlined.
All posts are personal opinion.
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
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My opinion may == || != my guild's.
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It might be partly meant as a sneaky trick.. but also to make it easier for people. Can you imagine how many people wouldn't bother saving up for it to be ready to pay it? I can guarantee you that millions of people would spend the money instead as soon as they get it.I also wish that withholding be eliminated. Everyone should have to pay a big fat check once a year to Uncle Sam to remind them who pays the bills. Withholding is just sneaky trick to make you feel like your paying less taxes.
Just like at how many people don't save up for retirement etc. Or how many idiots spend wildly on credit cards.
- Adex_Xeda
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The IRS charges you a penalty for doing this.Voronwë wrote:withholding is optional though =)
you can have your full pay straight to you and write that check April 15th if you want. just change your W-4
And by making it optional, it kills my reasoning for elimnating the witholding option. That is, people need to get a direct feel for how much they pay Uncle Sam. That moment of understanding should be just as painful as rent, morgage, or a car payment.
- Adex_Xeda
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Kelshara wrote:It might be partly meant as a sneaky trick.. but also to make it easier for people. Can you imagine how many people wouldn't bother saving up for it to be ready to pay it? I can guarantee you that millions of people would spend the money instead as soon as they get it.I also wish that withholding be eliminated. Everyone should have to pay a big fat check once a year to Uncle Sam to remind them who pays the bills. Withholding is just sneaky trick to make you feel like your paying less taxes.
Just like at how many people don't save up for retirement etc. Or how many idiots spend wildly on credit cards.
People can be counted on to make car payments, or pay rent.
They as adults can be counted on to pay their yearly tax check.
The prime concept here is 'Adult Expectations'
It is wrong and insulting to baby people on a governmental level.
- Adex_Xeda
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Voronwë wrote:hmm, really?
my accountant says he does it. i haven't done it in the past, but i am considering doing it in the future, especially if we can work our taxes this year to get a refund next year.
Granted that the tax code can change, but my understanding is the IRS recoops their lost interest from their prefered method of periodic payments by charging you this penalty.
There is a term called residual income. It's the reason why a flat tax is anything but equal.Adex_Xeda wrote:I personally wish we had a flat tax.
No deductions, everyone gets the same percentage. Everyone gets the same one-page income tax form.
Besides, is the economy ready to find new jobs and training for the 250,000 or so accountants that would lose their jobs over this

But withholding has the added benefit to the government of them being able to use that money in the meantime. If they did away with it they wouldn't be able to use it. In addition, the number of people who default on their taxes would be much greater in my opinion.
Personally I like witholding. It's an easy way to save money throughout the year without having to do anything.
Personally I like witholding. It's an easy way to save money throughout the year without having to do anything.
Not to mention most tax bills would be much larger than the average car/rent payment.Car payments and rent are paid monthly most of the time. And lots of people pay these late/get evicted/cars towed etc.
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- Forthe
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You have to take into account the extra expense (tax $) that would have to be spent pursuing the irresponsible.Adex_Xeda wrote:Adults can handle it.
People default on their credit cards all the time, should we not allow credit cards because of it?
Irresponsiblity is not an excuse.
All posts are personal opinion.
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
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You can not be exempt from withholding and be able to pay it at the end of the year unless maybe you're on fucking welfare. The only people that can do that is if you never have to pay (ie they always get a full refund). And you must file the exemption form every single year. And if you do, you can bet the IRS is going to have a hefty fine waiting for you. Hope you make more money on interest than the fines...my accountant says he does it. i haven't done it in the past, but i am considering doing it in the future, especially if we can work our taxes this year to get a refund next year.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p15/ar02.html#d0e1708
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- Lalanae
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That is correct. Being self-employed I pay my taxes quarterly in order to avoid the penalty.Adex_Xeda wrote:Voronwë wrote:hmm, really?
my accountant says he does it. i haven't done it in the past, but i am considering doing it in the future, especially if we can work our taxes this year to get a refund next year.
Granted that the tax code can change, but my understanding is the IRS recoops their lost interest from their prefered method of periodic payments by charging you this penalty.
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Ummm not to once more point out the abundantly obvious but these are EARNINGS and INCOMES, so fewer people are earning that much because.... with the shit economy noone is investing, they are holding thier chips for the time being. The gap between rich and poor continues to grow, because the Ultra Rich are not willing to invest in the economy is further proof that Bush's tax plan IS NOT WORKING, it always helps to read carefully eh?The report said the sharpest drops were in both the number and the earnings of people with the highest incomes. Those with incomes of $10 million or more saw average income fall 22 percent, while the number of returns reporting incomes at that level fell 53 percent during the two year period.
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Remind me again what the upside to your idea is? Oh yeah, build some extra resentment into the whole system because you feel you pay too much tax.Adex_Xeda wrote:Adults can handle it.
People default on their credit cards all the time, should we not allow credit cards because of it?
Irresponsiblity is not an excuse.
The majority of people would not budget for a once a year payment of 20% well and would end up having their next years wages garnished on top of a nice fine for late payment. At that point they can never catch up, so effectively back to the same system only they pay more and the government loses a large percentage of a full year's income.
BTW, it's called human nature, something people take into account in the real world. Just because something is wrong doesn't make unlikely, just because something is a weakness does NOT mean you can pretend it doesn't exist.