American Muslims told to leave 3 US cities immediately

Silvarel Mistmoon · November 12, 2003, 11:43 am

I am shocked over the news of Al-Quaeda bombing Saudi Arabia. I realize they hate the western infulence in their homeland, but this was a step I did not think they would take, murdering fellow mulsims. I did not think that was allowed even under the most fundamental beliefs.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/ ... index.html

Quote:
Seventeen people, including five children, were killed and 122 people were wounded in Saturday's suicide car bombing in a mostly Arab neighborhood in Riyadh, the Saudi Press Agency said

I understand their targets when they bombed America, they were for the most part military and economic targets of their enemy. Ok. But if you hate your home government being buddy buddy with the west, why not go after military and economic targets like they did with us, and not an urban area? I don't get it. Unless they are expecting the common folks to get pissed at the government about Al-Quadea having to bomb them to get attention to their cause. Confusing right?

Krimson, I think the thing to remember is that they are terrorists. They want to put fear in to the lives of anyone who is not on their side. I think they use Islam to get more people to join them, people that need something to believe in.
You can say that it is really about Islam but what its about is becoming in control and forcing your power on the rest of the world or country which ever you can take control over.
Look at Hitler, he gained the peoples trust because of the time period at the time, people needed some one to blame for their trouble.
If you look at the other terroists you will find the same thing.
The KKK are the same, if you do not believe in their views you are a enemy and you will see many of them quote the bible, some times they quote things they claim to be in the bible but are not.

ALL hate groups are terrorists, they all find something to use to gain members to help their cause.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » November 12, 2003, 12:01 pm

You're so wrong you make my head hurt.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 12, 2003, 12:49 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:Please tell me your reasoning for disagreeing with what I posted.
I gave you a well-reasoned, somewhat researched answer to your post. So far you've called what I posted "crap" and me a tool, without offering a single shred fo counterargument.

So bring it on you fucking chimp, and let's see if your Fox Education can stand the test.

Simple answer for you here....he has no arguement. Hence, the name calling. Simpletons usually resort to name calling once they realize they are talking out of their ass, but refuse to admit it. Even to themselves.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » November 12, 2003, 1:39 pm

Skogen wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Umm not to jump on Kyoukans side here but the Christian bible states the same damn thing.

And those are not literal meanings.
The trouble is there are a lot more Islamists who take passages from the Koran as literal. The Koran is undoubtly a very complex & large work. Its also not really interpreted the way the bible is, as the Koran is seen by most major muslim groups as the word of God, the original of which is written on tablets in heaven. Its believed to be the "perfect creation", and that belief is widely established.
When you combine it with ignorance, its lethal. (yeah, just like christianity too, I know.)

Read the old testament. Some scary shit in there. God got all nice and cuddly after Jesus was born I guess.

Now do a search for Israeli web boards. Read some of the crap that is quoted from the old testament (from the right-wing nutcases not all Israelis - also from a lot of US Jewish converts for some odd reason). They also believe it is the direct word of god as opposed to the new testament which is a piece of fiction. In fact I strongly encourage some of our Christian conservatives to do so. Would be a highly entertaining clash of radical beliefs.

Anyway my point is there are radicals in many religions, not just Islam.

Everything in moderation.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 12, 2003, 2:37 pm

Forthe wrote:
Skogen wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Umm not to jump on Kyoukans side here but the Christian bible states the same damn thing.

And those are not literal meanings.
The trouble is there are a lot more Islamists who take passages from the Koran as literal. The Koran is undoubtly a very complex & large work. Its also not really interpreted the way the bible is, as the Koran is seen by most major muslim groups as the word of God, the original of which is written on tablets in heaven. Its believed to be the "perfect creation", and that belief is widely established.
When you combine it with ignorance, its lethal. (yeah, just like christianity too, I know.)
Read the old testament. Some scary shit in there. God got all nice and cuddly after Jesus was born I guess.

Now do a search for Israeli web boards. Read some of the crap that is quoted from the old testament (from the right-wing nutcases not all Israelis - also from a lot of US Jewish converts for some odd reason). They also believe it is the direct word of god as opposed to the new testament which is a piece of fiction. In fact I strongly encourage some of our Christian conservatives to do so. Would be a highly entertaining clash of radical beliefs.

Anyway my point is there are radicals in many religions, not just Islam.

Everything in moderation.

What about numbers? Would you say there are just as many radical christians as there are radical muslims? If so, what are the differences between them?

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » November 12, 2003, 7:54 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:Please tell me your reasoning for disagreeing with what I posted.
I gave you a well-reasoned, somewhat researched answer to your post. So far you've called what I posted "crap" and me a tool, without offering a single shred fo counterargument.

So bring it on you fucking chimp, and let's see if your Fox Education can stand the test.

Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 12, 2003, 7:56 pm

Metanis wrote:Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

I read 'em.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 12, 2003, 7:59 pm

Metanis wrote:Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do.

That's your counter-argument? You can't be bothered? Dude, seriously just stfu and go to http://forums.ultraconservativegodfearingchristian.com if you think that a discussion is you posting some of your 'science' and everyone else just agreeing with you.

If you're not even going to bother reading someone's rebuttal to your statements, just go the hell away.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 12, 2003, 8:11 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Metanis wrote:Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do.
That's your counter-argument? You can't be bothered? Dude, seriously just stfu and go to http://forums.ultraconservativegodfearingchristian.com if you think that a discussion is you posting some of your 'science' and everyone else just agreeing with you.

If you're not even going to bother reading someone's rebuttal to your statements, just go the hell away.

Hey, that link doesn't work wtf?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » November 12, 2003, 8:11 pm

Metanis: When you try to argue with another poster here, it is advisable to read their posts. When you yell about how terrible the "crap" they're spewing is, but you don't even have the patience (or intelligence) to read what you're talking about, then you're just a complete fucking idiot. You deserve to be iced in the face.

Also: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the religion is Islam, and the followers are Muslims. Meaning that "Islamist" is not a word. Is that accurate?

noel · Post by **noel** » November 12, 2003, 8:13 pm

Sueven wrote:Also: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the religion is Islam, and the followers are Muslims. Meaning that "Islamist" is not a word. Is that accurate?

Correct.

Sko,

I realize that link doesn't work, but you and I both know the site is out there.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 12, 2003, 8:22 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Sueven wrote:Also: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the religion is Islam, and the followers are Muslims. Meaning that "Islamist" is not a word. Is that accurate?
Correct.

Sko,

I realize that link doesn't work, but you and I both know the site is out there.

Probably hundreds!

Let's start here:

http://www.nationalist.org/

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » November 12, 2003, 10:00 pm

Edit: What she said

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kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 12, 2003, 10:04 pm

islamist isn't a word per se, but its a generally accepted slang for "islamic fundamentalist."

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » November 13, 2003, 12:43 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=islamist

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 13, 2003, 2:19 am

Skogen wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Umm not to jump on Kyoukans side here but the Christian bible states the same damn thing.

And those are not literal meanings.
The trouble is there are a lot more Islamists who take passages from the Koran as literal. The Koran is undoubtly a very complex & large work. Its also not really interpreted the way the bible is, as the Koran is seen by most major muslim groups as the word of God, the original of which is written on tablets in heaven. Its believed to be the "perfect creation", and that belief is widely established.
When you combine it with ignorance, its lethal. (yeah, just like christianity too, I know.)

I think it is also translated, and retranslated, and translated badly again over and over, and in different countries, it can be a different book even.

-=Lohrno

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » November 13, 2003, 7:47 am

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do

You all ready have a General in Iraq who thinks he's on a personal crusade against Satan. I'd say we're not as far from that position as you think.

There. I kept it to one point so you can keep up.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 13, 2003, 9:50 am

And of course a President who said he was doing God's work..

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 13, 2003, 11:23 am

And of course all the muslims who think they are doing Allah's work.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 13, 2003, 11:28 am

True

Kind of scary when you can pretty much interchange the comments made by the two sides though..

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 13, 2003, 12:08 pm

Kelshara wrote:True Kind of scary when you can pretty much interchange the comments made by the two sides though..

So are we in aggrement Religion is fucking up the world?

I wonder how God,Allah,Jesus,Jehovah,Mohammed,Santa Claus all fell about people killing other people in there name?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 13, 2003, 12:12 pm

Car, religion "fucking up the world" is nothing new. Religion up until 500 years ago was always one and the same as the government (in the West anyway). But religion (no matter which one you are talking about) essentially consists of people seeking social affiliation (typically with genetically similar persons) and rituatlized social events which help alleviate stress. The explanations of why we are here and all are secondary to providing comfort. I'm not saying religious people are 'emotionally weaker' than non=religious people and need support. All people need social affiliation, whehter it is being a "Yankees Fan", a member of "Ted Club", whatever we all identify ourselves by social ties.

yeah i'm pretty concerned about the manner in which fundamentalist Christianity is becoming increasingly intermingled with our government's decision making processes. I'd go out on a limb and say that every government in the history of this planet that has merged the religious with the political has met a violent end. And a lot of other people ended up butchered in the process.

Religion -functionally - is nothing more than tribalism, and tribalism is the most dangerous flaw in our species array of social behavioral traits in my opinion.

don't confuse my comments with a statement attempting to compare our government and Islamist terrorists. Though sad to say, however noble our goals, we end up killing more innocent civilians than the so-called barbarians.

Hopefully, the notion that we aspire to progress past this heritage of butchery, is something that we can actually accomplish. An aspiration that true followers of Islam and Christianity have in common - and even some people who are skeptical of the more prosaic cosmogenetic views hold it as well

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 13, 2003, 12:24 pm

So, a brief synapsis of this thread would be: "Everything is all fucked up because of idiots who really think they are doing god's work"[/i]

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » November 13, 2003, 12:48 pm

cosmogenetic

What?
I'm as pretentious a gobshite as anyone here but did you take 2 lumps of crack with this morning's coffee?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 13, 2003, 12:50 pm

cosmogenetic = of or pertaining to the origin of the universe

in this case , explanations of the origins of the universe: creation myths

yeah it may be over the top, but wtf

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » November 13, 2003, 12:50 pm

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 13, 2003, 12:53 pm

Gobshite hehe )

didnt know wtf that was )

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 13, 2003, 2:04 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:True Kind of scary when you can pretty much interchange the comments made by the two sides though..
So are we in aggrement Religion is fucking up the world?

I wonder how God,Allah,Jesus,Jehovah,Mohammed,Santa Claus all fell about people killing other people in there name?

There's a Santa-centric religion? Why wasn't I informed about this? I could really dig on a religion based on milk, cookies, and Elves!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 13, 2003, 2:07 pm

i think Capitalists pray to Santa Claus

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » November 13, 2003, 2:25 pm

Hrm that definition of gobshite isn't quite right. This is closer (youll have to scroll a bit)
http://www.viz.co.uk/profanisaurus/prop ... page_g.htm

Basically it's someone who talks a lot of bollocks.
Bollocks: http://www.viz.co.uk/profanisaurus/prop ... page_b.htm

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 13, 2003, 3:26 pm

masteen wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:True Kind of scary when you can pretty much interchange the comments made by the two sides though..
So are we in aggrement Religion is fucking up the world?

I wonder how God,Allah,Jesus,Jehovah,Mohammed,Santa Claus all fell about people killing other people in there name?
There's a Santa-centric religion? Why wasn't I informed about this? I could really dig on a religion based on milk, cookies, and Elves!

Its Christmas time Mother Fucker worship him or get nothing!!!

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » November 13, 2003, 3:37 pm

Santa Claus

"I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE !!1!1!"

Funny.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » November 14, 2003, 5:57 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Metanis wrote:Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do.
That's your counter-argument? You can't be bothered? Dude, seriously just stfu and go to http://forums.ultraconservativegodfearingchristian.com if you think that a discussion is you posting some of your 'science' and everyone else just agreeing with you.

If you're not even going to bother reading someone's rebuttal to your statements, just go the hell away.

You having a bad hair day Ferris?

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 14, 2003, 6:01 pm

Metanis wrote:
Aranuil wrote:
Metanis wrote:Tanc, no one bothers to read the point by point rebuttals. Why bother?

One comment though, you better hope that Christian's don't start believing like you do.
That's your counter-argument? You can't be bothered? Dude, seriously just stfu and go to http://forums.ultraconservativegodfearingchristian.com if you think that a discussion is you posting some of your 'science' and everyone else just agreeing with you.

If you're not even going to bother reading someone's rebuttal to your statements, just go the hell away.
You having a bad hair day Ferris?

wtf? bad hair day? Ferris? I dont remember any bad-hair day scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

not to mention the fact that its a pretty poor retort!

noel · Post by **noel** » November 14, 2003, 6:22 pm

He's under the mistaken impression that calling me Ferris Bueller is some sort of a slam.

I hate to break it to you Metanis, but comparing someone to Ferris Bueller is probably one of the coolest things you could say about them.

It's nice to see that when you have no valid argument your tactics are limited to:

1) Not reading, or claiming to not have read the rebuttal.

2) Ad-hominem attacks.

It's beautiful the way actions like that really bolster your position. Keep up the good work.