Prison abuse seems less and less "isolated"...

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 21, 2004, 11:22 pm

Ok so 8 more homicides in US run prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan...This begins to look less and less like "isolated incidents and more like we have some purely evil fuckers running around those jails...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... eaths_dc_3

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 22, 2004, 12:42 am

anybody check the WSJ journal article on the Red Cross thinking of going public with our prison abuse shit last October?

btw, WSJ is a conservative newspaper.

Red Cross has a strict policy of not releasing its reports to news agencies (part of their impartiality stuff).

this is a huge widespread problem that clearly goes to Steve Cambone (IN MY OPINION), who is Donald Rumsfeld's most trusted aid. connect the dots.

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 22, 2004, 4:16 am

I always believed that MP's were a collective group of purely sick fuckers actually. As much as I am horrified that they did the things they did; I am not totaly surprised.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 22, 2004, 10:49 am

MPs arent the main problem. it is Military Intelligence that directed these behaviors.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 22, 2004, 11:17 am

i thought there was another thread about this but oh well...

i have been through army interrogator school and i promise you, none of that shit is taught. quite the opposite. 97E's know better than anyone else that you can't do that stupid shit. i'm not even going to lay out the rules b/c they are so fucking basic. there IS a huge problem but it is not with how these people were taught to do their job. i feel bad the MI has to get a bad wrap for this shit.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 22, 2004, 12:07 pm

It is irrelevant how you are taught if you are ordered to do otherwise.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 22, 2004, 12:17 pm

i partially agree with you but in the military you are taught NOT to follow an UNLAWFUL order.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 22, 2004, 12:31 pm

Hey Kelshara quit beating that dead horse, they should be fried from the lowest private on up to their commanding general we all know that

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 22, 2004, 1:22 pm

Pft my dead horse enjoys it!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 22, 2004, 1:58 pm

It's very isolated. Certain media outlets are trying to make it look like it is larger than it is. Of all the prisoners we have a very small percentage have been involved in "abuse". This is yet another example of Americans bashing America. They have an agenda when they make more of things than they really are. One of them could be make America look bad so we pull out of Iraq. One of them could be make America look bad so Bush loses and the Democrats regain power. Who the fuck knows? No one. But, there is always an agenda.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 22, 2004, 2:10 pm

Damn them Un-American terrorists for reporting on prisoner homicides!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 22, 2004, 2:28 pm

Last I read was investigation of 37 prisoner deaths. Guess it can be argued wether that is isolated or not.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 22, 2004, 2:54 pm

This is yet another example of Americans bashing America.

I dont know, but multiple countries protesting this doesnt seem like just america bashing america

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » May 22, 2004, 4:29 pm

Yup, a few bad apples just "happen" to utilize the exact same illegal interrogation techniques in completly isolated parts of the world. I'm sure there was no directive from on high. Damn those anti-American sentementalists!

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » May 23, 2004, 2:26 pm

Sionistic wrote:
This is yet another example of Americans bashing America.
I dont know, but multiple countries protesting this doesnt seem like just america bashing america

he's just regurgitating Sean Hannity, as usual. Hannity typically avoids addressing how the world community feels about the US...unless it is those evil Muslims in the Middle East.

Mid needs a watermark of Hannity's peanut head behind all his posts.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 23, 2004, 6:05 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Sionistic wrote:
This is yet another example of Americans bashing America.
I dont know, but multiple countries protesting this doesnt seem like just america bashing america
he's just regurgitating Sean Hannity, as usual. Hannity typically avoids addressing how the world community feels about the US...unless it is those evil Muslims in the Middle East.

Mid needs a watermark of Hannity's peanut head behind all his posts.

Hannity said things similar to me? Cool. I don't have time to listen to Hannity, but nice try. Maybe people who think clearly sounds similar

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 23, 2004, 6:56 pm

You are correct, people who think clearly sound similar.. we all call you an idiot

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » May 23, 2004, 10:14 pm

HAHAHA saying Hannity thinks clearly is like saying Rush is thin.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 23, 2004, 11:25 pm

Lalanae wrote:HAHAHA saying Hannity thinks clearly is like saying Rush is thin.

You just showed your intellect. You hear people calling Rush a fat idiot and you puke it out over and over. Rush has been thin for about 4 years. LOL

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 24, 2004, 12:05 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Lalanae wrote:HAHAHA saying Hannity thinks clearly is like saying Rush is thin.
You just showed your intellect. You here people calling Rush a fat idiot and you puke it out over and over. Rush has been thin for about 4 years. LOL

Wow Lalanae, he showed you!

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » May 24, 2004, 1:27 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Lalanae wrote:HAHAHA saying Hannity thinks clearly is like saying Rush is thin.
You just showed your intellect. You here people calling Rush a fat idiot and you puke it out over and over. Rush has been thin for about 4 years. LOL

oh yeah, I forget being a drug addict causes weight loss.... even so, he still is not thin...

...and you are still a mindless idiot who spews conservative propaganda and supports the destruction of our freedom of speech.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 24, 2004, 2:46 am

You certainly have a strange standard for thin. Rush is still a fucking porker, he's just not disgustingly obese any longer. whacking yourself up on illegal pharmaceuticals will do that to you.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 24, 2004, 9:50 am

If Rush is considered thin, then I'm a fucking famine victim.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 24, 2004, 11:14 am

early 90s

2003

Isn't it hard to qualify your opinions of him if you're basing your opinions on decade old information?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 24, 2004, 11:19 am

I repeat...if that is fucking thin...then I must be a god damned skeleton.

HE IS LESS BIG, BUT NOT THIN.

edit. Actually, rofl...he looks the exact same size in both pictures.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 24, 2004, 11:26 am

I guess this is an indicator of the liberal mindset. It doesn't matter what the truth is, it only matters that the idea of a big fat cigar smoking republican is projected into discussion. It's easier to demonize this mental stereotype than it is to deal with the truth.

Likewise I wonder, if people act on and base their opinions on to this bloated falsehood. Are they also so disconnected from reality when thinking of the average conservative? Are they attacking a out of dated mental construct more than an everyday conservative?

I've personally witnesed incidents where I'm accused of all types of things that I've never done. Perhaps the accusers are attacking the disconnected mental construct more than their me personally?

*shug* I dunno.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » May 24, 2004, 11:32 am

You forgot to add in oxycontin/other painkillers addict.

Like he said - drug addicts deserve no sympathy.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 24, 2004, 11:42 am

Yeah Adex, you know what...we're all wrong, and you are right...we are all just blindsided by our own hatred.

For fuck's sake you frustrate me with your fucking blockheadedness.

Look, we're nto talking about some fucking fat cat mental image from 1890's political cartoons. Your like on some personal crusade to defend Rush fucking Limbaugh's weight...He's not a fucking teletubbie, but he is NOT thin.

And we are not a deluded mass, you're just too fucking stubborn and delusional to see that there are other opinions out there than the christian masses.

The absurdity of the shit that comes out of your mouth never ceases to amaze me. I seriously have no fucking clue what you are going to say next, but I know it's going to make me bang my face on my desk in pity of humanity.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 24, 2004, 12:35 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:Are they attacking a out of dated mental construct more than an everyday conservative?

Quite the contrary. I would probably identify with a conservative of old. Conservatives of today are going to ruin the planet with your moral policing.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 24, 2004, 12:45 pm

Well score a win for the resident conservative God squad. They've managed to derail the thread. Instead of talking about prison abuses in Iraq, we're bickering over Rush Limbaugh's weight.

There is no justification for the prison abuses in Iraq. The actions of the soldiers involved are so incredibly stupid... DUDE, LETS GET A PICTURE OF THIS!!! YEEHAW!!!

The worst part of all of this is that even if these seemingly widespread incidents only involve a handful of idiots, the soldiers that are over there risking their lives, and working hard, following good orders are made to look bad, as does our country.

I'm reluctant to believe that this was actually orchestrated by anyone on high. Typically when that happens, people just disappear, and all the torture is done behind closed doors and without a fucking camera.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 12:51 pm

Vetiria wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:Are they attacking a out of dated mental construct more than an everyday conservative?
Quite the contrary. I would probably identify with a conservative of old. Conservatives of today are going to ruin the planet with your moral policing.

There it is in a nutshell. The very reason people like me get enraged at people like you. God forbid people try to instill some morality in this country. I teach my children about how important it is to be good to people. I preach right from wrong constantly. But, when they walk out my door and see the contrary all the time, it really fucks with their mind. Religion isn't the answer. Morality doesn't need to be tied to religion all the time. Morality is morality, all by it self.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 24, 2004, 1:01 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There it is in a nutshell. The very reason people like me get enraged at people like you. God forbid people try to instill some morality in this country. I teach my children about how important it is to be good to people. I preach right from wrong constantly. But, when they walk out my door and see the contrary all the time, it really fucks with their mind. Religion isn't the answer. Morality doesn't need to be tied to religion all the time. Morality is morality, all by it self.

There's a huge difference between teaching integrity, prudence, honor, good values or teaching blind faith. Based solely on your postings here, you seem to be incapable of differentiating between the former and the latter.

More importantly, what does this have to do with the prison abuses in Iraq? Do you not have an opinion on the topic, or are you just trying to furhter derail the thread?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 24, 2004, 1:03 pm

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 24, 2004, 1:06 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There it is in a nutshell. The very reason people like me get enraged at people like you. God forbid people try to instill some morality in this country. I teach my children about how important it is to be good to people. I preach right from wrong constantly. But, when they walk out my door and see the contrary all the time, it really fucks with their mind. Religion isn't the answer. Morality doesn't need to be tied to religion all the time. Morality is morality, all by it self.

Your morals are no where close to my morals. I don't think it's okay to kill 10,000 civilians to make my president richer, whereas you do. See the difference?

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 24, 2004, 1:09 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There it is in a nutshell. The very reason people like me get enraged at people like you. God forbid people try to instill some morality in this country. I teach my children about how important it is to be good to people. I preach right from wrong constantly. But, when they walk out my door and see the contrary all the time, it really fucks with their mind. Religion isn't the answer. Morality doesn't need to be tied to religion all the time. Morality is morality, all by it self.

Then your kids must be having a hard time dealing with all this tortured prisoner business, huh? Then even a harder time trying to figure out why their hypocritical dad says it's ok to do that stuff to those 'animals' to protect our freedom. Talk about a mind fuck.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » May 24, 2004, 1:10 pm

I "Heard" on the radio this morning that are passing down an edict that will bar camera's and camcorders from all military personnel. That would be a fucking shame if true, and I dont have time to research it this morning. Anyone else heard anything like this?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 1:12 pm

Aranuil, read the fucking quote I am responding to before you pull out the bullshit "derailing" non-sense.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 24, 2004, 1:19 pm

Still no opinion then? I'm shocked.

Havent' heard that Mort, but I'm not surprised. Like I said, the thing that still surprises me is that these idiots were stupid enough to either photograph the events, or allow themselves to be photographed. That is beyond stupid.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 1:30 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's very isolated. Certain media outlets are trying to make it look like it is larger than it is. Of all the prisoners we have a very small percentage have been involved in "abuse". This is yet another example of Americans bashing America. They have an agenda when they make more of things than they really are. One of them could be make America look bad so we pull out of Iraq. One of them could be make America look bad so Bush loses and the Democrats regain power. Who the fuck knows? No one. But, there is always an agenda.

Aranuil, Since you obviously are unable to scroll up to the top, I have quoted myself here for you.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » May 24, 2004, 1:32 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast ... anchez.ap/

Interesting thing I saw over the weekend. Some of the of the accused soldiers had been claiming they were under orders previsouly, but implicating a Lt General is pretty serious. So the question is: are the accused soldiers trying to make up stories to confuse their guilt, or were they really following orders (albeit illegal ones)?

The banning of cameras/camcorders to soldiers, well I realize they do not enjoy all the rights and freedoms of their citizenry but I really think that a ban would be an overreaction. How many times since the time it was invented, have cameras been a part of history by recording the actions of soldiers doing their thing?

noel · Post by **noel** » May 24, 2004, 1:45 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's very isolated. Certain media outlets are trying to make it look like it is larger than it is. Of all the prisoners we have a very small percentage have been involved in "abuse". This is yet another example of Americans bashing America. They have an agenda when they make more of things than they really are. One of them could be make America look bad so we pull out of Iraq. One of them could be make America look bad so Bush loses and the Democrats regain power. Who the fuck knows? No one. But, there is always an agenda.

Aranuil, Since you obviously are unable to scroll up to the top, I have quoted myself here for you.

My bad.

I don't think this is an example of Americans bashing Americans as much as it's an example of a small group of Americans either under orders, or acting of their own accord, acting like idiots. Surely you can agree that the actions of these few soldiers was grievously wrong.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 2:00 pm

Oh most definitely Ara. I want those involved discharged from the military and imprisoned for a long as time. They made their country look very bad in a time where we really didn't need that. They need to pay for what they have done.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » May 24, 2004, 5:10 pm

He is a lot thinner than he was, but he is still overweight. Not a fatass, but certainly overweight.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 24, 2004, 7:48 pm

I'll just quote myself then Midnyte since you keep claiming it is soooo tiny and isolated.

Last I read was investigation of 37 prisoner deaths. Guess it can be argued wether that is isolated or not.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 8:08 pm

Kelshara wrote:I'll just quote myself then Midnyte since you keep claiming it is soooo tiny and isolated.

Last I read was investigation of 37 prisoner deaths. Guess it can be argued wether that is isolated or not.

Like over 100 people died today in car crashes too. Is this an isolated incident? OMG 100?!?!?!

What is it in proportion to dipshit? ohhhh the number 37 seems to strike fear when presented only by itself doesn't it? Jesus, seriously, who the fuck do you think you are talking to?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 24, 2004, 8:10 pm

An idiot, but that is old news.

37 people killed in prison by American troops in two different countries. How many more abused? Tortured?

Are you so god damn blind, or do you enjoy taking it up the ass from Rumsfeld so much, that you refuse to see that there is a problem?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 25, 2004, 3:23 am

1 is too many. The reputation of the US is in the shitter enough as it is.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 25, 2004, 11:26 am

If you profess a higher standard. Even your enemies will hold you to it.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » May 25, 2004, 11:28 am

The moment I heard the powers that be announce that this sort of scandal would never happen again, the very first thing I thought was "and by that, I mean we'll ban cameras so no one will find out about it". Is it sad that I've learned to default to cynicism to divine the future?

On the other side of things, the irony is that it probably plays less into fundie terrorist hands that more than just one or two prisoners died. Can you imagine if there was just one guy they really worked over and tortured, and someone got ahold of his name? Ah, the car bombs that would go off in his name. They'd be marching in the streets for months for him. It's almost lucky for America that this makes it harder to put a single face on these guys.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 25, 2004, 12:13 pm

Kelshara wrote:An idiot, but that is old news.

37 people killed in prison by American troops in two different countries. How many more abused? Tortured?

Are you so god damn blind, or do you enjoy taking it up the ass from Rumsfeld so much, that you refuse to see that there is a problem?

Not so fast. 37 poeple have died in those prisons. Again, you go jumping to a conclusion and overreacting. 37 people have died. Not killed......died. Maybe, just maybe some of that grand most scary horrid number of 37 is comprised of numerous situations which the media has not blessed us with yet.