Miir

[Kylere]

You know what, finding that data is a bitch. I do know the suicide rate is not any higher than it normally is for solider, but am finding a hard time tracking the data in a reference quality link ( no right wing or left wing nutcase sites)

But out of 135k troopies I can guarantee you that the death rate over the course of 18 months is at or exceeding 750 people. Add in dumb fuck reservists to the mix and the rate goes higher. I will look more as I have time.

[Cartalas]

"Add in dumb fuck reservists"


Hmmm you really are a piece of shit.

[Deward]

As a former National Guard member, I can say that we worked pretty hard on our weekends. We had to get a lot of training in during the small amount of time we served. There are certainly some units that lag behind but the national guard does have standards that say that the people have to pass standards of their jobs on a yearly basis.

I will agree that Reservists are probably in worse physical condition but I would bet that the IQ average of Reservists is a lot higher than regulars. A lot of College students (like I was) serve in the National Guard to pay for school.

[Ashur]

I was a reservist and I know where Kylere is coming from. In the Active Duty/Full Time military there is a general disregard for the reserve forces because they are not as well-trained as an active duty unit. Quite frankly, they can't be in general, as the personel are dedicated to that role 24x7.

That being said, there are exceptional quality individuals and exceptional fucktards in both active duty and reservist units... the active duty ones are just better managed by thier units due to time-in-job and experience of the soldiers around them.

In a war zone, things WILL be much worse for a person who spends the bulk of thier life filling another role (accountant, carpenter, teacher, full-time parent etc.) than the soldier who spends all day every day training for war. So suicide rates among reservists would likely be higher, especially the ones who joined for benefits and had zero willingness or belief they would actually be (gasp!) called upon to fulfill the duties for which the military trained them in a war zone.

[Xatrei]

I served active duty for 3 years and as a reservist (Army) afterwards. Ashur sums it up well. Even when highly motivated and well disciplined, most reserve or NG units cannot approach the level of readiness or competence of full time units. The problem is made worse by the scarcity of highly motivated, we disciplined reserve and guard units. Mixing under-trained and under-conditioned reservists into the mix always adds to any problems, and in my active duty experience, was something we were never thrilled to have happen.

[Cartalas]

I served active duty for 3 years and as a reservist (Army) afterwards. Ashur sums it up well. Even when highly motivated and well disciplined, most reserve or NG units cannot approach the level of readiness or competence of full time units. The problem is made worse by the scarcity of highly motivated, we disciplined reserve and guard units. Mixing under-trained and under-conditioned reservists into the mix always adds to any problems, and in my active duty experience, was something we were never thrilled to have happen.

But should they be called "dumb fuck reservists"?

[Ashur]

Sure, why not? It just tells us his point of view. It's really no different than someone referring to a class of folks as "dumb fuck neocons" or "dumb fuck liberals".

[kyoukan]

yes I like to be called a dumb fuck by some fatass retarded gimboid in flint when I serve my country in dangerous battlezones too. so basically we are supposed to "support the troops", but we can disrespect reservists all we want? how is that different than me just disrespecting all of them?

if kylere is making fun of the reservists, given the level of his retardation, I would hate to see what your reserves look like. it must be curly, larry and moe all running into each other and slapping.

[Kylere]

Hey Kyoukan, you are CANADIAN!! So your put yourself in the shoes of the American Reservist thing is lame. Your country has reserves to dig people out of snowbanks, not to fight wars.

Now, onto reservists.
-Reservists were responsible for our water deliveries in Saudi/Iraq, we had to borrow water from the Brits.
-Reservists were responsible for our ammo deliveries, we were bullet counting.
-Reservists were responsible for "shower tents" so we could get the sand off once a month, and we saw them once in 91 days.
-Reservists were responsible for our mail deliveries, and I saw mail delivered a total of 2 times in a row at regular intervals during my entire time in the desert.
-Reservists are the guys that show up for active training, such as AIT, PLDC, BNCOC, ANOC etc who are 50 lbs overweight, cannot do half the pushups required to pass the PT test, and are wearing uniforms that llok like they ate soup sandwiches for lunch.
-Reservists are the guys that like to laugh and joke about going back to a real job, when the guys out who are sucking up the front lines of defense, just go back to doing the same.
-Reservists are the ones that whine they just signed up for college money when the balloon goes up.

The few reservists I met while active, before or since that have been decent soldiers were almost without exception ones who had a prior RA enlistment of 3 plus years. The rest were the sorriest most pathetic excuse for soldiers I ever encounted outside of a finance office to ever wear the uniform of the United States. If all reservists here feel they are gods gift to the Army, the odds are entirely against you.

[kyoukan]

Hey Kyoukan, you are CANADIAN!!

so what is your point? my opinion is still worth a thousand of yours.

[Arborealus]

You know what, finding that data is a bitch. I do know the suicide rate is not any higher than it normally is for solider, but am finding a hard time tracking the data in a reference quality link ( no right wing or left wing nutcase sites)

But out of 135k troopies I can guarantee you that the death rate over the course of 18 months is at or exceeding 750 people. Add in dumb fuck reservists to the mix and the rate goes higher. I will look more as I have time.

Was pretty easy to find...

In 2003, 24 soldiers deployed to Kuwait and Iraq committed suicide — a rate of 17.3 per 100,000. The overall Army suicide rate during the same time period was 12.8 per 100,000 soldiers. This compares to the Army's rate of 12.2 for 2003 and 11.9 from 1995 to 2002.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2004 ... 03259.html

Troops deployed in Iraq have what the DoD considers an elevated suicide rate...So the who to believe the DoD...Kylere...hrrrrmmm tough one...

"suicide rate" deployed troops on google...first link is the article in question...

While the source may be a bit biased I think it safe to say, that it is not in the DoD's best interest to point out that the suicide rate has been half again as high as the general suicide rate in the Armed Forces...

Now the suicide rate for the 20 - 34 Male age (which covers most of the deployed forces) is 20ish per 100,000... the army is however concerned enough about the difference that they sent a MHAT team to sort out why the hell this was happening...The Statistics for YTD 2004 through March were substantially lower...I would anticipate this is due to the soldiers believing they would be headed stateside (sort of a "the end is in sight" phenomenon)...I would wager those rate have increased again in those units who have been notified they are being extended 90 days though I would venture not as much (as those with suicidal tendencies tend to reduce in a finite fixed population over time)...We shall see...

Thank you for playing feel free to further embarass yourself...

[Arborealus]

Hrrrmmm why lower suicide rates in the military in general?...I gather that typically/often posession of live ammuniton/personal firearms is much more controlled than in the US generally...especially those who live in bachelor's communal quarters (remember bachelors are way more likely to suicide statistically)...get these folks in a war zone, relatively less supervised and with lots of live ammunition, and suddenly their rates quickly approach normal rates for their age/gender group...

Though reading the DoD article it still seems the rate is way higher in Iraq than say Afghanistan...

Hard to say what the key factor is in Iraq but there are certainly significant and substantive increases in suicide rate in that theater...What's causal?...I'd say there is fair arguement that the difference in how the soldiers are treated by the populace in general would be a potentially causal factor...

Causal factors in suicide are tough as hell to pin down unfortunately...But I think comparing Iraq versus Afghanistan takes most of the variables out of play...so you end up looking at:

1) Difference in treatment by local population
2) Difference in perception of/feelings about the "mission"

What other variables can be posited as potentially causal?...I'm sure I'm missing some...

Anyway a lot to think about there...

[Kylere]

Actually Arborealus I wasn't talking about the suicide data at all, but the overall deathrate,

[Xzion]

Someone i know thats in in the special forces who just returned from Iraq, who has been both there and in afghanistan said the moral of the troops could not be any lower. At the beginning of the invasion they felt like they were fighting for a worthy cause, now they dont know what the fuck there doing there. He also said how blantaly obvious it was that Bush is using the troops and exploiting certain areas for a re election bid. The troops want to get the fuck out of thee and go home, this isnt our war, and it never has been.
If a people are happy having a fucking crazy fanatic like Hussein running there country, then thats there deal.

[Kylere]

Hey Kyoukan, you are CANADIAN!!

so what is your point? my opinion is still worth a thousand of yours.

Actually your point is only as valid as the Queen allows it to be.

[Metanis]

yes I like to be called a dumb fuck by some fatass retarded gimboid in flint when I serve my country in dangerous battlezones too. so basically we are supposed to "support the troops", but we can disrespect reservists all we want? how is that different than me just disrespecting all of them?

if kylere is making fun of the reservists, given the level of his retardation, I would hate to see what your reserves look like. it must be curly, larry and moe all running into each other and slapping.

I think this deserves to be repeated.

[Kelshara]

Actually your point is only as valid as the Queen allows it to be.

That was horribly weak. But I guess nothng more can be expected from you really.

[Wulfran]

Actually your point is only as valid as the Queen allows it to be.

Just as your opinions are only as valid as Dubya, Rummy and Ashcroft allow. Now I don't know about you but I know who I would prefer making up MY mind...

[Zaelath]

Hey Kyoukan, you are CANADIAN!!

so what is your point? my opinion is still worth a thousand of yours.

Actually your point is only as valid as the Queen allows it to be.

That a joke, or are Americans as ignorant as they seem about the rest of the world and how modern european monarchies and their "colonies" function?