The Myth of the Racist Republicans

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Brotha
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The Myth of the Racist Republicans

Post by Brotha »

This guy makes a great case...very logical and well thought out.

http://claremont.org/writings/crb/sprin ... ander.html
A myth about conservatism is circulating in academia and journalism and has spread to the 2004 presidential campaign. It goes something like this: the Republican Party assembled a national majority by winning over Southern white voters; Southern white voters are racist; therefore, the GOP is racist. Sometimes the conclusion is softened, and Republicans are convicted merely of base opportunism: the GOP is the party that became willing to pander to racists. Either way, today's Republican Party—and by extension the conservative movement at its heart—supposedly has revealed something terrible about itself.

This myth is not the only viewpoint in scholarly debates on the subject. But it is testimony to its growing influence that it is taken aboard by writers like Dan Carter, a prize-winning biographer of George Wallace, and to a lesser extent by the respected students of the South, Earl and Merle Black. It is so pervasive in mass media reporting on racial issues that an NBC news anchor can casually speak of "a new era for the Republican Party, one in which racial intolerance really won't be tolerated." It has become a staple of Democratic politicians like Howard Dean, who accuses Republicans of "dividing Americans against each other, stirring up racial prejudices and bringing out the worst in people" through the use of so-called racist "codewords." All this matters because people use such putative connections to form judgments, and "racist" is as toxic a reputation as one can have in U.S. politics. Certainly the 2000 Bush campaign went to a lot of trouble to combat the GOP's reputation as racially exclusionary. I even know young Republicans who fear that behind their party's victories lies a dirty, not-so-little Southern secret.

Now to be sure, the GOP had a Southern strategy. Willing to work with, rather than against, the grain of Southern opinion, local Republicans ran some segregationist candidates in the 1960s. And from the 1950s on, virtually all national and local GOP candidates tried to craft policies and messages that could compete for the votes of some pretty unsavory characters. This record is incontestable. It is also not much of a story—that a party acted expediently in an often nasty political context.

The new myth is much bolder than this. It insists that these events should decisively shape our understanding of conservatism and the modern Republican Party. Dan Carter writes that today's conservatism must be traced directly back to the "politics of rage" that George Wallace blended from "racial fear, anticommunism, cultural nostalgia, and traditional right-wing economics." Another scholar, Joseph Aistrup, claims that Reagan's 1980 Southern coalition was "the reincarnation of the Wallace movement of 1968." For the Black brothers, the GOP had once been the "party of Abraham Lincoln," but it became the "party of Barry Goldwater," opposed to civil rights and black interests. It is only a short step to the Democrats' insinuation that the GOP is the latest exploiter of the tragic, race-based thread of U.S. history. In short, the GOP did not merely seek votes expediently; it made a pact with America's devil.

The mythmakers typically draw on two types of evidence. First, they argue that the GOP deliberately crafted its core messages to accommodate Southern racists. Second, they find proof in the electoral pudding: the GOP captured the core of the Southern white backlash vote. But neither type of evidence is very persuasive. It is not at all clear that the GOP's policy positions are sugar-coated racist appeals. And election results show that the GOP became the South's dominant party in the least racist phase of the region's history, and got—and stays—that way as the party of the upwardly mobile, more socially conservative, openly patriotic middle-class, not of white solidarity.

Let's start with policies. Like many others, Carter and the Black brothers argue that the GOP appealed to Southern racism not explicitly but through "coded" racial appeals. Carter is representative of many when he says that Wallace's racialism can be seen, varying in style but not substance, in "Goldwater's vote against the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, in Richard Nixon's subtle manipulation of the busing issue, in Ronald Reagan's genial demolition of affirmative action, in George Bush's use of the Willie Horton ads, and in Newt Gingrich's demonization of welfare mothers."

The problem here is that Wallace's segregationism was obviously racist, but these other positions are not obviously racist. This creates an analytic challenge that these authors do not meet. If an illegitimate viewpoint (racism) is hidden inside another viewpoint, that second view—to be a useful hiding place—must be one that can be held for entirely legitimate (non-racist) reasons. Conservative intellectuals might not always linger long enough on the fact that opposition to busing and affirmative action can be disguised racism. On the other hand, these are also positions that principled non-racists can hold. To be persuasive, claims of coding must establish how to tell which is which. Racial coding is often said to occur when voters are highly prone to understanding a non-racist message as a proxy for something else that is racist. This may have happened in 1964, when Goldwater, who neither supported segregation nor called for it, employed the term "states' rights," which to many whites in the Deep South implied the continuation of Jim Crow.

The problem comes when we try to extend this forward. Black and Black try to do this by showing that Nixon and Reagan crafted positions on busing, affirmative action, and welfare reform in a political climate in which many white voters doubted the virtues of preferential hiring, valued individual responsibility, and opposed busing as intrusive. To be condemned as racist "code," the GOP's positions would have to come across as proxies for these views -and in turn these views would have to be racist. The problem is that these views are not self-evidently racist. Many scholars simply treat them as if they were. Adding insult to injury, usually they don't even pause to identify when views like opposition to affirmative action would not be racist.

In effect, these critics want to have it both ways: they acknowledge that these views could in principle be non-racist (otherwise they wouldn't be a "code" for racism) but suggest they never are in practice (and so can be reliably treated as proxies for racism). The result is that their claims are non-falsifiable because they are tautological: these views are deemed racist because they are defined as racist. This amounts to saying that opposition to the policies favored by today's civil rights establishment is a valid indicator of racism. One suspects these theorists would, quite correctly, insist that people can disagree with the Israeli government without being in any way anti-Semitic. But they do not extend the same distinction to this issue. This is partisanship posturing as social science.

The Southern Strategy

This bias is evident also in how differently they treat the long Democratic dominance of the South. Carter and the Black brothers suggest that the accommodation of white racism penetrates to the very soul of modern conservatism. But earlier generations of openly segregationist Southerners voted overwhelmingly for Woodrow Wilson's and Franklin Roosevelt's Democratic Party, which relaxed its civil rights stances accordingly. This coalition passed much of the New Deal legislation that remains the basis of modern liberalism. So what does the segregationist presence imply for the character of liberalism at its electoral and legislative apogee? These scholars sidestep the question by simply not discussing it. This silence implies that racism and liberalism were simply strange political bedfellows, without any common values.

But the commonality, the philosophical link, is swiftly identified once the Democrats leave the stage. In study after study, authors say that "racial and economic conservatism" married white Southerners to the GOP after 1964. So whereas historically accidental events must have led racists to vote for good men like FDR, after 1964 racists voted their conscience. How convenient. And how easy it would be for, say, a libertarian conservative like Walter Williams to generate a counter-narrative that exposes statism as the philosophical link between segregation and liberalism's economic populism.

Yet liberal commentators commit a further, even more obvious, analytic error. They assume that if many former Wallace voters ended up voting Republican in the 1970s and beyond, it had to be because Republicans went to the segregationist mountain, rather than the mountain coming to them. There are two reasons to question this assumption. The first is the logic of electoral competition. Extremist voters usually have little choice but to vote for a major party which they consider at best the lesser of two evils, one that offers them little of what they truly desire. Segregationists were in this position after 1968, when Wallace won less than 9% of the electoral college and Nixon became president anyway, without their votes. Segregationists simply had very limited national bargaining power. In the end, not the Deep South but the GOP was the mountain.

Second, this was borne out in how little the GOP had to "offer," so to speak, segregationists for their support after 1968, even according to the myth's own terms. Segregationists wanted policies that privileged whites. In the GOP, they had to settle for relatively race-neutral policies: opposition to forced busing and reluctant coexistence with affirmative action. The reason these policies aren't plausible codes for real racism is that they aren't the equivalents of discrimination, much less of segregation.

Why did segregationists settle for these policies rather than continue to vote Democratic? The GOP's appeal was mightily aided by none other than the Democratic Party itself, which was lurching leftward in the 1970s, becoming, as the contemporary phrase had it, the party of "acid, amnesty, and abortion." Among other things, the Democrats absorbed a civil rights movement that was itself expanding, and thus diluting, its agenda to include economic redistributionism, opposition to the Vietnam War, and Black Power. The many enthusiasms of the new Democratic Party drove away suburban middle-class voters almost everywhere in the country, not least the South.

Given that trend, the GOP did not need to become the party of white solidarity in order to attract more voters. The fact that many former Wallace supporters ended up voting Republican says a lot less about the GOP than it does about segregationists' collapsing political alternatives. Kevin Phillips was hardly coy about this in his Emerging Republican Majority. He wrote in 1969 that Nixon did not "have to bid much ideologically" to get Wallace's electorate, given its limited power, and that moderation was far more promising for the GOP than anything even approaching a racialist strategy. While "the Republican Party cannot go to the Deep South"—meaning the GOP simply would not offer the policies that whites there seemed to desire most—"the Deep South must soon go to the national GOP," regardless.

Electoral Patterns

In all these ways, the gop appears as the national party of the middle-class, not of white solidarity. And it is this interpretation, and not the myth, that is supported by the voting results. The myth's proponents highlight, and distort, a few key electoral facts: Southern white backlash was most heated in the 1960s, especially in the Deep South. It was then and there that the GOP finally broke through in the South, on the strength of Goldwater's appeals to states' rights. Democrats never again won the votes of most Southern whites. So Goldwater is said to have provided the electoral model for the GOP.

But hidden within these aggregate results are patterns that make no sense if white solidarity really was the basis for the GOP's advance. These patterns concern which Southern votes the GOP attracted, and when. How did the GOP's Southern advance actually unfold? We can distinguish between two sub-regions. The Peripheral South—Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, and Arkansas—contained many growing, urbanizing "New South" areas and much smaller black populations. Race loomed less large in its politics. In the more rural, and poorer, Deep South—Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, and Louisiana —black communities were much larger, and racial conflict was much more acute in the 1950s and '60s. Tellingly, the presidential campaigns of Strom Thurmond, Goldwater, and Wallace all won a majority of white votes in the Deep South but lost the white vote in the Peripheral South.

The myth that links the GOP with racism leads us to expect that the GOP should have advanced first and most strongly where and when the politics of white solidarity were most intense. The GOP should have entrenched itself first among Deep South whites and only later in the Periphery. The GOP should have appealed at least as much, if not more, therefore, to the less educated, working-class whites who were not its natural voters elsewhere in the country but who were George Wallace's base. The GOP should have received more support from native white Southerners raised on the region's traditional racism than from white immigrants to the region from the Midwest and elsewhere. And as the Southern electorate aged over the ensuing decades, older voters should have identified as Republicans at higher rates than younger ones raised in a less racist era.

Each prediction is wrong. The evidence suggests that the GOP advanced in the South because it attracted much the same upwardly mobile (and non-union) economic and religious conservatives that it did elsewhere in the country.

Take presidential voting. Under FDR, the Democrats successfully assembled a daunting, cross-regional coalition of presidential voters. To compete, the GOP had to develop a broader national outreach of its own, which meant adding a Southern strategy to its arsenal. In 1952, Dwight Eisenhower took his campaign as national hero southward. He, like Nixon in 1960, polled badly among Deep South whites. But Ike won four states in the Peripheral South. This marked their lasting realignment in presidential voting. From 1952 to the Clinton years, Virginia reverted to the Democrats only once, Florida and Tennessee twice, and Texas—except when native-son LBJ was on the ballot—only twice, narrowly. Additionally, since 1952, North Carolina has consistently either gone Republican or come within a few percentage points of doing so.

In other words, states representing over half the South's electoral votes at the time have been consistently in play from 1952 on—since before Brown v. Board of Education, before Goldwater, before busing, and when the Republicans were the mainstay of civil rights bills. It was this which dramatically changed the GOP's presidential prospects. The GOP's breakthrough came in the least racially polarized part of the South. And its strongest supporters most years were "New South" urban and suburban middle- and upper-income voters. In 1964, as we've seen, Goldwater did the opposite: winning in the Deep South but losing the Peripheral South. But the pre-Goldwater pattern re-emerged soon afterward. When given the option in 1968, Deep South whites strongly preferred Wallace, and Nixon became president by winning most of the Peripheral South instead. From 1972 on, GOP presidential candidates won white voters at roughly even rates in the two sub-regions, sometimes slightly more in the Deep South, sometimes not. But by then, the Deep South had only about one-third of the South's total electoral votes; so it has been the Periphery, throughout, that provided the bulk of the GOP's Southern presidential support.


***
The GOP's congressional gains followed the same pattern. Of course, it was harder for Republicans to win in Deep South states where Democratic-leaning black electorates were larger. But even when we account for that, the GOP became the dominant party of white voters much earlier in the Periphery than it did in the Deep South. Before Goldwater, the GOP's few Southern House seats were almost all in the Periphery (as was its sole Senator—John Tower of Texas). Several Deep South House members were elected with Goldwater but proved ephemeral, as Black and Black note: "Republicans lost ground and stalled in the Deep South for the rest of the decade," while in the Periphery they "continued to make incremental gains." In the 1960s and '70s, nearly three-quarters of GOP House victories were in the Peripheral rather than the Deep South, with the GOP winning twice as often in urban as rural districts. And six of the eight different Southern Republican Senators elected from 1961 to 1980 were from the Peripheral South. GOP candidates tended consistently to draw their strongest support from the more educated, middle- and upper-income white voters in small cities and suburbs. In fact, Goldwater in 1964—at least his Deep South performance, which is all that was controversial in this regard—was an aberration, not a model for the GOP.

Writers who vilify the GOP's Southern strategy might be surprised to find that all of this was evident, at least in broad brush-strokes, to the strategy's early proponents. In his well-known book, Kevin Phillips drew the lesson that a strong appeal in the Deep South, on the model of 1964, had already entailed and would entail defeat for the GOP everywhere else, including in what he termed the Outer South. He therefore rejected such an approach. He emphasized that Ike and Nixon did far better in the Peripheral South. He saw huge opportunities in the "youthful middle-class" of Texas, Florida, and other rapidly growing and changing Sun Belt states, where what he called "acutely Negrophobe politics" was weakest, not strongest. He thus endorsed "evolutionary success in the Outer South" as the basis of the GOP's "principal party strategy" for the region, concluding that this would bring the Deep South along in time, but emphatically on the national GOP's terms, not the segregationists'.

The tension between the myth and voting data escalates if we consider change across time. Starting in the 1950s, the South attracted millions of Midwesterners, Northeasterners, and other transplants. These "immigrants" identified themselves as Republicans at higher rates than native whites. In the 1980s, up to a quarter of self-declared Republicans in Texas appear to have been such immigrants. Furthermore, research consistently shows that identification with the GOP is stronger among the South's younger rather than older white voters, and that each cohort has also became more Republican with time. Do we really believe immigrants (like George H.W. Bush, who moved with his family to Texas) were more racist than native Southerners, and that younger Southerners identified more with white solidarity than did their elders, and that all cohorts did so more by the 1980s and '90s than they had earlier?

In sum, the GOP's Southern electorate was not rural, nativist, less educated, afraid of change, or concentrated in the most stagnant parts of the Deep South. It was disproportionately suburban, middle-class, educated, younger, non-native-Southern, and concentrated in the growth-points that were, so to speak, the least "Southern" parts of the South. This is a very strange way to reincarnate George Wallace's movement.

The Decline of Racism

Timing may provide the greatest gap between the myth and the actual unfolding of events. Only in the 1980s did more white Southerners self-identify as Republicans than as Democrats, and only in the mid-1990s did Republicans win most Southern House seats and become competitive in most state legislatures. So if the GOP's strength in the South only recently reached its zenith, and if its appeal were primarily racial in nature, then the white Southern electorate (or at least most of it) would have to be as racist as ever. But surely one of the most important events in Southern political history is the long-term decline of racism among whites. The fact that these (and many other) books suggest otherwise shows that the myth is ultimately based on a demonization not of the GOP but of Southerners, who are indeed assumed to have Confederate flags in their hearts if not on their pickups. This view lends The Rise of Southern Republicans a schizophrenic nature: it charts numerous changes in the South, but its organizing categories are predicated on the unsustainable assumption that racial views remain intact.

What's more, the trend away from confident beliefs in white supremacy may have begun earlier than we often think. David Chappell, a historian of religion, argues that during the height of the civil rights struggle, segregationists were denied the crucial prop of religious legitimacy. Large numbers of pastors of diverse denominations concluded that there was no Biblical foundation for either segregation or white superiority. Although many pastors remained segregationist anyway, the official shift was startling: "Before the Supreme Court's [Brown v. Board] decision of 1954, the southern Presbyterians. . . and, shortly after the decision, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) overwhelmingly passed resolutions supporting desegregation and calling on all to comply with it peacefully. . . . By 1958 all SBC seminaries accepted black applicants." With considerable understatement, Chappell notes that "people—even historians—are surprised to hear this." Billy Graham, the most prominent Southern preacher, was openly integrationist.

The point of all this is not to deny that Richard Nixon may have invited some nasty fellows into his political bed. The point is that the GOP finally became the region's dominant party in the least racist phase of the South's entire history, and it got that way by attracting most of its votes from the region's growing and confident communities—not its declining and fearful ones. The myth's shrillest proponents are as reluctant to admit this as they are to concede that most Republicans genuinely believe that a color-blind society lies down the road of individual choice and dynamic change, not down the road of state regulation and unequal treatment before the law. The truly tenacious prejudices here are the mythmakers'.
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Post by Lalanae »

Not that I have a half hour to read that, but after skimming it, I have 2 things to say, well 3.

Using the FDR admin era as comparision to modern politics is not solid ground. The parties have changed to much to compare to how they used to be.

Secondly, who do KKK members vote for? Never Democrats!

With that said, I doubt anyone would say that ALL Republicans are racist, but there certainly is a reason why racist individuals vote Republican.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

We have plenty of democrats at our clan meetings.
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Post by Kaldaur »

We have plenty of democrats at our clan meetings.
Wow, that's hilarious. Tongue in cheek, or bold truth? You decide!
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kaldaur wrote:
We have plenty of democrats at our clan meetings.
Wow, that's hilarious. Tongue in cheek, or bold truth? You decide!
I'll give you a bit of truth. About ten years ago, a college buddy of mine who seemed to have evrything going for him, tried to help me get on the right path. He wanted me to become a Mason. He was goign to be my sponsor. He said it would be a good thing for me. Good discipline and great connections to help me get ahead, etc.

About a week before I was to start my initiation process, I spoke to a lady who's husband was a Mason and how they are almost 100% white organization and don't care for minorities at all. I felt very betrayed by someone who I thought I knew so well. Someone I put so much faith into. Someone I looked up to. I backed out of the Mason thing and didn't partake in his wedding the following week. In fact I just didn't even show up.

There is some truth for you. Will you remember it? Nope. You'll still call me a racist, because I choose not to speak in your pussified language and because you need to discredit everything I say.
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Post by kyoukan »

people will call you a racist for as long as you keep spewing your stupid racist garbage in every fucking post you make. the masons must be running low on memberships if they are accepting inbred fucking losers now.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

kyoukan wrote:people will call you a racist for as long as you keep spewing your stupid racist garbage in every fucking post you make. the masons must be running low on memberships if they are accepting inbred fucking losers now.
uh huh, brilliant as usual
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Image

See, even your avatar is racist. The white ying overpowering the black yang, opressing it into a position of servitude. It just never stops with you!

edit: Hooray for me forgetting to put image tags in at 3 in the morning!
Last edited by Dregor Thule on March 28, 2004, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/imag ... 0aecd8.jpg

See, even your avatar is racist. The white ying overpowering the black yang, opressing it into a position of servitude. It just never stops with you!
LOL

It's perfect balance. One is not more dominant than the other.
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Post by Trias »

if you squint your eyes the white definately appears to be dominating...you racist!
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Post by Arundel Pajo »

Trias wrote:if you squint your eyes the white definately appears to be dominating...you racist!

...it also appears to be casting the dark shadow of oppression upon the pristine background of a perfectly egalitarian society... :oops:
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Post by Keverian FireCry »

Of course not all Republicans are racist. Just the vast majority of them.
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Post by Voronwë »

not all of them are racists.

not all democrats are pinko commies either. its propaganda.

but Trent Lott and Strom Thurmand are(were) real people.

What was it that Thurmand said, "we won't let the nigger race into our churches, our swimming pools, or our schools?"

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Post by Brotha »

Lalanae wrote:Secondly, who do KKK members vote for? Never Democrats!
Maybe because Republicans don't pander to minorities every chance they get and don't favor a policy that is racist in favor of minorities (affirmative action)?
kyoukan wrote:people will call you a racist for as long as you keep spewing your stupid racist garbage in every fucking post you make.
I'll admit I haven't been reading every post, but Mid has never come off as a racist to me. Could you show me something he's said that's racist?
Voronwe wrote:but Trent Lott and Strom Thurmand are(were) real people.

What was it that Thurmand said, "we won't let the nigger race into our churches, our swimming pools, or our schools?"
Robert Byrd was a card carrying KKK member, if we're going to be naming people. And Trent Lott? You're branding him a racist because of what he said at that tribute or whatever to Thurmond? That's the best you can do?
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Post by Xzion »

what the fuck business does Trent have doing giving a tribute to thurmand? only tribute that racist peice of shit deserves is cerimonial "burn and piss on his ashes" number.

about Byrd, he was still a conservative, maybe not all racist people are republican but ALL racist people are conservative
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Post by Brotha »

Xzion wrote:maybe not all racist people are republican but ALL racist people are conservative
...what the fuck?
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Post by Xzion »

there are conservative democrates too...joe leiberman for example.
i dont know if hes racist (im sure he is to them pesky camel jockeys), but still a good example
and somewhat liberal republicans...see ah-nuld!
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Post by Lalanae »

Brotha wrote:
Xzion wrote:maybe not all racist people are republican but ALL racist people are conservative
...what the fuck?
what do you mean "what the fuck?" Racists are never liberals.
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

The reason I agree that racists are never liberals is because I know for a fact not a single white liberal family in America would be pissed if their Harvard grad daughter brought home her black fiance that she met in college.


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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Krimson Klaw wrote:The reason I agree that racists are never liberals is because I know for a fact not a single white liberal family in America would be pissed if their Harvard grad daughter brought home her black fiance that she met in college.


nothin but net.
Wow. Nice call.

And yes there are tons of racist liberals. I'm sitting accross from one right now. She is the pinnacle of liberal and she is always making snide remarks about blacks and latinos.
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Post by Voronwë »

racism is the basic form of tribalism, and we are all tribalistic, it is only a matter of degree.
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Post by Drasta »

republicans = racist, democrats = not so racist .... my one teacher at school was a mason and a republican
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Post by Xzion »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:The reason I agree that racists are never liberals is because I know for a fact not a single white liberal family in America would be pissed if their Harvard grad daughter brought home her black fiance that she met in college.


nothin but net.
Wow. Nice call.

And yes there are tons of racist liberals. I'm sitting accross from one right now. She is the pinnacle of liberal and she is always making snide remarks about blacks and latinos.
Then she is either joking around, i have to admit i make non-hateful jokes aimed towards my jewish or black friends and they do the same to me for being spanish, but none of us are racist to any degree and do so in good humor, hell your ass would probrably call Dave Chapelle a racist, since his show potrays black people in a negative light (heh).
that or she isnt a true liberal

In the 50's-60's who was fighting for equality??? LIBERALS
Who was supporting segregation???? CONSERVATIVES
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

I think Dave Chapelle is a racist :) I think his show, while funny, only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people. On the other hand, it is good to be able to laugh at our differences.

I agree the percentages are in favor of liberals when it comes to not being racist. Most definitely. But, it is just assanine to say liberals are NEVER racist.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think Dave Chapelle is a racist :) I think his show, while funny, only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people. On the other hand, it is good to be able to laugh at our differences.

I agree the percentages are in favor of liberals when it comes to not being racist. Most definitely. But, it is just assanine to say liberals are NEVER racist.
Ok, Dave Chapelle is not racist, at least towards blacks. That's a fucking preposterous statement to make. I don't know enough about him to make a claim on how he views other ethnicities, but to say he's racist to blacks is about as plausible as saying Bush hates Texans.
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Post by Voronwë »

Dave Chappelles skits use the negative stereotypes of black people not to illustrate the silliness of black people, but to illustrate the silliness of the stereotypes.
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Post by Xzion »

His wife is Asian and he has several white, black, and spanish comedians on his show regularly, in a way he makes fun of racist people (as seen in his black white supremisist skit) and points out there for lack of a better word, fucking ignorant stupidity in creating such steryotypes

The joke is on the racists, not the blacks or whites or anyone else.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think Dave Chapelle is a racist :) I think his show, while funny, only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people. On the other hand, it is good to be able to laugh at our differences.

I agree the percentages are in favor of liberals when it comes to not being racist. Most definitely. But, it is just assanine to say liberals are NEVER racist.
Ok, Dave Chapelle is not racist, at least towards blacks. That's a fucking preposterous statement to make. I don't know enough about him to make a claim on how he views other ethnicities, but to say he's racist to blacks is about as plausible as saying Bush hates Texans.
Who said he was racist against blacks? You need to learn the use of that word.


Voro, sometimes yes. Not all the time. Many skits are indicative of the worst behaviors of black people. Just like Springer shows many of the worst behaviors of white people.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think Dave Chapelle is a racist :) I think his show, while funny, only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people. On the other hand, it is good to be able to laugh at our differences.
I can't believe I'm teaching a grown American how the English language works. Actually, yes I can. Here, let me break it down to you how you said that you thought Dave Chapelle was racist towards blacks.

Statement: "I think Dave Chapelle is a racist"

Qualifying Statement: "... only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people."

Just in case this doesn't quite point it out to you. You said you think he's a racist. You followed that up by talking about how his show portrays negative perceptions about blacks. Anyone here, white, black, republican, liberal, young, old, all of them will agree that this was what your statement implied. If they try and deny that, then they're just ignorant of the language, or ignorant of intelligence.

Now, if you're flip-flopping on the statement, then fine. But don't try and say you didn't say it, even if it's not what you meant.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think Dave Chapelle is a racist :) I think his show, while funny, only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people. On the other hand, it is good to be able to laugh at our differences.
I can't believe I'm teaching a grown American how the English language works. Actually, yes I can. Here, let me break it down to you how you said that you thought Dave Chapelle was racist towards blacks.

Statement: "I think Dave Chapelle is a racist"

Qualifying Statement: "... only continues to show the worst perceptions about black people."

Just in case this doesn't quite point it out to you. You said you think he's a racist. You followed that up by talking about how his show portrays negative perceptions about blacks. Anyone here, white, black, republican, liberal, young, old, all of them will agree that this was what your statement implied. If they try and deny that, then they're just ignorant of the language, or ignorant of intelligence.

Now, if you're flip-flopping on the statement, then fine. But don't try and say you didn't say it, even if it's not what you meant.
LOL

Why the fuck would I say a black guy is racist towards blacks? If someone says a white guy is racist do they mean they think he hates white people, or the opposite?

Figure it out moron.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:LOL

Why the fuck would I say a black guy is racist towards blacks? If someone says a white guy is racist do they mean they think he hates white people, or the opposite?

Figure it out moron.
Why? Because I honestly, no joke, 100% believe you to be that stupid. And I don't think I'm wrong.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:LOL

Why the fuck would I say a black guy is racist towards blacks? If someone says a white guy is racist do they mean they think he hates white people, or the opposite?

Figure it out moron.
Why? Because I honestly, no joke, 100% believe you to be that stupid. And I don't think I'm wrong.
It's okay, I have been called worse than stupid. It's the beauty of difference. While my views scare you sometimes, yours scare me as well.
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Post by Jice Virago »

Don't forget the traditional methods used by notoriously conservative organizations that targeted legitimate civil rights movements in the last half century, also. The tactics used by the FBI to quell blacks were deplorable, to say the least. They threatened Martin Luther King and his family and deliberately green lighted cheap drug traffic into the inner cities to break down the core black community. In fairness, they used the same tactics to bring down the KKK too, but Hoover was openly reluctant to go after the KKK.

In rescent memory we have the fucking nut jobs who worked for Reagan who wanted to replace Jefferson on Mt Rushmore once it was proven he had mixed race descendants. There is also that nice university that all republican presidential campaigns begin at that forbids black students from dating white students. The fact that Reagan held off on Aids research because it was only originally killing blacks and gays is a nice indicator of their overall tone.

There are certainly racists in both parties, as surely as all humans are prejudiced to some degree, but having racists in your ranks is quite a different matter from having multiple Commander in Chiefs that supported racism, directly or indirectly. Overcomming personal prejudice and setting asside xenophobia is the mark of a free and enlightened society. Drafting homophobic legislation in the name of a superstition that is predated by both homosexuality AND the marriage institution it claims to be protecting is the hallmark of devisiveness and bigotry. Mark my words, the Christians are going to bring about a backlash on themselves that will end up lumping them in with all the other dangerous radical cults they like to openly mock.
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Post by Truant »

I like Midnyte better when he is not here.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Truant wrote:I like Midnyte better when he is not here.
You're not alone on that.
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Post by Arundel Pajo »

Dregor Thule wrote:about as plausible as saying Bush hates Texans.
Bush isn't really from Texas. At least not unless Connecticut is part of Texas now. "Hi, I'm not a cowboy, but I play on on TV." :roll:
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Post by Dregor Thule »

I stand corrected!
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

Sorry to get off topic, but I thought Chapelle was THE worst comedian on the planet, I mean flat out annoyingly UN-funny....until his comedy show came out. While I was right about his comic talent in the past (he was seriously so not funny) he brings me to freakin tears with laughter now. A comedic genious. Xzion hit it right on the button, his show mocks stereotypes, I honestly believe that. There are plenty of uncle tom sellouts that are racist against other blacks (I've been accused!) and plenty, and I mean plenty of blacks that are racist against whites, but Chapelle is not one of them.
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Post by Brotha »

Something else off topic, but on the subject of moving to Texas. I see tons of people with "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could" bumperstickers. Is this something unique to Texas or do other states have these (with their names obviously) as well?
Freedom of speech makes it much easier to spot the idiots.
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Post by Arundel Pajo »

Brotha wrote:Something else off topic, but on the subject of moving to Texas. I see tons of people with "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could" bumperstickers. Is this something unique to Texas or do other states have these (with their names obviously) as well?
You see an equal number of bumper stickers down here that say "Welcome to Texas, now get the hell out," too...

I think both sides of this stem from Texas' historically isolationist attitude.

Speaking strictly from my own experience, I know a lot of long-time Texans really are quite wary of any outsiders - especially any outsiders from the northeast. My family's been here since Texas first became its own country (and subsequently a state), and I've seen this attitude first hand in some small east Texas towns. Basically, their attitude out there is that if you weren't born here, you don't belong here. Texas is sort of unique among states in respect to its tribalism. It's kinda odd, too...your political lean doesn't matter, religion doesn't much matter (unless in NW Texas), race doesn't even matter *that* much in a lot of the state...but where you were born certainly does.

I think the "got here as fast as I could" bumper stickers arose in an attempt to make peace with that prevalent sentiment. Sorta like, "hey! we love your state, be nice to us!"
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Post by Truant »

Still on hijack.

Texans are a very proud people. They are proud of their history and their culture. Texas is the one state in the Union where the State flag flies at the same height as the Stars and Stripes. Texans wouldn't allow it any lower.

Arundel is right on though. Outside of major urban areas there are generally two categories of people. Natives, and other.
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