The Passion

Metaphantasus · Post by **Metaphantasus** » February 18, 2004, 3:08 pm

Any thoughts?

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » February 18, 2004, 3:23 pm

I will go see it the day it comes out in order to truly understand the purpose of Gibson's movie - not for the shock value or anything...

My history of the church teacher has encouraged us all to go see it, because she thinks it will be the closest to seeing the gosepls of the new testatment we'll ever see on the big screen

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » February 18, 2004, 6:29 pm

I am definately going to see it and not because of the controversy. Honestly, I don't understand why there is so much controversy surrounding it. It isn't like this is new territory.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » February 18, 2004, 6:54 pm

I HATE movies with subtitles....but I'll still probably go see this one

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » February 19, 2004, 1:37 am

I'm going to see it opening day first showing, got tickets for that time because all the others are sold out for like the next week. Many churches just rented out the theaters...

I watched the interview with Gibson, seem very real to me on this, he really put his heart and belifs into it. While his pre-vatican 2 practices leave me wondering a little, I can't wait to see the film. Already got my box of Puffs ready to go.

Marb

Burke · Post by **Burke** » February 19, 2004, 10:57 am

Already got my box of Puffs ready to go.

Gonna rub one out during the show?
I will chalk it up as spiritual extasy.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » February 19, 2004, 11:18 am

Words cannot adequately express how little of a fuck I give about this movie.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 19, 2004, 11:21 am

vn_Tanc wrote:Words cannot adequately express how little of a fuck I give about this movie.

/agree

I also don't like reading movies. They have books for that sort of thing.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » February 19, 2004, 6:19 pm

I enjoyed Crouch Tiger and it's subtitles but that movie had Kung Fu and cool stuff. This movie..hrm no I don't think so...

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » February 19, 2004, 7:15 pm

When is it going to be out? I'd like to see it and judge for myself, probably will wait till DVD though

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 19, 2004, 10:09 pm

Psyloche wrote:
vn_Tanc wrote:Words cannot adequately express how little of a fuck I give about this movie.
/agree

/agree also. Although it will give many a Christian woman great masterbatory material, getting it from that hunky Jesus.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 19, 2004, 10:49 pm

I'm for this movie just because it's entertaining seeing all the stink being raised by it. Plus maybe we'll get to see Jesus wielding a tomahawk covered in blood a la Patriot.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » February 20, 2004, 3:05 am

Got the Tissue / Puffs just in case... not sure exactly why but everyone I have seen on TV that was watching the movie was crying. Since it was show at Churchs you would think they knew what was going to happen an yet it still brough all those people to tears... just want to be ready personally as I'm sure it will be a very emotional ride...

Marb

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 20, 2004, 3:31 am

Dregor Thule wrote:I'm for this movie just because it's entertaining seeing all the stink being raised by it. Plus maybe we'll get to see Jesus wielding a tomahawk covered in blood a la Patriot.

bare-chested, don't forget bare-chested...

wearing a loin-cloth

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » February 20, 2004, 6:28 pm

Hey! No impure thoughts about Jesus!!

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 20, 2004, 6:34 pm

wearing a loin cloth and running, but in slo-mo

yeah

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » February 21, 2004, 8:28 pm

up on that cross

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » February 23, 2004, 1:59 pm

The controversy surrounding this movie seems to be coming from the hardcore jews who feel the movie unfairly portrays them as the "killers" of Christ. They would like to see this movie banned etc for fear it will cause an upsurge of anti-semitism.

Oddly enough it is ok to tell the holocaust story that "unfairly" portrays germans as the killers of jews. It is part of history regardless of whether you feel it is just a story.

I think this movie will be awesome and would see it just for the historical authenticity that Mel has put into this film.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » February 23, 2004, 2:58 pm

It'll be interesting to see this movie. As a Catholic with somewhat moderate views I'm somewhat uneasy with Opus Dei and fundamentalism in general.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » February 23, 2004, 4:27 pm

Wait.... Jesus dies?

THANKS FOR THE FUCKING SPOILER ASSHOLES!

I bet you assholes are like those people that were out in front of the theater when Titanic came out yelling that the boat sank at the end.

Pricks.

Revs · Post by **Revs** » February 24, 2004, 8:53 pm

The Passion Of The Christ aka The Gospel According To Mad Max

I'll wait for the DVD; no sense of reading subtitles in a movie theatre...

valryte · Post by **valryte** » February 25, 2004, 1:10 am

Like you really need to read the subtitles to know what's going on...

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » February 25, 2004, 4:53 pm

Just got back from this movie.

wow

Burke · Post by **Burke** » February 25, 2004, 5:20 pm

Lethal Passion: Mad Christ Beyond Golgotha-Dome

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » February 25, 2004, 6:42 pm

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ThePass ... t-1129941/

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 7:07 pm

I'm kinda interested to see it.

I still think that most of the controversy is just stirred up by the makers of the movie.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » February 25, 2004, 7:27 pm

no the controversy is there for a reason. i am not a racist man by any means, but after seeing that i definately could see where people would be pissed at the jews. that movie was a lot for me to take and i have been to church all of 5 times on sunday morning. just about everyone was in tears during that movie, even the kids (yes, parents brought their 4 year olds). it is just emotionally draining, and while they don't pin the blame squarely on the jews, they were the ones who pushed for it.

to give you an idea on the movie, take the last 30 minutes of braveheart and turn it into a 2 hour movie. oh yeah, and spend half of it watching jesus get tortured.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » February 25, 2004, 7:53 pm

Atokal wrote:The controversy surrounding this movie seems to be coming from the hardcore jews who feel the movie unfairly portrays them as the "killers" of Christ. They would like to see this movie banned etc for fear it will cause an upsurge of anti-semitism.

Oddly enough it is ok to tell the holocaust story that "unfairly" portrays germans as the killers of jews. It is part of history regardless of whether you feel it is just a story.

I think this movie will be awesome and would see it just for the historical authenticity that Mel has put into this film.

Woah Toke, slow down. You're trying to tell me that the writings in the bible (which christians can even agree on between themselves) has ANYTHING to do with documented footage. You know, info w/ actual documentation and not writings as the result of a horribly twisted game of telephone.

Man, I like bullshitting w/ you ingame, but that is just a horrible, horrible analogy.

Now if this movie anti-semetic, what can I say. I really just feel it's ridiculous that someone treats the "Gospels" as a fact. People who think it's "fact" will think we're crazy, but then, if you're not in our position, how the hell would you know really? People are going to hate the Jews anyway, it's something I've learned to live with, just like any other minority. Except, not everyone knows they're speaking to a Jew unlike other minorities so things slip out on a regular basis. I had no clue how hated my religion was until I went to college and had to come face to face with people who had zero exposure to it.

Fucking factual things like the holocaust compared some writings of over two thousand years old with the corrupt literacy of that time thrown in for good measure, holy shit

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » February 25, 2004, 8:27 pm

I just got back... very powerful and moving but also very bloody.

Not for small children, and there isn't a lot of sermons, so someone who isn't familiar with the story, might be a little lost at times...

However I would give it a Thumbs Up for how much it moved me as a Christian. Others throughout history have tried to help people better understand the humanity of Christ (Niko Kazantzakis comes to mind) in different ways. The way His relationship is protrayed with His mother and others is what is truly moving in this film. The actress playing Mary has few lines really but her expressions would put her up for an Oscar in my book.

Marb

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » February 25, 2004, 9:29 pm

Definately an impressive and stunning movie. The only time I remember a theater as quiet as this was during Schindler's List and I saw that with a half full theater. The place was packed today. A very moving portrayal of the Gospel. I think Gibson handled the material very true to the source.

As far as the anti-semitic tones, I didn't see it. What I saw were some Jews portrayed as wanting Christ killed. I also Jews who were wanting it to be stopped and him saved, even members of the Pharisees. What this conveyed to me was that there were a group of powerful and influential Jewish leaders who wanted him killed for certain reasons. They were by no means the only viewpoint but they had more power and were able to push their agenda. I don't see fault being laid on Jews as a whole and the movie didn't portray that.

Kwonryu DragonFist · February 26, 2004, 3:41 am

Is this movie starring Jesus Martinez from Vatos Locos?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 26, 2004, 4:27 am

and let me tell you something pendejo....

Kwonryu DragonFist · February 26, 2004, 4:34 am

Wont see the movie, but the SoundTrack is SUPERB!

a_guide · Post by **a_guide** » February 26, 2004, 4:35 am

The actress playing Mary is Persephone from the Matrix movies, her name is Monica Belluci and she is gorgeous.

I heard she also rcently played the role of a woman who was anally raped... quite a switch to go from that to Mother of Christ

Kwonryu DragonFist · February 26, 2004, 4:47 am

Quite a Switch indeed!

Monica Belluci roxxorz! Still, not an interesting movie, but teh soundtrack is a Must !

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 26, 2004, 12:04 pm

Pahreyia wrote:Wait.... Jesus dies?

THANKS FOR THE FUCKING SPOILER ASSHOLES!

I bet you assholes are like those people that were out in front of the theater when Titanic came out yelling that the boat sank at the end.

Pricks.

I can't say why, but this made me blow my water that I was drinking out my nose and all over my monitor and keyboard.. Made pretty designs on the monitor though. Lil' sparklies.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » February 26, 2004, 12:04 pm

Charles Paul Freund had an interesting article over on reason noting Gibson's films links to the medieval theatre tradition.

http://www.reason.com/links/links022304.shtml

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » February 26, 2004, 4:31 pm

a_guide wrote:The actress playing Mary is Persephone from the Matrix movies, her name is Monica Belluci and she is gorgeous.

I heard she also rcently played the role of a woman who was anally raped... quite a switch to go from that to Mother of Christ

Actually, she plays Mary Magdalene, not Mary, the mother of Christ.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 26, 2004, 6:18 pm

Jesus Christ...couldn't they just sell a video on TV like the Mormons?

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » February 26, 2004, 6:37 pm

This is the catholics we're talking about here, remember? Grand and guilt-ridden.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 26, 2004, 8:24 pm

The Jews in the first century were not allowed to bear arms, etc... Most of the forms of justice were carried out by the Romans, except for some religious matters. But if a rabbinic law on an issue such as blasphemy required a penalty of death, the Romans didn't allow it. "Roman Order" being that they leave the "killing" for themselves.

The thing is Jesus' words pissed off the religious leaders so much that they had to have blood. He made himself equal to God, so to them it was blasphemy, which deserved "death". But since they couldn't kill him themselves, they brought "political" accusations to the Romans; valid accusations as well. Even Christ made no argument, but the accusations were not enough for a death penalty. When Pontius Pilate listened, he only found it amusing. Pilate did have authority over life and death, that's one of the things governors did, but Jesus most definitely was pissing off the Jewish elite. He was anti-establishment, something the wealthy Jewish leaders didn't care for. These guys were also conservative, while Jesus would have been fanatically liberal. In short, he was a threat to their authority when he started getting attention.

Pilate, being the Roman that he was, he still kept Jesus around, and when the Jewish Passover came, he made a joke, and gave the Jews two options for a Passover "Gift". Release Jesus the Carpenter and "King of the Jews", or release Barabbas (think Che 30 A.D.). The Jews picked Barabbas of course... As almost anybody would. And they fucked up, just like all humans do. The gospels record that "the Jews" (meaning, some/many of them likely instigated by the Jewish leadership) wanted his head. They had bunches of violations against Jewish law, and repeatedly were trying to entrap him into more violations. Pilate had power over executions, but he also had another important responsibility - to keep the Jewish peace. Revolts were not looked upon favorably, and the leaders had the power to help hold the Jewish masses in check, or unleash them. When they wanted Jesus executed, and got fairly hot over it, Pilate was under obligation from Rome to do so. Pilate probably didn't care a whole lot. He was a mean son of a bitch who really disliked Jews to start with. To throw all the blame either way would be a mistake, however; the Jewish leaders didn't like Jesus, and Pilate didn't give a damn at best, so the deck was stacked.

If people want to read into the gospel anti-Semitism, that's exactly what they'll see. But in all truth, it's not a "Jewish" thing; it's an "Ego" thing. The "Jews" in question are almost anybody. When presented with the reality of it, there are few people who can give in to guy who says he's "God". Some can only because it was 2000 years ago, or because they were told to, but few of them hardly realize how outrageous Christ's demands really are. If he was present this day, in their face, even a lot of believers would be the same as any of those Jews. He'd no longer be the pie in the sky, but just a man making himself equal to God. That's why "faith" is the central tenet: Not because it's easy as some like it, but because it's completely ridiculous. The Jewish priesthood only fucked up if Jesus was the real deal, an idea that the Jewish faith holds to be untrue to this day. If Christ wasn't legit, then he committed pretty much the gravest crime against God that there is, and according to religious law (that was strictly adhered to at the time), death is basically the minimum acceptable punishment for falsely claiming divinity. There's no reason to assume that the Jewish priesthood was behaving in any way contrary to their own rules. Judging them according to what would have been a completely alien standard at the time is absurd.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » February 26, 2004, 8:34 pm

today one of my co-workers who's got "i love jesus" propaganda all over her cubicle, car, etc. was going on and on about this movie and told us all it was subtitled in "arabic."

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 26, 2004, 9:22 pm

Sunserae wrote:today one of my co-workers who's got "i love jesus" propaganda all over her cubicle, car, etc. was going on and on about this movie and told us all it was subtitled in "arabic."

Did you proceed to pelt her with pencils and all gather around in a circle and kick her while she lay in the fetal position?

I sure hope so.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 27, 2004, 9:06 am

It's been a while but this one needs a Mr. Cranky review.

The last few lines are quite good.

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/passionofthechrist.html

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » February 27, 2004, 1:23 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Atokal wrote:The controversy surrounding this movie seems to be coming from the hardcore jews who feel the movie unfairly portrays them as the "killers" of Christ. They would like to see this movie banned etc for fear it will cause an upsurge of anti-semitism.

Oddly enough it is ok to tell the holocaust story that "unfairly" portrays germans as the killers of jews. It is part of history regardless of whether you feel it is just a story.

I think this movie will be awesome and would see it just for the historical authenticity that Mel has put into this film.
Woah Toke, slow down. You're trying to tell me that the writings in the bible (which christians can even agree on between themselves) has ANYTHING to do with documented footage. You know, info w/ actual documentation and not writings as the result of a horribly twisted game of telephone.

Man, I like bullshitting w/ you ingame, but that is just a horrible, horrible analogy.

Now if this movie anti-semetic, what can I say. I really just feel it's ridiculous that someone treats the "Gospels" as a fact. People who think it's "fact" will think we're crazy, but then, if you're not in our position, how the hell would you know really? People are going to hate the Jews anyway, it's something I've learned to live with, just like any other minority. Except, not everyone knows they're speaking to a Jew unlike other minorities so things slip out on a regular basis. I had no clue how hated my religion was until I went to college and had to come face to face with people who had zero exposure to it.

Fucking factual things like the holocaust compared some writings of over two thousand years old with the corrupt literacy of that time thrown in for good measure, holy shit

My whole life I have been a supporter of telling the story of the holocaust. I have looked with scorn and anger upon the people who would try and suppress the story of the suffering that all those people endured during WWII.

However, I feel that the major reason that this film might inspire anti-semetic feelings is because of the lengths the Jewish community went to trying to edit, ban, suppress the telling of a story important to Christians the whole world over.

Do I believe the gospels? Yes I do. Do I think it is time that this story was told in a high budget, high profile manner? Absolutely.

The thing is Chidoro that faith in Christ is just that faith which is described in the bible as;

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

People who are Christians have "faith" that the gospels are accurate, factual representations of what occurred during the time of Christ. It is no less real to them than more recent historical events are to the rest of the planet.

My analogy could have been better I suppose.

Cheers

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » February 27, 2004, 2:02 pm

Chidoro, you'd be surprised how much of history is as slanted, or even more slanted than the gospels ever could be. What is "fact" these days is taken for granted. "Fact" back then was written by the conquerers, murderers, envoys of god, holy witnesses and heros of a hundred battles.

To discount the gospels on the basis of literary liberties or small historical inaccuracies is a completely base approach to critiquing historical documents. It's borderline immature in that you aren't even taking the time to try to learn what is true in the writings.

I'm not a believer in the gospels. I think they make great moral stories to tell your kids, but that passage that Toker quoted is one of the few that I do know by memory and have one of the largest problems with.

Let's not judge one set of writings as complete bunk, especially when there's 4 written accounts of practically the same event, which leads me to believe that there is some factual basis in what is written there. Instead, try to see what could be factual, and what is farse. Take responsibility for helping to better our understanding of the past instead of throwing out the only records we have of anything prior to photographs and television.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 27, 2004, 3:17 pm

The point I was making with the post I made that apparently no one read was:

1. The Jews probably were responsible for the killing of Jesus.
2. The Jews did what they absolutely should have done with an individual claiming to be God, based on their own laws.
3. Without the torture and death of Jesus, his story wouldn't have been as remarkable, or profound, the resurrection wouldn't have been possible, and arguably the divinity, him suffering for our sins, and about a billion other nuances that the entire Christian faith is based on WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE.
4. Finally, the key point... With his dying breath, he forgave, and begged his father to forgive, EVERYONE. Including the Jews. Including you and I (if you believe in that).

Bottom line is that if you believe it was the Jews, or the Romans that killed Jesus, Jesus had to die for everything to work, and the Jews/Romans weren't doing anything they shouldn't have done in the first place. It's completely baseless to attach any sort of modern responsibility/accountability to the Jews for the death of Jesus.

Or put more bluntly as a friend of mine said:

Now the part that EVERYONE seems to have forgotten:
HE FORGAVE THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS TO HIM, AND BEGGED GOD TO DO THE SAME.

People who hate anyone because of Jesus are kind of missing the entire fucking point, and shouldn't DARE call themselves Christians.

Edit: Because typing it HARD.

Post by **Sylvus** » February 27, 2004, 3:29 pm

Pahreyia wrote:Let's not judge one set of writings as complete bunk, especially when there's 4 written accounts of practically the same event, which leads me to believe that there is some factual basis in what is written there. Instead, try to see what could be factual, and what is farse. Take responsibility for helping to better our understanding of the past instead of throwing out the only records we have of anything prior to photographs and television.

If the 4 accounts match accurately, remember to ask yourself what language they were originally written in and who translated them for you. Even if we assume that all four of them wrote an impartial, factual account of the life of the son of God, I absolutely cannot trust that everyone in the last 2000 years preserved those accounts without changing them to help fit their agenda. Pretty much all of Christianity derived from the same branch, and at one point religion and politics went hand in hand. Show me a politician who is entirely without corruption and I'll show you a woman who got pregnant without having sex! Okay, maybe that's a bad example.

While I definitely agree that not everything in the Bible is bunk, I think that is more than enough reason to ignore any specific minutiae in the Bible and focus on the overall themes of loving your fellow man and turning the other cheek and so on. I highly doubt that God is a micromanager, and the inability for most organized religions to recognize that is what I find so off-putting.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » February 27, 2004, 6:01 pm

I kind of want to see it. It's interesting, I bet this movie has made bank just off the controversy surrounding it. Without the controversy it would have made half as much money.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » February 27, 2004, 7:10 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Pahreyia wrote:Let's not judge one set of writings as complete bunk, especially when there's 4 written accounts of practically the same event, which leads me to believe that there is some factual basis in what is written there. Instead, try to see what could be factual, and what is farse. Take responsibility for helping to better our understanding of the past instead of throwing out the only records we have of anything prior to photographs and television.
If the 4 accounts match accurately, remember to ask yourself what language they were originally written in and who translated them for you. Even if we assume that all four of them wrote an impartial, factual account of the life of the son of God, I absolutely cannot trust that everyone in the last 2000 years preserved those accounts without changing them to help fit their agenda. Pretty much all of Christianity derived from the same branch, and at one point religion and politics went hand in hand. Show me a politician who is entirely without corruption and I'll show you a woman who got pregnant without having sex! Okay, maybe that's a bad example.

Greek and it was mostly the clergy that kept the written record of the bible. The last time I spoke with a pretty devout christian friend, he mentioned that archeologists had found something like a 4th edition gospel scroll. It's not line 1, but it's old enough and close enough to consider the current trtanslations as pretty much reliable.