This guy I train with who also has his personal trainer degree recomended Creatine to me when I talked to him about changes I could make in my diet to help me gain muscle mass faster.
Appearently, it isn't a steroid ?
i'm hoping some of the athletes on this can dig me up some information on it..thanks a lot.
Creatine
Moderator: TheMachine
Creatine Monohydrate is a mass builder, but if you use it, make damn sure you do it right.
There should be very detailed instructions about how to take it. You start with a loading cycle which actually involves taking creatine for a number of weeks and not working out. Once that is over, you take it before your workouts and it will deffinitely build muscle mass.
I took it while I played college football and threw shotput as a lifting supplement even though I did not need any more muscle mass and I felt like it helped a decent amount.
There have been comments that it can cause aggressive behavior etc., but it has never been shown medically and I beat up the same number of kids after taking it than I did before.
Just be sure that you are serious about lifting when you take it or all it will be is a fat builder. Don't just take it and have a light workout, you really need to bust your butt to make it worth it especially given that the shit is expensive.
Teh Stan
There should be very detailed instructions about how to take it. You start with a loading cycle which actually involves taking creatine for a number of weeks and not working out. Once that is over, you take it before your workouts and it will deffinitely build muscle mass.
I took it while I played college football and threw shotput as a lifting supplement even though I did not need any more muscle mass and I felt like it helped a decent amount.
There have been comments that it can cause aggressive behavior etc., but it has never been shown medically and I beat up the same number of kids after taking it than I did before.
Just be sure that you are serious about lifting when you take it or all it will be is a fat builder. Don't just take it and have a light workout, you really need to bust your butt to make it worth it especially given that the shit is expensive.
Teh Stan
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noel
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It's been a while since I read extensively on creatine. I looked in an old issue of Men's Health, and I think I can give you the information you need.
Creatine is not a steroid. Actually, creatine monohydrate is a supplement that serves as an energy reserve for muscle cells. Muscular contraction is powered by the breakdown of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to ADP (adenosine diphosphate). When all the ATP is broken down, creatine phosphate in the muscle donates a phosphate group to ADP, and further energy reactions can occur. Creatine monohydrate is a precursor to creatine phosphate. By supplementing with CM, CP levels in muscle apparently are maximized, and more muscular work can occur, since there are greater energy reserves to use.
Creatine can also help with resistance training by bloating the muscle with creatine rich fluid. This allows for greater leverage and requires the muscle to move less and lift more weight. While this may seem kind of trivial, some researchers today think that one of the stimulating factors of steroid use is water retention. Anabolic steroids may actually work in part because of cellular fluid retention in the muscles. The swelling action and the related stretching of the cells may in and of itself cause a reaction which stimulates the muscle cells to grow. So in some respects creatine might work in a manner similar to steroids.
The good: Many people report increasing their lean muscle mass between 6 and 10 lbs while using CM, though gains seem to stop after that point. CM is nontoxic, even in large amounts.
The bad: Some people report symptoms including headaches, cramping, clenched teeth, and the sound of blood rushing in their ears while using CM. Creatines effects on blood pressure are an open question. Since it has the effect of fluid retention in muscle, it might increase blood pressure in the same way high sodium levels do, but this has not been established or refuted. Also, it is fairly expensive. I can't remember the exact prices, but I remember I was in GNC once, and the price per serving when compared to the meal replacement I use from time to time was pretty high.
I personally do not recommend creatine to friends who are doing a weight training program. With a diverse but focused diet, you can honestly get everything you need. There haven't been any truly longterm studies that look at what effect flooding the body (which is exactly what you do when you take creatine) with a chemical that it produces naturally will do to you over time. Additionally, the potential side effects as well as the mediocre results 6-10 lbs. isn't really that much. For endurance athletes; runners, cyclists, mountain bikers, and triathaletes, creatine isn't an option at all because of the additional weight you'll put on from liquid retention.
Then again, I don't know much about exercise according to some people on this board, so you might want to disregard everything I just said.
Creatine is not a steroid. Actually, creatine monohydrate is a supplement that serves as an energy reserve for muscle cells. Muscular contraction is powered by the breakdown of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to ADP (adenosine diphosphate). When all the ATP is broken down, creatine phosphate in the muscle donates a phosphate group to ADP, and further energy reactions can occur. Creatine monohydrate is a precursor to creatine phosphate. By supplementing with CM, CP levels in muscle apparently are maximized, and more muscular work can occur, since there are greater energy reserves to use.
Creatine can also help with resistance training by bloating the muscle with creatine rich fluid. This allows for greater leverage and requires the muscle to move less and lift more weight. While this may seem kind of trivial, some researchers today think that one of the stimulating factors of steroid use is water retention. Anabolic steroids may actually work in part because of cellular fluid retention in the muscles. The swelling action and the related stretching of the cells may in and of itself cause a reaction which stimulates the muscle cells to grow. So in some respects creatine might work in a manner similar to steroids.
The good: Many people report increasing their lean muscle mass between 6 and 10 lbs while using CM, though gains seem to stop after that point. CM is nontoxic, even in large amounts.
The bad: Some people report symptoms including headaches, cramping, clenched teeth, and the sound of blood rushing in their ears while using CM. Creatines effects on blood pressure are an open question. Since it has the effect of fluid retention in muscle, it might increase blood pressure in the same way high sodium levels do, but this has not been established or refuted. Also, it is fairly expensive. I can't remember the exact prices, but I remember I was in GNC once, and the price per serving when compared to the meal replacement I use from time to time was pretty high.
I personally do not recommend creatine to friends who are doing a weight training program. With a diverse but focused diet, you can honestly get everything you need. There haven't been any truly longterm studies that look at what effect flooding the body (which is exactly what you do when you take creatine) with a chemical that it produces naturally will do to you over time. Additionally, the potential side effects as well as the mediocre results 6-10 lbs. isn't really that much. For endurance athletes; runners, cyclists, mountain bikers, and triathaletes, creatine isn't an option at all because of the additional weight you'll put on from liquid retention.
Then again, I don't know much about exercise according to some people on this board, so you might want to disregard everything I just said.
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noel
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Sorry Stan (I miss you btw), I was going for the 4 Cs. Clear, concise, correct and complete.Abelard wrote:also how would i go about getting rid of this water retention?
Abelard,
You can't get rid of the liquid retention, that's a byproduct of using creatine in the first place.
No offense intended, but you're using the term 'muscle memory' completely wrong. 'Muscle memory' is a term you use to describe your body doing a specific action in a very specific way until it becomes second nature. Good examples of muscle memory include swinging at a baseball, throwing a fastball, the approach of a springboard diver, the stroke of a swimmer, the pedalstroke of a cyclist. All of these things generally speaking have to be done the exact same way over and over again for efficiency, accuracy, and power.
You won't completely lose your results. What you will do, is lose some weight from the liquid retention, but not the muscle fibers you built during your program.
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ah word, no offense taken..well what i meant was like you know how your body remembers muscles built before so to speak..like you put on muscle faster to the point of where you left off with your training at which time it slows down again..
so I would keep most of the muscle I built up but I would lose the water retention?
so I would keep most of the muscle I built up but I would lose the water retention?
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noel
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It depends on a lot of things, but most likely yes.
I still don't recommend you take it at all. Like I said... creatine is naturally created in the body, and they have no idea what the long-term affects will be from flooding the body with something that's already there.
I still don't recommend you take it at all. Like I said... creatine is naturally created in the body, and they have no idea what the long-term affects will be from flooding the body with something that's already there.
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noel
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More protein, calcium, potassium, and water.
Also... make sure you're taking in enough calories. Too many people on weight training programs don't eat enough. Cut fat out of your diet, and eat enough to sustain your weight with a diet rich in protein.
Also... make sure you're taking in enough calories. Too many people on weight training programs don't eat enough. Cut fat out of your diet, and eat enough to sustain your weight with a diet rich in protein.
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noel
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It's beyond the scope of this discussion (i.e. would be too specific to you, and take too much information exchange), but a key thing to remember is that recovery is where you make your gains. You want to make sure you're eating within 1-2 hours of finishing your exercising. Peanut butter is good for a snack, but remember it's a lot of sugar. Tuna is good, lunchmeat is cheap, but don't make sandwiches that are full of fat by using white bread, regular mayo/miracle whip/oil/bacon/etc.
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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1-3 gallons of water is ok Abe!
Creatine monohydrate supplementation requires a lot of water.
Creatine is all about cell volumization.
Making sure your cells are completely hydrated helps with the volumization process. NO2, a hemodilator, requires water. Many other supplements require water as a transport and a flushing method.
Dont drink too much water though! You can overdose on water!
Its called hyponatraemic encephalopathy.
I use Creatine OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS! It aint a Steroid!
Use it! Its great!
Remember Abe! The Goal....Lats like a Manta-Ray!
The Weights are paper...PAPER!!!
Eat every three hours!
For a sporting person, they usually measure that protein intake a day should be 1.8 x your bodyweight(in kilos).
So if you weigh 75 x 1.8 = 135 grams of protein a day.
This is merely for musclepreservation!
You want Lats like manta-ray yes?
I say eat protein 3 x your bodyweight! We are building now, not just maintaining!
For you specifically Abe, 240 g Protein a day! If i remember your bodyweight correctly that is!
Good luck!
Creatine monohydrate supplementation requires a lot of water.
Creatine is all about cell volumization.
Making sure your cells are completely hydrated helps with the volumization process. NO2, a hemodilator, requires water. Many other supplements require water as a transport and a flushing method.
Dont drink too much water though! You can overdose on water!
Its called hyponatraemic encephalopathy.
I use Creatine OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS! It aint a Steroid!
Use it! Its great!
Remember Abe! The Goal....Lats like a Manta-Ray!
The Weights are paper...PAPER!!!
Eat every three hours!
For a sporting person, they usually measure that protein intake a day should be 1.8 x your bodyweight(in kilos).
So if you weigh 75 x 1.8 = 135 grams of protein a day.
This is merely for musclepreservation!
You want Lats like manta-ray yes?
I say eat protein 3 x your bodyweight! We are building now, not just maintaining!
For you specifically Abe, 240 g Protein a day! If i remember your bodyweight correctly that is!
Good luck!
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Keverian FireCry
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One of my friends used that and didn't know that when you use it, you need to spend a lot time lifting and building your muscles. He was too lazy and became a fatass faster than anyone.
I used it in sophomore year to build some muscle mass for lacross. I was always very skinny till then. I didn't use it as much as some people as I just didn't feel good putting things like that into my body, but I admit it did help.
I gained about 10 lbs of muscle mass over that year and it helped me in that sport because it is very physical. After the 10lbs extra mass I didn't really feel I needed it anymore and was glad to be off it, for the same reasons I stated above.
I used it in sophomore year to build some muscle mass for lacross. I was always very skinny till then. I didn't use it as much as some people as I just didn't feel good putting things like that into my body, but I admit it did help.
I gained about 10 lbs of muscle mass over that year and it helped me in that sport because it is very physical. After the 10lbs extra mass I didn't really feel I needed it anymore and was glad to be off it, for the same reasons I stated above.
Last edited by Keverian FireCry on January 14, 2004, 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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I am going to use Creatine until i can quote Teh Hulk!
Hulk once said... Hulk is so Strong that Hulk's muscles have muscles!
Really though, Creatine is great to use(combined with protein-shakes) when you build mass in the bulking season!
Dont forget to pay your dues in the gym though, or you'll add OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of teh wrong mass!
Hulk once said... Hulk is so Strong that Hulk's muscles have muscles!
Really though, Creatine is great to use(combined with protein-shakes) when you build mass in the bulking season!
Dont forget to pay your dues in the gym though, or you'll add OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of teh wrong mass!
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Siji
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A. Make sure to use a quality creatine product.
B. Make sure to drink lots of water to keep your kidneys safe
Creatine is possibly the most researched supplement in existance. If there were any troubles caused by using it properly, you'd be able to find about it on any body building message board around.. That said, when I used it, I didn't notice enough of a change to warrant the cost of keeping it in my list of daily supplements.
The loading phase is a marketing ploy, don't bother. And nowhere other than the above message have I ever heard that you're not supposed to workout during the so called "loading phase". That's untrue as well.
Your body creates creatine, but not in nearly the same quantity of taking it as a supplement. When you take it as a supplement, if I remember correctly, your body will no longer generate it since it's already present. However don't worry, as soon as you stop supplementing with it, your body resumes creation..
If you take it, cycle it every couple of months.. 2-3 months on, a month off..
Good workouts, good cardio, high quality protein and EFA oil supplements will do more for you than creatine to give you a better body.
Best (IMHO) EFA Oil Supplement
http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend.htm
Great tasting/High quality Protein Powder
http://www.syntrax.com/Articles/moreinf ... x_choc.htm
It's a protein blend as opposed to straight Whey, so it's also great to take before bed.
Great tasting/High quality Whey Protein Powder
http://www.thevitaminshoppe.com/browse/ ... uID=229652
Comes in several "fruity" flavors. Great to eat plain even like Pixie Stix. Great for right before/after a workout.
If you're into the thermogenic type stuff, a pretty good non-ephedra (since it's banned now..) product is VPX's Redline. Comes in a gel form.
http://www.thevitaminshoppe.com/browse/ ... uID=232585
Have a good protein within an hour of a workout. Don't eat for an hour after cardio. Stay hydrated.
B. Make sure to drink lots of water to keep your kidneys safe
Creatine is possibly the most researched supplement in existance. If there were any troubles caused by using it properly, you'd be able to find about it on any body building message board around.. That said, when I used it, I didn't notice enough of a change to warrant the cost of keeping it in my list of daily supplements.
The loading phase is a marketing ploy, don't bother. And nowhere other than the above message have I ever heard that you're not supposed to workout during the so called "loading phase". That's untrue as well.
Your body creates creatine, but not in nearly the same quantity of taking it as a supplement. When you take it as a supplement, if I remember correctly, your body will no longer generate it since it's already present. However don't worry, as soon as you stop supplementing with it, your body resumes creation..
If you take it, cycle it every couple of months.. 2-3 months on, a month off..
Good workouts, good cardio, high quality protein and EFA oil supplements will do more for you than creatine to give you a better body.
Best (IMHO) EFA Oil Supplement
http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend.htm
Great tasting/High quality Protein Powder
http://www.syntrax.com/Articles/moreinf ... x_choc.htm
It's a protein blend as opposed to straight Whey, so it's also great to take before bed.
Great tasting/High quality Whey Protein Powder
http://www.thevitaminshoppe.com/browse/ ... uID=229652
Comes in several "fruity" flavors. Great to eat plain even like Pixie Stix. Great for right before/after a workout.
If you're into the thermogenic type stuff, a pretty good non-ephedra (since it's banned now..) product is VPX's Redline. Comes in a gel form.
http://www.thevitaminshoppe.com/browse/ ... uID=232585
Have a good protein within an hour of a workout. Don't eat for an hour after cardio. Stay hydrated.
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masteen
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I and my old roommate used to take creatine back in college (when I used to work out hardcore). I didn't notice much difference, but he did. I think that as a skinny guy, his muscles needed the extra energy that I (as a fatbody) didn't. He eventually quit taking it because he started getting nosebleeds during workouts.
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noel
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I agreed with all of your post except for that. What are you basing this on?Siji wrote:Don't eat for an hour after cardio. Stay hydrated.
From Chris Carmichael's The Ultimate Ride:
I have always been told that it is critical to eat/replenish protein and carbohydrates as soon after working out as possible, and definitely within a two hour window. In this matter there is no difference betweeen a cardiovascular workout and a weight-lifting workout. If you do either workout, your depleting your bodies energy stores, and it's necessary to replenish that as quickly as possible so that you don't negatively affect tomorrow's workout. If you choose not to eat after a cardiovascular workout, you're doing nothing but lowering your energy level overall which could have a negative affect on your weight-training.Paying attention to what you eat after a training session or race is equally important because it helps to replenish depleted muscle glycogen and shorten recovery time. Research has shown that muscle glycogen stores can decline on consecutive days of training if you don't pay attention to post-exercise carbohydrate and protein consumption. Consequently adequate glycogen stores are essential not only for optimizing performance during the competition, but also for maintaining the quality of training. By concentrating on eating high carbohydrate foods after hard training or competition, you will be able to recover more quickly and be ready to train again sooner.
Athletes who wait more than one hour to consume carbohydrates restore about 50% less muscle glycogen than those who consume carbohydrates during the one-hour period after exercise. Think of it as having more "doors" open to the muscle within the first 60 minuges after exercise. Access to these doors to transport fuel back into your muscles decreases the longer you wait after a training session.
The optimal time to consume carbo-rich foods is within 30 to 60 minutes after exercise. Research shows that athletes increase their glycogen stores to greater levels than before exercising by eating foods high in carbohydrates within this time frame. By eating or drinking 1 to 1.5 grams of high-glycemic-index foods (recovery drink, white rice, honey, carrots) per kilogram of body weight immediately after exercise and every two hours for the next four to six hours, you will maximize glycogen stores. Since glycogen is the primary fuel for both on-the-bike and resistance-training sessions, replenishing your stores as quickly as possible is critical to maintaining quality training day-to-day. If you don't take advantage of the increased absorbtion rate, you will eventuallyrestore your depleted glycogen, but it may take up to 48 hours, and your training sessions in the following day will be affected.
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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Protein after 30 mins of your workout!
Dont forget vitamins as well!
Lats like a Manta-Ray! Shoulders like Cantelopes, HorseShoe triceps and XmasTree in teh Back!
ITS YOU AGAINST THE WEIGHT ABE! ITS WAR! TAKE NO PRISONERS!
DESTROY THE WEIGHT! CRUSH ALL OPPOSITION JUST LIKE CONAN!
Go for gold Abe!
In a few years this will be you Abester!
http://www.muscletime.com/pages/departe ... orprev.asf
Dont forget vitamins as well!
Lats like a Manta-Ray! Shoulders like Cantelopes, HorseShoe triceps and XmasTree in teh Back!
ITS YOU AGAINST THE WEIGHT ABE! ITS WAR! TAKE NO PRISONERS!
DESTROY THE WEIGHT! CRUSH ALL OPPOSITION JUST LIKE CONAN!
Go for gold Abe!
In a few years this will be you Abester!
http://www.muscletime.com/pages/departe ... orprev.asf
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masteen
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It's takes more than fucking creatine to get that level of nasty veiny. I recommend rhinocerous hormones. 
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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As I said in another thread recently I use to be a fat then wasn't but am now... that being said when I was on a mass cycle after loosing most of the weight I would eat about 4-5K calories a day. Primarily lean protein and veggies. I ate more carbs when trying to loose weight as I could burn them off more quickly.
Listen to Kwon he knows what he is talking about, he is one of the few people I've ever seen who thinks about lifting more than I did back in the day
Marb
Heh... in actuality all his posts are starting to motivate me to get back into the game. Further details forthcoming later...
Listen to Kwon he knows what he is talking about, he is one of the few people I've ever seen who thinks about lifting more than I did back in the day
Marb
Heh... in actuality all his posts are starting to motivate me to get back into the game. Further details forthcoming later...
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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YES!
I am glad to have motivated people here!
There is OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of people here who have PM:ed me for some advice and suggestions on diet/training!
More than you can imagine! More than even i could imagine!
So there is a great interest! That is superb!
Get back in teh game Marb! There is no need for teh excess fat! Unless you are a powerbuilder!
I am glad to have motivated people here!
There is OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of people here who have PM:ed me for some advice and suggestions on diet/training!
More than you can imagine! More than even i could imagine!
So there is a great interest! That is superb!
Get back in teh game Marb! There is no need for teh excess fat! Unless you are a powerbuilder!
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Siji
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If you look really, really hard.. you can see he's holding what's left of his weeny..Kwonryu DragonFist wrote:
I base that on everything I've been told by trainers and a lot of what I've read. I'd argue that you're not 'tearing up' your muscles during cardio like you are in a workout, and thus your muscles don't need the protein asap to start rebuilding.. instead, I'd rather take that hour after cardio where your system is still pumped up and kicking (the afterburn) and let it burn off some of the fat stores that are already there. Same reason for doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating.. let it eat away at what's there instead of giving it something else to utilize. I'm sure 'scientifically' one could find studies or reports to support either stance.. that's the funny thing about medical reports for the most part. Especially when it comes to nutrition.Aranuil wrote:I agreed with all of your post except for that. What are you basing this on?
..
If you choose not to eat after a cardiovascular workout, you're doing nothing but lowering your energy level overall which could have a negative affect on your weight-training.
You're wasting your time if you're lifting almost every day. There's absolutely no need to go more than 3 times a week if you were maximizing your efficiency during each workout. If your muscles aren't sore the next day, then your routine is too pussyish and lacks intensity. If they are sore, then you need to wait for complete recovery before lifting again.Abelard wrote:well the dedication isn't a problem..i've been going there 5-6 times a week solid since last february.
ok well how does creatine work with muscle memory? say i decide to stop taking the creatine say 4 or 5 months down the road. will i completely lose my results?
BTW, I only lift twice a week. When I was doing the same stupid shit that you are doing now for 5-6 days a week (back in college), my maximum bench and curls were roughly 210 and 120. After about a 4-5 year hiatus from serious lifting, It took me about 1 month to get back to where I was and another 6 weeks to hit 240 and 145 respectively.
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masteen
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That's fine if all you're going for is the one rep max. Doing this does little for muscular endurance. Plus you miss checking out the hardbodied hotties on stairmasters (or "motivation" as we used to call them).Kelgar wrote:You're wasting your time if you're lifting almost every day. There's absolutely no need to go more than 3 times a week if you were maximizing your efficiency during each workout. If your muscles aren't sore the next day, then your routine is too pussyish and lacks intensity. If they are sore, then you need to wait for complete recovery before lifting again.Abelard wrote:well the dedication isn't a problem..i've been going there 5-6 times a week solid since last february.
ok well how does creatine work with muscle memory? say i decide to stop taking the creatine say 4 or 5 months down the road. will i completely lose my results?
BTW, I only lift twice a week. When I was doing the same stupid shit that you are doing now for 5-6 days a week (back in college), my maximum bench and curls were roughly 210 and 120. After about a 4-5 year hiatus from serious lifting, It took me about 1 month to get back to where I was and another 6 weeks to hit 240 and 145 respectively.
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It's all about what your goals are. I'm a strength trainer, not a body builder. As cute as having those pretty little lines and shapes go, I really don't give a fuck.masteen wrote:That's fine if all you're going for is the one rep max. Doing this does little for muscular endurance. Plus you miss checking out the hardbodied hotties on stairmasters (or "motivation" as we used to call them).
As for endurance, you'll find that it is very easy to increase when you can crank up your max. Pushing the pyramid higher and higher means that your base is also forced to expand.
If you put a schmuck who solely works on increasing the number of reps he can pound out at a specific weight against another who strength trains, I guarantee you that the strength trainer will eventually be able to pound out more reps at the same weight the endurance trainer uses.
Lastly, I've got the endurance where it really counts. My soon to be significant other will attest to that.
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masteen
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I'm not dissing your routine, but I used to routinely out lift a trainer at my old gym who preached these kinds of workouts. Do I think that you should never do heavy weight, low rep sets? No. But doing nothing but isn't any better. There's a reason that the NFL combine tests their prospects on the number of reps they can crank out at 225 lbs.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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noel
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The kind of bottom line thing that is often forgotten is that everyone is different, and different training regimes work for different people. The real key is to be knowledgable enough about working out in general that you can apply what you've learned and see what works best for you.masteen wrote:I'm not dissing your routine, but I used to routinely out lift a trainer at my old gym who preached these kinds of workouts. Do I think that you should never do heavy weight, low rep sets? No. But doing nothing but isn't any better. There's a reason that the NFL combine tests their prospects on the number of reps they can crank out at 225 lbs.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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That is indeed teh bottom-line!
Start out with teh basics to get to know your bod better, (what works best) then change your training appropriately!
Not everyone trains like Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman!
Some do 2 / week, some do 4 / week, some do Pyramid-sets, some do Mentzers Heavy Duty, some never use machines etc etc..
Important thing is that you feel ..."Teh Pump!"
Start out with teh basics to get to know your bod better, (what works best) then change your training appropriately!
Not everyone trains like Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman!
Some do 2 / week, some do 4 / week, some do Pyramid-sets, some do Mentzers Heavy Duty, some never use machines etc etc..
Important thing is that you feel ..."Teh Pump!"
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brego
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you can choose whatever you want, but a friend of mine took some and now his penis looks like a lawn gnome that was run over by a mack truck.
If buttered toast always lands buttered side down, and cats always land on their feet, what would happen if you taped a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat, butter side up and gingerly tossed the cat out of the window?
http://www.b-unit.com
--Brego Pwnedyouseriously
http://www.b-unit.com
--Brego Pwnedyouseriously
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Trilon Airer
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Kwon,
Whats your stand on NO2? Have you heard any pros or cons about it? Have only been taking for a couple months or so, but can't be sure if I prefer it or creatine.
Thanks for your thoughts...
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sidenote: Want to see Leonard Nimoy sing about Bilbo Baggins? http://homepage.mac.com/evanbaumgardner ... ater6.html
Whats your stand on NO2? Have you heard any pros or cons about it? Have only been taking for a couple months or so, but can't be sure if I prefer it or creatine.
Thanks for your thoughts...
- Sub
sidenote: Want to see Leonard Nimoy sing about Bilbo Baggins? http://homepage.mac.com/evanbaumgardner ... ater6.html
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Kwonryu DragonFist
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Siji
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Great message board with a lot of information on various supplements.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/
Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on NO2, but if you're going to take it, make your own:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... adid=63216
What I'm more interesting in trying is Swole v2 by Syntrax. It's next on my list next time I go shopping. Have read nothing but good on it from people having used it.
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=689
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/
Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on NO2, but if you're going to take it, make your own:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... adid=63216
What I'm more interesting in trying is Swole v2 by Syntrax. It's next on my list next time I go shopping. Have read nothing but good on it from people having used it.
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=689