CBS pulls Reagan miniseries

Mort · Post by **Mort** » November 4, 2003, 4:25 pm

Sets kinda of a scary precedent, but the poor man can't even defend himself....

Discuss/Flame on!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/0 ... index.html

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 4, 2003, 4:30 pm

And what kind of scary precedent does it set? That the public won't watch it, so retailers won't endorse it, therefore the network fails to make money and thus cancels it? Exactly where does this get scary, besides just making monetary sense?

-edit I should say that the public will in fact watch it just to see what the fuss is about, but the advertisers are sqeamish about all of the negative press and most likely would not have endorsed it. I can't really think of another reason as to why they cancelled the show. I don't buy the reason they gave, because they sure as hell were sticking to their guns before the snowball became the size of a house.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 4, 2003, 4:33 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:And what kind of scary precedent does it set? That the public won't watch it, so retailers won't endorse it, therefore the network fails to make money and thus cancels it? Exactly where does this get scary, besides just making monetary sense?

yeah that is more par for the course than a precedent. agree w/ Krim =)

the execs spent a lot of money on it hoping it would help with Ad Sales in November. They looked at the finished product, felt like it wouldnt sell, so pushed it to Shwotime.

i think the last few years of reality television has shown that the major networks will air *anything* that they think will sell advertising. So i'm not really too concerned that this was a case of the religious right secretly putting the 'kabosh' on the project.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » November 4, 2003, 4:59 pm

Well, my point was mainly that the "Right" pretty much stopped this show from airing because it put Reagen in a pretty negative light.... what scares me, is that the "Left" will be doing this 10-fold (There are more of them). I will come up with examples later, boss is glaring =P

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 4, 2003, 5:27 pm

wow you've somehow managed to turn CBS's pulling of the reagan's into a leftist conspiracy to destroy america.. good job.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » November 4, 2003, 6:01 pm

Have any of you ever actually thought to yourself, "Self, I will not buy this or that product because I don't like the TV show they advertised with."

Cause, I cant ever say I have.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 4, 2003, 6:05 pm

ask Pepsi why they pulled Ludacris' endorsement contract.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 4, 2003, 6:13 pm

Same thing happened to Howard Stern in his early days as a broadcaster, companies started pulling advertisements (read as MONEY by networks) when he started making his first outlandish opinions on large scale airwaves. It almost ruined him.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » November 4, 2003, 6:40 pm

Yeah, but advertisers pull ads from tv or radio shows for fear people will not buy thier product. How many of you guys have not purchased a product because of the show it ran with, not because of who endorsed it.

As in, say the Reagan mini series was to air, and I was pissed about it. It is not like I, nor most rational people I suspect, would boycott all the companies that aired an ad.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 4, 2003, 6:42 pm

Well hot damn spankes, you should be a CEO for some company cause they've got it all wrong don't they.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 4, 2003, 6:48 pm

Its not so much people seeing a product being advertised on a show they don't like and making a conscious choice to never buy that product again, but advertising on TV doesn't really exist to inform someone about a product anymore. These advertisers are trying to sell an image to consumers because image is pretty much the only thing they have to go on these days. When you're talking about 5 different brands of soda that all taste nearly identical or 3 different brands of "designer" jeans that all came out of the same sweatshop in honduras or two different vehicles with identical features that look pretty much the same and cost within $1000 of one another, the purpose of advertising is to say "hey if you want to be cool you have to consume our product and not theirs." Associating your product with something that might be looked at negatively by a large section of people is not something people would want to pay millions of dollars in advertising money to do.

Also when these insane-o conservative groups get involved you have to start worrying about boycotts, because those headcase fundie baptists in the US would boycott jesus if they felt he was getting in the way of their agenda.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » November 4, 2003, 6:48 pm

Spankes wrote:How many of you guys have not purchased a product because of the show it ran with, not because of who endorsed it.

Everytime I don't watch a television show.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 4, 2003, 7:00 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Also when these insane-o conservative groups get involved you have to start worrying about boycotts, because those headcase fundie baptists in the US would boycott jesus if they felt he was getting in the way of their agenda.

absolutely, and you know the point would be hammered on Rush's broadcast, as well as Hannity's, and it would make The Memo that is posted on the FoxNEWS Newsroom wall (especially considering Roger Ailes made his name working for Reagan). Especially with talk radio listeners who tend to be pretty loyal and ritualistic listeners, somebody hammering at an advertiser is a huge potential threat.

It doesnt even have to be a threat that is ever communicated to advertisers or anything like that. They have tons of people in the marketing department who make lots of money and are not stupid who want to keep making lots of money.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » November 4, 2003, 7:02 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:Well hot damn spankes, you should be a CEO for some company cause they've got it all wrong don't they.

Pfft, I am not saying they are 'wrong'. I am asking how many of YOU PEOPLE have CONSCIOUSLY decided not to use or consume a product because of the show it was advertised during.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 4, 2003, 7:04 pm

I have consciously made a choice to not consume a product based solely on how obnoxious their advertising was.. I wish advertisers would recognize this as a growing trend as well.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 4, 2003, 7:06 pm

I can honestly say I have not done that, because if I don't like a show, I will not suffer through it. I change the channel, which affects ratings, ratings (and forecasted ratings) drive advertising costs, which affects a networks pocket book, which puts us back to where we started..in total agreement with Krimson.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 4, 2003, 7:09 pm

Spankes wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:Well hot damn spankes, you should be a CEO for some company cause they've got it all wrong don't they.
Pfft, I am not saying they are 'wrong'. I am asking how many of YOU PEOPLE have CONSCIOUSLY decided not to use or consume a product because of the show it was advertised during.

It is not entirely concious decision advertisers are worried about. Subconcious influence of brand recognition is a large part of what image based advertising is about (what Kyo was detailing above).

THere is some legitimate concern in cases like this of active campaigning of conservative elements against advertisers who might buy hte spots CBS sells during this broadcast.

You know what else though? CBS might have been asking a lot for the spots, and advertisers didnt want to pay a lot to buy time in a program that sucks - political situations aside.

We simply don't know, but back to your point, it is more subcouncious than concious that the advertisers are worried about here most likely. During certain types of breaking news situations where i work, advertisers call and have their spots pulled because they dont want their bright shiny commericial buttressing up against deaht and mayhem that would be running on bump back into programming.

PS: Krimson is all over this one

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 4, 2003, 7:12 pm

kyoukan wrote:I have consciously made a choice to not consume a product based solely on how obnoxious their advertising was.. I wish advertisers would recognize this as a growing trend as well.

Totally.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » November 4, 2003, 7:33 pm

I have also not purchased a product because I found the advertising campaign and/or spokes person irritating. I also recognize the obvious revenue loss from people not seeing the commercial because they don't like the show. I agree that there is an undeniable revenue loss from people not liking a program in many different ways. I was just looking for people who choose not to buy a product because of the show it is aired during.

In reading the article you can find that some people thought the program would have great ratings because of the controversy. This leads me to believe that the advertisers figured there would be some sort of stigma attached to advertising during this program. I guess I am trying to find out who might attach said stigma to them. To me, advertisements are just a way for business to make money....no matter what program they are shown during. I couldn't care less what program a coke commercial is shown during...I'll drink it anyway.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 4, 2003, 7:39 pm

its not our demographic they are worried about pissing off.

it isnt our demo that would even watch this show.

it is 55-65 year olds - people who actually watch commercial breaks

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 4, 2003, 8:10 pm

kyoukan wrote:I have consciously made a choice to not consume a product based solely on how obnoxious their advertising was.. I wish advertisers would recognize this as a growing trend as well.

I'm all for that..

Also, can *anybody* tell me why the FUCK I would want a waiter to come up and talk to me when I'm in the middle of a conversation with my date/spouse/friend/self, I have food on the table and my drink is not empty. Why, Why, WHY?!

I know they just want a tip, but trust me, if they kept their eyes open and their tiny brains engaged they'd get much better tips for not butting into my conversations like a spoilt child that has a question for it's mother.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 5, 2003, 12:22 pm

givem a break, busting tables is a tough job and you get pissed that he's being friendly about it?

Silvarel Mistmoon · Post by **Silvarel Mistmoon** » November 6, 2003, 11:10 am

Not that I would have watched this mini series but there are a lot of shows on TV that I wonder how they get on. They should look at pulling more of the trash they put on TV.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » November 6, 2003, 11:56 am

If this was a decade ago, that show would have run.

Since 93 or so, conservatives have successfully grabbed a share of the mass media mouthpiece.

If both sides have equal access to the media, fringe propaganda from both sides, can be weeded out.

If I have a choice between two similar products, I'll definately choose the company who isn't supporting things I disagree with.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » November 6, 2003, 12:25 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:If I have a choice between two similar products, I'll definately choose the company who isn't supporting things I disagree with.

I didn't think I did initially, but then I realized I do avoid certain products based on, either, the company that makes it, or where it's advertised. In addition, I certainly can't be exposed to a product using tv ads if I'm not watching the show.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » November 6, 2003, 1:32 pm

Here's one..."Choosey moms choose Jif!"

Fuck you, sexist punks. Skippy it shall be.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 6, 2003, 5:04 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:givem a break, busting tables is a tough job and you get pissed that he's being friendly about it?

I don't require constant ass kissing to make me feel good about myself. It's not being friendly, it's being obtrusive and trying to remind you every 5 minutes what a good server they are and how you should give them a nice fat tip.

Constantly interrupting my conversation to see if I want the 2 inches of coke in my glass filled up is just annoying.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 6, 2003, 5:10 pm

This was obviously your first venture into the mass serving arena that we currently call a restaurant. You need to loosen up or you'll end up crapping diamonds.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » November 6, 2003, 5:26 pm

If waiters and waitresses would come by to refill my drink before it was empty, I would consider it a personal blessing from God.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 6, 2003, 5:41 pm

wow imagine a server with the fucking gall to ask me if everything is ok with my meal and filling my drink up. don't they realize they just wrecked my conversation?! I'm a big wheel in this community and what I say is important!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 6, 2003, 5:57 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:This was obviously your first venture into the mass serving arena that we currently call a restaurant. You need to loosen up or you'll end up crapping diamonds.

It's only chain restraunts in the US. Everywhere else in the world servers seem to understand that they only have to be available, not in your face all the time.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 6, 2003, 5:58 pm

kyoukan wrote:wow imagine a server with the fucking gall to ask me if everything is ok with my meal and filling my drink up. don't they realize they just wrecked my conversation?! I'm a big wheel in this community and what I say is important!

eh?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 6, 2003, 5:59 pm

Liquid dominatrix...
Where the fuck is my Coke?
Do you want a tip?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » November 6, 2003, 8:19 pm

kyoukan wrote:I have consciously made a choice to not consume a product based solely on how obnoxious their advertising was.. I wish advertisers would recognize this as a growing trend as well.

Ditto.

Why does it seem that all commercials these days are aimed at the lowest .01% of human intelligence? (More so than historically)

Siji · Post by **Siji** » November 6, 2003, 8:23 pm

Zaelath wrote:Also, can *anybody* tell me why the FUCK I would want a waiter to come up and talk to me when I'm in the middle of a conversation with my date/spouse/friend/self, I have food on the table and my drink is not empty. Why, Why, WHY?!

I know they just want a tip, but trust me, if they kept their eyes open and their tiny brains engaged they'd get much better tips for not butting into my conversations like a spoilt child that has a question for it's mother.

My pet peeve is managers walking the floor. I don't want you to ask me how everything is. If there's something wrong, I would have already said something. I want you to leave me the fuck alone so I can enjoy the quiet that I left the house to obtain. I also don't want you pointing at my food, staring at my food, or giving me the history on how the food came to be. I want to eat my food and if you're not sitting at the table eating food too, I don't want to see or hear you unless you're bringing me something. That's the service and experience I pay for, and that's what I tip extremely well for.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 6, 2003, 9:09 pm

you tip well for less service?

what in the fuck kind of person gets offended if their server asks if everything is okay? are you insane?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » November 6, 2003, 10:52 pm

kyoukan wrote:you tip well for less service?

what in the fuck kind of person gets offended if their server asks if everything is okay? are you insane?

I tip well for less obtrusive service, yes. I don't get offended if the server asks if everything is ok. Once. Preferrably AFTER I've had a chance to taste the food and preferrably when I don't have a mouth full of food. It's the managers I can't stand. Waiters & Waitresses, for the most part, have my utmost respect. (Mother was one for 10+ years) They've got a hard job to do and get paid squat for doing it.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 7, 2003, 12:01 pm

it depends on what kind of restaurant you are at, and it depends on the style of communication.

i do have a serious problem with people trying to turn over your table while you are still finishing your wine. Fine to clean the table off a bit, but dont rush me out the door, especially since the wine I'm finishing is sold at a 400% markup LOL

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 7, 2003, 6:07 pm

kyoukan wrote:you tip well for less service?

what in the fuck kind of person gets offended if their server asks if everything is okay? are you insane?

Reminding me you exist every 5 minutes is not more service. Truely excellent service makes you feel like they are there the moment you want them and otherwise cease to exist.

I don't want to make friends with my server; I don't want to know anything about them or offer anything about myself. I want them to serve me and then go. You might think that's arrogant, but part of doing their job well is determining if I'm some chatty Cathy that needs to exercise my verbal diarrhoea with every person I meet or if I want to be left alone.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 7, 2003, 6:12 pm

I can only imagine all the lugies you have unwittingly ingested. I hope you don't come off as this much of a prick to the waiter, because they have silent justice.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 7, 2003, 6:22 pm

It goes with what restaurant you go to as well. I serve part time at a 4 star restaurant while I am in college and know quite a bit about service. If you go to a upper scale place server communication is little. But don't go to Applebee's for a quiet talk with your friend/spouse/etc. Hell, I never talk to my guests unless they ask me something first. I don't even ask if they need more coke, I just get it for them. I agree, that people overly asking if you are ok and need anything is pathetic. But don't fucking blame them if your in the middle of a bite and they ask. Shake your head yes for fucks sake if you can't talk. They are just doing their job.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 7, 2003, 6:24 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:I can only imagine all the lugies you have unwittingly ingested. I hope you don't come off as this much of a prick to the waiter, because they have silent justice.

Not at all, I'm always very polite and congenial to the servers. I'll also never send food back to the kitchen. I just won't "overtip" for obtrusive service.

BTW, I don't see how wanting to be served in the manner that I want, while paying for the privilege makes me a prick. The sole reason you eat in a restraunt is for the service and the atmosphere; otherwise I could just get takeout.

What's so hard to comprehend, that someone has a different view to you, or that the US training manual on anything might not suit people from every culture?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 7, 2003, 6:51 pm

There is no lack of comprehension on my part, I totally understand your point of view, I just happen to believe your POV is nitpicky as hell and makes you look like a jerk. Now do you comprehend that tightass?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 7, 2003, 7:00 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:There is no lack of comprehension on my part, I totally understand your point of view, I just happen to believe your POV is nitpicky as hell and makes you look like a jerk. Now do you comprehend that tightass?

And I think your constant need to personally insult anyone that has a different POV to your own makes you a fine american. Feel free to disregard the facts of the matter; it's my money and I'll tip how I see fit based on how well I think you do your job.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 7, 2003, 7:09 pm

You are probably the only person beside kyoukan that I have personally attacked on this board, so you should feel honored. And yes, only Americans do personal attacks, I'm putting that out there for the record.

-edit oops, I shredded cartalas a few times too, I guess this club that you find yourself in is not so small afterall!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 7, 2003, 7:24 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:You are probably the only person beside kyoukan that I have personally attacked on this board, so you should feel honored. And yes, only Americans do personal attacks, I'm putting that out there for the record.

-edit oops, I shredded cartalas a few times too, I guess this club that you find yourself in is not so small afterall!

I see your grasp of logic is also tenuous. Here's an example so you can spot the flaw and work on it:

All men are male.

Jack is a man.

All people named Jack are male.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » November 7, 2003, 7:39 pm

I liked you better when you were defending your POV and not trying to be a comedian. Stick with defending your points of view, because your comedy sucks.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 7, 2003, 7:45 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:I liked you better when you were defending your POV and not trying to be a comedian. Stick with defending your points of view, because your comedy sucks.

Oh go away. You can't stick to the issue. You can't make any point other than "you're a tightass and you have no right to expect service you pay for". You can't even follow simple logic (or resort to wild rhetoric that doesn't stand up to even cursory examination), and you're probably just trolling for shits and giggles anyway since you haven't added any real argument to the thread. Shoo.

--edit. Just to be clear, you can call me the result of a monkey raping a camel for all I care, but I'm not responding to your whining further, unless you can come up with an actual argument.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 8, 2003, 2:17 am

Krimson Klaw wrote:There is no lack of comprehension on my part, I totally understand your point of view, I just happen to believe your POV is nitpicky as hell and makes you look like a jerk. Now do you comprehend that tightass?

Agreed. Not wanting to be bothered and in other words being annoyed with a server for doing their job (yes asshole, it is their job to ask how things are), makes you a pompous asshole. Views be damned. If it is your point of view that you pay for the food and not the service than you are stupid as hell. If you paid for the food, you would not be getting a drink refill at all without getting up (which to most is more of a pain than being bothered by a server), or no one would care if your food was fucked up.

You probably tip less than 10 percent as well.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 8, 2003, 3:12 am

Zamtuk wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:There is no lack of comprehension on my part, I totally understand your point of view, I just happen to believe your POV is nitpicky as hell and makes you look like a jerk. Now do you comprehend that tightass?
Agreed. Not wanting to be bothered and in other words being annoyed with a server for doing their job (yes asshole, it is their job to ask how things are), makes you a pompous asshole. Views be damned. If it is your point of view that you pay for the food and not the service than you are stupid as hell. If you paid for the food, you would not be getting a drink refill at all without getting up (which to most is more of a pain than being bothered by a server), or no one would care if your food was fucked up.

You probably tip less than 10 percent as well.

Never have so many words been spoken for so little benefit, read what I said again, I am paying for the service.. what's wrong with wanting something different to you? It's not like I'm saying they need to take me out back and blow me to earn a better tip, they just need to actually take notice of how customers react to their interactions.

I tip high usually, my last tip was 33% for a) a good job, b) taking the cue that I didn't feel like a conversation.

It's their job to get as many people to come back to the restraunt as possible. The best way to do that is to actually take some notice of what people want.

Are all you people fucking (ex)servers or just find that personalising service is an outrage?