Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 8, 2003, 2:41 pm

Strange little smidgeon of info, nothing we probably already didn't know.

I was speaking recently to a British soldier who had been in charge of 'body disposal' during the war in Iraq.

Now, in Britain we were lead to believe there were around 3000-4000 innocent Iraqi's killed. An 'acceptable' number, if you will.

However, this high ranking soldier, (friend of my dads) was telling me that there was at LEAST 10,000 in his 'batch' alone.

This leads to the obvious conclusion that the media have once again fed us shite.

Which isn't surprising, just annoying. Tragic for all the people who have died but never even got a mention.

Obviously I could be bullshitting you all, or he could be bullshitting me, which would have been a bit pointless but I just thought i'd pass it on.

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » August 8, 2003, 2:46 pm

However, this high ranking soldier, (friend of my dads) was telling me that there was at LEAST 10,000 in his 'batch' alone.

Firstly define innocent. Seccondly 10,000 innocent people killed or 10,000 total including those fighting against the coalition troups?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 8, 2003, 2:59 pm

Innocent
in·no·cent - Pronunciation Key (n-snt)
adj.
Uncorrupted by evil, malice, or wrongdoing; sinless: an innocent child.

Not guilty of a specific crime or offense; legally blameless: was innocent of all charges.

IN this case, I am talking about people who were killed in the crossfire, or ACCIDENTLY by the US/UK troops. I am not talking about people fighting the coalition.

Plus, I am told this 10,000 number is from a single batch, there are allegedly more 'batches'.

The number of victims, as in the people who weren't involved at all with the war, has been severly under reported. Why? Well that would make the coalition look bad and since they already look like lying, decietful money hungry, oil hungry power mongering bastards.....i'll calm down

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 8, 2003, 3:19 pm

the news media typically reports civilian casualty figures provided by the International Red Cross.

that is how i understand it. I dont know if the Red Cross has been allowed to evaluate the situation in Iraq, but i would think the answer to that would be yes. whether what the Red Crescent (red cross there) has seen a 'sanitized' version of the situation is an entirely different matter.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 8, 2003, 3:27 pm

Aye, Voronwe, he would have cleaned up a lot of 'mess' before the area would have been open to press, red cross etc...

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 8, 2003, 3:47 pm

For a long time the Red Cross complained that they were not allowed in to look at the situation. Finally they were. Now, what happened during that time period is of course open to speculation.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » August 8, 2003, 3:48 pm

What is up with US soldiers being killed by "non-hostile gunfire"? Are they shooting each other? ala friendly fire?

Then the media reports the smaller number of soldiers killed in "hostile" fire.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 8, 2003, 4:31 pm

What is up with US soldiers being killed by "non-hostile gunfire"? Are they shooting each other? ala friendly fire?

Suicides. I just read a report about them. Apparently, there have been several and it's a bit abnormal.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 8, 2003, 4:36 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
What is up with US soldiers being killed by "non-hostile gunfire"? Are they shooting each other? ala friendly fire?
Suicides. I just read a report about them. Apparently, there have been several and it's a bit abnormal.

Friendly fire is one, as well as AA fire. What goes up, must come down..and it kills. Many people in Pearl Harbor were killed MILES away from the attack by our own anti-aircraft fire coming down on them.
Now in the case of our troops in Iraq, this isn't true. (iraqi air force? what iraqi air force!?) So how many patriots did we use? I can see the debris from that being very deadly.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 8, 2003, 4:37 pm

Teeny,

I don't know your friend, but overestimating numbers in times of stress is a very well documented phenomenon. I can't imagine many things more stressful than looking over several thousand dead bodies.

Non-hostile gunfire is also the term used for friendly-fire deaths, I believe. Not too hard to figure that if you start shooting hundreds of rifles into an area full of concrete and such you are going to get ricochets, wrong targets due to visibility. etc.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » August 8, 2003, 5:48 pm

I say its bullshit. I have over 10 close friends from highschool/college over there right now. Half of them are officers on the front lines, and the others in the rear doing "clean up".

Not to mention my own unit tells me close to 5,000 or less.I tend to belive my battle buddies of the past 6 years