Sexism and EQ

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Sexism and EQ

Post by Sylvus »

I didn't know whether to post this in the EQ forum, General or Current Events. It was just released yesterday, so it seems rather current.

http://news.com.com/2100-1043_3-1020180.html?tag=lh
A virtual glass ceiling in 'EverQuest'?


By David Becker
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
June 23, 2003, 3:55 PM PT


You can be whoever you want to be online, but you'll still make less money if you're a woman.
That's the conclusion of a recent study by a noted economics professor, who examined price differences between male and female characters auctioned off for the popular online fantasy game "EverQuest."

Edward Castronova, associate professor of economics at California State University at Fullerton, previously calculated that the fictional world of Norrath in "EverQuest" has a lively economy that ranks 77th among the nations of the world.




For his latest study, Castronova again looked at online auctions in which players pay real-world money for characters and in-game items, a controversial activity that "EverQuest" publisher Sony Online Entertainment has tried to quash.

"EverQuest" players are free to chose the character that represents them in the online game's world, and many of the men who make up 92 percent of the game's subscriber base play as a female at least part of the time.

Castronova found that female characters, or "avatars," sold for an average of $281, well below the $346 average selling price of a male character. Even when differences in skills and level attainment (the in-game attributes that would most directly determine a character's value) were taken into account, female characters still sold for an average of $41 less, or 12 percent less, than male counterparts.

That's better than the real world--gender pay disparity in the United States is around 28 percent, according to recent studies--but still not the egalitarian environment online utopians might envision.

"On Earth, people can point to differences in the way male and female bodies are built and say that's why we have gender inequality," Castronova said. "That doesn't happen in Norrath--the bodies do exactly the same thing. Yet it turns out there's still something there."

A number of factors could contribute to the "EverQuest" gender gap, Castronova said. But in playing the game, he found plenty of anecdotal evidence that female characters are valued less highly than are male ones, even though the real person behind the character can be of either gender. Castronova said he played the game as a female character a number of times, and would inevitably find other players assuming he was less knowledgeable or skilled.

"I'm pretty experienced, but I'd still get people coming up to me and saying, 'OK, honey, stand over there and watch what I do,'" he said. "Even though everybody knows the person behind the avatar could be either sex, the male avatars tend to be treated as more skilled...We've just taken sex roles from Earth and put them into Norrath."
I find it a bit odd, I thought manginas were encouraged in EQ.
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Post by masteen »

Nobody likes finding a fish in their man chowder.
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Post by Voronwë »

i'm not sure what that means Masteen, but it sure makes me hungry!
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Post by Adelrune Argenti »

Very interesting. I can understand why that would be though. If 92 percent of the players are men, there are probably a lot of men who don't wish to play female characters. Thus, there isn't as big of a demand.

What really scares me is the people who spend actual academic time figuring all this shit out. There are a lot better things to do.
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Post by Xouqoa »

Yeah, they should have studied all the free loot, buffs, help, money, etc that female characters get IN game - it would totally debunk their results.

Leveling up a human female ranger in all seb scale (chain texture) armor used to own. I'd get so many buffs and shit without asking, it was funny. I even got asked on a date once by a poor clueless noob who didn't know what a mangina was.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Who the FUCK was paid to find this out?
And why wasn't it ME!?
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Post by Salis »

Yea I think this guy is shooting to become head of the new EQ faculty at Harvard!
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Post by kyoukan »

it's california state. what do you want, actual science?

odd though I was looking in playerauctions for a character to possibly buy and I couldn't find any female avatars on veeshan.
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Post by Acies »

kyoukan wrote:it's california state. what do you want, actual science?

odd though I was looking in playerauctions for a character to possibly buy and I couldn't find any female avatars on veeshan.
omg you wont play a man you sexxist?1! ;)
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Post by rhyae »

Xouqoa wrote:Yeah, they should have studied all the free loot, buffs, help, money, etc that female characters get IN game - it would totally debunk their results.

Leveling up a human female ranger in all seb scale (chain texture) armor used to own. I'd get so many buffs and shit without asking, it was funny. I even got asked on a date once by a poor clueless noob who didn't know what a mangina was.
Ok true. BUT, if you are a guy, buying a character thats already 60-65, you dont need to be a flirty mangina for loot. That part of the game is over for you basically, now you want to play more seriously or just need a cleric to two box or something. And many people I would guess are more comfortable with their true gender.
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Post by Acies »

rhyae wrote:
Xouqoa wrote:Yeah, they should have studied all the free loot, buffs, help, money, etc that female characters get IN game - it would totally debunk their results.

Leveling up a human female ranger in all seb scale (chain texture) armor used to own. I'd get so many buffs and shit without asking, it was funny. I even got asked on a date once by a poor clueless noob who didn't know what a mangina was.
Ok true. BUT, if you are a guy, buying a character thats already 60-65, you dont need to be a flirty mangina for loot. That part of the game is over for you basically, now you want to play more seriously or just need a cleric to two box or something. And many people I would guess are more comfortable with their true gender.
Bah, you underestimate the cheap ass nature of men who like to get free stuff. Many would still play a female character for attention, fawing, even little piddly loot. I know, for I was also a victim (well, it was a real female).
Cattie Brie and I both went to bitch Trak, I ended up with the Jumpy robe and had a character to put it on. She wanted it for her like, I think level 5 enchanter. I said no, she batted her eyes, end of story.

She has the robe :(
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Post by Jice Virago »

I don't know whats more pathetic, the women (and men with more greed than pride) who play that angle, or the men who fall for it. It does happen, however, just human nature. Personally, I made a female avatar because it was based on an NPC from a game I ran and I knew I was going to spend long hours playing this game and didn't want to spend it staring at some dudes hairy ass the whole time. In general, the female models have always looked more esthetically pleasing than the male ones for Dark Elves. On the other hand you have had people who have played the mangina role to the point where they put up websites with fake pictures of boobies claiming it was them to sponge up more loot.

On topic though, I think the lower price on female avatars speaks more about the general homophobia of the gaming populace than any kind of "glass ceiling" in the game.
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Post by Atokal »

kyoukan wrote:it's california state. what do you want, actual science?

odd though I was looking in playerauctions for a character to possibly buy and I couldn't find any female avatars on veeshan.
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Post by kyoukan »

it's okay. if I was back in EQ I probably wouldnt be looking out for trakanon raids and venril sathir much, so you probably wouldn't see me.
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Post by Raistin »

I ended up getting lots of items and stuff from "females" in game. Not to mention webcam *yes it was female for sure then!*, or other fun stuff! I never went out of my way to hit or what ever on females. It was always the other way around. Well maybe 1 or 2,but it was just all in fun.

I have such a sparkling charm I guess!

:vv_1luvu: Sup kyoukan



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Post by Marbus »

Personally I always liked having a female Cleric for 2 boxing. As the point was to hang out with either my male warrior or paladin it just seemed more natural. I had their last names the same and people would always ask "you guys married?"

Tragically I had the same last name on all my characters and used my Pally to PL my warrior for a while... during that time everyone asked... "you guys butt-pirates?" Sad but true...

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Re: Sexism and EQ

Post by Mplor »

Sylvus wrote:"I'm pretty experienced, but I'd still get people coming up to me and saying, 'OK, honey, stand over there and watch what I do,'" he said.
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Post by Canelek »

Jice made all his characters female to get the mad cock! You know it, you saucy vixen you.. :P
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