Looks like little Bush wants his name in the spotlight too.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » May 14, 2003, 4:00 am

Hardly surprised here. Stupidity is genetic and as such, you knew Jeb was going to start tossing his shit around like a good monkey as well.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... Dheadlines

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 14, 2003, 5:23 am

Forcing a woman, any woman, that was raped to carry the baby to term is just.. ugh. I would kill myself before allowing that. It never ceases to amaze me how a person can pretend to value life so much and then hand out so many death sentences at the same time.

Speaking of capital punishment, at least its not Dubya in charge down there. I hear he pops a chubby every time he thinks about strapping another mentally handicapped person into the electric chair.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 14, 2003, 9:30 am

kyoukan wrote:Forcing a woman, any woman, that was raped to carry the baby to term is just.. ugh. I would kill myself before allowing that. It never ceases to amaze me how a person can pretend to value life so much and then hand out so many death sentences at the same time.

Speaking of capital punishment, at least its not Dubya in charge down there. I hear he pops a chubby every time he thinks about strapping another mentally handicapped person into the electric chair.

Protecting the rights of a unborn child vs the rights of a criminal oh I see. What a comparison.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 14, 2003, 12:55 pm

This is the single stupidest thing JEB has ever done. Pregnancies resulting from rapes are the #1 reason that abortion should be legal, IMO.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » May 14, 2003, 2:01 pm

masteen wrote:This is the single stupidest thing JEB has ever done. Pregnancies resulting from rapes are the #1 reason that abortion should be legal, IMO.

I TOTALLY agree!

If I was raped and ended up pregnant... NO ONE has the right to force me to go through with the pregnancy.

It's bad enough that a woman has to deal with the fact she was raped. Yes, she could give up the child for adoption, but she would have to carry that baby for 9 months first... possibly prolonging her "recovery" from the rape. There are women who have done this, but I wouldn't be able to.

Say the woman gives the child up for adoption, then tries to move on with her life. Years later that child could come back looking for her for any number of reasons (wanting to know why they were given up, or perhaps they need some medical background, etc). Not only will the woman have to relive what happened to her (though I imagine something like that will never be forgotten anyways), the child will find out that s/he was created through a violent act (gee what a lovely thought), and have to live with THAT thought for the rest of his/her life.

Someone told a story once where he knew of a teen who was raped and ended up pregnant. She didn't want to remain pregnant, but for some idiotic reason her parents forced her to go through with the pregnancy. Instead, the girl ended her life.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 14, 2003, 2:21 pm

Legenae wrote:
masteen wrote:This is the single stupidest thing JEB has ever done. Pregnancies resulting from rapes are the #1 reason that abortion should be legal, IMO.
I TOTALLY agree!

If I was raped and ended up pregnant... NO ONE has the right to force me to go through with the pregnancy.

It's bad enough that a woman has to deal with the fact she was raped. Yes, she could give up the child for adoption, but she would have to carry that baby for 9 months first... possibly prolonging her "recovery" from the rape. There are women who have done this, but I wouldn't be able to.

Say the woman gives the child up for adoption, then tries to move on with her life. Years later that child could come back looking for her for any number of reasons (wanting to know why they were given up, or perhaps they need some medical background, etc). Not only will the woman have to relive what happened to her (though I imagine something like that will never be forgotten anyways), the child will find out that s/he was created through a violent act (gee what a lovely thought), and have to live with THAT thought for the rest of his/her life.

Someone told a story once where he knew of a teen who was raped and ended up pregnant. She didn't want to remain pregnant, but for some idiotic reason her parents forced her to go through with the pregnancy. Instead, the girl ended her life.

This is a tough one, I personally feel Abortion is wrong for any situation but that is because of religous convictions. But on this subject I will not ever try to force my convictions on any one else, that is there decision and something they must decide.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 14, 2003, 2:30 pm

this woman is also mentally retarded which complicates the issue.

but to me it seems like Bush is trying to circumvent the law as has been interpretted by Florida's Supreme Court as recently as 1999.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » May 14, 2003, 2:42 pm

Cartalas wrote:
This is a tough one, I personally feel Abortion is wrong for any situation but that is because of religous convictions. But on this subject I will not ever try to force my convictions on any one else, that is there decision and something they must decide.

It is tough. I, personally, don't agree with abortion being used as a means of "birth control," if that makes any sense. I mean, if I ended up pregnant by mistake, through consentual (sp?) sex, then oops, my bad, I'll have to deal with a baby.

But if I was raped... the pregnancy would be terminated asap.

Also, if a woman was pregnant but the pregnancy could jeopardize her own health, then I agree with terminating the pregnancy.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 14, 2003, 2:50 pm

what is kind of strange to me is that it seems people just act like being pregnant isnt a massive change to the physiology of a person.

let's also say this person has a job. not all jobs have good maternity leave policies, where people can afford to have the time off that they will of course have no choice but to take.

to even suggest that somebody who is raped should be further punished by having to endure the 9 month substantial changes (some of them permanent) to their body because some other guys religion says 'xyz' is patently absurd.

but patent absurdity is par for the course from the Christian Coalition and their ilk.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » May 14, 2003, 3:12 pm

I'm amazed at the poorly written quality of this newspaper article.

If you study it closely you will realize the debate is over assigning a guardian to the fetus... not about abortion at all. No one is suggesting the woman have an abortion. The woman herself is not capable of understanding what's happened to her and she herself hasn't requested ANYTHING. The state hasn't requested an abortion. No one listed in the article has requested an abortion.

So the pro-choice people are getting their panties in a wad merely because the state wants to appoint 2 guardians... one for the mother and one for the 5 month-old fetus.

What happened to this poor woman is a crime, and if the pregnancy had been detected earlier then an abortion would be clearly warranted... however at 5 months I don't think it's nearly so simple. So what's wrong with the fetus having someone to protect it's interests?

Of course we know the answer, to justify abortion you have to consider the fetus simply as biological material. We also know that close to term this biological material is actually a living functioning human baby. Jeb Bush is trying to get the law to make a sharper determination over exactly when biological material becomes human baby. I don't have a problem letting the courts wrestle with this issue. Why should you?

miir · Post by **miir** » May 14, 2003, 3:40 pm

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 14, 2003, 3:56 pm

Metanis wrote:Of course we know the answer, to justify abortion you have to consider the fetus simply as biological material.

You couldn't be more wrong. I personally believe that a human life begins at the moment of conception. I support abortion as a necessary evil. It's better than the back-alley butchers or coat-hangers up the hoo-hoo that were a woman's only recourse before.

Mumblefug · Post by **Mumblefug** » May 14, 2003, 5:56 pm

I can't beleive this fucking article didn't say where the girls parents were. Does she have a family member alive? If so that would be her guardian, or should be. If not then the state is her guardian.
If it was a family member that was legal guardian then they would decide if abortion was the best decision or carrying the baby to term and putting it up for adoption. If it's the state then her social worker would decide I suppose, and would do whatever the state's policies dictated.
I can't believe they want to pull guardians out of their asses to make decisons for a woman they don't even know, one who has special needs they may not even be familiar with.
It's a fucked up situation, and if this was a guard or orderly at the facility I hope they crucify the motherfucker.
The fact that she is mentally handicapped totally clouds the issue. Both sides have picked it up now to further their own agendas. This poor girl is stuck in the middle, and at the mercy of the winner.
God the news is depressing..

Mumble

sarpranous · Post by **sarpranous** » May 15, 2003, 9:01 am

This is the single stupidest thing JEB has ever done.

That or that bullshit FCAT testing...

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 15, 2003, 5:02 pm

Cartalas wrote:This is a tough one, I personally feel Abortion is wrong for any situation but that is because of religous convictions. But on this subject I will not ever try to force my convictions on any one else, that is there decision and something they must decide.

Cartalas, you're the fucking poster boy on why abortions should be an option. Die irl.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 15, 2003, 7:41 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Cartalas wrote:This is a tough one, I personally feel Abortion is wrong for any situation but that is because of religous convictions. But on this subject I will not ever try to force my convictions on any one else, that is there decision and something they must decide.
Cartalas, you're the fucking poster boy on why abortions should be an option. Die irl.

Hey Dregor nice one OMG HAHAHA CARTALAS IS A POSTER BOY
My god are all Canadians a waste of sperm?

There fixed it

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 15, 2003, 8:59 pm

Mind defining the word "spem?"