here's an interesting case

What do you think about the world?
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

here's an interesting case

Post by kyoukan »

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... ory=326033
Kizzie White was still fast asleep when the police came knocking on her door in the early hours on 23 July, 1999. She had no idea what they could possibly want. After all, she was an ordinary 24-year-old mother of two small children living in Tulia, a small, dusty farming town of 5,000 souls in northern Texas. She had never been in trouble for anything in her life.

They told her, to her astonishment, that she was under arrest on drugs charges and ordered her out of the house. She asked if she could at least put her clothes on, but they said no. "I had on boxers and a T-shirt with no underclothes on. With no shoes on," she recounts much later. "Basically, they took me out half-naked."

When the squad car reached the Swisher County courthouse in the centre of town, she saw that dozens of others had been arrested just like her. Men were being paraded across the courthouse lawn in their underwear, their hair uncombed and their faces lost in bewilderment. Every last detainee, as far as she could see, was black, while the arresting officers were uniformly white. To add to the humiliation, local photographers, tipped off in advance, were now busy capturing the bizarre scene for the next day's front pages.

The town's now-defunct newspaper, The Tulia Sentinel, ran a headline on the affair announcing: "Tulia's Streets Cleared of Garbage". An editorial on the inside pages lavished praise on the police for rounding up the town's drug-dealing "scumbags". The racist undertone of the coverage could not have been more clearly signalled; whether or not the police had actually arrested a single drug-dealer, it was incontrovertible fact that they had hauled in more than 10 per cent of Tulia's black population, including one in every two adult males. Six non-blacks were also arrested, but all of these either lived in the black neighbourhood in Tulia – a shanty area of tenements and trailer homes officially known as the Sunset Addition but popularly referred to by white folks as "Niggertown" – or were closely tied to black families.

In all, 46 people were caught up in the police dragnet, although not quite all of them were arrested that morning. They included Kizzie's husband, a white man named William "Cash" Love, her brothers Donnie and Kareem, her sister Tonya, an uncle and five cousins. To believe the indictments subsequently handed down by the district attorney's office, these impoverished farming people were running a high-class racket in powder cocaine. Each of them, prosecutors maintained, had been caught selling the stuff to an undercover narcotics agent called Tom Coleman. Kizzie White, for example, was accused of selling to Coleman no fewer than seven times.

The accusations seemed beyond a joke. After all, none of the 46 people arrested showed the slightest outward sign of material gain that would surely come from the heady lifestyle of a cocaine dealer. When they were arrested, police found no money, no weapons and no trace of illicit drugs of any kind at their houses. There were no fingerprints on the drugs that had been seized. The authorities subsequently failed to produce any photographs, tape-recordings or other concrete evidence that the alleged drug trades had taken place at all.

By now – with the issue finally commanding national attention, including a recent series of hard-hitting op-ed pieces in The New York Times and a clutch of high-society fundraising events on the East Coast to keep the legal defence battle going – it is clear the accusations were a joke. And yet their cases proceeded through the court system, often with terrifying efficiency. Kizzie was sent away for 25 years. Her brother Kareem got 60. Her brother Donnie, who admitted a history of crack cocaine use but insisted he was not a dealer, went down for 12 years. The man fingered as the alleged ring-leader of the cocaine racket, a 57-year-old pig farmer called Joe Moore, was given 99 years even though he was charged with just two counts of selling an eight-ball (about 3.5 grams, or $200 worth) to Agent Coleman. Even worse off than him was Cash Love, Kizzie's husband and the only defendant accused of making any sizeable sale. Accused by Coleman of selling a whole ounce of cocaine, on top of a number of smaller deliveries, he was sentenced to 434 years in state prison. (Could he have been treated with such mercilessness because his inter-racial marriage was abhorrent to mainstream opinion in Tulia? His family certainly thinks so.)
Who was it that said when there is no money there is no justice? Thank god some bleeding hearts got together and scrounged up money for some decent lawyers.

Everyone involved in prosecuting these cases should be the ones in prison.
User avatar
Arborealus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3417
Joined: September 21, 2002, 5:36 am
Contact:

Post by Arborealus »

I wonder how often this goes on without being discovered...This incident involved enough people that considerable notice was taken...How often does it happen to individuals without notice?...
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

"he was charged with just two counts of selling an eight-ball (about 3.5 grams, or $200 worth) to Agent Coleman"



Holy Shit I have been paying $250.00

Thanks for the post Kyoukon
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

:roll:


Well fuck me. The police woke a couple crackheads up and put them in prison.


What was your point?
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Fallanthas wrote::roll:


Well fuck me. The police woke a couple crackheads up and put them in prison.


What was your point?
Another one of Tulia's pillars of the community.
User avatar
Vetiria
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1226
Joined: July 3, 2002, 4:50 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Decatur, IL

Post by Vetiria »

Fallanthas wrote::roll:


Well fuck me. The police woke a couple crackheads up and put them in prison.


What was your point?
You're just stupid, aren't you? There's just no other explanation--pure stupidity.
Burke
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 621
Joined: July 25, 2002, 3:13 pm

Post by Burke »

Goddamn, that article makes me want to kill people.
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Balls.


Any of those convictions been turned over? Even one of em?


That piece is as slanted a reporting as is possible. If you read the piece and think about the judicial system for just a minute, you will see why it is a steaming pile of horseshit.
User avatar
Fredonia Coldheart
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 223
Joined: July 3, 2002, 5:36 pm
Location: Isabel's Path

Post by Fredonia Coldheart »

Fallanthas wrote:Balls.


Any of those convictions been turned over? Even one of em?


That piece is as slanted a reporting as is possible. If you read the piece and think about the judicial system for just a minute, you will see why it is a steaming pile of horseshit.
Umm - read the news ....
The drug convictions of 38 mostly black defendants from a farm town in the Texas Panhandle should be thrown out because they were based on questionable testimony from a single undercover agent accused of racial prejudice, a judge said Tuesday.
To show the quality of Texas justice ...
Coleman came to Tulia, midway between Lubbock and Amarillo, in late 1997. He was a Texas Ranger's son and had been a Pecos police officer and Cochran County sheriff's deputy, though he left that job in 1996 under questionable circumstances.

He worked as a welder before being hired in Tulia in 1998 as an undercover drug agent for the Swisher County Sheriff's Department.

On July 23, 1999, a drug task force pulled suspects from their beds and paraded them, still in their nightclothes, across the courthouse lawn in front of television cameras. Coleman took great pride in the bust.

"I walked in there with 'police' written across my vest and pulled off my mask and they just stared at me with their mouths open," he told the Amarillo Globe-News. "A lot of them just kept saying, 'I can't believe you're a cop. No way you're a cop.' It was just perfect."
The appeals court had ordered the lower court to determine whether Jason J. Williams, Christopher E. Jackson, Freddie Brookins Jr. and Joe Moore were convicted solely on Coleman's word.

The court also wanted to know if prosecutors had failed to turn over information from Coleman's background that might have cast doubt on his testimony.

Law enforcement witnesses testified that he regularly used a racial epithet and had disciplinary problems. Coleman said the epithet was a greeting that he and his friends used.

Coleman was the main witness during the hearing. He contradicted himself several times on the stand, blamed work-related problems on marital trouble and denied allegations that he was a thief and a liar.

One of his supervisors with the Panhandle Regional Narcotics Trafficking Task Force, Lt. Michael Amos, testified that Coleman had "an exceptional talent at being an undercover officer."

But Amos acknowledged that Coleman's previous employers had told his staff Coleman was unprofessional, needed constant supervision, was a discipline problem and tended to run to his mother for help.

Coleman himself was charged with theft and abuse of power involving his previous job in Cochran County; those charges were dropped after he paid nearly $7,000 in restitution.
Fredonia Coldheart
Guff Of Souls - Officer
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

And yet their cases proceeded through the court system, often with terrifying efficiency.
Do you even live in the same world as the rest of us??

Cases this huge always take YEARS to get resolved in front of the tribunal.
The prosecution has absolutly NO proof of anything yet almost everyone named in the case gets sentenced?

You might wanna check this out Fanthalas
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Then you have not only a screwed up undercover officer, but a corrupt prosecuting attorney and and incompetent judge.

The PA had to file the charges. If he did so without ANY documentation as the article suggest, then he just volunteered for some prison time.

Years? Again, balls. You have obviously never been involved in a sweep. Unless there is a question on the evidence, they normally wrap up in a week to ten days.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Here's another link to this story.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0820-06.htm

CommonDreams.Org is the same source that had that had that essay comparing Bush's situation to Hitler's. I haven't read this one through however but the beginning was similar to Kyo's. It is however quite a bit longer.
User avatar
Kilmoll the Sexy
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5295
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:31 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: bunkeru2k
Location: Ohio

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Mixed feelings on this one. How exactly do we know that none of them were indeed selling small amounts of drugs? The undercover officer seems like he was not an orthodox cop, but was suited well for undercover work. Hard to trust just one person though. Does seem like he had many of the people fooled, which makes me a little suspicious of their activities.

I think the police department needs a lesson in how to make things not seem racially motivated, even if the arrests were 100% legitimate. Every jail in this country is filled with people who will let you know that they are innocent of all charges......so who do we trust?

Oh yeah....and they should round up all of them brown skinned peoples! They should be felling lucky that they did not get shot. Good thing we are filling our quota over in Iraq.
Crav
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 447
Joined: July 5, 2002, 8:15 pm

Post by Crav »

I really don't know how anyone can have mixed feeling about this. There was absolutely no evidence against any of the people arrested, aside from the word of person who is morally and ethically questionable at best. That's somewhat akin to going into the richest part of town and arresting every white male you see of fraud and embezzlement on the word of a person who worked as a assistant and had no paper trail to prove any of it. Then you have to find 12 people who would convict them with no evidence at all. My god people do you have to force part of your brain to die to be this ignorant? How in the world can you convince yourself that convicting people with no evidence at all is some how ok? I mean these are the types of stories that helped us vilify the Soviet Union where "uncover" police would accuse people of being rapist and murderers and then convict them in secret, only this is better we are some how able to find 12 people that can lie to themselves and say it's ok to put people in prison with no provable evidence. At least the Soviet people did not take part in sending their own citizens to prison that did not deserve to go.
Crav Veladorn
Darkblade of Tunare

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

great post Crav.
Burke
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 621
Joined: July 25, 2002, 3:13 pm

Post by Burke »

Mixed feelings on this one. How exactly do we know that none of them were indeed selling small amounts of drugs?
Then all the legal system requires is a small amount of proof, of which none seems to have been presented against the defendants. No mixed feelings at all.
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

LOL yeah, and so if one or two people are selling drugs, 38 people can be arrested who just happen to live nearby.

:roll:
Fizzlewhip
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 152
Joined: January 20, 2003, 2:25 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Fizzlewhip »

User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Christ what a mess.


The undercover has no idea what he is doing.


The PA ought to be beaten for being stupid, then jailed for the obvious fuck-all job he did.

The judge is incompetent and likely biased.

I withdraw my earlier comments. I hate seeing cops bashed, but this bunch deserves a hell of a lot worse than a verbal whipping. The sad thing is it looks like the whole damn town is to blame.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

wow fallanthas my opinion of you is even lower than before. good lord it's a new watermark!
Mixed feelings on this one. How exactly do we know that none of them were indeed selling small amounts of drugs? The undercover officer seems like he was not an orthodox cop, but was suited well for undercover work. Hard to trust just one person though. Does seem like he had many of the people fooled, which makes me a little suspicious of their activities.
OK let's say hypothetically they all are drug dealers. Let's just pretend there are 46 cocaine dealers (44 of them black) in a town of a five thousand and that one super undercover cop exposed them all. Pretending that is a reality (which if obviously isn't), 99 years for an 8ball of cocaine? 434 years for an ounce? 60 year sentences? How much do you think some little white suburban yahoo would get for selling an ounce of cocaine to an undercover cop, 5 years with time off for good behaviour?

The legal system down there is so horrifying.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

kyoukan type-R wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.
let's see if Texas' liberal application of the electric chair can be put to some good use and toast this jackass.
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

wow fallanthas my opinion of you is even lower than before. good lord it's a new watermark!

Quote:
Mixed feelings on this one. How exactly do we know that none of them were indeed selling small amounts of drugs? The undercover officer seems like he was not an orthodox cop, but was suited well for undercover work. Hard to trust just one person though. Does seem like he had many of the people fooled, which makes me a little suspicious of their activities.

I'd have to say the same of you Kyou, considering the quote you posted wasn't from me.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

He will probably get 2 week suspension with pay and it'll set back his career to become police chief a few years.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Fallanthas wrote:I'd have to say the same of you Kyou, considering the quote you posted wasn't from me.
I was addressing two different people in one post. Sorry if that confused you.
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

You obviousl;y didn't take the time to read my retraction post either.


Of course, then you wouldn't have had an excuse to attack me personally agin, would you?
User avatar
Vetiria
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1226
Joined: July 3, 2002, 4:50 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Decatur, IL

Post by Vetiria »

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Mixed feelings on this one. How exactly do we know that none of them were indeed selling small amounts of drugs? The undercover officer seems like he was not an orthodox cop, but was suited well for undercover work. Hard to trust just one person though. Does seem like he had many of the people fooled, which makes me a little suspicious of their activities.
OK let's say hypothetically they all are drug dealers. Let's just pretend there are 46 cocaine dealers (44 of them black) in a town of a five thousand and that one super undercover cop exposed them all. Pretending that is a reality (which if obviously isn't), 99 years for an 8ball of cocaine? 434 years for an ounce? 60 year sentences? How much do you think some little white suburban yahoo would get for selling an ounce of cocaine to an undercover cop, 5 years with time off for good behaviour?

The legal system down there is so horrifying.
The sentencing really didn't catch me off guard (the times I mean). I believe it's in Kansas or Oklahoma or one of those hick states that you can get 99 years for having a single marijuana plant. Maybe it was New Mexico, I don't remember.
Fizzlewhip
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 152
Joined: January 20, 2003, 2:25 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Fizzlewhip »

Anyone notice Kyo's post count lately? LOL

I think Kyo was responding to the original post you made, and had not seen your post retracting your opinion.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

kyoukan type-R wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.


So from what I see if it is overturned the checks and balances of our Legal System Works. :lol:
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan type-R wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.


So from what I see if it is overturned the checks and balances of our Legal System Works. :lol:
Too bad they had to wait 4 years behind bars for the media to yank the system's head out of it's own ass.

I hope these people sue the federal govt. and the justice system and get MILLIONS each.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Animalor wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan type-R wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.


So from what I see if it is overturned the checks and balances of our Legal System Works. :lol:
Too bad they had to wait 4 years behind bars for the media to yank the system's head out of it's own ass.

I hope these people sue the federal govt. and the justice system and get MILLIONS each.

A agree but I ask this question, Where were the lawyers,Friends,and Family members when this happened? Why did they not inform the media or appeal to a higher court?
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Cartalas wrote:
Animalor wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan type-R wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/02/tulia ... index.html

Judge recommends overturning drug convictions

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Posted: 3:57 PM EST (2057 GMT)

Former undercover investigator Tom Coleman 'is simply not a credible witness,' a judge said.


So from what I see if it is overturned the checks and balances of our Legal System Works. :lol:
Too bad they had to wait 4 years behind bars for the media to yank the system's head out of it's own ass.

I hope these people sue the federal govt. and the justice system and get MILLIONS each.

A agree but I ask this question, Where were the lawyers,Friends,and Family members when this happened? Why did they not inform the media or appeal to a higher court?
I believe that they were in jail too...
User avatar
Kilmoll the Sexy
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5295
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:31 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: bunkeru2k
Location: Ohio

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Some of these people were obviously guilty. Now whether the courts went overboard (which they obviously did), should not show that this guy made up everything. If some of the people were admitting to using crack, then someone, somewhere sold it to them.

My point was that there were guilty people in there and undoubtedly this undercover guy screwed some of the others. What is going to end up happening is that everyone will get their sentence overturned, even if they were dealing simply because of the way the whole thing was handled.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Well if some were indeed dealing, they're already gotten almost the standard sentance for someone who did the crime.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Seems Tulia's Justice system learned from Sony.


" It is working as intended"
Crav
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 447
Joined: July 5, 2002, 8:15 pm

Post by Crav »

Some of these people were obviously guilty. Now whether the courts went overboard (which they obviously did), should not show that this guy made up everything. If some of the people were admitting to using crack, then someone, somewhere sold it to them.
See the problem is that if we do not follow due process or if the law is not applied equally to everyone then we are left at the mercy of human judgment. While I would love to get every one who has ever committed a crime behind bars, there is no way for us to do it. I mean how many people smoke grass, but don't go to jail? How many people drank before they were 21? How many people have gone above the speed limit? Our legal system is so inadequate to handle crime in this country, whether it's because of the disparity in legal representation depending on your economic status or because of the inherit prejudices that we carry as people into the jury box. Saying that you want criminals off the street to be safe is one thing. Saying that we should arrest and convict people with no evidence is a completely different statement. Anyone that would be ok with having people arrested and convicted without any evidence should have their citizenship revoked because quite obviously they neither care nor respect the ideals that this country was founded on.
Crav Veladorn
Darkblade of Tunare

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein
User avatar
Raistin
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1296
Joined: July 2, 2002, 6:23 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Raistin »

I've been in the middle of this shit before. Just 2 months I had gotten out of boot camp, I was arrested.

I had just baught a nice lil 300zx with the money I saved up, and started to take kick boxing at a local place. One night as I was comming back from class, I was pulled over for "running" a stop sign. Turns out the stop sign was the one I was STOPPED at,and the Cop was in the traffic that was flowing in front of me.

Well as he pulled me over, he asked for the normal stuff. So when I reached over to get it out of the glovebox,I had seen in the corner of my eye, the cop bending down. As I sat up he asked me
" Whats this" and pointed at my tire. I thought he was talking about my diffrent rims on the car.

Well telling him I had my tires stolen, he said no thats not what I'm talking about. I lean out of the window and he bends over and puts his hand BEHIND my front driverside tire, and pulled out a "8ball",and said "This".
He told me he watched me throw it out the window as he had pulled me over " at a well lighted 7-11 store with 20 people outside" and he wanted to watch me to see if I might have a weapon on hand.

Of course I was pretty confused as to what the fuck was going on seeing as I didnt throw shit out the window, muchless cocaine. So He asked to search my car, I only allowed him to if he had his superviser there. So they placed me in hand cuffs while I watch them find nothing in my car.


So of course I go to jail. Spend 3,000 dollars on bail, 500 to get my car out of being impounded, Lose 3 days of work and look for a lawyar that I could affored the first week Im out. Seeing how I just got in to a new job,and had no money saved up but 2 grand to move out. I was shit out of luck.

I ended up getting a Public attorney. He was in his first year of being in the "system" out of college. I was pretty scared shitless. I was facing 5 years in jail, and being a dishonorable discharge in the military.

After the judge tried to make a "example" out of me, and sending me back to jail for telling him I didnt want to plead no contest,and just recive 30 days service,and a 1,000 dollar fine and down to a misdemeanor. I sat in jail for 45 days, while I lost my job, had my orders revoked for being attached to a SF unit based out of North Florida, and every single benefit
I had in the guard removed. After finally going though the Florida supreme
court, I was able to leave jail on another 3,000 bail.


Well it came down to a 6 person trial. He cop decided to change his story 2-3 times on the stand, and gave one fucked up testimony. My Public Defender tore him up, and within 5 mins of the jurors going to the room to decide, they came out and said I was innoncent.

I will personaly attest that the court system is fucked up. The jail system is fucked up. And 70% of police officers are fucking bullshit. I can only hope one day, I can be in the posistion to track these vile peices of shit and have them thrown in jail.


Turns out the cop knew me. I had dated his ex girlfriend in highschool, and he was the jealous type. Needless to say, if I see him shot in the road somewhere, and Im the only one that can help him live. Ill piss in his bullet holes and walk away.

Anyone know a good lawyer for this type of thing that would be willing to go for a % of what I could get, and not payments in advance?


Sorry for the long story! I tend to believe a lot of these "mass arrests" are pure bullshit and the court system doesnt do its job, due to personal expereince.
User avatar
Kilmoll the Sexy
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5295
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:31 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: bunkeru2k
Location: Ohio

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Raistin [FoH] wrote:Anyone know a good lawyer for this type of thing that would be willing to go for a % of what I could get, and not payments in advance?
All of them.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

It's hard to prove a case against a police officer because of the wall of silence they put up where they won't rat each other out. You would have to find a pretty sharkish attorney who knows how to play a jury in a civil case against him. And it would be hard to find witnesses that would corroborate your story vs. his.
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

It's hard to prove a case against a police officer because of the wall of silence they put up where they won't rat each other out. You would have to find a pretty sharkish attorney who knows how to play a jury in a civil case against him. And it would be hard to find witnesses that would corroborate your story vs. his.
In a small department, exactly right.


In a larger one, just look for an IA officer or a PIO.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

internal affairs don't busy themselves with civil cases. that is why they are called internal affairs.
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Ermm, wrong.

Our IA officer will stick his nose in any time an officer is accused of anything that might reflect back ont he reputation of the department.

And we have had a few (not many) civil cases lead to other charges and dismissals for officers. Demotions over non-criminal fuckups are the norm if you make your department look bad.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

sigh

why am I filled with an overwhelming sense of depair every time you try to disagree with me?
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Because you are usually wrong?

Kyou, I am sitting across from the IA's office right now. And every week I have to help staff decisions over the non-criminal fuckups.

Internal Affairs officer != criminal prosecution
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Don't complain, I'm stuck with Fizzlewhip.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Crav
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 447
Joined: July 5, 2002, 8:15 pm

Post by Crav »

I think what Kyoukan was implying was that an IA officer won't assist someone in their civil case against an officer. They might look into it and depending on whether the case goes to court or not they might recommend disciplinary actions be taken against the officer in order to lessen the department's culpability. I really don't know how IA works and what their procedures are, so I can't say for a fact if this is true or not.
Crav Veladorn
Darkblade of Tunare

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein
Neroon
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 213
Joined: July 16, 2002, 3:35 pm

Post by Neroon »

The latest news on this:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030616_1033.html

Looks like 12 of the people were released on bond, and the special prosecutor intends to dismiss the cases. Coleman apparently was indicted for purgury....

I'm not a fan of punitive damages, but these guys need to sue the hell out of someone!
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Thanks for the update!
User avatar
Fallanthas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1525
Joined: July 17, 2002, 1:11 pm

Post by Fallanthas »

Crav, what do you think happens within the department they work for when an officer is summoned to court on a civil matter?


Riiight, the department investigates. It's called cover your ass, bub.
User avatar
Atokal
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1369
Joined: July 4, 2002, 12:23 am

Post by Atokal »

Crav wrote: I really don't know how IA works and what their procedures are, so I can't say for a fact if this is true or not.
Exactly and neither can that dumbass Kyoukan.
Atokal
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Post Reply