Hypocrisy

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kyoukan
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Hypocrisy

Post by kyoukan »

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/debate ... 21003.html

BUSH: But let me say this to you: I wouldn't use force. I wouldn't use force.

LEHRER: You wouldn't use force?

BUSH: No.

LEHRER: Why not?

BUSH: Because it's not in our national interest to use force in this case. I would keep pressure. I would use diplomacy.

There's a difference between what the president did, who I supported, in Kosovo and this. And it's up for the people in this region to figure out how to take control of their country.
BUSH: The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation-building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders.
BUSH: They said we could, even though we're the strongest military, that if we don't do something quickly, we don't have a clearer vision of the military, if we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road. And I'm going to prevent that. I'm going to rebuild our military power. It's one of the major priorities of my administration.
BUSH: Under Vice President Gore's plan, he's going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965. We're talking about a massive government, folks. We're talking about adding to or increasing 200 new programs, 200 programs, 20,000 new bureaucrats.
BUSH: After my plan is in place, the wealthiest Americans will pay a higher percentage of taxes than they do today, and the poorest of Americans, 6 million families, 7 million people, won't pay any tax at all.
BUSH: Secondly, the surest way to bust this economy is to increase the role and the size of the federal government.
BUSH: I think the thing that discouraged me about the vice president was uttering those famous words, "no controlling legal authority." I felt like that there needed to be a better sense of responsibility of what was going on in the White House.
BUSH: I don't want to be the world's policeman.
BUSH: It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us.
BUSH: Somalia. Started off as a humanitarian mission then changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price.

And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building.
BUSH: And secondly, there is other forms of racial profiling that goes on in America. Arab-Americans are racially profiled in what's called secret evidence. People are stopped, and we got to do something about that.
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Post by Jice Virago »

One would think he'd have learned something from his old man getting his ass kicked over the "read my lips" pledge.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

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Post by Xouqoa »

Keep in mind, all of those statements were pre-Sept. 11th. I know that doesn't necessarily invalidate all of what is pointed out, but foreign and domestic policies of any administration would have changed after an event such as that.
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Post by Drakoslay123 »

Hmmm, after 9/11, we decided to become Nation-Building country (foreign country that is)?

Drakoslay :?
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Post by Brotha »

LOL I'm just starting to remember this debate. It was so stupid that I don't think SNL could have done a better skit if they had tried to make one with the idea of it being two imbeciles arguing back and forth. This is a direct quote (I still can't believe this was two of the most powerful men in America "debating"):
LEHRER: Let me ask you both this, and we'll move on, on this subject. As a practical matter, both of you want to bring prescription drugs to seniors, correct?

BUSH: Correct.

GORE: Correct, but the difference is -- the difference is I want to bring it to 100 percent, and he brings it only to 5 percent.

LEHRER: All right. All right. All right.

BUSH: That's just -- that's just -- that's just totally false.

LEHRER: All right. What difference does it make how...

BUSH: Wait a minute. It's just totally false for him to stand up here and say that.

Let me make sure the seniors hear me loud and clear. They've had their chance to get something done. I'm going to work with both Republicans and Democrats to reform the system. All seniors will be covered. All poor seniors will have their prescription drugs paid for. In the meantime -- in the meantime, we're going to have a plan to help poor seniors. And "in the meantime" could be one year or two years.

GORE: Let me -- let me call your attention to the key word there. He said all "poor" seniors.

BUSH: No. Wait a minute, all seniors are covered under prescription drugs in my plan.

GORE: In the first year? In the first year?

BUSH: If we can get it done in the first year, you bet. Yours is phased in in eight years.

GORE: No. No. No. No. It's a two-phase plan, Jim. And for the first four years -- it takes a year to pass it. And for the first four years, only the poor are covered. Middle class seniors, like George McKinney and his wife, are not covered for four to five years.

LEHRER: I've got an idea.

GORE: OK.

LEHRER: You have any more to say about this, you can say it in your closing statement, so we'll move on, OK
Anyways, to get back on topic, I'm not going to analyze every single one of your quotes but...

Sept. 11 DID change OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of things, and I don't see how many of these "hypocritical" quotes are really hypocritcal with that in mind.

Spending wise there's a big difference between increasing spending for homeland security, defense dept. and many other sectors of the government getting much needed increases, and a bunch of useless social programs Gore would have wanted to fund.

There're also several differences between nation building in Somalia and nation building in a post Saddam Iraq or post Taliban Afghanistan after we are forced to topple the regimes- if you would get out of your current mindset and objectively look at the situation you'd see that.

And about arrogance. I don't think we're being arrogant. For example: Bush even going to the U.N. to try to deal with Iraq. Countless times in the past the UN has failed to act and has proven itself to be utterly insignificant. With Saddam's track record it was ridiculous to even think that by writing on a piece of paper that he had one last chance or face serious consequences from the body that only after strong American pressure could decide on fighting back Iraqi forces after they had invaded a sovereign country and was even opposed to us lobbing some missles at Iraq in 98 when they were overtly hiding things from inspectors and in clear material breach of their cease fire agreement was beyond laughable to any reasonable person. There was even a precedent set by Clinton of taking action outside of the U.N. to avoid the arguements and opposition of the very people that are opposing us today. Besides those factors, Bush even had close advisors like Rumsfeld and Cheney urging him to bypass the U.N. altogether. Despite all of this, Bush chose to go to the U.N. We then watched Saddam blatantly defy the resolution over and over (a resolution we didn't even NEED), while much of the U.N. decided to reword the resolution in their minds to something that put the burden on the inspectors rather than Saddam, and immediate into indefinite. Instead of giving up on the U.N. at this point and taking things into our own hands, we pretty much begged and tried to accomodate countries like Cameroon and Guinea in an attempt to exhaust every single possible diplomatic route, to somehow find a way to work through the U.N. Do these actions make Bush/the US arrogant? You decide. And even if we ARE being seen as arrogant- I'd rather be seen as arrogant than submissive.
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Post by Jice Virago »

My point is, you never make a sweeping absolute statement, you always temper it with a qualifier. You especially do not make a sweeping absolute statement about something you have no control over and/or know to be unstable in nature. You leave yourself a semantic out to cover your ass. That is how Bush Sr kicked his own ass in the '92 election; he made an iron clad promise he could not keep due to factors beyond his control. One would think that Bush Jr would have learned something from that and avoided similar pitfalls, but he was probably too busy snorting coke back then to notice.

That said, a lot of what Kyo posted does not nessecarily paint him as a hypocrite, but more simply short sighted and ignorant of the 50 years of foriegn policy that made us the sole superpower in the modern world. I for one don't think he wants to play Cop to the world, given how he has handled N.Korea, but I think its clear he probably had a hardon for Iraq even before he was sworn in, the 9/11 incident just gave him some grease for the wheels. Unfortunately, you can't just knock out a leader in power and not help rebuild the nation in the aftermath and it sure looks like he is lining his buddies up to make cash off the deal.

Its like he has this tunnel vision and thinks the kind of Regan swagger is perfectly acceptable in the current world climate. The powers that be in the US might have ressurected the Old Red Scare in the form of "Such and Such is a Terrorist" dogma, but unlike the cold war, the rest of the world is not buying into it, mainly because they have had to deal with terrorist attacks for years and now that we got our nose punched, all of a sudden we give a shit (that, imo is the real American Hypocracy in all this) which if I were, say, Irish or Czech, I would have a pretty low view of us. Fact is, we ARE arrogant and we ARE resented right now and if we don't clean up our act, we could be the ones facing sanctions and UN Resolutions in a few years.

GW is not a hypocrite, he is an idiot.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

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Post by miir »

I find it really hard to believe that someone can be that ignorant.
Do you seriously believe all the shit that you're spewing?

And about arrogance. I don't think we're being arrogant.
Give me a break.
The USA seems to not give a fuck about the UN or any other country's opinion. The USA is doing whatever it pleases in this situation.
The cheap shots that Bush is taking at France, the UN and all other contries that oppose them are insulting, belittling and contemptible.

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance

George W Bush is embarrasingly arrogant.
The rest of the world seems to think so, and if you choose to ignore that, you are arrogant as well.




And you wonder why so many people are starting to despise Americans.
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Post by Kelshara »

There're also several differences between nation building in Somalia and nation building in a post Saddam Iraq or post Taliban Afghanistan after we are forced to topple the regimes- if you would get out of your current mindset and objectively look at the situation you'd see that.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything, get over it.

And have you ever considered that those who disagree with you might be the ones who see the situation objectively and YOU are stuck in your current mindset?
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Post by Gurugurumaki »

Bush basically called out the non-supporters in the UN, and said they have no balls(fortitude). I thought he did a nice job last night. If I was saddam, I would be scared~
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Yeah it sure takes balls to start an unnecessary war just because you've "lost patience". Cheney's balls on Droopy's chin.
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Post by Gurugurumaki »

vn_Tanc wrote:Yeah it sure takes balls to start an unnecessary war just because you've "lost patience". Cheney's balls on Droopy's chin.
Will you think the war is unnecessary, if we find WMD (legit ones)? If so, then there is no sense in arguing until the war is over. Quein es Droopy?
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Post by Jugata »

I don't think there is any doubt that you will "find" weapons of mass distruction.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Droopy is my new name for Dubya cos he looks and talks like him
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Post by Voronwë »

Basically, as the original post alludes to: Cheney, Rumsfeld and some other people with names you may or may not know (Wolfowitz in particular) have been in favor of military action in Iraq since before this administration took office.

Bush was not in favor of it, as reflected by his quoted statements above. 9/11 gave those who adhered to Wolfowitz's views and were in places of primary influence (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc) the necessary leverage to move Bush to their side of the fence.

The only reason Bush continually tries to bring up 9/11 and terrorism in regards to Iraq are either:

1. because it is part of what made him come to the position he currently holds

and / or

2. simply to build public support.

Bush really had no foreign policy agenda, so it should be a surprise to no one that, he was eventually co-opted into the agenda of the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz group. His appointment of these guys to their positions was the first step towards this war with Iraq.

it may prove to be a good move in the long term but it may not.

i think the hamfisted manner in which the US has approached the diplomacy certainly hasnt helped things, but to take a sober view, if the situation plays out in a manner that is relatively in-line with the positive estimates the miltary planners may have, a lot of the long term relationship tensions should fade.

that is unless the next stop is Damascus, then Tehran, then Pyong-Yang.
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Post by miir »

Droopy?
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

I don't know, if you count the number of european countries supporting the US and then count the number opposing, I find it hard to say diplomacy failed.

The diplomatic style was forceful, but hell its a reflection of a fed-up country. We will not have a suitcase bomb in our cities, and to hell with a couple of flustered premadona countries.

The US is doing the right thing, and I'm personaly to the point where I don't give a damn what a bunch of squeemish hand-wringing "allies" think.

There will not be nuclear fallout in NY, London, Berlin, or Paris because of us.
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Post by miir »

I don't know, if you count the number of european countries supporting the US and then count the number opposing, I find it hard to say diplomacy failed.
Out of 5 nations with veto power, the USA could only convince 1 to support them.

I'd say that's a clear failure.


The diplomatic style was forceful, but hell its a reflection of a fed-up country.
Insults and bribery are usually not effective means of diplomacy.

The US is doing the right thing, and I'm personaly to the point where I don't give a damn what a bunch of squeemish hand-wringing "allies" think.
Arrogance is very unappealing.
You display the same type of disdain your leader has for everyone who doesn't support him.


If you're not with us, you're against us!
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Post by Voronwë »

I agree with you for the most part, that a 'coalition of the willing' does exist.

i think the manner in which it was built was poorly done, and could have been done in a manner which was less abrasive.

but let's be honest, originally Cheney, et al. had Bush convinced to not even go to the UN at all. It could have been worse.

I think the dissent will fade fast from the French, Russian, and CHinese, as the post-war contracts start to become a reality.

everybody will throw their "ideals" away in favor of the $$.

China's opposition i can understand on basic national security needs for them. They have absolutely no oil reserves. A major spike in oil prices that would follow any sort of mass damage to the oil fields would hit their economy hard.

France, Russia, and Germany want their money from Iraq and they also liked Iraq as a client for military equipment. Looks like the US will be the provider of that product in the future. So i understand those countries reservations.
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Post by masteen »

I get my news from VNN, teh Voronwë News Network.
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Post by Voronwë »

Sometimes "Frontline" is the best show around. (Site running slow as hell right now for some reason)

I wish CNN ran programs like that.
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Post by Gurugurumaki »

Voronwë wrote:Sometimes "Frontline" is the best show around. (Site running slow as hell right now for some reason)

I wish CNN ran programs like that.
CNN has been slower than hell lately, whats up with that YOO~
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Post by Voronwë »

Gurugurumaki wrote:
Voronwë wrote:Sometimes "Frontline" is the best show around. (Site running slow as hell right now for some reason)

I wish CNN ran programs like that.
CNN has been slower than hell lately, whats up with that YOO~
1.2 billion people and IIS, scary combination :P

but to use real numbers i think it is closer to 2 million hits a minute or something during heavy news cycles. that is the last 'real' number i've heard. but i wouldnt be surprised if that number is outdated and is in fact higher.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

If you call protecting major cities from mushroom clouds arrogance, then you redefine the term.

You can't piddle around with threats like this.



On disarming of Saddam:
“…The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq. The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.”
President Bill Clinton 12/16/98



Do you honestly want to play footsy with a soon to be nuclear Saddam?
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Post by miir »

Adex_Xeda wrote:If you call protecting major cities from mushroom clouds arrogance, then you redefine the term.

You can't piddle around with threats like this.
Mushroom clouds?
Since when is Iraq a nuclear threat?
What (non forged) 'proof' has been uncovered that would indicate Iraq has any sort of nuclear capability?
When has Iraq ever threatened a pre-emtive strike against the USA?
Where is the threat?
When did Iraq threaten to use any sort of WOMD against any european target?

Arrogance mixed with ignorance.


If George W Bush makes claims that a country has nuclear weapons and intends to use them on cilvilain targets there should be some sort of proof required to back it up.



Arrogance is expcting the world to believe the claims of your countries leader without question.




I've been saying all along....
Show some proof to your president's claims and this would be a non issue.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

If Saddam honestly had nothing to hide he would of proved that fact when he had the chance. He chose however the route of cheat and retreat.

When the stakes are this high, we have to go in there and make 100% sure.
Last edited by Adex_Xeda on March 18, 2003, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

There will not be nuclear fallout in NY, London, Berlin, or Paris because of us
On balance and in the long term I think you've increased this possibility not decreased it.
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Post by Voronwë »

it is very tough to make a nuclear weapon in secret.

that is why we know how many weapons North Korea has.

We know that Iran is relatively close to producing the material to make a weapon.

I think Israel is the only country to ever secretly develope a nuclear weapon.

Iraq has certainly tried to initiate the early stages of nuclear weapon development in the past, but i'm not sure they ever really got very far.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Taking action *might* produce new dangers.

Inaction *guarantees* a danger.
Last edited by Adex_Xeda on March 18, 2003, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by miir »

He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war.
Sorta like the USA in the Vietnam war?

Not only against soldiers, but against civilians
Like the USA in WW2 and in the Vietnam war?


firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran
Since none of those missles ever hit thier targets and were intercepted shortly after launch, who's to say exactly where they were headed?
Perhaps they were aimed at US bases in the aforementioned countries.

Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq
The USA incited the Kurdish rebellion in Iraq.
The Kurds were originally promised support but the US backed out.
The Kurds are Saddams enemy.

The use of chem/bio weapons is heinous and I don;'t support it in any way, but to state that Saddam used bio/chem weapons 'on his own people' is totally taken out of context. He used bio/chem weapons on his enemies.


The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.”
Shortly after that, the UN weapon inspectors were ordered out of Iraq by the United States.
Ironic, isn't it?



Do you honestly want to play footsy with a soon to be nuclear Saddam?
Saddam does not have nuclear wepaons, jackass.
The evidence that the CIA has linking him to the attempted purchase of 500 tons of uranium were found to be forgeries.
There has never been any evidence (that wasn't forged) proving Saddam Hussein has any nuclear capability.
The exact opposite is true... weapons grade plutonium and nuclear devices are easily detectable due ot the enormous amounts of radiation given off. If Iraq had these materials or weapons, the UN and the USA would know.
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Post by kyoukan »

Gurugurumaki wrote:Will you think the war is unnecessary, if we find WMD (legit ones)? If so, then there is no sense in arguing until the war is over. Quein es Droopy?
sorry but any footage I see of huge piles of sooper seekrit weapons of mass destruction I will most assuredly see being uncovered in Iraq will be tainted by the fact that they will most like be plants by the US to justify their conquest.

I have no doubt there will be lots and lots of WMD's found all over Iraq. :roll:
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Post by miir »

Taking action *might* produce new dangers.

Inaction *guarantees* a danger
When the stakes are this high, we have to go in there and make 100% sure.
The threat presented by leaving Saddam alone is certain.

Speculating on the future is not.

Oh for fuck sakes.
Now your just spewing rhetoric.


You can't back up your statements so you resort to sloganeering...
Pathetic



How many more bushisms and cliches ahve you got up your ass?
Last edited by miir on March 18, 2003, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by masteen »

So you think it's perfectly fine to leave him alone with his evolving missile program and established chem & bioweapons? Here's a hot tip: it's not real fucking hard to make long range missiles. The toughest part is acquiring the guidance electronics.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

sorry but any footage I see of huge piles of sooper seekrit weapons of mass destruction I will most assuredly see being uncovered in Iraq will be tainted by the fact that they will most like be plants by the US to justify their conquest.


Just my point Kyo.


There is no proof that you or Miir would accept.


Because of this, I leave you alone with your opinion and get on with I and others belive best.
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Post by miir »

So you think it's perfectly fine to leave him alone with his evolving missile program and established chem & bioweapons?
What 'evolving missle program' and 'established chem & bioweapons'?

While I agree that the burden of proof must lie partially on Iraq that they don't have such weapons, the USA should assume some of that burden before they launch a military offensive.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Taking action *might* produce new dangers.

Inaction *guarantees* a danger
Taking action *guarantees* new dangers except in the mind of the most insanely optimistic, naiive American.

Inaction maintains the same level of threat that has existed for 5 years without any problem. But nobody is advocating inaction. We are advocating patience, prudence, self restraint and allowing international processes to take their course.
So you think it's perfectly fine to leave him alone with his evolving missile program and established chem & bioweapons?
NO YOU FUCKING DOLT.
That's why we have UN weapons inspectors and surveillance and resolutions backing up the use of force.
It's using plan (b) before plan (a) has been given a chance that has the world so pissed off.
DO YOU GET IT YET?
Last edited by vn_Tanc on March 18, 2003, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kyoukan »

masteen wrote:So you think it's perfectly fine to leave him alone with his evolving missile program and established chem & bioweapons? Here's a hot tip: it's not real fucking hard to make long range missiles. The toughest part is acquiring the guidance electronics.
who's attacking who? Right now I am a lot more worried about the united states than I am of some backwater 3rd world shithole that has a leader who isn't even in control of his entire country. Now that I see how fast American public opinion can be swayed to illegally invade another nation I don't see how anyone is safe.
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Post by masteen »

We sold him the shit, what more proof do you need?
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Miir,

I have a choice,

Either I can break out in six page monologues that no one will read.

Or, I can sum up my thoughts into concise statements.

Your discounting them as sloganeering, is a failure to consider that this is a messageboard.
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Post by miir »

I leave you alone with your opinion and get on with I and others belive best
ROFL, did Dubya and Johnnie Chochane just put out a book of cliched slogans?

You sound like a brainwashed, retard Adex.

I can sum up my thoughts into concise statements.
There's nothing concise about your posts.
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Post by miir »

masteen wrote:We sold him the shit, what more proof do you need?
15-20 years ago.
Chem/Bio agents do not have a shelf life of 15-20 years.


Inaction maintains the same level of threat that has existed for 5 years without any problem. But nobody is advocating inaction. We are advocating patience, prudence, self restraint and allowing international processes to take their course.
Due dilligence to Texans = inaction
Last edited by miir on March 18, 2003, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Voronwë »

masteen wrote:We sold him the shit, what more proof do you need?
Maybe he has a receipt? :P
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Post by Gurugurumaki »

masteen wrote:We sold him the shit, what more proof do you need?
We need proof that he destroyed it, which I don't think has been supplied for the most part. Its all relative at this point, US and its allies are going to invade Iraq, can't argue that fact. God save the queen~
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Heh,

You've resorted to slinging gradeschool putdowns.

Chill out Miir.
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Post by Gurugurumaki »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Heh,

You've resorted to slinging gradeschool putdowns.

Chill out Miir.
Umm, I know you are but what am I?

I'm rubber and youre...err nm.
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Post by Dalmoth »

Ya know I've had it with all these pansy ass people that don't see Sadam for what he is.

North Korean is engaging in nuclear blackmail even as we state. With nuclear weapons Sadam would have rolled into Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for good. There is good reason why the other Arab states want to see him removed from power, they fear him. His goals are conquest, no one with that agenda can be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons, period.

This is 1938 all over again. Much of Europe is denying the nature of this snake until he bites their hand. He's had 12 years to come clean and he hasn't, we're going in there and yes we KNOW he has WMD because we SOLD some to him that he hasn't declared.

And irregardless of that, if we go in and find jack shit, I'm prepared to take the heat for being arrogant americans. Hell, we take the heat for everything anyway, whats a little more.

As to the French issue. Who gies a flying fuck what they have to say. They are protecting their business interests and building anti-american sentiment while doing and I don't really care. They are 3,000 miles away and pose no clear threat to us. And then even given this debacle, if they get overrun by an agressor nation again in the next 2 decades, we'll be there to help them because its what we do.
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Post by miir »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Heh,

You've resorted to slinging gradeschool putdowns.

Chill out Miir.
Well, since you didn;t address any of my points and chose to spew slogans, I simply dropped down to a level of discussion that you can easily relate to...


Fuck the facts, fuck the proof....
Let's just pull 1 line slogans/insults out of our ass and pound our chests.


Nah, the US isn't arrogant at all.
They are a country full of overbearing, self righteous, sanctimonious, egotistic, derisive windbags.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Honestly,

We're not going to change each other's minds here.


The amount of proof required by Miir and Kyo is much to high for anyone to provide.


The amount of persuasion necessary to sway me would require much more homework than anyone here is willing to bother with.


When a thread gets to this point it boils down to two sides trying to position each other into doing research that neither cares to bother with.

"You prove it"

"No YOU prove it"

etc...


Thow in a couple bouts of "You are self rightgeous windbag retard" and I'd call it a dead thread.
Last edited by Adex_Xeda on March 18, 2003, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Atokal »

miir wrote:


firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran
Since none of those missles ever hit thier targets and were intercepted shortly after launch, who's to say exactly where they were headed?
Perhaps they were aimed at US bases in the aforementioned countries.
Sorry pally but the scuds DID land in Israel. Perhaps you should do a little research. Making your following statement apply to you as well.
miir wrote:
You can't back up your statements so you resort to sloganeering...
Pathetic



How many more bushisms and cliches ahve you got up your ass?
Pathetic is how our Prime Minister Cretin has responded to this situation.

Cheers
[/b]
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Post by miir »

Never argue with an egghead who uses the word "irregardless"
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

*whistles*

FOUL, Miir 5 yard penalty, Hypocritical sloganeering.
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