VV Election Poll - August 2008

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 31, 2008, 11:09 pm

So, who are you planning to vote for? (I only ask because my ignore list is feeling a little light).

A. Obama/Biden - A man who realises, as does the rest of the planet and most of the USA, that Iraq was a terrible stupid decision from the get go. A man who has repeatedly risen above the Rovian politics of the past and reclaimed a degree of dignity to the United States, who has a clear plan for the next 10 years in many areas, and which will, if history teaches us anything, expand coherently upon those plans. Some of which involve reducing the inexcusable American national deficit, cutting taxes for 95% of the American populace, desiring equal opportunities in education for all Americans, minimising the cataclysmic destruction of global disgust with the US, creating a slightly less bumblefuck redneck rovian attitude to issues that deserve to be treated with thought and not tribalism that begins and ends with "HEY HE SURE DOES LOOK LIKE A FUN GENOCIDAL GUY TO HAVE A BEER WITH", finding common ground between a polarised nation, creating positive history, acknowleding a key time in American politics and providing answers that are logical, sound and non-polarising.

OR

B: McCain/Palin (Lol) - Anti Abortion in all cases, even in cases of rape and incest. Believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. Will claim to follow "Bin Laden to the gates of hell" but refuse to follow him even to the door of his cave. Thinks that introducing neophyte 10th century soccer mom = "maverick" nonsense.

Feel free to state your opinion in a post, so I can ignore as needed. Because ultimately, if you're prepared to overlook a candidate who has their finger on the fucking button that believes the exact word of god and believes that creationism should be tought alongside Evolution and vote for them this year. Well, wow, you're a fucking neanderthal who I would love to not know. So if you have the right balance between balls and abject stupidity to vote for the latter, why not let us all know, especially you Winnow. So we can cut you out of our reading, and pursue more legitimate things, than watching asshole cavemen defend the indefensible.

Have fun.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » September 1, 2008, 12:29 am

I have a feeling this poll will lean heavily towards Obama, simply because many who would vote for McCain frequently leave the board in tiffs. Except for Kyo. She'd vote for Gwen Stefani.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 1, 2008, 12:41 am

This board doesn't reflect the real vote as has been made clear in the past.

I chose team elephant because Nick's a tool and this poll can't hope to offer any meaningful results on a liberal, five whines and you're out, board like VV.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 1, 2008, 1:37 am

What happened to all the great change from the 2006 election? I mean, wasnt there some sort of shift in the house and senate? Am I mistaken or wasnt there supposed to be widespread change and good feelings for all? Honestly, is Georgy that smart to keep down both the House and Senate or is it a matter of not really making a fucking difference who you vote for once they get 'in' office.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 1:56 am

Trek wrote:What happened to all the great change from the 2006 election? I mean, wasnt there some sort of shift in the house and senate? Am I mistaken or wasnt there supposed to be widespread change and good feelings for all? Honestly, is Georgy that smart to keep down both the House and Senate or is it a matter of not really making a fucking difference who you vote for once they get 'in' office.

The majority held by the Democratic party is too thin to actually accomplish much, particularly within the Senate due to Traitor Joe and the nearly year-long absence of Tim Johnson as he recovered from a stroke. Taking advantage of this fact, the Republicans can, and have blocked the progress of much of the Democratic agenda. It matters who you vote for, we just need stronger Democratic majorities in both houses and in control of the Executive Branch (or veto-proof majorities) to really make any kind of significant progress.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 1, 2008, 2:17 am

Trek wrote:What happened to all the great change from the 2006 election? I mean, wasnt there some sort of shift in the house and senate? Am I mistaken or wasnt there supposed to be widespread change and good feelings for all? Honestly, is Georgy that smart to keep down both the House and Senate or is it a matter of not really making a fucking difference who you vote for once they get 'in' office.

I wouldn't care if democrats went in there and sat on their hands and did nothing, which would be a dramatic improvement over the catastrophic degradation of our nation by the republicans. It is really a hilarious line of thinking you have, that your party is allowed to fuck this country in the ass and then have the gall to blame democrats for not fixing it quickly and/or efficiently enough. I'm content with simply not being fucked in the ass.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » September 1, 2008, 2:56 am

Republicans don't deserve a second chance on McCain after they screwed up so hard with Bush.

valryte · Post by **valryte** » September 1, 2008, 3:27 am

Republicans don't deserve a second chance on McCain after they screwed up so hard with Bush.

I think technically it would be a third chance since Bush got 2 terms...

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 1, 2008, 5:06 am

We've seen what 8 years of Republican rule did to America. They were somehow able to reverse all the good from the 8 years Clinton was in office. If Obama can reverse the damage that Bush has done, he will be the greatest President of all time. There's no way he will be able to though. It's a lot harder to fix shit than it is to fuck it up, and Bush has set some serious records in the fuck up department.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 1, 2008, 10:32 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:We've seen what 8 years of Republican rule did to America. They were somehow able to reverse all the good from the 8 years Clinton was in office. If Obama can reverse the damage that Bush has done, he will be the greatest President of all time. There's no way he will be able to though. It's a lot harder to fix shit than it is to fuck it up, and Bush has set some serious records in the fuck up department.

What a bunch of crap. Reagan had to fix an ailing America. He did it through strengthening the military. We'll have a term or two of democrats taking a dump on our military and then it will take another Republican in the White House to set things right. That's if it's not too late.

Look for another Iran hostage type crisis with Obama doing jack shit about it. He says he won't hesitate to defend America but he's going to be a total puss in situations overseas. Look for Americans abroad to get bitch slapped as it's quickly determined that Obama won't do anything about it, weaking our ability to police the world, allowing 2nd tier countries like Russia and China to cause chaos all over the globe.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 1, 2008, 11:19 am

Xyun wrote:
I wouldn't care if democrats went in there and sat on their hands and did nothing, which would be a dramatic improvement over the catastrophic degradation of our nation by the republicans. It is really a hilarious line of thinking you have, that your party is allowed to fuck this country in the ass and then have the gall to blame democrats for not fixing it quickly and/or efficiently enough. I'm content with simply not being fucked in the ass.

Yeah, doing nothing is better then trying to fix our problems. I dont see how everything can be blamed on the Republicans when the House and Senate have been controlled by the Dems for 2 years and things keep getting worse. So go ahead and be content with not being fucked in the ass while your getting a massive money shot on your face by all your saviors. Two years is plenty of time to do something, I cant believe you think 2 years nothing at all can be done but 4 years will be enough.

Feel free to put me on ignore, or spew random shit about how I am a psyco redneck because I own firearms. I also have my own oppinions and dont follow party lines with every issue but can only laugh at the interweb rage you all seem to have but do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT except come here and namecall anyone who doesnt agree with you. Get off your fat ass and do something about it, run for office, get involved more then casting a ballot once every 2 years and crying about how things suck. Take a real stand for what you believe in if your that angry.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » September 1, 2008, 11:28 am

In situations like that in politics, when one side is in charge but the other has the power, the latter doesn't want to do anything to make the guy in charge look good. They would rather wait until they are in charge so they look good. Both sides are guilty of this.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 11:32 am

Reagan-worshiping people make me laugh. It's a shame the senile old bag of hate didn't die when his acting career did.

Also, Trek, you keep missing (or ignoring) the real reason for the perceived lack of accomplishments by the Democratic Party over the last couple of years. It has nothing to do with choosing to do nothing, or even with waiting until they're fully in power to get the credit. It's about numbers, pure and simple. I'll quote myself here:

Xatrei wrote:The majority held by the Democratic party is too thin to actually accomplish much, particularly within the Senate due to Traitor Joe and the nearly year-long absence of Tim Johnson as he recovered from a stroke. Taking advantage of this fact, the Republicans can, and have blocked the progress of much of the Democratic agenda. It matters who you vote for, we just need stronger Democratic majorities in both houses and in control of the Executive Branch (or veto-proof majorities) to really make any kind of significant progress.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 1, 2008, 11:37 am

OK so fucking dumbass Georgy outsmarted everyone and still manages to make things worse, how is it he can make things worse all by himself? Personally I cant wait for him to be out of office, but to lay blame on 1 idiot is pretty simplistic even for a liberal

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » September 1, 2008, 12:46 pm

I'm still undecided, but I voted for McCain/Palin in the poll because that's where I'm leaning right now. I don't like either VP candidate, or either candidate for that matter. If I do vote for Obama, it will probably be in hopes that we can maintain some sort of balance in the Supreme Court if any justices leave.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 12:47 pm

Trek wrote:OK so fucking dumbass Georgy outsmarted everyone and still manages to make things worse, how is it he can make things worse all by himself? Personally I cant wait for him to be out of office, but to lay blame on 1 idiot is pretty simplistic even for a liberal

WTF are you even talking about? It's not a matter of outsmarting anyone, it's a matter of simply not having strong enough numbers to force their agenda through the Congress. Are you hung over or actually too stupid to understand simple concepts?

Syenye wrote:If I do vote for Obama, it will probably be in hopes that we can maintain some sort of balance in the Supreme Court if any justices leave.

If this is a concern of yours, consider the type of justices McSame promises to appoint: More like Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts. Think for a minute about what that would mean, when as many as 3 justices will step down over the next few years.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » September 1, 2008, 1:28 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Syenye wrote:If I do vote for Obama, it will probably be in hopes that we can maintain some sort of balance in the Supreme Court if any justices leave.
If this is a concern of yours, consider the type of justices McSame promises to appoint: More like Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts. Think for a minute about what that would mean, when as many as 3 justices will step down over the next few years.

That was the point. I'd pick Obama to maintain the balance.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 1:32 pm

I understand your point. My point was that I don't understand how you can even be considering McCain if you care at all about the makeup of the Supreme Court.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » September 1, 2008, 1:41 pm

Xatrei wrote:I understand your point. My point was that I don't understand how you can even be considering McCain if you care at all about the makeup of the Supreme Court.

I dislike Obama's positions more so than McCains, at least the ones that he has the power to do anything about. So before I vote, I have to decide what's more important to me: the chance that the Supreme Court will become more even right-leaning or the chance that Obama will actually act on some of the his stupid ideas.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 1:45 pm

I'm curious. If you don't mind sharing your opinion, on what specific issues do you see McCain's position as being preferable to Obama's? I'm not looking to argue or anything, I'm truly interested to see how a self-described undecided is weighing the issues.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » September 1, 2008, 2:28 pm

I hope Nick is not kidding and does ignore anyone who doesn't vote for Obama. The depth of his maturity would come shining through right there. You are the perfect example of what special interest group types have become. Listen to me, blah blah blah, I am always right and if for some reason I may not be, then I will just scream louder to drown you out. I am glad you are railing against the system, the world needs those types to keep things in check, but try ,at some point, to keep an open mind. No one is right 100% of the time.

I am voting Obama unless something crazy occurs in the coming months. I will say that the rampant rumors and speculation and second guessing regarding Palin is hilarious. Many of those types of things flew about Obama and the left leaning people on this board told everyone to pass it off as false or not important, but you guys are the first to jump on almost every rumor or statement that comes out about Palin.

Xyun, please tell me you don't believe that the last 8 years have been totally the Republicans fault? 4 years ago the Democrats were touting the fact they took control of congress showed the American people were ready for new leadership and changes and we got....NOTHING. Small majority or not, the Democrats controlled enough power to change things. Bush had become such a symbol of failure that the Democrats could have shifted the votes of several Republicans just by implying it would rid them of the taint of Bush. The fact is that while there is 2 parties, they are run by people who have the same agenda, to look out for themself. Democrat or Republican, they only worry about coming back for another term.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » September 1, 2008, 2:37 pm

Tyek, your history is a bit off. Democrats have not yet held the majority for 2 full years. It was 2006 when they won power in both houses. People really need to look closer at what's actually happening in both houses of Congress if they think that having a razor-thin majority hasn't hampered the Democrats efforts to make some actual progress. The Republicans have successfully stalled or derailed many of the Democrats efforts.

For the record, I'm a registered Democrat, but do not consider myself to be a Democrat because the party is far too conservative for my tastes. It is the the only viable party available that represents my interests, however, in this broken two party system of ours.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » September 1, 2008, 2:41 pm

My bad on the dates. I agree with you about the parties though. I am a Republican because they USED to preach less government intervention. Now both parties try to create as many jobs for their cronies as humanly possible.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » September 1, 2008, 2:46 pm

If I've misunderstood any of these policies, please enlighten me.

Social Security:
-McCain supports personal accounts for SS.
-Obama thinks that increased tax revenue will keep SS afloat. No personal accounts.

Healthcare:
-Obama's position on pharmaceuticals could be devastating to drug research in America. Fortunately, he doesn't really have the power to do the things he wants, like allow the US govt to negotiate drug prices or change patent law.

Energy:
-McCain wants new nuclear power plants.
-Obama's "Use it or Lose it" policy for oil and natural gas leases... I don't understand how anyone could think this is a good idea.
-Both support plug-in hybrids (awesome).

Tech:
-McCain is against net neutrality and would have veto power.
-Biden <3s the RIAA and MPAA but his power would be make believe.

Issues I think they're about the same on:
-immigration
-VP: Biden is evil, Palin is scary, but neither really matters.

Big issues for me are anything that affects healthcare and science funding and the energy industry.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » September 1, 2008, 3:10 pm

Americans’ view of Congress hit an all-time low in June, sliding into single digits for the first time ever, according to Rasmussen Reports polling data.

Only 9% of voters surveyed said that Congress is doing a good or excellent job, down from 11% the previous month. The majority of those surveyed (52%) said that Congress is doing a poor job.

I don't think you should be placing all the blame on the Republicans. I have not seen a lot of bills pushed through by the Democrats theat the Republicans shot down. I know there were a few, but little with "sweeping changes." The only reason change is an issue is because they know the citizens are unhappy. If they were not they would jump on some other hot button issue. I guess my question to you would be, If Obama gets elected and has even a minor majority in congress and the only thing he changes is my taxes, is that the Republicans fault too?

Support for Congress among Democratic voters dropped from 17% to 13%. Among Republicans, congressional approval went up modestly from 7% to 8%. Only 3% of unaffiliated voters thought Congress was doing a good job, down from 6% the previous month.

I am voting for Obama because I want someone who is not so inside at Washington in the hopes that he will push some new thinking. I am not optomistic though. If your main solution is to raise taxes and I already pay more then the average household income in said taxes, you can imagine my concern.

If all business was run the way congress was, we would have no companies left in the US. Both parties are to blame for this fiasco and changing to one party is not going to fix things, sorry.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 2, 2008, 1:30 am

Tyek wrote: Xyun, please tell me you don't believe that the last 8 years have been totally the Republicans fault? 4 years ago the Democrats were touting the fact they took control of congress showed the American people were ready for new leadership and changes and we got....NOTHING. Small majority or not, the Democrats controlled enough power to change things. Bush had become such a symbol of failure that the Democrats could have shifted the votes of several Republicans just by implying it would rid them of the taint of Bush. The fact is that while there is 2 parties, they are run by people who have the same agenda, to look out for themself. Democrat or Republican, they only worry about coming back for another term.

No, I totally agree that most democrats in the legislature are spineless cowards. They have had countless opportunities to at the very least apply some lube to the ass raping, but they've folded. They take beatings and cry instead of fight back, which is part of the reason our image is so shameful. This is the reason Winnow can make posts like he did without inhibition, because he thinks that democrats would rather not fight. However, unlike other dems in congress, Obama's got a set. He is neither hawk, nor dove. The way he is bitch slapping McCain around on every issue including foreign policy should at least give Winnow pause before he makes ignorant posts like the one above. Obama is a different kind of democrat, and his tenure will renew our foreign policy credentials, as well as the way democrats fight in the political arena.

However, I do put a tremendous amount of blame on the Bush administration. I'm not as far left as I like to pretend sometimes, but I do cherish the constitution as if it is sacred, in much the same way that Christians cherish the bible. The Iraq invasion is a policy that I adamantly disagree with, but I cannot disregard the fact that it was rubber-stamped by Republicans and Democrats alike, and it did not violate the constitution. It is the gross violations of the highest of American laws and the blatant criminality of this administration that ultimately makes me despise them and fuels my fire. There is no question that they repeatedly defecate on the constitution to any objective and intelligent observer, the prime example being presidential signing statements. There is also no question in my mind that McCain is an extension of that, not because of the Obama propaganda campaign, but because of the McCain propaganda campaign: the art of distraction. The only reason to distract is to get away with something. I believe that is what ultimately allowed Bush to do what he has done, and I see McCain behave identically. But why distract? I believe wholeheartedly that they plan to continue the trampling of our rights, the abject dismantling of our constitution, and the commandeering of our government by the executive branch. Therefore my highest priority is helping to elect Obama.

Trek wrote:Get off your fat ass and do something about it, run for office, get involved more then casting a ballot once every 2 years and crying about how things suck. Take a real stand for what you believe in if your that angry.

Don't worry sir, I'm doing exactly that, in a more profound way than I ever thought I would, and in a more vigorous way than you could possibly imagine. Because I really am that angry.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » September 2, 2008, 1:35 am

Xyun, I don't know how to respond to that. It was thought out and well stated. Call me fuckwit or retard, because that was way too coherant for this board.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 2, 2008, 9:45 am

Syenye wrote:Big issues for me are anything that affects healthcare and science funding and the energy industry.

Palin is against stem cell research. I think she's against pretty much anything science. She's a creationist and oppossed to sexual education. I'm sure there's a lot more. She would be a heartbeat away from becoming President. I do not know a single a woman voting for Palin. She is Ann Coulter with tact and without the horse face.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 2, 2008, 1:41 pm

I think that McCain is mostly trying to distract the ultra conservatives instead of liberals. He has a tough road in making people on the far right think he has the same ideals as Bush while making the independants understand that he is not. The real tricky thing with these 2 candidates is that both of them lean MUCH further to the left than they are trying to appear to their bases.

I can tell you now that having a Socialist runnng a Capitalist society would be a very bad thing for the middle class. He can talk all he wants about the taxes only affecting the rich, but with no veto power of the GOP in the White House, his little liberal buddies will have a field day with their social program spending that we will be paying for.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 2, 2008, 2:25 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I think that McCain is mostly trying to distract the ultra conservatives instead of liberals. He has a tough road in making people on the far right think he has the same ideals as Bush while making the independants understand that he is not. The real tricky thing with these 2 candidates is that both of them lean MUCH further to the left than they are trying to appear to their bases.

If that was his intent, I think it is a major mistake. He already had the ultra conservative vote. The far right may not care for McCain, but they hate the other guy more. A lot more.

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I can tell you now that having a Socialist runnng a Capitalist society would be a very bad thing for the middle class. He can talk all he wants about the taxes only affecting the rich, but with no veto power of the GOP in the White House, his little liberal buddies will have a field day with their social program spending that we will be paying for.

Well, if given the choice, I would rather have had the hundreds of billions of dollars spent here in the states instead of the war in Iraq. I cannot imagine a scenerio where Obama will spend anything remotely close to what the Republican party has managed to blow in the past 8 years. They have broken some serious records on spending and racking up debt. My fucking grandkids will be paying for this war. So excuse me if I'm not scared by your worst case "liberal" scenerio.

valryte · Post by **valryte** » September 2, 2008, 2:41 pm

I can tell you now that having a Socialist runnng a Capitalist society would be a very bad thing for the middle class. He can talk all he wants about the taxes only affecting the rich, but with no veto power of the GOP in the White House, his little liberal buddies will have a field day with their social program spending that we will be paying for.

Well, if given the choice, I would rather have had the hundreds of billions of dollars spent here in the states instead of the war in Iraq. I cannot imagine a scenerio where Obama will spend anything remotely close to what the Republican party has managed to blow in the past 8 years. They have broken some serious records on spending and racking up debt. My fucking grandkids will be paying for this war. So excuse me if I'm not scared by your worst case "liberal" scenerio.

I was about to say the same thing. I love how someone will make a comment about how much money the liberals will spend on their social programs and at the same time completely ignoring how much the Republicans have spent. Come on Kilmoll, I know you're smarter than that. So lets just leave out the argument of which party will spend more of our money, it's pointless.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 2, 2008, 7:08 pm

One of the most egregious ways Dubya has abused his power is the way he used extended signing statements to build in his interpretation of legislation. It's not his fucking job to do that. Interpretation is the purview of the judicial, not the goddamn executive. He's run so many ends a round that the Constitution looks like a Goddamn maypole.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 2, 2008, 10:36 pm

masteen wrote:One of the most egregious ways Dubya has abused his power is the way he used extended signing statements to build in his interpretation of legislation. It's not his fucking job to do that. Interpretation is the purview of the judicial, not the goddamn executive. He's run so many ends a round that the Constitution looks like a Goddamn maypole.

I have much more of a problem with judges legislating from the bench - something I can't see getting any better if Mr. "I want to change the constitution" Obama. That's one of my biggest concerns, actually.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 2, 2008, 11:09 pm

valryte wrote:
I can tell you now that having a Socialist runnng a Capitalist society would be a very bad thing for the middle class. He can talk all he wants about the taxes only affecting the rich, but with no veto power of the GOP in the White House, his little liberal buddies will have a field day with their social program spending that we will be paying for.

Well, if given the choice, I would rather have had the hundreds of billions of dollars spent here in the states instead of the war in Iraq. I cannot imagine a scenerio where Obama will spend anything remotely close to what the Republican party has managed to blow in the past 8 years. They have broken some serious records on spending and racking up debt. My fucking grandkids will be paying for this war. So excuse me if I'm not scared by your worst case "liberal" scenerio.
I was about to say the same thing. I love how someone will make a comment about how much money the liberals will spend on their social programs and at the same time completely ignoring how much the Republicans have spent. Come on Kilmoll, I know you're smarter than that. So lets just leave out the argument of which party will spend more of our money, it's pointless.

Except you are failing to understand that they STILL will have to pay for the war and the exit. The Dem controlled Congress is the one that approved the last funding for it.....all you will be doing is adding social programs to the war bill. Lets not forget that McCain did not push the war through....he was not responsible for the faulty intel. Sure he did follow the party line on that vote....as did a large number of Demorats. Obama did not vote for the war...and he also did NOT vote against it. There is no possible way to know how he would actualyl have voted if he was a meber of Congress at that time and having his strings pulled by the special interest groups.

Would I like for us to not have to pay for that war? Damn right. Of course if we really wanted to put money back into the US, we should pull out ALL foreign aid until we have our deficit fixed. Let the world go straight to hell and deal with it themselves.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 2, 2008, 11:20 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Lets not forget that McCain did not push the war through....he was not responsible for the faulty intel. Sure he did follow the party line on that vote....as did a large number of Demorats.

I call bullshit on this. He was cheerleading against Iraq shortly after 9/11. He blamed the recently "solved" anthrax attacks on Iraq. McCain was one of the neocons that pushed the Iraq invasion. You still believe the faulty intel ruse?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 3, 2008, 12:25 am

Forthe wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Lets not forget that McCain did not push the war through....he was not responsible for the faulty intel. Sure he did follow the party line on that vote....as did a large number of Demorats.
I call bullshit on this. He was cheerleading against Iraq shortly after 9/11. He blamed the recently "solved" anthrax attacks on Iraq. McCain was one of the neocons that pushed the Iraq invasion. You still believe the faulty intel ruse?

LETTERMAN: How are things going in Afghanistan now?

MCCAIN: I think we’re doing fine …. I think we’ll do fine. The second phase — if I could just make one, very quickly — the second phase is Iraq. There is some indication, and I don’t have the conclusions, but some of this anthrax may — and I emphasize may — have come from Iraq.

LETTERMAN: Oh is that right?

MCCAIN: If that should be the case, that’s when some tough decisions are gonna have to be made.

McCain warned once again that Iraq was next. “The crunch time will be if – and emphasize if – we have to go after Iraq, and then that coalition could be strained,”

This is cheerleading?

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 3, 2008, 8:38 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:This is cheerleading?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/636/

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » September 3, 2008, 9:11 am

Lol. Poms-poms and all.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » September 3, 2008, 11:47 am

What about "None of the Above"?

I am pretty independent and Obama, McCain and Barr were pretty even for me. I certainly won't vote for McCain now since he chose Palin. I feel really really insulted by that pick. The only people who like her are those that are too stupid to realize that she was picked to get stupid people to believe she is the Hillary clone for GOP. That and the fact that McCain is one blowjob from death (and probably suffers from alzheimers already) means that Palin is too damn close to the presidency. Palin as president would make Bush look like JFK.

That leaves Obama and Barr for me. Obama definitely has his issues. I don't like the thought of more social spending but I like that he would (or so he says) get out of Iraq quicker. I think he is way closer to the common man than McCain is. Taking Biden didn't damage him in my opinion but only helped in that he got someone knowledgeable on foreign relations.

Barr is only a choice as a protest vote. I seriously don't like him. He is pulling a Pat Buchanan on the Libertarian party. How he went from being a Top-10 target by the Libertarian party to its nominee I'll never know. I would never vote for him if he had a shot at winning.

If Wisconsin looks to be in danger of falling to McCain, then I will vote for Obama. Otherwise my vote is Barr's.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 3, 2008, 1:10 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I think that McCain is mostly trying to distract the ultra conservatives instead of liberals. He has a tough road in making people on the far right think he has the same ideals as Bush while making the independants understand that he is not. The real tricky thing with these 2 candidates is that both of them lean MUCH further to the left than they are trying to appear to their bases.
If that was his intent, I think it is a major mistake. He already had the ultra conservative vote. The far right may not care for McCain, but they hate the other guy more. A lot more.

I disagree. There was a ton of pressure coming down from the GOP to put the religious right agenda forward. Those folks wouldn't have shown up at the polls unless he could convince them he would do what he could to further their interests. In this regard, I think Kilm is 100% correct. McCain needs their backing to put him in, so he has to distract the religious dimwits just enough to show up at the polls. And it's sad because a lot of Reagan Reps just want a strong military with a fiscally conservative guy that stays out of their personal life. All of the religious shit blocks the "stays out of personal life" part.

The real tricky thing with these 2 candidates is that both of them lean MUCH further to the left than they are trying to appear to their bases.

Re-quoting that line because I also agree with this 100%. McCain needs the religious loonies and Obama needs the people that were so adamant in Hillary's camp.
It's the only way Obama can win Ohio and Pennsylvania. And he will need both as I don't think he has a chance in hell of winning Florida.

For the record, I'm voting for Obama. Biden was actually my favorite candidate on the Dem nominees w/ Dodd a close second. When Obama picked him, I knew where I was going. And while it may surprise some, I've voted independent in the last three elections for various reasons as I'm so sick of the "wasted vote" argument. Sure, the two party system pretty much forces you in a direction, but that's why I liked somebody like Perot and would like someone like Bloomberg to move in. They can finance the whole thing themselves.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 3, 2008, 11:04 pm

Obama's problem in winning Ohio is that Ohio has a Dem governor that even the Republicans like....and he WON'T back Obama. He flat out refused to even be considered as a VP for Obama and he would have made it a slam dunk ticket. He also has refused to say that he can even help deliver the state to Ohio. If he flat out backed Obama it would help tremendously...but it is apparent that he does not buy into Nobama. I believe McCain will win Ohio and then it will be a dogfight in Pennsylvania which McCain has ties to.

edit: I would love to see the party system completely abolished and have people voting by their true views instead of this party line crap we see today. It is another reason I actually back McCain more so than recent GOP candidates.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 3, 2008, 11:21 pm

How is that a reason to vote for McCain? Have you been following the reality of the last 12 months?

I do agree with you though. Except for that.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 3, 2008, 11:35 pm

Palin's currently kicking some ass in her speech.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » September 3, 2008, 11:46 pm

Maybe she's just good at reading a teleprompter.. lolz

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 3, 2008, 11:52 pm

Kicking ass? Are you deaf and blind? This is embarrassing. Spread your legs a little wider Winnow.

Surely this election is over? By any reasonable intellectual standard this is a one horse race.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 3, 2008, 11:54 pm

I'll take that trade. Presidential Candidate Obama can read a teleprompter and VP candidate Palin can do the same. That leaves Presidential Candidate McCain to speak from the heart, forgiving a few verbal slurs from the punches he took in the mouth as a prisoner being tortured serving the U.S.!

Here comes the female vote! The special family needs vote! The nuclear, solar, geothermal , alternative fuel vote!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 3, 2008, 11:58 pm

Keep on spreading Winnow. McCain's nearly in there.

What a bad joke you have become.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 4, 2008, 12:01 am

You must be one of those euro dudes that Obama spoke to over there that doesn't get to vote for the next U.S. president.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 4, 2008, 12:03 am

And you must be one of those guys who is "laughably unintelligent".

Hey, at the end of the day, my country is doing fine, yours on the other hand, not so much. Maybe try doing the right thing for once instead of jacking off to comic book women.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 4, 2008, 12:04 am

This is the type of woman that needs to stay in Alaska. Holy shit, she is corny. I feel like I'm watching TMZ on TV. McCain's has become a tabloid candidacy, a gigantic plea for attention, be it positive or negative. Yes she will rally the base, but she will be to democrats what Hillary Clinton is to republicans. How do I know? I'm a democrat and I absolutely CANNOT stand this woman and the thought of her becoming president should McCain die makes me nauseous. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Obama or McCain August 2008