ExxonMobil CEO Defends High Profits

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 1:20 pm

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5574568&page=1

ExxonMobil CEO Defends High Profits
Rex Tillerson Discusses Industry's Future in Exclusive Interview With Charles Gibson
By LAUREN SHER
Aug. 13, 2008—

ExxonMobil CEO and chairman Rex Tillerson defended his company's staggering $11.7 billion in profits for the second quarter, saying that the company's earnings reflected the magnitude of its business operation.

"I saw someone characterize our profits the other day in terms of $1,400 in profit per second. Well, they also need to understand we paid $4,000 a second in taxes, and we spent $15,000 a second in cost," Tillerson told ABC News' Charles Gibson. "We spend $1 billion a day just running our business. So this is a business where large numbers are just characteristic of it."

ExxonMobil earned the best quarterly profit ever for a corporation, up 14 percent from last year but still below investors' expectations. While Wall Street was slightly disappointed by Exxon's earnings, some Americans were outraged by what they saw as big oil profiting at their expense. Tillerson recognized that consumers are angry about the escalating price of gas.

"I can understand why people are very upset and why they're very worried and concerned about their ability to deal with these high prices," Tillerson said. "It does bother me that much of that is directed at us. Our job is to provide energy, to provide it in a means that is reliable. And we hope we can provide it in a means that's convenient as well to the consumer."

When asked whether he agreed with Phil Gramm, Sen. John McCain's former economic adviser, who labeled America as a "nation of whiners," Tillerson said he empathizes with American consumers.

"I don't think there's any question that if these prices -- $3.50, $4 a gallon for gasoline -- and the follow-through effects on the cost of electricity [are] causing a lot of problems for a lot of Americans. ... Their budgets just are very difficult for them to accommodate this."

Supply and Demand
But Tillerson also said that the combination of new technology on the supply side and energy efficiency on the demand side will make gas more affordable for the average American.

"What we can do is add new supply and to provide means for people to use the energy more efficiently, which will help reduce demand," Tillerson said. "And that's what we're spending a lot of our effort doing, is working on both sides of the demand equation and the supply equation."

Tillerson's suggestions for energy efficiency echoed recommendations by presumptive Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama, who called for tire-inflation and proper car tuneups to provide relief to distressed voters.

"Things like providing lighter weight tires, tires that retain their pressure more efficiently, lighter weight plastics to go into vehicles to reduce vehicle weight" will help consumers use gas more efficiently, according to Tillerson.

Energy has been center stage on the campaign trail, with both Democrat and Republican sides attacking one another's proposals and calling for energy independence.

But Tillerson added that energy independence is "not realistic for the United States or almost any other country."

"I'm not sure that it's even desirable for the United States to pursue that as a goal," he said. "Our country's economy is so interdependent with the rest of the world in so many areas of, not just commodities, but capital markets. ... So I'm not sure why we would view energy any differently than the way we view the rest of our economy."

'No One Solution'
When asked about the fragility of the global market to geopolitical developments across the world, especially in oil-rich nations such as Saudi Arabia, Tillerson suggested that energy diversity provides security.

"I think the response to that is to have as many diverse supplies of energy as possible. And that means both in terms of geographic diversity. You want to expose yourself or certainly have access for the American people to as many different geographic sources of supply as possible. So the disruption in one area does not leave you ... hostage to any one area."

Last week, Obama called to "end the age of oil in our time," claiming that the United States could produce enough renewable energy to replace all U.S. imports of oil within 10 years.

But Tillerson said that "it's going to be very challenging to achieve that goal, in that period of time. And again, so much of the energy issue that the United States deals with and the world deals with, people I think do not have an appreciation for the lead times that are required."

As for John McCain's solution to "drill now, drill here," Tillerson said that instead we should focus on both efficiency and drilling.

"We can't drill our way out of this problem, just like we can't conserve our way out of this problem, just like we can't alternative fuels our way out of this problem," he said. "There is no one solution to this; there's an integrative set of solutions. And you have to undertake them all. So when the whole debate focuses around we have to choose this one solution or that, people are missing the point."

Tillerson stressed that energy policy is bigger than any one candidate, and "for people or policymakers to pick one as being the winner is really shortsighted," he said. Policy must instead be a comprehensive, long-term approach. "And that does get to the question of are we doing everything here at home that we could be doing. And I think most people have come to the realization that, for many, many years, the United States has not fully developed its own natural resources."

The Next Generation
Instead of focusing on independence, Americans "should be developing, again, all the supply sources and all the options that we can develop in a way that's efficient and is going to provide energy at a cost that Americans can afford."

Tillerson sees ExxonMobil as more than an oil company -- more of an energy company that provides natural gas and coal while exploring alternative, renewable fuels and nuclear power. He said that the company is investing $100 million in a pilot plan to examine a new technology that can separate CO2 from gas streams.

"For ExxonMobil to make a meaningful difference, we've really got to find a way to change those technologies to provide those alternative forms of energy on a much larger scale and at a cost that people can afford," Tillerson said. "It doesn't do the consumer a lot of good to substitute an alternative fuel that costs $5 for gasoline that costs $4."

Tillerson explained that the percentage of funds invested in alternative energy does not compare to the amount invested in stock buybacks for company shareholders, because "we haven't found an alternative to invest in that makes a lot of sense for us."

ExxonMobil invested $12.5 billion, a record amount of capital into exploration expenditures, in the first half of 2008. But 55 percent of their profits go to stock buyback.

"Where we need to be 20, 30, 50 years down the road is to continue to be the most efficient producer and most environmentally responsible producer of oil and natural gas, to develop the next generation -- which is not available today -- the next generation of replacement fuels for the future."

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

For those who get hardons for the evil oil companies making money. EEEEK! MONEY!!!

Post by **Sylvus** » August 14, 2008, 1:28 pm

Stephen Colbert's "Formidable Opponent" piece last night about oil prices and offshore drilling was pretty damn funny.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » August 14, 2008, 1:41 pm

On the plus side (for me at least) the oil fields I work with are setting record numbers in sales with me!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 14, 2008, 2:02 pm

INFLATE YOUR TIRES LOL

Hey Midnyte, maybe you can get one of the tire pressure gauges that McCain's party had made up to make fun of Obama's suggestion? You remember that, right? About a week later, McCain was all about tire pressure too.

There's something special about an executive explaining why it's ok for them to make billions and billions while Americans suffer. After reading that, I realy feel sorry for them. I didn't realize that record profits were so very hard to deal with. Thanks for the article, it's really nice to read about how rich people feel about their record profits instead of the daily complants by friends and coworkers who are barely scraping by, sacrificing as many niceties as they can , and changing their lifestyles to accomodate the high price of gas.

Keep fighting the good fight Midnyte. The rich love middle class rubes like you.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 14, 2008, 2:10 pm

Or, you could, like, try reading the article.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 2:25 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:INFLATE YOUR TIRES LOL

Hey Midnyte, maybe you can get one of the tire pressure gauges that McCain's party had made up to make fun of Obama's suggestion? You remember that, right? About a week later, McCain was all about tire pressure too.

There's something special about an executive explaining why it's ok for them to make billions and billions while Americans suffer. After reading that, I realy feel sorry for them. I didn't realize that record profits were so very hard to deal with. Thanks for the article, it's really nice to read about how rich people feel about their record profits instead of the daily complants by friends and coworkers who are barely scraping by, sacrificing as many niceties as they can , and changing their lifestyles to accomodate the high price of gas.

Keep fighting the good fight Midnyte. The rich love middle class rubes like you.

Unlike you I don't have disdain for the rich and sucessful. Why would I dislike someone for being sucessful? Why would I hate a company which is sucessful? You shouldn't be looking at class that way. Everyone should either be content where they are in life or be striving to be at the top. That's the American way. If you don't like it, live in a more laid back country.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » August 14, 2008, 2:41 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Unlike you I don't have disdain for the rich and sucessful. Why would I dislike someone for being sucessful? Why would I hate a company which is sucessful? You shouldn't be looking at class that way. Everyone should either be content where they are in life or be striving to be at the top. That's the American way. If you don't like it, live in a more laid back country.

You use hyperbole to simplify an argument to the point it seems foolish. People don't hate being held financially hostage by corporations and their government lapdogs, they hate the corporations because they are successful!!

The problem with the oil companies is they actively work to maintain the status quo which is in their interests but not in ours. When corporations corrupt the government to the detriment of its citizens you can expect blowback.

I can't believe he openly argued against energy independence.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 3:06 pm

My main problem with the article and the attitudes I have seen coming from oil company execs and some politicians is that they are trying hard to put the weight of this issue on the shoulders of the people by saying that the solution is for us to adapt to high prices and find other ways to make things work.

The reason I have a problem with that is it's inarguably complete bullshit. At the same time, I know it's not just the oil companies driving the prices up, it's a bunch of factors all smashed together. However, all those little factors consist of some group of rich people getting richer, bottom line.

I would guess that gas prices could be cut in half and oil companies would still make money, and the CEO's would still make obscene salaries.

The excuses as to why prices are going up from ANY of the parties involved in the equation are 100% unacceptable..

-Hedge fund companies should not be able to treat oil like a commodity (it's not a commodity in the U.S., period) and buy billions of dollars of oil before it even comes out of the ground, effectively driving demand and prices up.

-Since they have repeatedly proven that they are incapable of being decent human beings who actually at least somewhat care about the rest of us in the country, oil companies should have regulations slapped on how much they can raise prices over defined periods of time, etc. Oil should raise accordingly to the countries supply/demand curve for it, and nothing else, and that will never happen if we leave it up to the oil companies.

-Politicians/parties/etc should not be allowed to receive a single penny from oil companies or any corporation associated with them, because the only thing that comes of that is government officials and oil execs wallets getting thicker and the citizens of this country getting fucked.

I am just fed up in general...

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 4:13 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Unlike you I don't have disdain for the rich and sucessful. Why would I dislike someone for being sucessful? Why would I hate a company which is sucessful? You shouldn't be looking at class that way. Everyone should either be content where they are in life or be striving to be at the top. That's the American way. If you don't like it, live in a more laid back country.

I don't have a problem with successful companies being successful. What I have a problem with is this:

Exxon REFUSES to pay for damages due to oil spill

Oil Spill clean up crews share years of illness

Supreme Court Protects Exxon from paying for the damages

Yes, they are the epitome of an upstanding American corporation who deals in fair and responsible business practices, and all corporations should look to Exxon as an example of how to operate, how to deal with catastrophes, how to deal with the government, how to deal with environmental issues, and of course, how to turn a profit.

Is THIS the American way Mid? Is this what you consider to be the American dream?

Thank you for once again reminding me exactly what is at stake in this election, and why I'm donating and volunteering excessive amounts of time and money. There is still hope for millions of Americans who are not so obstinate as to openly contradict reality. You, on the other hand, well... you are just too old, too stupid, and too stubborn to understand even the simplest most basic concepts, and worse, you flaunt your ignorance. But I'm glad you are here, since you have been a great source of inspiration and motivation for me to continue to try and save as many people as I can from becoming anything like you.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:14 pm

Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 4:16 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 14, 2008, 4:18 pm

I don't think Mid really understands the concept of accountability.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:19 pm

This is why I have a problem with meat, man!!!! *toke*....yeah man. It's cruel man. Meat should be banned man!

miir · Post by **miir** » August 14, 2008, 4:19 pm

That looks delicious.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:20 pm

miir wrote:I don't think Mid really understands the concept of accountability.

No? Did they have to pay fines for these accidents? Did they have to pay for a share fo the clean up? Did they have to donate to causes because of these mistakes? Think before you type. No one with an ounce of intellect is buying your revisionist bullshit.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:21 pm

Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.

Read my response to Miir. LOL HAHA. Holy crap, what a child you are.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 4:29 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.
Read my response to Miir. LOL HAHA. Holy crap, what a child you are.

Speaking of children, I guess it's ok with you to have yours accidentally crippled or killed by a rich man, and have him use his resources to avoid punishment.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:31 pm

Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.
Read my response to Miir. LOL HAHA. Holy crap, what a child you are.
Speaking of children, I guess it's ok with you to have yours accidentally crippled or killed by a rich man, and have him use his resources to avoid punishment.

There you go again. You have nothing left so you attack me and/or my children personally. Beautiful.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 4:39 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.
Read my response to Miir. LOL HAHA. Holy crap, what a child you are.
Speaking of children, I guess it's ok with you to have yours accidentally crippled or killed by a rich man, and have him use his resources to avoid punishment.
There you go again. You have nothing left so you attack me and/or my children personally. Beautiful.

And this is the crux of why you are such a stupid stupid person. You cannot grasp simple concepts. I just personalized YOUR OWN views, and you consider them to be attacks. lololol. holy shit you are such a fool.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:43 pm

Xyun wrote: And this is the crux of why you are such a stupid stupid person. You cannot grasp simple concepts. I just personalized YOUR OWN views, and you consider them to be attacks. lololol. holy shit you are such a fool.

Wow.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 14, 2008, 4:45 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Ahhhhhh. Pictures of accidents. How touching. Ban oil then, dumbass. Let's see how far you get. You're pathetic.

you fucking moron. It's not about having an accident.... it's about accepting responsibility and being accountable, something completely foreign to your pubescent brain.
Read my response to Miir. LOL HAHA. Holy crap, what a child you are.
Speaking of children, I guess it's ok with you to have yours accidentally crippled or killed by a rich man, and have him use his resources to avoid punishment.
There you go again. You have nothing left so you attack me and/or my children personally. Beautiful.

Can you not understand what you read? That's an analogy, he's not attacking your children. He's trying to put it into terms so that you might understand. The problem, that you seem to not grasp, that Xyun has with Exxon is not that they make enormous profits. It's that they made $11 Billion last QUARTER and are still appealing paying fines for a disaster that THEY CAUSED over 10 years ago. A fine that amounts to less than 5% of the PROFIT that they made in 3 MONTHS.

Someday I hope we can take the training wheels off without you falling off and skinning your brain.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 4:56 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Can you not understand what you read? That's an analogy, he's not attacking your children. He's trying to put it into terms so that you might understand. The problem, that you seem to not grasp, that Xyun has with Exxon is not that they make enormous profits. It's that they made $11 Billion last QUARTER and are still appealing paying fines for a disaster that THEY CAUSED over 10 years ago. A fine that amounts to less than 5% of the PROFIT that they made in 3 MONTHS.

Someday I hope we can take the training wheels off without you falling off and skinning your brain.

No one else does this shit. Every time you ignorant douchebags do it to me, it has failed. It's a god awful analogy and Xyun knows what he was doing when brought my children into it, once again.

If my kid died as a result of some big accident such as an oil spill, I would not go after the oil company for anything. I do not wish to profit from the death of my child. I wouldn't care if they used their wealth and power to get out of paying fines they were given, because I'm a logical person who understands, that is what power people/companies do. You can rant and rave all you want, but power/money rule all. Welcome to reality.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 5:03 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/2 ... in_Georgia

You got to love the arrogance coming from the apostles of Obama.

DIAF you fucking retard, and take your kids with you for Darwin's sake. You're the most faith-based voter on the board. The right could roll out a candidate who's major platform was baby eating and you'd be in here telling everyone to look at the big picture.

Want to justify this one too Sylvus? You can't make fun of someone RL pic, but this continual bullshit is just fine, right? Assholes.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 14, 2008, 5:23 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: No one else does this shit. Every time you ignorant douchebags do it to me, it has failed. It's a god awful analogy and Xyun knows what he was doing when brought my children into it, once again.

If my kid died as a result of some big accident such as an oil spill, I would not go after the oil company for anything. I do not wish to profit from the death of my child. I wouldn't care if they used their wealth and power to get out of paying fines they were given, because I'm a logical person who understands, that is what power people/companies do. You can rant and rave all you want, but power/money rule all. Welcome to reality.

Sure, it's failed every time because you have trouble with people inventing scenarios to help illustrate a point. Case in point is you, yet again, thinking this amounts to a personal attack on you or your family.

That point, which you don't seem to understand, is about accountability. Or, if you do understand it, you don't seem to agree with it.

People use the children example with you because it's pretty much the easiest way for someone to try and relate an abstract concept, such as accountability, applied to something you obviously don't give a shit about, such as Alaskan wildlife and ecology. Most people care about their children more than anything else. Most people, when presented with the hypothetical situation of something bad happening to their children which is analogous to something else that actually happened (read: the Exxon Valdez spill), will be able to go "oh wow, yeah, I can see your point. If someone did something bad to my children, they should be held accountable for their actions".

ExxonMobil is the cause of the worst oil spill that has ever hit our continent. Their only punishment for their negligence was a fine. In the 19 years since the spill and the 15 or so since they've been in court, they've repeatedly appealed that decision at the same time that they are making the most profit per quarter of any company in the world, ever. They haven't paid a fine that amounts to one business week of profits. That's not the slightest bit reprehensible to you?

As far as your last post, I'm not justifying anything other than that which you are mistakenly reading. Zaelath wasn't using an example to help illustrate a point, I think he was telling you that he wishes you were dead.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » August 14, 2008, 5:30 pm

While it may be analogous, the operative word some of you seem to be missing is ACCIDENTALLY.

If they spilled the fucking oil intentionally, then god damn we better go after them and they better pay for everything.

How exactly would someone kill someones child ACCIDENTALLY in a way where they could use influence to avoid responsibility? If you could provide a valid scenario, maybe there could be an intelligent response.

Accidents are not good for anyone, but hell, 41,000 people died in car accidents in 2007. Where's the accountability there? Insurance covers all of that.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 5:42 pm

Sylvus wrote:
As far as your last post, I'm not justifying anything other than that which you are mistakenly reading. Zaelath wasn't using an example to help illustrate a point, I think he was telling you that he wishes you were dead.

You're a real fucking scumbag.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 14, 2008, 5:49 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
As far as your last post, I'm not justifying anything other than that which you are mistakenly reading. Zaelath wasn't using an example to help illustrate a point, I think he was telling you that he wishes you were dead.

You're a real fucking scumbag.

I'm not really sure why it's up to me to justify someone else's feelings about you. How does that make me a scumbag?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 14, 2008, 5:49 pm

Fash wrote:While it may be analogous, the operative word some of you seem to be missing is ACCIDENTALLY.
If they spilled the fucking oil intentionally, then god damn we better go after them and they better pay for everything.
How exactly would someone kill someones child ACCIDENTALLY in a way where they could use influence to avoid responsibility? If you could provide a valid scenario, maybe there could be an intelligent response.
Accidents are not good for anyone, but hell, 41,000 people died in car accidents in 2007. Where's the accountability there? Insurance covers all of that.

Bullshit. They are passing a cost of THEIR BUSINESS on to the state. The taxes they pay are NOT to cover shit like that, those taxes exist to pay for the ports that they unload their cargo, the Coast Guard and Navy that keep the waters they move through free of pirates, and the weather forecasting apparatus that helps them avoid even more accidents.

Your insurance example actually proves MY point. You are still responsible, it's just that your insurance company pays your liability FOR YOU because you made a contract with them to do so. It does not absolve you of responsibility.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 14, 2008, 5:52 pm

Fash wrote:While it may be analogous, the operative word some of you seem to be missing is ACCIDENTALLY.

If they spilled the fucking oil intentionally, then god damn we better go after them and they better pay for everything.

How exactly would someone kill someones child ACCIDENTALLY in a way where they could use influence to avoid responsibility? If you could provide a valid scenario, maybe there could be an intelligent response.

Accidents are not good for anyone, but hell, 41,000 people died in car accidents in 2007. Where's the accountability there? Insurance covers all of that.

The Supreme Court wrote:The justices described Exxon’s conduct as “worse than negligent but less than malicious.”

I'm pretty sure that penalties for negligence can range anywhere from civil lawsuits to actual jail time.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 5:53 pm

Yeah, it's kind of funny that wishing someone's children died is overlooked but someone calling one of the many disgusting fat slobs here what they are (disgusting fat lazy slobs). Fat people make me fucking sick, the only thing worse is listening to some bullshit sob story about why they are fat and why they can't lose weight. Gastric bypass surgery should be illegal, let em fucking die.

Fuck the rules, nick and zaelath have both gone far over the lines of what is acceptable (before anyone gets confused, this is fact, not opinion) to say to someone so many times that they should have been done posting here long ago.

I can start calling out names if it will get me banned?

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » August 14, 2008, 6:22 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/2 ... in_Georgia

You got to love the arrogance coming from the apostles of Obama.

DIAF you fucking retard, and take your kids with you for Darwin's sake. You're the most faith-based voter on the board. The right could roll out a candidate who's major platform was baby eating and you'd be in here telling everyone to look at the big picture.
Want to justify this one too Sylvus? You can't make fun of someone RL pic, but this continual bullshit is just fine, right? Assholes.

I'll justify it.

You're retarded. Your children have a fairly high chance of growing up to be similar to you. No one wants that, so for the sake of the greater good, you and your kids should probably die.

The above statement is not nessecarily my opinion. Maybe.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » August 14, 2008, 6:36 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah, it's kind of funny that wishing someone's children died is overlooked but someone calling one of the many disgusting fat slobs here what they are (disgusting fat lazy slobs). Fat people make me fucking sick, the only thing worse is listening to some bullshit sob story about why they are fat and why they can't lose weight. Gastric bypass surgery should be illegal, let em fucking die.

Fuck the rules, nick and zaelath have both gone far over the lines of what is acceptable (before anyone gets confused, this is fact, not opinion) to say to someone so many times that they should have been done posting here long ago.

I can start calling out names if it will get me banned?

This is my overall problem with you. You mistake your opinion for fact.

You obviously don't have a clear definition of the word "opinion" or "fact" so let's take a look, shall we...

o·pin·ion Audio Help /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

fact Audio Help /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

Your comment cannot, by the above rule, be a fact. It is your thoughts on a subject with no proof or tangible backing (such as an actual rule that says not to be mean to midnyte). Secondly, the statement itself is fallacious as you reference a "line" being crossed, which is an arbitrary term and references nothing in reality.

For it to be fact you'd need to find a realistic fault (not a "line" being crossed) and cite an actual rule or example of what is "acceptable."

Yes, i'm aware you're refering to them saying his children should die. But again, what deems this unacceptable? Or are you being reactive and emotive like usual? I think you are.

So, either you can ignore this post and continue confusing your opinions with facts, or you can learn something and stop being an emotional child with no concept of reality.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 6:59 pm

Never did I wish death or injury upon any child. I made a hypothetical analogy, clearly using the word accident, to drive home a point. Is it my fault that some of you are too stupid to understand the written word? Midnyte proved that he is a heartless, soulless, brainless scoundrel by admitting that even if a corporation was liable for harming, injuring, or causing the suffering of his own family, he would not hold them accountable because "that's not the way the world works". rofl.

What a sad pathetic man you are. If it happened to my family, my life would be devoted to retribution. But the same cannot be expected of cowards.

Fat people make me fucking sick... let em fucking die.

Unlike what I said, this is wishing death upon someone. Not understanding the concise difference between the two statements is the failings of an ignorant and lethargic brain.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 7:10 pm

Bagar- wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah, it's kind of funny that wishing someone's children died is overlooked but someone calling one of the many disgusting fat slobs here what they are (disgusting fat lazy slobs). Fat people make me fucking sick, the only thing worse is listening to some bullshit sob story about why they are fat and why they can't lose weight. Gastric bypass surgery should be illegal, let em fucking die.

Fuck the rules, nick and zaelath have both gone far over the lines of what is acceptable (before anyone gets confused, this is fact, not opinion) to say to someone so many times that they should have been done posting here long ago.

I can start calling out names if it will get me banned?

This is my overall problem with you. You mistake your opinion for fact.

You obviously don't have a clear definition of the word "opinion" or "fact" so let's take a look, shall we...

o·pin·ion Audio Help /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

fact Audio Help /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
Your comment cannot, by the above rule, be a fact. It is your thoughts on a subject with no proof or tangible backing (such as an actual rule that says not to be mean to midnyte). Secondly, the statement itself is fallacious as you reference a "line" being crossed, which is an arbitrary term and references nothing in reality.

For it to be fact you'd need to find a realistic fault (not a "line" being crossed) and cite an actual rule or example of what is "acceptable."

Yes, i'm aware you're refering to them saying his children should die. But again, what deems this unacceptable? Or are you being reactive and emotive like usual? I think you are.

So, either you can ignore this post and continue confusing your opinions with facts, or you can learn something and stop being an emotional child with no concept of reality.

I have a very good grasp of the difference between the two, it must be you that's confused.

Saying the kind of malicious shit that you, zaelath and nick say is not acceptable, period. If you truly think it is, you are completely out of touch with reality, and a moron.

See, I go on the concept here that I don't say a damn thing here I wouldn't say to your face, and not a single goddamn person here should be doing any different. This isn't a place for you to come and be an asshole, and if you still think that's what VV is, you aren't even worth talking to.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 7:14 pm

Xyun wrote:Never did I wish death or injury upon any child. I made a hypothetical analogy, clearly using the word accident, to drive home a point. Is it my fault that some of you are too stupid to understand the written word? Midnyte proved that he is a heartless, soulless, brainless scoundrel by admitting that even if a corporation was liable for harming, injuring, or causing the suffering of his own family, he would not hold them accountable because "that's not the way the world works". rofl.

What a sad pathetic man you are. If it happened to my family, my life would be devoted to retribution. But the same cannot be expected of cowards.

Fat people make me fucking sick... let em fucking die.

Unlike what I said, this is wishing death upon someone. Not understanding the concise difference between the two statements is the failings of an ignorant and lethargic brain.

Think maybe I said that to prove a point? Obviously you are super intelligent, so you should have picked that up.

However, if you can't see the difference between me saying that about a fat person (to become as fat as many people here are and many Americans are period, you need to be lazy and have no respect for yourself, and a terrible sense of hygiene - they either made a conscious decision to be fat, or have not chosen to do something about it) and saying you wish death on a innocent child that you have never spoken to, you're not worth my breath.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 7:17 pm

If the kind of awful people some of you are was ever in any question, this thread has removed all doubt.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 14, 2008, 7:19 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
Xyun wrote:Never did I wish death or injury upon any child. I made a hypothetical analogy, clearly using the word accident, to drive home a point. Is it my fault that some of you are too stupid to understand the written word? Midnyte proved that he is a heartless, soulless, brainless scoundrel by admitting that even if a corporation was liable for harming, injuring, or causing the suffering of his own family, he would not hold them accountable because "that's not the way the world works". rofl.

What a sad pathetic man you are. If it happened to my family, my life would be devoted to retribution. But the same cannot be expected of cowards.

Fat people make me fucking sick... let em fucking die.

Unlike what I said, this is wishing death upon someone. Not understanding the concise difference between the two statements is the failings of an ignorant and lethargic brain.
Think maybe I said that to prove a point? Obviously you are super intelligent, so you should have picked that up.

However, if you can't see the difference between me saying that about a fat person (to become as fat as many people here are and many Americans are period, you need to be lazy and have no respect for yourself, and a terrible sense of hygiene - they either made a conscious decision to be fat, or have not chosen to do something about it) and saying you wish death on a innocent child that you have never spoken to, you're not worth my breath.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » August 14, 2008, 7:26 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
Bagar- wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah, it's kind of funny that wishing someone's children died is overlooked but someone calling one of the many disgusting fat slobs here what they are (disgusting fat lazy slobs). Fat people make me fucking sick, the only thing worse is listening to some bullshit sob story about why they are fat and why they can't lose weight. Gastric bypass surgery should be illegal, let em fucking die.

Fuck the rules, nick and zaelath have both gone far over the lines of what is acceptable (before anyone gets confused, this is fact, not opinion) to say to someone so many times that they should have been done posting here long ago.

I can start calling out names if it will get me banned?

This is my overall problem with you. You mistake your opinion for fact.

You obviously don't have a clear definition of the word "opinion" or "fact" so let's take a look, shall we...

o·pin·ion Audio Help /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

fact Audio Help /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
Your comment cannot, by the above rule, be a fact. It is your thoughts on a subject with no proof or tangible backing (such as an actual rule that says not to be mean to midnyte). Secondly, the statement itself is fallacious as you reference a "line" being crossed, which is an arbitrary term and references nothing in reality.

For it to be fact you'd need to find a realistic fault (not a "line" being crossed) and cite an actual rule or example of what is "acceptable."

Yes, i'm aware you're refering to them saying his children should die. But again, what deems this unacceptable? Or are you being reactive and emotive like usual? I think you are.

So, either you can ignore this post and continue confusing your opinions with facts, or you can learn something and stop being an emotional child with no concept of reality.
I have a very good grasp of the difference between the two, it must be you that's confused.

Saying the kind of malicious shit that you, zaelath and nick say is not acceptable, period. If you truly think it is, you are completely out of touch with reality, and a moron.

See, I go on the concept here that I don't say a damn thing here I wouldn't say to your face, and not a single goddamn person here should be doing any different. This isn't a place for you to come and be an asshole, and if you still think that's what VV is, you aren't even worth talking to.

First of all, I never said I wished death upon Mid or his children. I put a disclaimer at the bottom of my post saying that I was only answering his question and that it wasn't my opinion at all. Maybe.

Saying the kind of malicious shit that you, zaelath and nick say is not acceptable, period. If you truly think it is, you are completely out of touch with reality, and a moron.

You're just deflecting the issue. You did say it was a fact, so either you misspoke and were wrong, or you're backpeddling and trying to pretend you didn't confuse fact with opinion. Which is it?

You don't get to determine what is acceptable, Mr. Funkmasterr. The decision isn't yours. You think so highly of yourself, but the fact is, that it's simply your OPINION; your OPINIONS don't dictate what is or isn't acceptable.

Oh, and for the record, I never said it was acceptable or unacceptable. That isn't the argument i'm presenting. The argument i'm presenting is that you seem to think your opinions are facts or rules. They aren't. Please acknowledge that.

I'm sorry people over the internet infuriate you so, but try to use logic and reason in your next post and not blind emotion. Please try to address the issue and not run on wild claims of your own manhood and what a toughguy you are, and claims that i'm the one that's confused when i'm the only person here to present any actual argument or data. You're still just spewing opinion and trying to disguise it as fact.

I await your reply with baited breath.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 7:37 pm

Bagar- wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Bagar- wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah, it's kind of funny that wishing someone's children died is overlooked but someone calling one of the many disgusting fat slobs here what they are (disgusting fat lazy slobs). Fat people make me fucking sick, the only thing worse is listening to some bullshit sob story about why they are fat and why they can't lose weight. Gastric bypass surgery should be illegal, let em fucking die.

Fuck the rules, nick and zaelath have both gone far over the lines of what is acceptable (before anyone gets confused, this is fact, not opinion) to say to someone so many times that they should have been done posting here long ago.

I can start calling out names if it will get me banned?

This is my overall problem with you. You mistake your opinion for fact.

You obviously don't have a clear definition of the word "opinion" or "fact" so let's take a look, shall we...

o·pin·ion Audio Help /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

fact Audio Help /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
Your comment cannot, by the above rule, be a fact. It is your thoughts on a subject with no proof or tangible backing (such as an actual rule that says not to be mean to midnyte). Secondly, the statement itself is fallacious as you reference a "line" being crossed, which is an arbitrary term and references nothing in reality.

For it to be fact you'd need to find a realistic fault (not a "line" being crossed) and cite an actual rule or example of what is "acceptable."

Yes, i'm aware you're refering to them saying his children should die. But again, what deems this unacceptable? Or are you being reactive and emotive like usual? I think you are.

So, either you can ignore this post and continue confusing your opinions with facts, or you can learn something and stop being an emotional child with no concept of reality.
I have a very good grasp of the difference between the two, it must be you that's confused.

Saying the kind of malicious shit that you, zaelath and nick say is not acceptable, period. If you truly think it is, you are completely out of touch with reality, and a moron.

See, I go on the concept here that I don't say a damn thing here I wouldn't say to your face, and not a single goddamn person here should be doing any different. This isn't a place for you to come and be an asshole, and if you still think that's what VV is, you aren't even worth talking to.
First of all, I never said I wished death upon Mid or his children. I put a disclaimer at the bottom of my post saying that I was only answering his question and that it wasn't my opinion at all. Maybe.

Saying the kind of malicious shit that you, zaelath and nick say is not acceptable, period. If you truly think it is, you are completely out of touch with reality, and a moron.
You're just deflecting the issue. You did say it was a fact, so either you misspoke and were wrong, or you're backpeddling and trying to pretend you didn't confuse fact with opinion. Which is it?

You don't get to determine what is acceptable, Mr. Funkmasterr. The decision isn't yours. You think so highly of yourself, but the fact is, that it's simply your OPINION; your OPINIONS don't dictate what is or isn't acceptable.

Oh, and for the record, I never said it was acceptable or unacceptable. That isn't the argument i'm presenting. The argument i'm presenting is that you seem to think your opinions are facts or rules. They aren't. Please acknowledge that.

I'm sorry people over the internet infuriate you so, but try to use logic and reason in your next post and not blind emotion. Please try to address the issue and not run on wild claims of your own manhood and what a toughguy you are, and claims that i'm the one that's confused when i'm the only person here to present any actual argument or data. You're still just spewing opinion and trying to disguise it as fact.

I await your reply with baited breath.

In this case, my opinion is fact to anyone with shred of decency and respect. So I guess if you don't share my opinion, then you aren't a decent person and don't have even a basic level of respect for others, and I have zero interest in even seeing your name let alone having any form of discussion with you, civil or otherwise.

I'm sorry you don't seem to understand what I've said a million times, or if you do understand you just keep spouting off. I have a short fuse, I don't have time for people that get enjoyment out of getting a rise out of someone, I don't come to VV to participate in or be on the receiving end of any flaming/shit talk/whatever, and by no means am I going to spend any amount of time or brain power responding to any comment by anyone here unless they are acting, speaking, and conveying themselves in a manner I deem acceptable, because it isn't worth my time otherwise. If you don't like that, don't say anything to me that requires any kind of a response, or don't act like a prick. Pretty simple.

EDIT: I'll at least give you credit for making a post directed at me for once in which you actually try and have a conversation and don't just make some recycled insult.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 14, 2008, 7:42 pm

I am amused that some of you see tragedy and criminal negligence as "accident". Of course paying a fine erases all irreparable harm to the planet though.... right??

A most excellent trolling job, regardless...

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 14, 2008, 7:58 pm

Whatever happens as a result of an accident is ok, because they're accidents. If a bag boy accidentally puts a bottle of detergent on top of your bread, it's ok, because it was an accident. If a doctor cuts off the wrong leg during surgery, it's ok, because it was an accident. If a cop pulls out his gun and accidentally discharges a round killing a child, it's ok, because it was an accident. Accidents happen.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 8:12 pm

Spang wrote:If a bag boy accidentally puts a bottle of detergent on top of your bread, it's ok, because it was an accident .

The bag boy loses his job. You throw out the bread. The store gives you a new loaf of bread.

Spang wrote:If a doctor cuts off the wrong leg during surgery, it's ok, because it was an accident..

The doctor loses his job. The hospital gives you some money to compensate you for the acident.

Spang wrote:If a cop pulls out his gun and accidentally discharges a round killing a child, it's ok, because it was an accident.

The cop loses his job. Has to live with that for the rest of his life.

Spang wrote:Accidents happen.

Yes. They do.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 14, 2008, 8:35 pm

And if a tanker has a spill, thousands of animals die, the fishing industry is damaged, water, land and air is polluted, toxins are introduced into the environment..... and the responsible party gets a slap on the wrist and continues to multiply their profits--all at the expense of us.

"Big Oil" has almost no check. Of course, when they have a good chunk of D.C. in their pocket... I think it is time to reanimate Ted Roosevelt.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 14, 2008, 8:49 pm

Awww, did I offend Midnyte and the Assmaster?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 14, 2008, 8:54 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Spang wrote:If a bag boy accidentally puts a bottle of detergent on top of your bread, it's ok, because it was an accident .
The bag boy loses his job. You throw out the bread. The store gives you a new loaf of bread.

Spang wrote:If a doctor cuts off the wrong leg during surgery, it's ok, because it was an accident..
The doctor loses his job. The hospital gives you some money to compensate you for the acident.

Spang wrote:If a cop pulls out his gun and accidentally discharges a round killing a child, it's ok, because it was an accident.
The cop loses his job. Has to live with that for the rest of his life.

Spang wrote:Accidents happen.
Yes. They do.

Accidentally die in a car fire, please.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 14, 2008, 8:56 pm

Zaelath wrote:Awww, did I offend Midnyte and the Assmaster?

You make absolutely zero contribution to these forums other than spewing hate speech at a small handful of people, and making other miscellaneous smart ass comments. You must be proud?

I'm curious, on what terms did you leave the United States? It would really make my day to know your worthless fucking ass was forced out.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 9:19 pm

Canelek wrote:And if a tanker has a spill, thousands of animals die, the fishing industry is damaged, water, land and air is polluted, toxins are introduced into the environment..... and the responsible party gets a slap on the wrist and continues to multiply their profits--all at the expense of us.

"Big Oil" has almost no check. Of course, when they have a good chunk of D.C. in their pocket... I think it is time to reanimate Ted Roosevelt.

Details of the Settlement
Criminal Settlement
Plea Agreement
Exxon was fined $150 million, the largest fine ever imposed for an environmental crime. The court forgave $125 million of that fine in recognition of Exxon's cooperation in cleaning up the spill and paying certain private claims. Of the remaining $25 million, $12 million went to the North American Wetlands Conservation Fund and $13 million went to the national Victims of Crime Fund.

Criminal Restitution
As restitution for the injuries caused to the fish, wildlife, and lands of the spill region, Exxon agreed to pay $100 million. This money was divided evenly between the federal and state governments.

Civil Settlement
Exxon agreed to pay $900 million in ten annual installments. The final payment was received in Sept. 2001. The settlement contains a reopener window between Sept. 1, 2002 and Sept. 1, 2006, during which the state and federal governments may make a claim for up to an additional $100 million. The funds must be used to restore resources that suffered a substantial loss or decline as a result of the oil spill, the injuries to which could not have been known or anticipated by the six trustees from any information in their possession or reasonably available to any of them at the time of the settlement (Sept. 25, 1991). Note: On June 1, 2006, the U.S. Department of Justice and the State of Alaska Department of Law announced that they have taken the first step in asserting a claim under the Reopener provision by providing ExxonMobil Corporation with a detailed project plan for the cleanup of lingering oil at an estimated cost of $92 million.

http://www.evostc.state.ak.us/History/index.cfm

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 14, 2008, 9:24 pm

I want to accidentally cover your family in oil which will eventually kill them.

I'll pay you 1 billion dollars, though.

It'll be ok.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 14, 2008, 9:27 pm

Spang wrote:I want to accidentally cover your family in oil which will eventually kill them.

I'll pay you 1 billion dollars, though.

It'll be ok.

Details of the Settlement
Criminal Settlement
Plea Agreement
Exxon was fined $150 million, the largest fine ever imposed for an environmental crime. The court forgave $125 million of that fine in recognition of Exxon's cooperation in cleaning up the spill and paying certain private claims. Of the remaining $25 million, $12 million went to the North American Wetlands Conservation Fund and $13 million went to the national Victims of Crime Fund.

Criminal Restitution
As restitution for the injuries caused to the fish, wildlife, and lands of the spill region, Exxon agreed to pay $100 million. This money was divided evenly between the federal and state governments.

Civil Settlement
Exxon agreed to pay $900 million in ten annual installments. The final payment was received in Sept. 2001. The settlement contains a reopener window between Sept. 1, 2002 and Sept. 1, 2006, during which the state and federal governments may make a claim for up to an additional $100 million. The funds must be used to restore resources that suffered a substantial loss or decline as a result of the oil spill, the injuries to which could not have been known or anticipated by the six trustees from any information in their possession or reasonably available to any of them at the time of the settlement (Sept. 25, 1991). Note: On June 1, 2006, the U.S. Department of Justice and the State of Alaska Department of Law announced that they have taken the first step in asserting a claim under the Reopener provision by providing ExxonMobil Corporation with a detailed project plan for the cleanup of lingering oil at an estimated cost of $92 million.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 14, 2008, 9:29 pm

Funkmasterr wrote: You make absolutely zero contribution to these forums other than spewing hate speech at a small handful of people, and making other miscellaneous smart ass comments. You must be proud?

I'm curious, on what terms did you leave the United States? It would really make my day to know your worthless fucking ass was forced out.

Where as your contribution is being the staunchest ally of the biggest hypocritical troll to ever shit over everything they supposedly hold dear to elicit emotional response? I tried for a long time to engage you fuckwits in debate, but that long ago proved to be pointless, either through your inability to understand simple concepts even when illustrated by even simpler analogies, or a grim determination to pretend to be stupid in an effort to make "the other side" angry for your own perverted amusement. So, now I'll just stick to expressing my growing distain for feckless retards like you and your butt buddy.

Sorry to dissapoint you again, but I left MN of my own free will. Don't worry, I won't be back