Deathknights

[Sargeras]

I figured this warranted it's own thread. Here we can discuss the new class. I'll start by posting a video of the final quest that DK's do that officially break their bond with the Lich King. If you're into the lore like I am, you'll see some familiar faces. Oh, and Ret paladins kick ass!

http://www.vimeo.com/1366644?pg=embed&sec=1366644

Go Fullscreen.
Make sure HD is on.
Grab some popcorn, and enjoy.

Feel free to inquire and I'll do my best to answer them.

[cadalano]

i caved and decided to check out the beta



i'm at the point where you fly around on that dragon thing and blast scarlet people for like 8 hours. man they need to make that shit a lot faster.


definitely the most robust & creative starting experience in the game. and i like how they reuse and repopulate the zones like that to show a progression of the story.

the class seems like it'll definitely be overpowered... tractor beam in PVP is probably the most abusable skill that there has ever been. trees are definetly exciting to read and the class sounds like it'll play very uniquely.. ie blood being oriented around passive life drains and such forth.

[Aardor]

I'll give my first born son for a Beta key.

[Fairweather Pure]

Thanks for the video.

Holy mudflation! 34k HPs? 10k cits?!?

I can't wait to see what my feral druid will be doing!

[Dregor Thule]

You get buffed during that event so that your HPs and dmg are through the roof, so don't get too excited

And Sarge.. Adela... I HATE YOU SO MUCH!

[Fairweather Pure]

You get buffed during that event so that your HPs and dmg are through the roof, so don't get too excited

And Sarge.. Adela... I HATE YOU SO MUCH!

Haha, thanks for the explaination. I thought that was pretty crazy!

[Sargeras]

Judgement of Justice is bugged in that everytime I refresh it (every attack I do does), it hits for Seal of Command damage. I'm 1-2shotting mobs atm.

Level! Level! Level! Gogogogogogogogo!

What server are you on Adela? And I agree about Death Grip. PVPers will cry about that by the likes of which we've never seen of QQing before. The DK has changed a lot since Alpha. I have fraps video of me AEing mobs in Nagrand for 5k crits at level 64, using only 1 frost rune.

[cadalano]

im on the PVE one either playing Boxer or Stalfo. havent been online a great deal, though

[Sargeras]

im on the PVE one either playing Boxer or Stalfo. havent been online a great deal, though

Horde?

[cadalano]

ya

[Bagar-]

Get me a beta key ><.

I checked out all the DK quest screenshots. It's so fucking awesome.

My only problem is how badly they've fucked over the Ashbringer storyline. I mean, Retconning the Corrupted Ashbringer SM event is fine I guess (and nessecary at this point since there's obviously not a second Mograine in outlands), but now it seems like they're just contracting with wal-mart to mass produce Ashbringers. Darion Mograine has the corrupted one, okay, i can get that. He throws it to Tirion, it gets cleansed, I get that too. So why is there a questline in Utgarde Catacombs to retrieve an artifact that turns out to be the fuckmothering Ashbringer? Is the one from Utgarde like, a new ashbringer, and Tirion is going to spec for Titan Grip and weild both of them or some shit?

[Sargeras]

Looks like they're most likely be removing custom rune slotting. Here's a post from the DK dev:

We like the way the death knight plays with 2 of each rune -- BBFFUU. Letting players avoid certain runes plays against one of the greatest strengths of the class -- that you have to vary your rotations and use different abilities. Although it was our original design, I think it is extremely unlikely you will be able to swap out runes. I know some people will be disappointed with this decision, but we have to do what we think makes the game the most fun.

I think you all can imagine situations in which a BBBBBU or BFUUUU configuration would be frighteningly overpowered or hideously underpowered. Theoretically that balances out in the end, but being at 200% effectiveness in some fights and 0% effectiveness in other fights just risks not being a lot of fun in a game where you control a single character.

I do want to stress that the spells and talents were designed assuming a 2/2/2 configuration. It was never our intent that you keep say Unbreakable Armor up 100% of the time by playing with 6 frost runes. No single talent choice should be the difference between a good or bad death knight tank. (And to be honest, it really isn't for druids.) A death knight needs to be able to tank end-game content with their core set of abilities combined with reasonable player skill and gear. Any bonuses from talents should just be gravy.

You are welcome to argue that their current set of tools isn't yet up to that task. Having those discussions is a great use of a beta. But in the end, we'll make sure they are up to the task. And that goes for whether the task is tanking, Arenas, soloing, end-game dps or justifying a spot in a raid.

Short version: You may not be able to customize your runeweapon -- aside from runeforging enchants, which isn't a bad perk -- but you should be able to customize your talents to a degree that other classes might find startling.

And there goes one of the reason I wanted to roll a DK.

[Sargeras]

Is the one from Utgarde like, a new ashbringer, and Tirion is going to spec for Titan Grip and weild both of them or some shit?

Paladins with Titan's Grip would make me happy in the pants. Hell, in the DK encounter, the named paladins have Heroic Leap... another warrior ability ><.

[Dregor Thule]

I don't have things completely formed in my head as far as timeline, but you need to remember that the DK starting quests take place "in the past", so there's a good assumption that Tirion sneezed and lost the Ashbringer somewhere!

[Sargeras]

DK starting quests take place "in the past"

They do?

All the quests I did were done in the present.

There is an NPC cutscene of the past where the Morgaine father and son talk to each other, but I don't recall any other quest happening in the past.

[Dregor Thule]

Well, i figured what with the Lich King being there and the quest givers/etc being naxxramas bosses, and what with the area progressively being corrupted as you went along that there was a time difference going on there. I haven't experienced it first hand, so I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

[Dregor Thule]

Hmm, scratch that. After reviewing the quests again it seems to be present-day. That's... disappointing. I thought it seemed much cooler when I perceived it as being in the past and progressing to the present :/ So yeah, I got nothing for all the retconning they're doing with Tirion and the Ashbringer, and of course all the Naxx bosses. I don't know why I keep getting disappointed by the "storyline" in WoW. They obviously couldn't give 2 shits about it and just come up with something they deem as cool and fuck whatever came before. Not surprising when every second NPC is some Mary Sue character or a pop culture reference that's about as subtly referenced as slapping someone in the face with a week-dead trout.

Why do I have to enjoy this game so?

[Bagar-]

They have so much cool shit to work with, I don't see how they continuously fuck it up.

As for Gothik and whatever other Naxx bosses are there... I can see that being believable. Gothik states in his questline that he's just making a temporary stop to harvest some souls and shit, so it can be presumed that he won't be staying long and then he'll return to Naxx. Not that i'd complain if they removed the Gothik fight. It was a mess.

[Sargeras]

I have 2 issues with DK's so far:

1. They're removing the rune customization:

We like the way the death knight plays with 2 of each rune -- BBFFUU. Letting players avoid certain runes plays against one of the greatest strengths of the class -- that you have to vary your rotations and use different abilities. Although it was our original design, I think it is extremely unlikely you will be able to swap out runes. I know some people will be disappointed with this decision, but we have to do what we think makes the game the most fun.

I think you all can imagine situations in which a BBBBBU or BFUUUU configuration would be frighteningly overpowered or hideously underpowered. Theoretically that balances out in the end, but being at 200% effectiveness in some fights and 0% effectiveness in other fights just risks not being a lot of fun in a game where you control a single character.

I do want to stress that the spells and talents were designed assuming a 2/2/2 configuration. It was never our intent that you keep say Unbreakable Armor up 100% of the time by playing with 6 frost runes. No single talent choice should be the difference between a good or bad death knight tank. (And to be honest, it really isn't for druids.) A death knight needs to be able to tank end-game content with their core set of abilities combined with reasonable player skill and gear. Any bonuses from talents should just be gravy.

You are welcome to argue that their current set of tools isn't yet up to that task. Having those discussions is a great use of a beta. But in the end, we'll make sure they are up to the task. And that goes for whether the task is tanking, Arenas, soloing, end-game dps or justifying a spot in a raid.

Short version: You may not be able to customize your runeweapon -- aside from runeforging enchants, which isn't a bad perk -- but you should be able to customize your talents to a degree that other classes might find startling. DK's is that they're too susceptible to CC. A frost mage is going to be their best ally and their worst nightmare in PVP.

2. They are very susceptible to CC. A frost mage will be their greatest ally and their worst nightmare in PVP.

[Aardor]

Off-topic (mostly):

Mage's actually having a class where abilities from the class benefit the mage, and the mage's abilities benefiting the other class is the only reason i'm considering playing my mage in the expansion. I will probably switch to my rogue (just hit 70, and getting honor/arena gear now), because I do not find arena fun on the mage currently. Not trying to say they are underpowered, but there have been no big changes to mages which will change them from the general first target in all common comps containing a mage, and I do not find this fun at all. In Season 3, I did RMP with 2 friends, and we went 37-2 to get 1850, and then never played again because I had 0 interest after getting my staff (which i got for pve reasons at the time).

Back on topic: Frost mages with DKs looks cool as hell, I can't wait to see some arena/pvp videos of the combo.

[Dregor Thule]

I'm ok with them removing rune customization. I was a little worried about pigeonholing myself into 1/3 of my abilities as a DK, this way I'll be a lot more flexible and they can balance the class around it instead of having to balance around min/maxing runes, effectively neutering anyone that wanted to try something balanced. There's still going to be so much going on I think as far as DK mechanics that it's not a big deal

And I'm used to being CC'd to death repeatedly, hello enhancement shaman!