New Desktop Build, Revisited

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 16, 2008, 1:32 pm

So it has been a bit of time since I abandoned getting a new system. I was able to budget around 2.5K to build up something nice. Would be cool to go cheaper, of course! So, what I want to do here is find out if my specs from last year are still valid (new technology, discovered bugs, better ideas, etc).

Here is what I wanted:

Motherboard

EVGA 132-CK-NF79-A1 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Processor

ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

GPU

EVGA GeForce 9800 GTX(G92) 512-P3-N871-AR Video Card

Case

COOLER MASTER Stacker 830 Evolution RC-830-KKN3-GP Black Computer Case With Side Panel Window

PSU

Thermaltake W0131RU 850W Power Supply

Memory

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

OS

Microso ft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English 1pk DSP OEI DVD

Other:

LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GGC-H20L

Western Digital Raptor 150GB 3.5" SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive X 2

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series

Link Depot 7 FT HDMI TO DVI Cable

Logi 5500 5.1 Speakers

---

Just about to order!

thanks!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 18, 2008, 5:44 pm

Found a good price (145) on 2x2GB GSkill @ 1066. Pretty swinging deal, IMO. I have had GSkill recommended multiple times.

Still looks like the nVidia 9800 GX2 will be the winner.

My biggest thing right now is deciding between c2D (E6850) and Quad (Q6600). A bit lost now on mobo as well, since it looks like the one I wanted is no longer around.... slowly but surely!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 18, 2008, 6:33 pm

I would suggest the 45nm quad cores if you are gonna do the quad core thing...same with the dual cores. Quad would be Q9450, or Q9300 for cheaper variant...only slightly more than a Q6600. Personally, I would jsut go with an E8400 dual core 45nm at 3ghz...perfect...plus they are cheaper than the ones you linked above, and are the same speed/faster.

Also, would suggest the intel x38 chipset. Just watch which one so you get DDR2 usage. The gigabyte EX38-DS4 version is very good and on the less expensive side. Of course, that would NOT allow you to do SLI. If you are deadset on SLI, you have to go with 750i/780i chipset...which is a real stinker with OC'ing and whatnot...and HEAT. Since you bought DDR2 memory, 790i chipset is OUT for you.

Just remember, the X38 is equiped for future 1600FSB processors from Intel, while the 750/780i chipsets do NOT officially support it (You would most likely just have to overclock the board).

750i northbridge FTW 750i is getting nice reviews.

780i northbridge Not considered "great" by the OC community..but whatever, that may not be your thing.

Gigabyte EX38-DS4 Nice reviews, but Crossfire instead of SLI.

I wouldn't bother with an expensive graphics card right now. The GX2 is already gonna be on its EOL in a month...very short cycle, and replaced in June I think...but its all rumors now on when replacements come out, really. Considering the prices on 9800GTX cards have just dropped below 300 (evga included...step up program), they are very inexpensive for the money...and that card OC's like a monster. The 8800GTS is also getting damn close to 200 bucks before rebates which would be an outstanding deal.

Personally, if you are going to use it for gaming, I would build an AMD system to save on the cash

Nvidia is so right with their statements of GPU make gaming, not CPU...Just buy the best amd motherboard you can afford, and just an ok CPU, and wait for some good phenoms to come out. The 3 core phenoms come out in a week or two.

My only other opinion to share, would be, if you can wait another year, do it. Intel will be changing sockets with its next chip, which will come out late this year/early next year. new everything...with internal memory controller like AMD does. edit: Woops, you bought the ram, so build the system

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 18, 2008, 6:44 pm

Meh, I am not so sure I want to do AMD this time around. I also do not want to wait a year for new Intel chipset.

Ah, so I should not buy the DDR2 and get DDR3 instead? I do want SLI, but want to wait to add 2nd card. Would love HDMI out on card as well. The 9800 GX2 seemed attractive since it is essentially 2 cards in one. right?

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 18, 2008, 6:46 pm

yeah, you want the 750i chipset, in my opinion. Will use the ram you bought, and will run two card SLI.

Don't buy into DDR3, its overpriced and doesn't increase performance enough.

Just guy one 9800GTX or GTS now, and when the new cards come out, buy a dirt cheap one and SLI it

Basicly, I break down the 9800GX2 as follows: $535 for ONE GX2, $500 for (2) 8800GTS...it doesn't add up well. Plus, Nvidia will surely fuckup the drivers for quad SLI when using (2) 9800GX2's...its just a matter of time. This hardocp article has the lowdown of GX2 vs. some SLI's of less expensive cards.

All video cards come with a DVI to HDMI adapter now too, btw, so no worries there.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 18, 2008, 6:57 pm

So looks like the Q9450 is a good CPU, and in my price range.

I'll stick with the RAM in shopping cart, unless I can do better than GSkill--have not bought yet.

So you are saying buy a 9800 GTX or 2 x 8800 GTS?

Damn nice price on that EVGA 750i board. Only a few reviews though--better than the ASUS Striker?

thanks!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 19, 2008, 8:14 am

I think its just that the 750i boards are just lacking the Triple SLI, but no big deal in my mind for that. Its not that I have anything against the Asus Striker II, but its like $100 more than everyone else's 780i board...plus the community seems to prefer EVGA when it comes to nvidia chipset products...which could just be because they are a really upstanding company. And it may not be the greatest idea, but I would buy the evga 9800GTX from newegg for $280 (email promo code), just one, and either step up in a few months the new hotness that comes out, or buy a second 9800gtx when they go end of life in a couple months, and their prices drop down to $225 or so.

Just make sure you case can handle a card this "deep"

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 22, 2008, 1:18 pm

Thanks man!

I kinda like the build Trias has as well:

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 25&t=22604

What do ya think?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 22, 2008, 7:46 pm

I can't find a case that I like =/.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 22, 2008, 8:39 pm

Anyone ever shop here?

http://www.xoxide.com

Some really neat looking shit there!

Cases galore, and modular power supplies wuwuwuwuwu!!1

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » April 22, 2008, 8:42 pm

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81820#

http://thermaltakeusa.com/product/Chass ... 000sna.asp

http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/pr ... s_index=62

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/ ... tj07&area=

now stfu, lizard!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 22, 2008, 8:53 pm

Oooo, those are pretty damn cool! I like the liquid-cooled one. Thanks you dirty whore!

valryte · Post by **valryte** » April 22, 2008, 9:09 pm

I have an Antec P182 and love it. It has a really cool feature where they left enough room outside of the motherboard so you can run the cables through the back and out of the way of all the components.

The thermaltake looks really nice if you want to watercool.

The lian-li case looks like a direct rip from the antec case.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 23, 2008, 11:16 am

I bought the best buy version of that Lian Li case (it was made by Lian Li) that was on clearance at the stores for $47.99...ridiculously cheap, so I bought it. But the nice cases are always le Huge. Its THIS case...but just call your local best buy with the SKU number and ask them the price. In the stores around the country its on clearance for the $47.99 mentioned above. Its big, its roomy, and I would compare it to the P182.

If you have the money to spend, the system Trias put together is very nice, and will hold you over for years to come I'm sure.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 23, 2008, 1:57 pm

Thanks! I will check that case out, if it is available...

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 23, 2008, 2:08 pm

How about the power supply? With a similar build to Trias, should I be aiming for 1KW? I am really down with the modular PSUs, and was looking at the selection here: http://www.xoxide.com

I would rather not spend $300+, so if I can do well getting around a 850w, that would be cool.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 23, 2008, 2:11 pm

Canelek wrote:How about the power supply? With a similar build to Trias, should I be aiming for 1KW? I am really down with the modular PSUs, and was looking at the selection here: http://www.xoxide.com

I would rather not spend $300+, so if I can do well getting around a 850w, that would be cool.

You can find a good PSU for around 100.00. No need to spend 300.00 on that. Research them though. (quality over extra wattage)

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 24, 2008, 9:20 am

I won't buy a power supply unless johnny guru has reviewed it. He's not the end all be all of that shit, but he does a very nice test pattern on power supplies. http://www.jonnyguru.com

Corsair has JUST released a 1kw MODULAR power supply. Its MSRP is $250. I have the 620w version and couldn't be happier.

Hardocp's Review

If you are not going to do more than 2 card SLI, I would go with the PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750w. PCP&C makes the best power supplies, hands down, and the 750w silencer can be had on the down low nowadays.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 24, 2008, 9:42 am

Modular power supplies look nice and are a cool idea.. But I found I pretty much used most of the plugs anyway. And the added plug length sure made it hard to install in a P182. If I did it over again I wouldn't bother with limiting myself to modular power supplys as I don't really find a benefit to it.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 24, 2008, 2:05 pm

Well, I want to make sure I have enough power to run 2 9800 GTX cards, 2 SATA drives, Blu Ray--and the other stuff, assuming I go with a similar build to Trias.

Kingwin any good? I really like their modular design.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 25, 2008, 9:25 am

Those names like kingwin and such, all depend on who they contracted that particular power supply too...and its hard to know if you can't find a review that tears the cover off and checks out the "guts".

I'll say it is "you get what you pay for" most the time with power supplies. Just spend the money on a brand name, well built, well TESTED unit, and that way you won't have to worry about when its going to fry your motherboard. I'd buy one of the $150 to $200 750w to 850w units that are around. Just make sure a trusted power supply review site has put it through its paces.

In my opinion, power supply is the most important component to a computer. It can cause the quickest failures from build date out of any other component. Things like dirty power at your electrical outlet and power quality from your power company all affect the life of a power supply...you need one that can handle all the under and over voltages that are likely plaguing your house...and what I mean by this is, the components are made for higher heat, larger voltage ranges, etc...all these things cause inexpensive components to burn up sooner, etc, which then can either be 1) best case scenario, and your power supply just stops working, or 2) worst case scenario, it takes some other components with it...most commonly, the motherboard.

Running through a UPS does help, but you have to spend the money on a quality UPS as well to get ones with voltage regulation in them...but that's a different discussion.

As for running (2) 9800GTX's...well, here are some normal TOTAL SYSTEM LOAD numbers from the outlet (receptacle):

9800GTX SLI - 226w Idle, 425w Loaded

8800GTX SLI - 260w Idle, 512w Loaded
Source

Those are total system loads, with a evga 790i mobo and DDR3 ram, and an quad core CPU. So, as you can see, that PC Power and Cooling 750w power supply would be just fine for your ideal build. All of these will do 8800GTX SLI no problem:

First Choice $160
Second Choice $145 AR
Third Choice $200
With BFG, just make sure its the new ES Series models (black box) vs. the older models that were crap...and are cheaper as a result too.

HEREis a review of the Kingwin modular...not a passing review in my opinion. Poor efficiency in comparison to others, and heat.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 25, 2008, 12:50 pm

Thanks, man. I will check these out!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » April 25, 2008, 6:07 pm

Damn it. All this talk is getting me itching to build again. I already have plans for first quarter of next year and I am saving up to have about a 3k budget by then. Something tells me I will build sooner than that but I'm trying to hold back. Biggest thing right now is that I just don't have that money saved up yet, just a bit more than half.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 26, 2008, 9:14 am

There's no way I'd build new right now, no chance. You have a new intel socket coming out next year, AMD may pull their heads out of the sand with AM3...too many possibilities to build now (assuming you have a good machine now)...

There's a ton of buzz right now for the new ati and nvidia video cards. R700 and GT200 respectively. Both will make their debuts this summer it looks like.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 26, 2008, 12:40 pm

Kluden wrote:There's no way I'd build new right now, no chance. You have a new intel socket coming out next year, AMD may pull their heads out of the sand with AM3...too many possibilities to build now (assuming you have a good machine now)...

There's a ton of buzz right now for the new ati and nvidia video cards. R700 and GT200 respectively. Both will make their debuts this summer it looks like.

I agree with this. Of course, it depends on what you have now for a PC. I don't see a substantial upgrade until the next generation (beyond nVidia 9800) and faster CPUs. If you already have a dual core system and 7800+ GPU, I'd wait. You'll be able to grab one of the new super fast VelociRaptors, major GPU performance jump with GT200, new socket, maybe some cheaper DDR3 giving you increased HD, CPU, GPU and memory performance.

I'd wait especially if you're looking for high performance. If not, you can buy a solid system for a low price right now. ~200.00 each for CPU and GPU will get you great value performance. If you're thinking more along the lines of 400+ for those items, I'd wait for the next wave since the 8800/9800's are nearing end of life and a new socket is planned in the near future.

I'd also wait because a PC's lifespan is getting longer so you may as well wait and get in when a new generation is introduced instead of grabbing the end life of a current cycle. I used to upgrade religiously every two years but when I look at what's out there, it just doesn't seem to matter as much.

Trias' PC is a good setup if you're buying now.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 28, 2008, 1:18 pm

Funny thing is, if you wait until the next build, then you may as well wait for the next one, and then the next and the next....

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 28, 2008, 1:25 pm

Canelek wrote:Funny thing is, if you wait until the next build, then you may as well wait for the next one, and then the next and the next....

I agree mostly but there are life cycles/generations of certain parts that make up a PC. You can pick your spots while not waiting forever.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 28, 2008, 1:34 pm

Canelek wrote:Funny thing is, if you wait until the next build, then you may as well wait for the next one, and then the next and the next....

Your right, keeping a top of the line PC is a losing battle. Generally a good time is to wait till they change architectures, like when Intel switched from netburst to core, it was a significant change, and there has been no need for me to upgrade my Core 2 Duo E6600 (yet).

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 28, 2008, 3:56 pm

And there likely won't be a reason to change again until the 32nm revision of Nahelem or whatever they call it on the next socket and marchitecture change...I meant I have no need to upgrade right now because my system is not bottlenecked in the least by my E6600 either.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » April 28, 2008, 4:23 pm

There's always something better, cheaper, if you wait. But you can't use it...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 28, 2008, 4:25 pm

Ashur wrote:There's always something better, cheaper, if you wait. But you can't use it...

Not true. When Dell's 24" LCD came out I put it right to use!

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » April 28, 2008, 4:26 pm

That's after you waited... if you're always waiting, you have nothing to use. You missed my point.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 28, 2008, 4:30 pm

Ashur wrote:That's after you waited... if you're always waiting, you have nothing to use. You missed my point.

I don't understand your point then. If I would have went with a 22", I would have regretted the 1680 x 1050 resolution. The quality of the 24" was also a step up from the lagged MS older LCDs which ghosted.

I had my CRT while I waited.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 28, 2008, 4:46 pm

The thing with desktops....well, the upcoming shit sounds nice and all, but I will end up replacing in a few years anyway. If I go for the DDR3/3xSLI/1333 shit, at least I have room to improve within the core build before I really feel the need to upgrade again.

Now, when I bought my notebook, I ignored the jump to DX10, HDMI and a few other things--regrettable in my case.

I am not going to worry so much about the changing architecture this time around.

Still hung up on:

Case
Power Supply
HDD
Blu Ray
Memory mfg

Getting there though! Thank you all for the comments and advice!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 28, 2008, 5:07 pm

The thing is, you think you're covered with Nvidia motherboard chipsets with an Intel processor...you are wrong!

There is a reason that Nvidia had to release the 780i chipset, and I'll tell you right now, it wasn't JUST for Tri-SLI. It was because Intel was being a dick and not sharing all the information with them so that the 680i chipset could be setup to run with penryn processors. So, Nvidia had to rehash the 680i to make the 780i so they could produce a penryn motherboard.

Think I'm crazy? The evga 680i motherboards have a bios that allows the use of 45nm penryn processors...not sure how they got it to work, but they did. Its not an nvidia release, because they are the only manufacturer offering a bios update to run 45nm chips so far.

Nvidia and Intel are in a pretty heated battle right now (stupid battle, and its all words), but bigger issues than the one outlined above are bound to come up eventually.

But, you are heart set on SLI, so you don't really have a choice. That's why I say buy the best processor for your 780i that you can, because it will probably not be a solid upgrade path...notice I qualified that statement with "PROBABLY"...because I have no idea how far Intel or Nvidia will take this fight they have with each other.

Not to go into too much detail, but Nvidia basicly stated that the CPU is relatively meaningless, because their GPU is what really matters in a rig. They ran some benchies using an old CPU with their newest GPU, and showed how its not very far behind the new hotness CPU with their same GPU. Its all fluff and bullshit, but again, Intel is the biggest kid on the block, and will be for the next decade, so not sure why Nvidia would pick that fight.

edit: You know, I kind of read through that too fast...are you building essentially the "same" as Trias? 790i chipset? If so, go with the evga board. And go with OCZ/Corsair memory...two best companies at making sure memory performs on all chipsets...plus, if it doesn't work, they are both no hassle companies.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 28, 2008, 5:34 pm

Yup--pretty much the same as Trias, evga and all(790i chipset).

I need to update my initial post--oops!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 28, 2008, 5:46 pm

Here's a tip: Upgrade when what you have now doesn't run the shit you want it to. Not just because something new came out and you think you need it.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 28, 2008, 6:05 pm

I bought my last desktop in 1998.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 28, 2008, 6:28 pm

That was a general tip for everyone based on reading the whole thread! Not specifically you.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 28, 2008, 6:56 pm

And I agree with the statement as well. We all can be tempted by the newest shiny!

These days it takes me so long to pull the trigger that there will be new technology by the time I hit 'submit'.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » April 29, 2008, 11:23 am

Aslanna wrote:Here's a tip: Upgrade when what you have now doesn't run the shit you want it to. Not just because something new came out and you think you need it.

Amen. I upgraded because everyone mocked my game performance (Rich could take smoke breaks and I could run to the bathroom while I zoned). It was time.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 29, 2008, 11:35 am

Ashur wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Here's a tip: Upgrade when what you have now doesn't run the shit you want it to. Not just because something new came out and you think you need it.
Amen. I upgraded because everyone mocked my game performance (Rich could take smoke breaks and I could run to the bathroom while I zoned). It was time.

I think Supreme Commander was the final straw for me. While playing with EQ2 guildmates, my CPU would bottleneck the game so bad that a 45 minute (game time) game would take 3+ hours.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 29, 2008, 12:35 pm

Supreme Commander is one of a few games that actually scales well with processor count. There's only like 3 or 4 games that utilize more than two cores, let alone one core.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 29, 2008, 12:38 pm

Kluden wrote:Supreme Commander is one of a few games that actually scales well with processor count. There's only like 3 or 4 games that utilize more than two cores, let alone one core.

Yeah, it did not like my little Socket 939 AMD 64 3800+, but it loves my quad-core.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 29, 2008, 12:59 pm

Looks like I will be ordering within the next week. I still need to figure out a few items, but once I have the other shit written down, it may be easier.

Thoughts on internal Blu Ray?

Power Supply - Those that Kluden linked were really nice, but I am still hoping to find a good modular one, if possible. As far as cases, there are so many to choose from, I am still undecided...the ones I like best are a little bit more than I want to spend.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 29, 2008, 2:41 pm

Alright, you modular loven' geek-ass:

Review of Antec TPQ-850
Cheapest Reputable Retailer selling The TPQ-850 FREE SHIPPING is HUGE for power supplies, as you probably know. Newegg has it for $200 still.

Review of Ultra X3 1kw
Directron cheapest reputable retailer (I've purchased from Directron, they're fine to deal with. Not Newegg, but just fine.

Thermaltake W0116RU 750w Review
Newegg with Free Shipping

I'd probably go with the Antec just due to the price differences after shipping.

edit: I have a modular power supply, and know what you mean.

If you must have 1000w, then get the latest hotness Corsair's 1000HX

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 30, 2008, 2:55 pm

Thanks! I will check these out.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » April 30, 2008, 3:18 pm

antec 850 doesn't have enough 6pin connections for the 4 that you will need if i remember...4 that you need if you want to do sli with 9800gtx's

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 1, 2008, 1:17 pm

Heh. Well, that is no good. No option to buy extra modular 6-pins? Although I am just going to go with 1 card initially, I will certainly buy a second when prices drop.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » May 1, 2008, 3:27 pm

On Newegg's specs, it says it comes with 2 x 6pin and 2 x 8pin...for a total of 4 PCIEx connectors...same with the antec page.

I assume that means two separate cables, with two connectors on each...but I could be very wrong and it could be 4 individual cables. My corsair does not split the pciex cables...they are all their own plug in from power supply to card...