Box office revenue grew to $27 billion in 2007

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 6, 2008, 4:29 pm

Box office revenue grew to $27 billion in 2007

The Motion Picture Association of America says movie goers around the world pushed box office revenue to a record $US26.7 billion last year. A report released says box office revenue outside North America climbed 4.9 per cent to $17.1 billion, representing nearly two-thirds of all ticket sales. Revenues in the United States and Canada increased 5.4 per cent to a record $9.6 billion, with admissions unchanged at 1.4 billion tickets sold but prices five per cent higher.

Looks like movie piracy is killing the industry.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 6, 2008, 5:33 pm

Winnow wrote:Looks like movie piracy is killing the industry.

If that makes you sleep easier as a thief, knock yourself out

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 6, 2008, 5:47 pm

Piracy is not theft, it is copyright infringement. No one is deprived of a tangible asset, that is the difference. Money spent combating Piracy is more analogous to theft, only against the shareholders, as they are spending tons of money litigating against people who never agreed to pay them.

To trod out this silly argument again.... I assume you never roll through a stop sign, always drive below the speed limit, and you never jaywalk... You never, ever, ever break a law, no matter your personal feeling on it... right?

Fuck you.

In addition, piracy is one of the single most important avenues of computer education in this country. Besides not negatively impacting sales, it has been shown to actually increase sales due to the increased product exposure.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 6, 2008, 6:28 pm

People still don't seem to get that just because someone downloads a movie or a comic online, doesn't mean they don't buy other movies, comics, etc.

It's short sightedness. The comic industry has been completely revitalized since scanned comics became popular. The movie industry, as seen from the figures above, also has not suffered from easy to download divx/xvid movies.

The comic industry is a little wiser to this than those that run the movie industry. In the same way, Microsoft realizes that people pirating Windows at home helps keep businesses paying license fees for Windows as it remains the most used/popular OS in the world.

Most people have an entertainment budget. If they pay $200/month for movies, they aren't going to pay more than that if they can't pirate the rest of the movies. They'll find something else to do. Whatever movies they download beyond their budget is free advertising for those movies which may be purchased in the future or it may get someone hooked on a franchise so they'll go to the movies and watch the next in the series. (same deal with comics. There's no chance in hell some will buy a particular new comic, but if they download it and enjoy it, they might start buying the series and even pick up the scanned back issues as well in the form of a trade paperback.

If you take the time to think about it instead of jump to conclusions, it might help you understand.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 6, 2008, 7:02 pm

Last year was the first year that I ever pirated movies, more or less. The first full year anyway. I downloaded probably around 200 movies, but the number of them that I watched and have not paid for in another form - be it previously on VHS or DVD (my DVDs somehow have a tendency to "walk off"), on the movie channels that we pay for every month, seeing them in the theater, or just watching them on television - has to be in the low double-digits. Most of those were on par with Epic Movie or sweaty turds like that. Almost all of the DVDs I download are stripped of all the extras that make a DVD worth paying for. I say this not to justify my actions, I sleep just fine at night, but to offer the following:

Last year I went to the movies more than any previous year in my life. I saw at least 20 movies in the theater, paying $9 - $13 per movie (I think 300 in Imax was like $13). It's not scientific proof by any means, but I agree with the assertion that movie piracy does not always hurt the movie business. After I saw Knocked Up in the theater and downloaded a pirated copy of the DVD, I showed it to a friend who subsequently insisted we go see Superbad on its opening weekend. I downloaded Hard Candy per a VV recommendation and became a fan of Ellen Page, that made me go see Juno early on in its run. I think movie critics are (for the most part) full of shit, and rely almost entirely on trailers that I see or word of mouth to get me excited to see a movie, and I know that often times those reviews will come from VV and the author will have seen the product initially via pirated means. One person violating one copyright leads to me violating that same copyright leads to me and 3 of my friends paying to see a movie, liking an actor/director and our rampant consumerism snowballing from there...

I'm not saying it's always the case, but I think there is a case to be made for piracy being beneficial to the industries that claim it is killing them.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 7, 2008, 4:29 am

Oddly, last year was easily my lowest year ever for going to the theater. I saw 2 movies. Spiderman 3 at the drive-in and 300 at the IMAX. I bought over 150 DVDs. I have several friends that use me as a free blockbuster, borrowing all my new releases the following days after I watch them. They never pay in any way to see these movies. I'm talking dozens of people and thier families here. For example, I watched 30 Days of Night which was released last Tuesday and I've already lent that movie out to 6-7 different people and I have 2-3 in line waiting.

Am I a criminal?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 7, 2008, 4:48 am

You're a scumbag.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 12:16 pm

Fash wrote:Piracy is not theft, it is copyright infringement. No one is deprived of a tangible asset, that is the difference. Money spent combating Piracy is more analogous to theft, only against the shareholders, as they are spending tons of money litigating against people who never agreed to pay them.

To trod out this silly argument again.... I assume you never roll through a stop sign, always drive below the speed limit, and you never jaywalk... You never, ever, ever break a law, no matter your personal feeling on it... right?

Fuck you.

In addition, piracy is one of the single most important avenues of computer education in this country. Besides not negatively impacting sales, it has been shown to actually increase sales due to the increased product exposure.

Since we are talking about pirating movies and none of the ridiculous garbage you are using in an attempt to make yourself sleep at night, nope never done it. They show you half of the movie in the damn trailer these days anyway.

So I guess I should say "fuck you" as well since I made you a touch angry. Oh well, grow a spine and realize that you broke the law, don't worry about me, I'm not breaking that one pudding pop.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 12:20 pm

Chidoro wrote:Since we are talking about pirating movies and none of the ridiculous garbage you are using in an attempt to make yourself sleep at night, nope never done it.

I'm using it in an attempt to make you realize what a colossal fuck-stain hypocrite you are, who feels the need to judge other people on a topic you are entirely uninformed upon. Ignorance makes me very angry.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 7, 2008, 12:25 pm

Fash wrote:
Chidoro wrote:Since we are talking about pirating movies and none of the ridiculous garbage you are using in an attempt to make yourself sleep at night, nope never done it.
I'm using it in an attempt to make you realize what a colossal fuck-stain hypocrite you are, who feels the need to judge other people on a topic you are entirely uninformed upon. Ignorance makes me very angry.

How does pirating a movie affect the safety of anyone? Your comparisons blew, admit it.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 12:33 pm

Winnow wrote:If you take the time to think about it instead of jump to conclusions, it might help you understand.

Actually, I do understand. You're an entertainment junkie and need to try everything, fully sanctioned demo or not. I am talking about movies and movie access has never been easier. I don't even need to go to a theatre any longer, I just wait until they are available and on demand it. $5 for two people and I can make my own air popped pop corn sans all of the yellow crap and talking heads.
Pirating movies may not make the dilligent movie goer to stop going to movies but it does prevent people like my retired parents from going. My uncle works in manhattan and either buys that crap or gets it passed to him from a friend. Eventually, it makes its way to my parents and they all end up watching the movie for free. The word of mouth is giving the free movie to another person, not going to the theatre. It bugs the shit out of me. I have even told them that it bugs the shit out of me and that they shouldn't do it, but they obviously don't care.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 12:34 pm

Fash wrote:
Chidoro wrote:Since we are talking about pirating movies and none of the ridiculous garbage you are using in an attempt to make yourself sleep at night, nope never done it.
I'm using it in an attempt to make you realize what a colossal fuck-stain hypocrite you are, who feels the need to judge other people on a topic you are entirely uninformed upon. Ignorance makes me very angry.

Nothing hypocritical about my stance since i've never nor will ever pirate a movie.
So "fuckstain" to you as well. Nya nya

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 12:57 pm

Chidoro wrote:i've never nor will ever pirate a movie.

Why not?

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 1:12 pm

What's the point?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 1:18 pm

That's not a valid answer. If your answer is "What's the point?" then I have to question your strong feelings on the issue. You do have strong feelings on it, as do I, so maybe you'd like to explain yourself? I have a feeling that if you resist, it's because your answer would prove my analogies valid.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 7, 2008, 1:20 pm

Fash wrote:That's not a valid answer. If your answer is "What's the point?" then I have to question your strong feelings on the issue. You do have strong feelings on it, as do I, so maybe you'd like to explain yourself? I have a feeling that if you resist, it's because your answer would prove my analogies valid.

or it would prove you're an idiot!

Really, the ONLY similarity between your analogy and the topic was the law being broken. I guess that also means that you, as a pirate, would have no problem killing people!

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 1:27 pm

Fash wrote:That's not a valid answer. If your answer is "What's the point?" then I have to question your strong feelings on the issue. You do have strong feelings on it, as do I, so maybe you'd like to explain yourself? I have a feeling that if you resist, it's because your answer would prove my analogies valid.

It's completely valid. I already explained the avenues that you know in which you can watch movies that don't break the bank. So what's the point in doing it? Why do you do it? Is there some hidden magnaminous rationale you're trying to convey?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 1:27 pm

Boogahz wrote:Really, the ONLY similarity between your analogy and the topic was the law being broken.

That's the only similarity that was intended, and the only one that matters. Most people DO break laws, as there are a lot of stupid ones, and many more that are unnecessary and impossible to enforce. So when one person gets uppity about someone else breaking a law that doesn't hurt anyone, it is valid to question whether that person ever breaks a law.

Few things aggravate me more than anti-piracy nuts and anti-marijuana nuts.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 1:32 pm

Fash wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Really, the ONLY similarity between your analogy and the topic was the law being broken.
That's the only similarity that was intended, and the only one that matters. Most people DO break laws, as there are a lot of stupid ones, and many more that are unnecessary and impossible to enforce. So when one person gets uppity about someone else breaking a law that doesn't hurt anyone, it is valid to question whether that person ever breaks a law.

Few things aggravate me more than anti-piracy nuts and anti-marijuana nuts.

There's a cost associated to the entertainment for a reason. Why do you ignore that? Because it's not hurting someone? There's nothing hypocritcal about my stance. I don't do it.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 7, 2008, 1:35 pm

Fash wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Really, the ONLY similarity between your analogy and the topic was the law being broken.
That's the only similarity that was intended, and the only one that matters. Most people DO break laws, as there are a lot of stupid ones, and many more that are unnecessary and impossible to enforce. So when one person gets uppity about someone else breaking a law that doesn't hurt anyone, it is valid to question whether that person ever breaks a law.

Few things aggravate me more than anti-piracy nuts and anti-marijuana nuts.

speeding doesn't hurt anyone?

running a stop sign doesn't hurt anyone?

jaywalking doesn't hurt anyone?

The point is, each of those things CAN hurt someone physically. Pirating a movie does not pose a direct physical threat. They are not the same except in your head as you attempt to justify your own actions.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 1:42 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Fash wrote:That's not a valid answer. If your answer is "What's the point?" then I have to question your strong feelings on the issue. You do have strong feelings on it, as do I, so maybe you'd like to explain yourself? I have a feeling that if you resist, it's because your answer would prove my analogies valid.
It's completely valid. Why do you do it?

Over the past 20 years, there are many things that either:
a) I am not willing to pay for, no matter what. (shitty movies, some software)
or
b) I am not able to pay for (expensive software)

That said, since it doesn't hurt anyone or deprive anyone of anything, why shouldn't I still be able to watch/use it?

Back to what I said originally, about piracy as an educational tool... I am a computer guy. 22 years ago, my second computer the C-64 was also my first introduction to piracy... It has continued since then to be a critical source of knowledge and ideas. I owe my education to piracy, as well as my interest in computers which was increased by piracy.

How is a teenager ever going to get their hands on Photoshop, Flash, or Visual Studio? Do you really think many parents are going to drop $600 on software? Piracy is the answer, not the problem.

I do not question the legitimacy of the law, Copyright Infringement, only the enforcement of it against individual consumers or really small businesses.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 2:04 pm

Fash wrote:
Chidoro wrote:
Fash wrote:That's not a valid answer. If your answer is "What's the point?" then I have to question your strong feelings on the issue. You do have strong feelings on it, as do I, so maybe you'd like to explain yourself? I have a feeling that if you resist, it's because your answer would prove my analogies valid.
It's completely valid. Why do you do it?
Over the past 20 years, there are many things that either:
a) I am not willing to pay for, no matter what. (shitty movies, some software)
or
b) I am not able to pay for (expensive software)

That said, since it doesn't hurt anyone or deprive anyone of anything, why shouldn't I still be able to watch/use it?

Why do they charge anyone than? If there's a cost associated w/ something and it is not paid, it doesn't deprive the company who is charging that price? If you're a willing viewer of charged entertainment and you don't pay for it, that doesn't deprive anyone? If that entertainment is not up to your standards, it's now your prerogative to ignore the cost and watch it anyway, in lieu of just doing something else? Are you that self-entitled and/or impatient?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 7, 2008, 2:08 pm

I throw my pennies on the tray in stores if I pay with cash so I figure things will even out over time as I help pay for other people's stuff!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 2:11 pm

Chidoro wrote:Why do they charge anyone than? If there's a cost associated w/ something and it is not paid, it doesn't deprive the company who is charging that price? If you're a willing viewer of charged entertainment and you don't pay for it, that doesn't deprive anyone? If that entertainment is not up to your standards, it's now your prerogative to ignore the cost and watch it anyway, in lieu of just doing something else?

Don't be silly. They charge because most people are willing and able to pay. The market works quite well, and if anything is helped by piracy. I encourage others to buy software if they can afford it, but I also help those who cannot (or will not.)

If you are unwilling or unable to pay for a digital item, then no, it does not deprive the company of anything. They weren't involved in the transaction, they have no knowledge of it, and nothing left their possession. It's that fucking simple... Their copyright was infringed, that is all, and targeting individual consumers is pointless except for the fear factor.

Chidoro wrote: Are you that self-entitling and/or impatient?

Yes, I am a US American.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 7, 2008, 2:33 pm

As a person who spends a lot of time and money on the movie industry, it dosen't bother me at all that people steal it. I think it's a lot different than people shoplifting or stealing other physical items.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 2:54 pm

Boogahz wrote:speeding doesn't hurt anyone?

running a stop sign doesn't hurt anyone?

jaywalking doesn't hurt anyone?

The point is, each of those things CAN hurt someone physically.

And you say my argument is stupid?

No, none of those things hurt people. Idiots hurt people. You can speed safely, not stop at a stop sign safely when you're clearly able to see no one is around, and walk across a street safely.

By your logic, just driving at all CAN hurt someone physically. It can, but that's not illegal now is it?... Idiots can hurt people at any speed or in any situation.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » March 7, 2008, 3:31 pm

Fash wrote: How is a teenager ever going to get their hands on Photoshop, Flash, or Visual Studio? Do you really think many parents are going to drop $600 on software?

It makes no difference to me if someone pirates or not. But, for the record, when I was a teenager I worked at CompUSA and software reps used to come out all the time and virtually beg us to take their software so we would use it and push it on customers. I got thousands of dollars worth of software a year, legal and free. Basically everything adobe, corel, microsoft, symantic (shit sofware) and whoever else put out. Additionally, we got things like free palm pilots and phones if we could show we sold X number of them...and people bought them whether you tried to sell them or not so it was basically free with no work as well.

The point is, there are ways to get it legit and free. And, that being said, I dowloaded plenty of MP3s and movies back in the day, I just don't see a need to do it anymore. I found that I would download things and never watch and/or listen to them, I just liked to have them....then there was no point anymore and I just stopped.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 4:07 pm

Fash wrote:
Chidoro wrote:Why do they charge anyone than? If there's a cost associated w/ something and it is not paid, it doesn't deprive the company who is charging that price? If you're a willing viewer of charged entertainment and you don't pay for it, that doesn't deprive anyone? If that entertainment is not up to your standards, it's now your prerogative to ignore the cost and watch it anyway, in lieu of just doing something else?
Don't be silly. They charge because most people are willing and able to pay. The market works quite well, and if anything is helped by piracy. I encourage others to buy software if they can afford it, but I also help those who cannot (or will not.)

If you are unwilling or unable to pay for a digital item, then no, it does not deprive the company of anything. They weren't involved in the transaction, they have no knowledge of it, and nothing left their possession. It's that fucking simple... Their copyright was infringed, that is all, and targeting individual consumers is pointless except for the fear factor.

There's nothing silly about it, if it's an item that is charged a value and you don't think it's worth whatever the charge may be, than you don't deserve to use it (by your logic, I don't even know why would you bother as movie going isn't terribly expensive to begin with). The company deserves whatever the market deems appropriate. You circumvent that and are, therefore, depriving the company the money they should have received since you obvoiusly felt the movie had enough merit for you to steal and watch in the first place.

Yes, I am a US American.

And that's the attitude that has the country in such fiscally hot water these days. Me me me, mine mine mine. I know that's how you feel else you wouldn't be stealing movies.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 7, 2008, 4:18 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Yes, I am a US American.
And that's the attitude that has the country in such fiscally hot water these days. Me me me, mine mine mine. I know that's how you feel else you wouldn't be stealing movies.

It's that attitude that made America what it is today. A great country that people die trying to get here and others die trying to destroy it. Socialist scumbags like you will continue to try and change it with your bullshit altrustic rose colored glasses perspective of the world and we will continue to fight you.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 4:24 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Chidoro wrote:
Yes, I am a US American.
And that's the attitude that has the country in such fiscally hot water these days. Me me me, mine mine mine. I know that's how you feel else you wouldn't be stealing movies.

It's that attitude that made America what it is today. A great country that people die trying to get here and others die trying to destroy it. Socialist scumbags like you will continue to try and change it with your bullshit altrustic rose colored glasses perspective of the world and we will continue to fight you.

So America got to be a great country by taking things that didn't belong to them? How the hell is giving free enterprise the money they should be earning socialist? Do you even know what the fuck you just typed?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 7, 2008, 4:26 pm

So if you're opposed to theft you're a socialist?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 4:34 pm

Are you really going to keep calling it theft when it's not?

It is Copyright Infringement, you ignorant taint mangoes.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 4:38 pm

again, if it makes you sleep better at night, call it "happy pussycat boots" for all I care

miir · Post by **miir** » March 7, 2008, 4:39 pm

Fash wrote:Are you really going to keep calling it theft when it's not?

It is Copyright Infringement, you ignorant taint mangoes.

I'm just amused at the lengths some people will go to justify theft.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 7, 2008, 4:48 pm

Chidoro wrote:
There's nothing silly about it, if it's an item that is charged a value and you don't think it's worth whatever the charge may be, than you don't deserve to use it (by your logic, I don't even know why would you bother as movie going isn't terribly expensive to begin with). The company deserves whatever the market deems appropriate. You circumvent that and are, therefore, depriving the company the money they should have received since you obviously felt the movie had enough merit for you to steal and watch in the first place.

That's not true. I download a million headers in alt.binaries.divx every so often and then browse through them looking for interesting movies, many of which are foreign films. If those movies aren't there, I'd be browsing something else or clipping my fingernails. There is zero chance of revenue from me if those movies aren't available for me to download. Now, when I do see one I like, first of all, I post about it here and sometimes people rent them or check them out. Next, I make note of the actors and actresses that I like and pursue more of their movies and follow their upcoming movies. I won't go to the movies because that's a pain in the ass and I don't enjoy the experience as much as viewing from home. I subscribe to HBO even though I don't watch it so that covers a bunch of movies. Whatever movies that air on HBO I suppose I've paid for those but instead of using the DVR, download them from the newgroups. I download TV series that air on channels I pay for but don't watch. If you wanted to be a nerd about it, I could subscribe to Netflix and then just download the movies from the newsgroups and that would cover me for everything and save the mailman some hassle.

The most important part that people seem to not understand is that I still pay more than most for multimedia. Sylvus pointed out his own situation that falls in line with this. It's fantastic free advertising.

Go back and read some early posts on the comics forum. Multiple people mention how much they'd spent on comics after being reintroduced to them in scanned format. They spent zero before that after having dropped the hobby at an earlier date. So, scanned comics = more revenue for the comic industry.

Sylvus' example of being introduced to Ellen Page in that perv movie Hard Candy which resulted in him going to see Juno at the theaters is a good example.

I defend this because I like to debate things but it doesn't really need defending as it's obvious that piracy most certainly isn't all bad and quite possibly a positive for most media industries.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 4:51 pm

I'm just amused at the lengths some people will go to just to get under my skin.

Theft involves taking something and the other person no longer having it. Piracy never results in this. It is not theft. Fuck.

You guys are too funny... In one thread (strikes) you can bash Hollywood like it's the devil (while I supported it and bashed the unions) and in another you support them (against a cause that obviously doesn't hurt them). When I say funny, I mean retarded.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 7, 2008, 4:56 pm

So you'd be ok with someone hacking into your router, using your bandwidth and accessing your hard drives.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 7, 2008, 5:00 pm

miir wrote:So you'd be ok with someone hacking into your router, using your bandwidth and accessing your hard drives.

Whenever I'm not maxing out my bandwidth at 12.61Mbps, someone is using bandwidth that could have been mine. I tend to max out my bandwidth a lot though! Others on my subnet are more than welcome to partake in my unused bandwidth.

I post a lot of things that are on my HD. There's close to 10,000 images available for anyone to view/download.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 7, 2008, 5:10 pm

miir wrote:So you'd be ok with someone hacking into your router, using your bandwidth and accessing your hard drives.

Not that your remark has much relevance to the topic at hand, but if they are able to get past my security and do this without depriving me of anything, then sure... It's my responsibility to make sure my shit is secure, and to respond to any attacks or breaches by fixing it.

Hacking the router and using some bandwidth is not much of an issue... I do have a secure wifi, but it could be sniffed out. Accessing the hard drives is a bit questionable... there are probably other, privacy related, laws that affect this. Now if it was a hard drive full of my own copyrighted digital content and they just take a copy, then yes it's totally acceptable.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 7, 2008, 5:17 pm

Winnow wrote:
Chidoro wrote:
There's nothing silly about it, if it's an item that is charged a value and you don't think it's worth whatever the charge may be, than you don't deserve to use it (by your logic, I don't even know why would you bother as movie going isn't terribly expensive to begin with). The company deserves whatever the market deems appropriate. You circumvent that and are, therefore, depriving the company the money they should have received since you obviously felt the movie had enough merit for you to steal and watch in the first place.

That's not true. I download a million headers in alt.binaries.divx every so often and then browse through them looking for interesting movies, many of which are foreign films. If those movies aren't there, I'd be browsing something else or clipping my fingernails. There is zero chance of revenue from me if those movies aren't available for me to download. Now, when I do see one I like, first of all, I post about it here and sometimes people rent them or check them out. Next, I make note of the actors and actresses that I like and pursue more of their movies and follow their upcoming movies. I won't go to the movies because that's a pain in the ass and I don't enjoy the experience as much as viewing from home. I subscribe to HBO even though I don't watch it so that covers a bunch of movies. Whatever movies that air on HBO I suppose I've paid for those but instead of using the DVR, download them from the newgroups. I download TV series that air on channels I pay for but don't watch. If you wanted to be a nerd about it, I could subscribe to Netflix and then just download the movies from the newsgroups and that would cover me for everything and save the mailman some hassle.

The most important part that people seem to not understand is that I still pay more than most for multimedia. Sylvus pointed out his own situation that falls in line with this. It's fantastic free advertising.

Go back and read some early posts on the comics forum. Multiple people mention how much they'd spent on comics after being reintroduced to them in scanned format. They spent zero before that after having dropped the hobby at an earlier date. So, scanned comics = more revenue for the comic industry.

Sylvus' example of being introduced to Ellen Page in that perv movie Hard Candy which resulted in him going to see Juno at the theaters is a good example.

I defend this because I like to debate things but it doesn't really need defending as it's obvious that piracy most certainly isn't all bad and quite possibly a positive for most media industries.

I think you are mixing a lot of things that aren't necessarily equivalent. Would you watch a movie you were interested in seeing for free during a time when the movie isn't supposed to be free and not pay for it whether you ended up liking it or not and regardless of what comes in the future from liking or disliking it? Because if you pay for it in the avenue you are supposed to at that point in time of distribution, you are still going to be able to to provide positive or negative feedback and give the same "promotion" you were intending.
I don't know what a "header" is but if it's just a glorified trailer, I don't give a crap. If it's an entire movie, that is something different.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 7, 2008, 5:23 pm

Hrmm I haven't downloaded a movie that wasn't porn related in a long time. I actually have a friend that supplies me with mainstream movies in .avi form so I can watch them at work during slow times, like today. I do however have some kind of addiction to buying DVD's. Whenever I go into a Best Buy you can bet that if I can't find what I want in the computer area I am at least leaving with a movie of some kind. Usually if I can't find a movie I want at the price I want I'll buy a kids movie for my daughter like Backyardigans or Veggy Tales.

Do I consider myself a pirate? Nah but I really do like saying Arrrrrrr.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 8, 2008, 12:53 am

In the criminal law, theft (also known as stealing) is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

If I make a movie, and sell it out of the trunk of my car, and someone buys it, and uploads it to the internet for others to download (without my consent), every person who downloads my movie, is stealing it from me. It is not their movie. They didn't make that movie, I did. That movie is my property!

Downloading movies and music illegally is theft!

P.S. If this guy makes copies of my movie, and sells those copies, that's copyright infringement.

more P.S. Uploading movies for others to download would be copyright infringement too!

To sum up:

uploading = copyright infringement

downloading = theft

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » March 8, 2008, 3:39 am

So America got to be a great country by taking things that didn't belong to them?

Didn't we take the entire continent from Native Americans?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 8, 2008, 3:54 am

Tyek wrote:
So America got to be a great country by taking things that didn't belong to them?

Didn't we take the entire continent from Native Americans?

Manifest Destiny!

Stupid French! I guess the Canadians didn't have the skills to boot the French out of Quebec!

"It is America's right to stretch from sea to shining sea. Not only do we have a responsibility to our citizens to gain valuable natural resources we also have a responsibility to civilize this beautiful land."

Americans claimed they were bringing God, technology and civilization to the the west. Of course they also brought death, disease and war but that was never publicized.

Sing with me!

Manifest Destiny
More blood on the hands of Christ
They called themselves Christians
And gave themselves the rights
Disguised as missionaries
They were really after gold
Many Indians died for that
How many's never told

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 9, 2008, 4:56 pm

To the dinosaurs still going on about how downloading is so evil, get off your high horse. I don't imagine Spielberg will be begging in the streets anytime.

If anything, movie downloads help the artform as a whole, more film makers get a chance to be recognised without massive companies like Fox or WB or whoever needing to back them.

I would have no problem with creating something and people watching it for free. Not every writer/musician/film maker/whatever is in it for the money btw.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 9, 2008, 7:26 pm

Nick wrote:To the dinosaurs still going on about how downloading is so evil, get off your high horse. I don't imagine Spielberg will be begging in the streets anytime.

You should steal your car because you won't see the CEO of Honda, Toyota or even General Motors begging on the streets anytime soon.
Maybe you should steal your new HD LCD TV... the CEO of Sony won't be begging on the streets anytime soon... right?
Steal the gas for your stolen car too.. the oil companies are already making enough money!!

Nice fucking logic there, Nick.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 9, 2008, 8:00 pm

Your logic sucks worse, Miir. All of those things you mentioned are physical property. It's an entirely different realm from digital content.

No one that is advocating piracy here would support theft. It seems impossible to get through your thick skulls that piracy is not theft, so you can't compare them without looking like a fucking retard.

You're good at that though.

One last time... Piracy helps the market. Piracy is at all time highs, and so are profits.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » March 9, 2008, 8:11 pm

No, that's terrible logic Miir. Jesus.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 9, 2008, 8:20 pm

Fash wrote:Your logic sucks worse, Miir. All of those things you mentioned are physical property. It's an entirely different realm from digital content.

No one that is advocating piracy here would support theft. It seems impossible to get through your thick skulls that piracy is not theft, so you can't compare them without looking like a fucking retard.

You're good at that though.

One last time... Piracy helps the market. Piracy is at all time highs, and so are profits.

Downloading digital content that isn't yours (without consent) is theft!

I download music that isn't mine all the time.

I am a thief! I am a scumbag!

And so are you!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 9, 2008, 8:41 pm

Spang wrote:Downloading digital content that isn't yours (without consent) is theft!

I download music that isn't mine all the time.

I am a thief! I am a scumbag!

And so are you!

No it's not, fucker! It's Copyright Infringement!

You are not a scumbag! (for that reason at least)

This thread is over.