Transgender Elementary

[Fash]

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=85989

HIGHLANDS RANCH – The issue of being transgender usually pops up with students in high school. However, a 3rd grade boy wants to dress as a girl and wants teachers and students to address him with a girl's name.

"As a public school system, our calling is to educate all kids no matter where they come from, what their background is, beliefs, values, it doesn't matter," said Whei Wong, Douglas County Schools spokesperson.

Wong says the staff at one of Douglas County's schools is preparing to accommodate the student and answer questions other students might have. In order to protect the child as much as possible, 9NEWS has chosen not to reveal his school or other names that might identify the child.

"I see this as being a very difficult situation to explain to my daughter to explain why someone would not want to be the gender they were born with," said Dave M.

His daughter will be in the same class as the student.

The student had attended this same school in years prior, but had left to go to classes in another district for about two years. The transgender student will be returning to what is the child's home school. Dave M. thinks classmates will recognize the change.

"I do think that there's going to be an acknowledgement that 'Why are you in a dress this year when you were in pants last year?'" said Dave M.

Wong says teachers are planning to address the student by name instead of using he or she. The child will not use the regular boys or girls bathroom. Instead, two unisex bathrooms in the building will be made available. The school is handing out packets to parents who have questions. The packets contain information about people who are transgender.

"I think it is unusual," said Wong. "It's something we haven't had discussions about before. It's something that we haven't maybe really had to think about before, but now we will."

Family Therapist Larry Curry hopes the child and his parents are seeing a counselor just to be safe.

"I am very concerned because with the guidelines in place, this is a very early age," said Curry. "I don't know too many parents who are equipped to answer that kind of question or deal with it without some other support."

Kim Pearson says the family is getting support. She is the executive director of a national organization called TransYouth Family Advocates. The group has been working with the family and Douglas County Schools.

"Initially there was a lot of resistance," said Pearson. "Now, their position is they want this child to be safe in their school."

Pearson says their group is working with an increasing number of families nationwide who have elementary age transgender kids.

"We know that families are more comfortable talking about this," she said. "There was no place for parents to go."

Pearson says children as young as 5 years old are realizing their true gender identity and her group wants to help parents who may be resisting the acceptance of this.

"Parents are likely to think this it's a phase, but how long do phases last?" said Pearson. "With these kids, it's something that's very consistent."

That thought is not comforting to Dave M., who believes his daughter is not ready to think about the issue of being transgender.

"I don't think a 3rd grader does have the rationale to decide this life-altering choice," said Dave M.

He is also unhappy with the way the school is handling this. The district has been preparing for the child's return to this school for months. Dave M. thinks other parents should have been made aware of this sooner.

"I just find it ironic that they can dictate the dress style of children to make sure they don't wear inappropriate clothing, but they have no controls in place for someone wearing transgender clothing," said Dave M.

Curry says parents like Dave M. should not bring the issue up to their students until they ask. However, he says parents should be ready to answer tough questions from the student's fellow third graders.

"I think reassuring them and letting them know that they'll be alright. Their classmate is alright," said Curry. "This is something their classmate has chosen to do. It is not contagious."

Pearson says the most important thing is to make sure the transgender student does not become the target of bullying or verbal abuse which can lead to suicide.

"These children are at high-risk," said Pearson. "Our number one goal is to keep kids safe."

Wong says mental health professionals will be available if students, staff, or parents have any concerns at all. She says the district views this as just another diversity issue and hopes everyone can accept and respect the student's wishes.

"Our staff has been briefed and trained to look for concerns," said Wong.

The family of the transgender student did not want to comment.

I have a big problem with this... If I had a kid there I might consider switching schools to avoid this clusterfuck of PC bullshit. This kids parents have done him a great disservice in supporting this. They should've beat it out of him.

[Boogahz]

You really are an ignorant fuck, aren't you?

I think the most important part of the story which you failed to see the same way was:

"I think it is unusual," said Wong. "It's something we haven't had discussions about before. It's something that we haven't maybe really had to think about before, but now we will."

[Fash]

Yes, now all the kids at that school will by human nature question their own gender identity... great stuff to think about!

[Animale]

Of course, it's people like you that the quote below is necessary (emphasis added).

Pearson says the most important thing is to make sure the transgender student does not become the target of bullying or verbal abuse which can lead to suicide.

"These children are at high-risk," said Pearson. "Our number one goal is to keep kids safe."

Wong says mental health professionals will be available if students, staff, or parents have any concerns at all. She says the district views this as just another diversity issue and hopes everyone can accept and respect the student's wishes.

So you want the different kids to be so miserable that they commit suicide... check!

Animale

[Bojangels]

The point is, the kid's in 3rd grade. There's a reason some decisions are left in the hands of parents until a child's a certain age. If it was my kid, I doubt I'd respect his wishes and just hope he'd grow out of it soon. If he didn't, I hope I'd be OK with it, but I was barely sentient when i was in 3rd grade. I have a hard time imagining anybody that young has any solid self identity.

[Fash]

The point is, the kid's in 3rd grade. There's a reason some decisions are left in the hands of parents until a child's a certain age. If it was my kid, I doubt I'd respect his wishes and just hope he'd grow out of it soon. If he didn't, I hope I'd be OK with it, but I was barely sentient when i was in 3rd grade. I have a hard time imagining anybody that young has any solid self identity.

That's my point exactly. There's no way a 3rd grader is able to understand and make these decisions, and considering the impact, his parents should never have allowed this.

[Boogahz]

yes, they should beat their child and teach them a lesson! We all know that having some kind of repressed confusion about yourself can only lead to good things down the road.

[Bojangels]

Who said anything about beating? Or are we just putting extreme reactionary rhetoric in the mouths of anyone with opposing viewpoints?

We should abandon our children at birth, let them fend for themselves and make their own decisions from day one!

We all know that 3rd graders are perfectly capable of making their own lifestyle choices, why do we even make them go to school?!

[Fash]

Who said anything about beating? Or are we just putting extreme reactionary rhetoric in the mouths of anyone with opposing viewpoints?

I said in the original post they should've beat it out of him. Pardon my usage of the word... I think you can figure my intent was not actually about beating the shit out of him, but controlling and admonishing him... nipping it in the bud when it started and never ever allowing it to get to this point.

[Sueven]

Transgender people are transgender. Figuring it out in 3rd grade is unusually early, but by no means unprecedented.

It makes sense that one would figure out that they're trans earlier than one would figure out that they're gay. Being gay relates almost exclusively to sex and therefore it's tough to figure it out until puberty or later. Being trans relates to far more than sex and thus it can be figured out before sexual expression becomes an issue.

If the kid is transgender, the school ought to accommodate him. It doesn't sound like a "PC clusterfuck" to me-- they're permitting him to be who he is (transgender), figuring out how to refer to him (by his name instead of gendered pronouns) making unisex bathrooms available, and warning parents that they may get tough questions. That sounds like a totally reasonable reaction to me.

Sure, some parents might not be happy that they have to answer questions about this so early. But the bottom line is that transgender people are real and transgender children are real, too. That's just how it is.

If parents don't want their children to live in the real world, the parents are responsible for removing their kids from the real world. It's not the responsibility of a public school to alter reality to fit the preferences of certain parents.

This is not something that you "control" or "nip in the bud." It's something that IS. This kids parents could no more make him a man than yours could make you a woman.

I highly recommend that you meet and speak with some transgender people.

[Bojangels]

My bad Boog.

Yeah I wouldn't advocate 'beating it out of them'. I'd still have a hard time taking anything a 3rd grader said seriously, but I've never heard of anything like this so early. If this is the age when kids figure this stuff out, then that's that.

[Boogahz]

Who said anything about beating? Or are we just putting extreme reactionary rhetoric in the mouths of anyone with opposing viewpoints?

We should abandon our children at birth, let them fend for themselves and make their own decisions from day one!

We all know that 3rd graders are perfectly capable of making their own lifestyle choices, why do we even make them go to school?!

What the fuck? So, you can't read the original fucking post, and you think that creating some other quote that has nothing to do with my own fits? Here it is again so you won't have to scroll through the whole story again:

I have a big problem with this... If I had a kid there I might consider switching schools to avoid this clusterfuck of PC bullshit. This kids parents have done him a great disservice in supporting this. They should've beat it out of him.

[Bojangels]

Yeah, I was posting drunk and didn't read the whole original Fash post. Sorry, your response was on target.

While I wouldn't support beating them, I wouldn't think my 3rd grade kid would be ready to make that kind of choice for him/herself.

[Funkmasterr]

I agree with bj (haha) and fash. The kid is too young to really know this for sure, and the other kids in his class are too young to have to have that kind of shit explained to them (since people like sueven and animale expect everyone to be so accepting).

Expecting the schools and everyone in them to make major adjustments for this one kid is absurd, especially because the next step is going to be for this to be a standard and all schools will have to change, in case they happen to have a transgender student, god forbid that student is uncomfortable with their very odd and very uncommon affliction (yes, thats what I think of it as, an unfortunate affliction)- Instead, let's make them nice and cozy and make everyone else uncomfortable in the process. How very accepting and caring of you all..... liberal ideals make my fucking stomach turn.

[Animale]

So what's your solution? Treat these kids like they are outcasts? Shun them? I know, let's put them in their own special school and put patches on their clothing saying "IT'S A TRAP!"

It's not like it's a horrible, horrible imposition here - just call people what they want to be called, and treat them with dignity however they dress in school. Just because YOU are uncomfortable with it or it "icks you out" doesn't make them any less of a person. Get the fuck over yourself and let them be who they are with a minimal intrusion of a few unisex bathrooms and no sexual pronouns. Your problems with mixed gender identities should not be imposed on someone who is undecided upon theirs.

Animale

[Winnow]

This situation happens in hentai all the time!

[Funkmasterr]

So what's your solution? Treat these kids like they are outcasts? Shun them? I know, let's put them in their own special school and put patches on their clothing saying "IT'S A TRAP!"

It's not like it's a horrible, horrible imposition here - just call people what they want to be called, and treat them with dignity however they dress in school. Just because YOU are uncomfortable with it or it "icks you out" doesn't make them any less of a person. Get the fuck over yourself and let them be who they are with a minimal intrusion of a few unisex bathrooms and no sexual pronouns. Your problems with mixed gender identities should not be imposed on someone who is undecided upon theirs.

Animale

Parents shouldn't have to explain to their 7 year old child what transgender is because of one fucking student. Conversations with your children about sex, etc are important, the timing of them is important, and this is forcing parents to address the issue earlier than they may have felt appropriate for their child. So basically you are saying because of one kid, it's ok to undermine parents ideas of how they should raise their children? No, we don't need to be all accepting (and won't as a country, ever) of every fucking thing and every fuckingbody, get over it, and get over it real fucking soon.

[Aslanna]

So basically you are saying because of one kid, it's ok to undermine parents ideas of how they should raise their children?

?

How does it undermine how they are raising their children? That statement is totally ridiculous.

[Sueven]

Expecting the schools and everyone in them to make major adjustments for this one kid is absurd

THIS is absurd. What "major adjustments" are being made?

The children in the school have to make ZERO adjustments. They still go to class, they still use male or female bathrooms, they still are referred to as "he" or "she." The ONLY way their situation has changed is that they now go to school WITH a transgender child. How is that an imposition?

The administration and the teachers seem to have made two adjustments: providing a unisex bathroom (oh my WHAT A HARDSHIP) and referring to the student without using gendered pronouns. The gendered pronouns thing is a little silly, but it's not like anybody is going to get in serious trouble for mistakenly using the wrong pronoun. In all likelihood, the student will eventually want to be referred to as "she," given that she lives life as a female.

To those who think that this is a bad thing: What SHOULD be done with transgender children? I know you think that they're too young to know that they're trans, and should be forced to conform to gender roles. What if this doesn't work and they continue to live as the opposite gender? What do you do with them at that point?

Also, what's so wrong with a child seeing a tranny? Being a transexual is kind of a big deal... it's not a fucking fad. Do you think that you would now consider yourself a woman if you had been exposed to a transexual child in third grade? I sure as hell do not-- I'm a dude, and nothing in my youth would have changed that. Do you really think our identities are so malleable that things like this could reshape them? I have more confidence in my sexual and gender identity than that.

[Boogahz]

So what's your solution? Treat these kids like they are outcasts? Shun them? I know, let's put them in their own special school and put patches on their clothing saying "IT'S A TRAP!"

It's not like it's a horrible, horrible imposition here - just call people what they want to be called, and treat them with dignity however they dress in school. Just because YOU are uncomfortable with it or it "icks you out" doesn't make them any less of a person. Get the fuck over yourself and let them be who they are with a minimal intrusion of a few unisex bathrooms and no sexual pronouns. Your problems with mixed gender identities should not be imposed on someone who is undecided upon theirs.

Animale

Parents shouldn't have to explain to their 7 year old child what transgender is because of one fucking student. Conversations with your children about sex, etc are important, the timing of them is important, and this is forcing parents to address the issue earlier than they may have felt appropriate for their child. So basically you are saying because of one kid, it's ok to undermine parents ideas of how they should raise their children? No, we don't need to be all accepting (and won't as a country, ever) of every fucking thing and every fuckingbody, get over it, and get over it real fucking soon.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

What country are you from?

[Sueven]

Conversations with your children about sex, etc are important, the timing of them is important, and this is forcing parents to address the issue earlier than they may have felt appropriate for their child.

Unfortunately, the fact that a REAL WORLD exists outside of a family often forces families to confront issues earlier than they might prefer. Pesky reality, huh?

[Boogahz]

Conversations with your children about sex, etc are important, the timing of them is important, and this is forcing parents to address the issue earlier than they may have felt appropriate for their child.

Unfortunately, the fact that a REAL WORLD exists outside of a family often forces families to confront issues earlier than they might prefer. Pesky reality, huh?

I had these conversations in 3rd grade as well. I also learned about same-sex relationships through these talks. I have also always been straight. The fears that some people have make no sense to me.

[Aabidano]

Transgender people are transgender. Figuring it out in 3rd grade is unusually early, but by no means unprecedented.
....

This is not something that you "control" or "nip in the bud." It's something that IS. This kids parents could no more make him a man than yours could make you a woman.

I've seen (seemingly biased) arguments both ways and don't have an opinion honestly.

I still wonder how the kids parents reacted\contributed\whatever to it. My knee jerk reaction would be Münchhausen's syndrome by proxy. This just isn't something that (usually) occurs to kids at that age.

"Why Jimmy wears a dress" Isn't something I would have wanted to explain to my kids at that age. Explaining gays and why the people who lived in the projects down the road were in the situation they were in was bad enough.

[Animalor]

It's a real shame that it's so hard to explain the world we live in to our children...

[Funkmasterr]

Conversations with your children about sex, etc are important, the timing of them is important, and this is forcing parents to address the issue earlier than they may have felt appropriate for their child.

Unfortunately, the fact that a REAL WORLD exists outside of a family often forces families to confront issues earlier than they might prefer. Pesky reality, huh?

You are being inexcusably ignorant here. It changes things more than what you described above, because young kids ask questions, they don't just accept what is put in front of them. When Jimmy starts dressing like a girl, the kids are going to want to know why, and the parents are going to have to explain it to them.

I have no fear that my children seeing this is going to make them gay or trans, so whoever it was that implied that can try again. The problem I do have is this - third grade is in my opinion far too early to have to tell my child what transgender is, and have the sex talk with them, and being forced to do so because of something like this would infuriate me.

[Sueven]

I would like to reiterate that there is NO REASON to have the sex talk with your third grader because they learn about the existence of transgender people. You can say something like "Little Jimmy was meant to be born a girl, but something went wrong and he was born a boy. Now he's dressing like a girl because that's what he's supposed to be."

Will kids ask more questions? Sure. Maybe even "was I meant to be a girl?" To which you can say something like "no, you were born the way you were meant to be."

Your third grader will assuredly NOT ask you "so does Jimmy like to bang girls or boys?" If he's asking that, then your problems started way before the time your kid met a transexual third grader.

[Fash]

I would like to reiterate that there is NO REASON to have the sex talk with your third grader because they learn about the existence of transgender people. You can say something like "Little Jimmy was meant to be born a girl, but something went wrong and he was born a boy. Now he's dressing like a girl because that's what he's supposed to be."

How about "Little Jimmy THINKS he was meant to be born a girl."? I don't fucking buy that this kid is a transexual or has any idea of gender identity... I think he idolizes and wants to be like his mother, who is probably encouraging this behavior which I find nearly abusive.

Whatever is in his head... why does he have to go to school dressed as something he isnt?... Why can't he wear pants and be referred to as "he"?

He'll likely regret this later in life, and blame his parents.

[Spang]

Is there something wrong with a parent telling their son no?

Is that considered bad parenting these days?

[Sueven]

Is it possible that this is him having some weird obsession and not a manifestation of actual transexuality? Sure, I guess it's possible.

I don't think it's particularly likely. I didn't know anybody who would want to do something like this when I was in third grade. He's also got his mother's buy-in on this. Is it possible she's a nutjob who's enabling his crazy? Sure, I guess it's possible. But I don't have any reason to think that's true. Ultimately, the decision of how to raise a child belongs to the parent, not the public school system, and certainly not the government who runs the public school system. If she honestly believes that the kid is transexual, and she is choosing to allow him to live out his identity, that is her decision.

Add to the fact that it's entirely possible for a transexual person to realize their transexuality at a young age, and I don't see what the problem is here. Where are those libertarian principles? You're advocating for government mandated conformity in violation of the rights of the parents to raise their child?

Whatever is in his head... why does he have to go to school dressed as something he isnt?... Why can't he wear pants and be referred to as "he"?

He'll likely regret this later in life, and blame his parents.

I really urge you to meet and speak to some actual trans people. They're (generally) not just gay people who take it to an extreme. There is often a psychological need to live as the gender that the person experiences. And please, before you (or anyone) denigrates the seriousness of the need, please shut the fuck up until you (or anyone) go and actually TALK to some of the people you're judging.

[Funkmasterr]

Is it possible that this is him having some weird obsession and not a manifestation of actual transexuality? Sure, I guess it's possible.

I don't think it's particularly likely. I didn't know anybody who would want to do something like this when I was in third grade. He's also got his mother's buy-in on this. Is it possible she's a nutjob who's enabling his crazy? Sure, I guess it's possible. But I don't have any reason to think that's true. Ultimately, the decision of how to raise a child belongs to the parent, not the public school system, and certainly not the government who runs the public school system. If she honestly believes that the kid is transexual, and she is choosing to allow him to live out his identity, that is her decision.

Add to the fact that it's entirely possible for a transexual person to realize their transexuality at a young age, and I don't see what the problem is here. Where are those libertarian principles? You're advocating for government mandated conformity in violation of the rights of the parents to raise their child?

Whatever is in his head... why does he have to go to school dressed as something he isnt?... Why can't he wear pants and be referred to as "he"?

He'll likely regret this later in life, and blame his parents.

I really urge you to meet and speak to some actual trans people. They're (generally) not just gay people who take it to an extreme. There is often a psychological need to live as the gender that the person experiences. And please, before you (or anyone) denigrates the seriousness of the need, please shut the fuck up until you (or anyone) go and actually TALK to some of the people you're judging.

Like I stated in another thread recently, when I go out to bars I usually go out to my friends gay bar. They have one of the most popular drag shows in the country and we go up and watch it sometimes. I have no problem with this, these are mature adults who made this decision after years of thinking about it - and their doing it doesn't effect impressionable children.

[Fash]

You're advocating for government mandated conformity in violation of the rights of the parents to raise their child?

I don't believe I've done anything of the sort... I never brought the government or the school into this... I blame the parents.

I went through school, as I'm sure we all have... This kid is not going to have a fun time. They are worried about his safety for a reason, one which could be entirely avoided by stronger parenting or wearing pants.

[Ashur]

Girls wear pants too!

[Canelek]

Girls wear pants too!

Yeah, but not before they hit them with the ol' Bedazzler!

3rd grade... that is a wee bit early to have to deal with teenage confusion!

[Zaelath]

Funny part is 3rd graders are likely to be a lot more accepting of this behaviour than you so called enlightened elders who only have "the child's best interests at heart". While he might change his mind later on, the other kids in his classes are more likely to be better adjusted and accepting of other people than you will ever be.

[Wulfran]

I wonder what happens with this kid when he/she hits puberty and the hormones kick in...

As a 3rd grader I don't see much issue per se but with an eye to the future, what if when the testosterone hits, he reverts back but is ostracized by his peer group? You KNOW that this can and probably will (the ostracizing not necesarily the reversion). Even if he/she doesn't revert, how do you handle this kid for changing/showers in Phys Ed classes? Just as 3rd Graders accept, teenagers reject and ridicule and this kid will be a HUGE target.

[Boogahz]

I wonder what happens with this kid when he/she hits puberty and the hormones kick in...

As a 3rd grader I don't see much issue per se but with an eye to the future, what if when the testosterone hits, he reverts back but is ostracized by his peer group? You KNOW that this can and probably will (the ostracizing not necesarily the reversion). Even if he/she doesn't revert, how do you handle this kid for changing/showers in Phys Ed classes? Just as 3rd Graders accept, teenagers reject and ridicule and this kid will be a HUGE target.

well, they have been doing a very good job at avoiding that scenario. They just remove Physical Education from schools. You know...to save money.

[Sueven]

I don't believe I've done anything of the sort... I never brought the government or the school into this... I blame the parents.

Well, OK. As long as you don't dispute that it's the mothers right to raise her child in this way if she sees fit, and that the school is doing the appropriate thing by accommodating the child, then I don't really give a shit what you think of the mothers decision. I still think your opinion is wrong, but as long as you aren't trying to force it on anyone, doesn't bother me.

[Lalanae]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

Yeah, no thanks here either.

[Lalanae]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

Yeah, no thanks here either.

I don't even consider you for anything remotely enlightening anymore, so no need to pipe up!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

Yeah, no thanks here either.

I don't even consider you for anything remotely enlightening anymore, so no need to pipe up!

There's your arrogance again. Because you THINK it's enlightening, it must be....right? What an arrogant, elitist way to think. Sad.

[Aardor]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

Yeah, no thanks here either.

I don't even consider you for anything remotely enlightening anymore, so no need to pipe up!

There's your arrogance again. Because you THINK it's enlightening, it must be....right? What an arrogant, elitist way to think. Sad.

Love the ad hominem!

[Lalanae]

lol, what's sad is you refusing to see a film because it may OMG show you another side of an issue!

You calling me elitist/arrogant is pretty close to being complimentary, considering the source

[Bagar-]

'"Ma Vie en Rose" is a great movie that addresses this very thing.

I'm sure Fash will never see it though.

Yeah, no thanks here either.

I don't even consider you for anything remotely enlightening anymore, so no need to pipe up!

There's your arrogance again. Because you THINK it's enlightening, it must be....right? What an arrogant, elitist way to think. Sad.

Actually, enlightenment in the general sense of the word is subjective. What may be enlightening for you (for instance, watching WWE wrestling on monday nights while drinking beer and verbally abusing your wife) may not be for others - and vice versa. But I doubt that crossed your mind, it must just be that she's arrogant and everyone hates you, etc. etc.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

lol, what's sad is you refusing to see a film because it may OMG show you another side of an issue!

You calling me elitist/arrogant is pretty close to being complimentary, considering the source

And you do it again. I'm choosing not to watch a movie because it isn't about something that interests me. Not because it might show me another side of an issue. That would be stupid and close-minded. I hate Michael Moore and disagree with his tactics and many of his agendas, yet I have watched everyone of his movies, so I may see where he is coming from. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth though. Have a nice day.