McCain will be the next U.S. President (IMO)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 12, 2008, 3:49 am

McCain will be the next U.S. President. Hillary is not going to beat John McCain and it looks like the democrats might just be dumb enough to nominate her.

My only concern is McCain's health.

5 1/2 years spent in prison camp > Fake Tears

Mr. McCain has described his five and a half year imprisonment as a nightmarish time, in which he was beaten and kept in solitary confinement. Twice he tried to hang himself, only to be cut down and assaulted by the guards.

Mr. McCain was captured on Oct. 26, 1967, after his Navy plane was shot down while on a bombing run over Hanoi. He parachuted into a lake, breaking both arms and a leg.

On Tuesday, Mr. McCain paid a visit to the lake, known as Truc Bac, where he described to reporters being dragged ashore and beaten by an angry mob. On this visit, several curious locals stepped forward to greet Mr. McCain -- some posing for photographs with his family.

I'm trying to picture someone with two broken arms and a leg being dragged and then beaten.

McCain is someone who knows the bad side of war. I think that would play a heavy part in his decisions unlike most politicians who just calculate the numbers.

Poll: New Hampshire win rockets McCain to front-runner status

* Story Highlights
* Republican John McCain jumps 21 points from last poll, now at 34 percent
* Mike Huckabee, winner of Iowa GOP caucuses, in second with 21 percent
* Rudy Giuliani, former Republican front-runner, now in third with 18 percent
* Hillary Clinton up 9 points from previous poll, now at 49 percent

By Paul Steinhauser
CNN Deputy Political Director

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- John McCain's victory in Tuesday's New Hampshire primary appears to be paying off.

The senator from Arizona is the front-runner in the battle for the Republican presidential nomination, according to the first national poll taken after the New Hampshire primary.

McCain has the support of 34 percent of registered Republicans in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey out Friday. That's a 21-point jump from the last CNN/Opinion Research poll, taken in December, well before the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary earlier this month.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/11/ ... index.html

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 12, 2008, 4:42 am

He won't even win his party's nomination.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 12, 2008, 4:47 am

He'll get "South Carolina"d again I'm afraid.

Not that I would vote for him... I think he sold out his principles on the torture issue and, for me at least, he cannot regain any level of trust with me because of that. I thought that was a core thing to him, but he was able to be bought. It was a sad day for me when I realized that about him, I thought he was better than that. Oh well.

Animale

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 12, 2008, 4:52 am

All the Dems need is a "Swift Boat" smear campaign and McCain will go from being a war hero to becoming the fucking anti-christ.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 12, 2008, 5:05 am

Animale wrote:I think he sold out his principles on the torture issue and, for me at least, he cannot regain any level of trust with me because of that.

Please. The "torture" at Gitmo is like playtime with Barney compared to what McCain went through. That doesn't count!

You've got to get over the "sold out" mentality. All politicians sell out or they aren't getting elected.

Fairweather Pure wrote:All the Dems need is a "Swift Boat" smear campaign and McCain will go from being a war hero to becoming the fucking anti-christ.

You can't "swift boat" McCain because he didn't claim to be a hero or kill 1000 gooks with his teeth. He was shot down and endured 5 1/2 years in very hellish conditions. The democrats will be barking up the wrong tree if they try that.

McCain will get the Republican nomination this time. There's no hope for the republicans if he doesn't get it although if Hillary is nominated, we could and up with some religious nut job republican candidate if McCain doesn't get through the process.

I really do worry about his age and health but what can you do?

Obama needs 4 years as a VP to gain experience which it doesn't look like he's going to get the way the presidential race is shaping up.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 12, 2008, 5:12 am

Does this thread officially signal the beginning of another no-real-reason-for-fandom-other-than-Arizona-attachment love fest?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 12, 2008, 5:43 am

Xatrei wrote:Does this thread officially signal the beginning of another no-real-reason-for-fandom-other-than-Arizona-attachment love fest?

hehe

Nope! The fact that he's from Arizona has nothing to do with it! : ) If Hillary was from AZ, I wouldn't support her!

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » January 12, 2008, 3:02 pm

As an outsider to the American political system, McCain is the contender I like the most for the Republicans. He's someone who has been noted for being involved in, if not spearheading bi-partisan efforts on a number of issues, which is something that has been lacking under Bush's tenure. Like Winnow mentions the whole "been to a POW camp for the long haul" gets him credibility in dealing with issues like the "war on terror". The backing down on the torture issue and toadying up a bit to the Crispy Christies don't win him any points but I think they display the realistic side of politics: you have to give up some fights to win others. I do see his age as a concern though: poor fucker looks ready to keel over at times.

As far as the rest:

Huckabee - seems Bush-like on foreign policy and is another fundie freak the religious nuts will love
Giuliani - does he have a platform other than "I was the Mayor in both WTC attacks and we need to hit back at teh terrerrerrorists!!!"
Romney - where did he go? He seemed like the shoe in a couple months ago but no one talks about him at all
Thompson - he realizes this is an election and not an audition, right? And that being the most powerful person in the free world won't be scripted for him?
Paul - has some interesting views but regardless of his fund raising success, is too radical for most Americans to embrace: people like incremental change not rapid change

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 12, 2008, 3:12 pm

Please. The "torture" at Gitmo is like playtime with Barney compared to what McCain went through. That doesn't count!

Yeah it's only torture when it happens to Americans right? You fucking idiot.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » January 12, 2008, 5:31 pm

Nick wrote:
Please. The "torture" at Gitmo is like playtime with Barney compared to what McCain went through. That doesn't count!
Yeah it's only torture when it happens to Americans right? You fucking idiot.

Jebus that was dumb. Far cry from "water boarding" to "beating the shit out of someone with 4 broken limbs for hours"

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 12, 2008, 11:13 pm

What a bullshit strawman argument noysy. The fact remains that most of you fuckwits would rather skim over the atrocity that is Guantanamo, to make a cheap message board pseudo point (that's fucking moronic to say the least at the best of times), than acknowledge that McCain is a fucking sellout.

Your argument is wafer thin, defending it is embarrassing for everyone here.

Tangurena · Post by **Tangurena** » January 12, 2008, 11:58 pm

Animale wrote:He'll get "South Carolina"d again I'm afraid.

Not that I would vote for him... I think he sold out his principles on the torture issue and, for me at least, he cannot regain any level of trust with me because of that. I thought that was a core thing to him, but he was able to be bought. It was a sad day for me when I realized that about him, I thought he was better than that. Oh well.

I agree. He lost all credibility with me when he rolled over and spread his legs on the torture issue.

Fairweather Pure wrote:All the Dems need is a "Swift Boat" smear campaign and McCain will go from being a war hero to becoming the fucking anti-christ.

The Carolina campaign was cooked up by the bush team.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 13, 2008, 2:15 am

Nick wrote:What a bullshit strawman argument noysy. The fact remains that most of you fuckwits would rather skim over the atrocity that is Guantanamo, to make a cheap message board pseudo point (that's fucking moronic to say the least at the best of times), than acknowledge that McCain is a fucking sellout.

Your argument is wafer thin, defending it is embarrassing for everyone here.

Some of us have no issues with what happen in Guantanamo. Your arrogance in thinking everyone should share your level of concern is your problem, not ours.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 13, 2008, 2:27 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Some of us have no issues with what happen in Guantanamo. Your arrogance in thinking everyone should share your level of concern is your problem, not ours.

That's because you don't understand the big picture Mid. Nothing new.

Animale

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 13, 2008, 2:31 am

Animale wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Some of us have no issues with what happen in Guantanamo. Your arrogance in thinking everyone should share your level of concern is your problem, not ours.
That's because you don't understand the big picture Mid. Nothing new.

Animale

True.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » January 13, 2008, 4:27 pm

No body here understands the big picture. None of us know what they know. However if guantanamo stopped one single attack on the united states, it is worth it in my opinion.

That however, is my opinion. you can have yours.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 13, 2008, 5:09 pm

It makes us lose any chance at moral high ground when it comes to treating POWs humanely. We cannot condemn people torturing our soldiers, if we do not hesitate to torture our enemy - particularly under conditions that are as controlled and policy-driven as Guantanamo. This isn't some 19-year old who just saw his buddy's head blown off taking it out on a prisoner... I understand that in the field of battle shit happens (not that such an act should be condoned or forgiven, just that I understand that it can happen and shouldn't be held against the U.S. people as a whole), but when our government has set up policies that don't pass a smell test when it comes to torture then we have a problem. If one has to hide behind legalese to say an act isn't torture, well, then it IS torture in my mind - and in the mind of whoever our enemies may be.

I thought McCain of all people understood that, and his rhetoric before he caved seemed to say so. This isn't about "protecting" us, it's about ensuring that our soldiers who DO protect us have the moral right to protection from torture. If they do not have that, then we have SOLD THEM OUT.

Not that this administration has any problem selling out our soldiers or putting them in positions where failure is the most likely option, but I had hope that McCain would continue to fight against the most obvious case of the administration's failure to protect and support our troops. He didn't... and for that he lost any chance at my vote.

Animale

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 13, 2008, 8:53 pm

Noysyrump wrote:No body here understands the big picture. None of us know what they know. However if guantanamo stopped one single attack on the united states, it is worth it in my opinion.

That however, is my opinion. you can have yours.

Also, we never should have known about anything that happened at Guantanamo.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 13, 2008, 9:19 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Also, we never should have known about anything that happened at Guantanamo.

You can't seriously believe this. How would we stop the knowledge from getting out when so many of the people brought to Guantanamo turned out to not be the "bad guys?" Keep the innocent there forever to cover up what went on? Execute them willy nilly? I'd like an answer on this from you if there is one, but probably you just haven't thought about it. Secrets on this level cannot be kept for long, it's the way of the world.

Think about it... the only reason you don't want anybody to know what went one, is that what we did was WRONG. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. What is happening now is excusing actions after the fact, when the actions themselves are possibly criminal, definitely morally repugnant. Why else try to keep them secret? If it was all happy fun land then why try desperately to cover up what actually went on?

The most important part of a republican democracy is knowing what the government is doing. Keeping secrets forever is what evil men and governments do. Short term secrets, especially in directly applicable military actions, are understandable as long as enough people know to make checks and balances possible. Unfettered secrecy would (and IS) destroying our government from the inside out.

Animale

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 13, 2008, 9:25 pm

Seriously, that last post by Midnyte should be all the proof anyone needs that they shouldn't even bother responding to his posts in the first place. You'll be much happier.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 13, 2008, 11:10 pm

Yeah, contrary opinions should be ignored. Good thinking Aslanna. You're quite an amazing individual.

Anyways, I seriously do believe what I said. No press should be given to this sorts of things. No, I do not think they are wrong. I have problems with enemy prisoners being tortured. That's what they all do. Do you think the other side is giving them 3 square and treating them humanely? LOLZ Why is we don't hear about these things on the other side? I'll tell you.... because you hold the evil America to a different standard.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » January 13, 2008, 11:39 pm

because you hold the evil America to a different standard.

Correct, which is one of the stated reason's we have given for being there. I expect this country to be more humane and more advanced. I don't expect France, England, Australia, Canada, Italy and other first world countries to pull this shit either. I bet they do, but I expect more from them.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 14, 2008, 2:46 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Anyways, I seriously do believe what I said. No press should be given to this sorts of things. No, I do not think they are wrong. I have problems with enemy prisoners being tortured. That's what they all do. Do you think the other side is giving them 3 square and treating them humanely? LOLZ Why is we don't hear about these things on the other side? I'll tell you.... because you hold the evil America to a different standard.

Ok, let me get this straight. You want to muzzle the press on these things? Hide them under a rock? If you have no problem with them, then why are you against them being reported? Nothing to hide if it isn't wrong, right?

We need to treat others how we expect to be treated, or we become morally bankrupt. You, apparently, already are. I hope to never get there.

Animale

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 14, 2008, 4:17 am

Animale wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Anyways, I seriously do believe what I said. No press should be given to this sorts of things. No, I do not think they are wrong. I have problems with enemy prisoners being tortured. That's what they all do. Do you think the other side is giving them 3 square and treating them humanely? LOLZ Why is we don't hear about these things on the other side? I'll tell you.... because you hold the evil America to a different standard.
Ok, let me get this straight. You want to muzzle the press on these things? Hide them under a rock? If you have no problem with them, then why are you against them being reported? Nothing to hide if it isn't wrong, right?

We need to treat others how we expect to be treated, or we become morally bankrupt. You, apparently, already are. I hope to never get there.

Animale

I'm not saying my views on torture (necessarily), but I think that in general there are issues that the general [American] public can't handle, and it goes to reason that it would save a lot of hassle and resources keeping certain things unknown. How this affects policy isn't a black & white issue. Or is it? Either way, it's not as if the knowledge changes the situation from the perspective of the citizen.

Bojangels · Post by **Bojangels** » January 14, 2008, 4:36 am

Even if the government didn't allow journalists access to Guantanamo, how would it prevent people like the British detainess who were released from speaking to the press? Word would get out, and we'd look even worse for trying to cover it up. It would make it look like we knew it was wrong and were trying to hide it.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » January 14, 2008, 5:26 am

Degrade to the level of the enemy. Good thinking. Perhaps we should utilize suicide bombers and enlist young children in the military as well?

You're so fucking stupid.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 14, 2008, 5:31 am

Bojangels wrote:Even if the government didn't allow journalists access to Guantanamo, how would it prevent people like the British detainess who were released from speaking to the press? Word would get out, and we'd look even worse for trying to cover it up. It would make it look like we knew it was wrong and were trying to hide it.

Obviously, the correct solution is to simply keep the terrorist scum forever (yeah, they were released, but they had to be up to no good for us to detain them in the first place, am I right?). Better yet, just dispose of them quietly. What's a few more dead brown people in the world? C'mon, think man! It's all worth it to save us from the terrorists! Even if a few truly innocent people get caught up in the mess, who cares! Anything goes when protecting the greatest country ever!

Support our troops. Gawd bless the USA. Praise the Lord. These colors don't run! In the name of Ronald Reagan and GeeDub, Amen.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 14, 2008, 9:54 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, contrary opinions should be ignored. Good thinking Aslanna. You're quite an amazing individual.

It has nothing to do with you holding a contrary opinion. It has everything to do with the fact you're a complete fucking moron. Get the distinction?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 14, 2008, 10:44 am

Aslanna wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, contrary opinions should be ignored. Good thinking Aslanna. You're quite an amazing individual.
It has nothing to do with you holding a contrary opinion. It has everything to do with the fact you're a complete fucking moron. Get the distinction?

You're so cute.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » January 14, 2008, 1:12 pm

So what's your answer Mid? Or you just going to continue to avoid it and stick your head in the sand.

Also, I think that the "American People" are able to handle whatever information there is. Saying people can't handle it is a copout that people take to cover their tracks when they do something wrong, be it cheating on their significant other to the horrible things that happen in war.

Animale

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 14, 2008, 1:26 pm

Animale wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: Anyways, I seriously do believe what I said. No press should be given to this sorts of things. No, I do not think they are wrong. I have problems with enemy prisoners being tortured. That's what they all do. Do you think the other side is giving them 3 square and treating them humanely? LOLZ Why is we don't hear about these things on the other side? I'll tell you.... because you hold the evil America to a different standard.
Ok, let me get this straight. You want to muzzle the press on these things? Hide them under a rock? If you have no problem with them, then why are you against them being reported? Nothing to hide if it isn't wrong, right?

We need to treat others how we expect to be treated, or we become morally bankrupt. You, apparently, already are. I hope to never get there.

Animale

If we're in a war with another country, and I'm captured, I fully expect to be tortured or killed.

I'm sorry you live in a fairytale. I'm sorry you don't understand the stakes involved, or the steps that are necessarily taken in protecting our rights and freedoms. It saddens me that the biggest stink being made about this situation is from within the country, and the only benefactors are outside.

It's been said before... American media has internationalized, and as such, has lost all sense of patriotism and has begun attacking its own... for what motive, I can't say, but it certainly isn't for the idyllic principles you're espousing.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 14, 2008, 1:37 pm

Also, I think that the "American People" are able to handle whatever information there is.

This is the country that elected GWB. The same country run by loony right wing Christians, whose mere perspective on reality is so backwards in design (I've always hoped for a Zeus resurgence. At least he has lightning bolts) that the thought of people being gay is still foreign. If Kansas can't handle some homos, I don't think they can rise to this occasion.

Saying people can't handle it is a copout that people take to cover their tracks when they do something wrong, be it cheating on their significant other to the horrible things that happen in war.

It can be a copout, but in the case of war (and other things) it is often sensible. Have you ever noticed that this democracy is capable of perfectly maintaining corruption? "Checks and balances" my ass. If you're going to take an issue with this than I think there are a lot bigger fish to fry.

Fash wrote:It's been said before... American media has internationalized, and as such, has lost all sense of patriotism and has begun attacking its own... for what motive, I can't say, but it certainly isn't for the idyllic principles you're espousing.

Hear fucking hear.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 14, 2008, 2:01 pm

Leonaerd wrote:If Kansas can't handle some homos, I don't think they can rise to this occasion.

The Phelps family is hardly a true representation of Kansas.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » January 14, 2008, 3:11 pm

You can't handle the truth!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 14, 2008, 4:45 pm

It's interesting following the different news outlets covering the primaries.

There's a Reuters story saying that McCain leads Romney in Michigan all day while CNN reported that Romney leads McCain. Of course, the sample size and quality of these polls suck but the bias of various organizations is as bad as all the other corruption it politics.

Post by **Sylvus** » January 14, 2008, 4:50 pm

Anyone know the reason why Hillary is the only person on the Dem ballot in Michigan? I might have gone to vote in the primary if she weren't.

I read in the other thread that it was a result of the DNC imposing some sort of sanctions or something, but didn't hear any details.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 14, 2008, 5:08 pm

Sylvus wrote:Anyone know the reason why Hillary is the only person on the Dem ballot in Michigan? I might have gone to vote in the primary if she weren't.

I read in the other thread that it was a result of the DNC imposing some sort of sanctions or something, but didn't hear any details.

It's a penalty against Michigan for having their primary earlier than the DNC wanted. So, Hillary was already in on the ballot and the other Dems didn't bother because the delgates do not count. It is basically a wasted primary. Only problem, it will only go to make people think Hillary is gaining, unless they listen carefully to why she was the only one on the ballot.

Post by **Sylvus** » January 14, 2008, 5:21 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Anyone know the reason why Hillary is the only person on the Dem ballot in Michigan? I might have gone to vote in the primary if she weren't.

I read in the other thread that it was a result of the DNC imposing some sort of sanctions or something, but didn't hear any details.
It's a penalty against Michigan for having their primary earlier than the DNC wanted. So, Hillary was already in on the ballot and the other Dems didn't bother because the delgates do not count. It is basically a wasted primary. Only problem, it will only go to make people think Hillary is gaining, unless they listen carefully to why she was the only one on the ballot.

Ahh, that makes sense then. I remember the DNC crying about Michigan's early primary, didn't realize that was what they were doing.

I can't look at your avatar without seeing this image in my head:

Long live Vigo the Carpathian!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 14, 2008, 5:30 pm

What movie is that from?

Post by **Sylvus** » January 14, 2008, 5:33 pm

Ghostbusters II

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 14, 2008, 6:02 pm

Oh yeah!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 14, 2008, 6:08 pm

I am really surprised I knew the reference, despite the red X. I hated that movie.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 14, 2008, 6:30 pm

I liked it

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 14, 2008, 7:06 pm

Sylvus wrote: I can't look at your avatar without seeing this image in my head:

Long live Vigo the Carpathian!

Also known as Vigo the Cruel, Vigo the Torturer, Vigo the Despised, and Vigo the Unholy (but not Vigo the Butch).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 6:35 am

What I see with this poll is McCain winning if Hillary is nominated as all of those Hillary hater votes will flow to him.

Hillary still has the highest percentage of voters that will absolutely NOT vote for her. Better get Obama 6 more percent! (7 in case Hillary cries again)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 20, 2008, 11:02 am

go go McCain! Florida is a gimmie for McCain up next. I'm sure he made a deal with Bush before the 2004 elections to fix Florida for him in 2008.

It's not cool that the democrats are handing McCain the presidency without a fight though. Hillary is a guaranteed loss for the democrats. I'll make an avatar bet on it. If Hillary defeats McCain, I'll use a Hillary avatar for a year. If McCain wins, you must use a politician or sports figure from Arizona for a year, or Ronald Reagan.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 20, 2008, 11:15 am

I'll take a McCain/Hillary avatar bet (I'll put up McCain, you'll put up Hillary, depending on who loses)

Florida is going to be a big state because it's going to be Giuliani's attempt at a comeback. If Giuliani bombs there and McCain wins, then I'd say McCain has a pretty clear path to the nomination. Ron Paul is already out, I don't think Huckabee can win the nomination if he can't take South Carolina, and Fred Thompson is pretty much done. If McCain takes Florida, it'll be down to McCain and Romney. I think Romney would have a shot, because some of the conservatives leaving Thompson and Huckabee might end up in the Romney camp, but McCain would have to be the front-runner.

On the Democratic side, John Edwards is done.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 20, 2008, 11:16 am

Yeah, I fear Hillary would beat McCain. There's a reason why the media is pushing McCain.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 20, 2008, 11:18 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, I fear Hillary would beat McCain. There's a reason why the media is pushing McCain.

I feel just the opposite. I think Hillary would beat any Republican except McCain.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 20, 2008, 12:20 pm

Sueven PLEASE don't take that bet! I don't care who wins or loses, I don't want to have to look at her face on this board in EVERY Winnow post!