Built-in Vista extractor adding encryption to files.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 11, 2008, 1:57 am

Scroll down.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 11, 2008, 10:19 am

These started over a year ago, didn't they? I could have sworn that we had a few issues up here somewhere...

Found a couple:
All Star Superman

All Star Batman & Robin

noel · Post by **noel** » January 11, 2008, 11:00 am

I'll post in the appropriate thread. Thanks Boog. I'll try to get 2-7 up in the Batman thread shortly.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 12:35 pm

Since this thread may eventually be deleted, I really do have a question for you Noel. What is it about your files that are requiring additional encryption by Vista? Any ideas?

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 12:37 pm

Can you explain that more clearly?

I'm assuming you're extracting the zip files that I've posted. What's different?

I compress the files together on a Mac running OS X 10.5.1. I just tested it on my Vista box, and the only thing I see that's different when uncompressing the files via WinRAR is that there's a Mac OS X folder (which likely contains various tagging info used by OS X) which you can just delete.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 12:41 pm

Since extracting them, I have been repeatedly asked for encryption information to be backed up for those files, but there is no filekey to do so.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 12:43 pm

What are you using to decompress them?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 12:45 pm

It looks like I have mod powers to do anything but delete a topic!

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 12:47 pm

Winnow wrote:It looks like I have mod powers to do anything but delete a topic!

A common problem! It's the same in the VG forum.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 12:47 pm

I can move it over to one of the obsolete forums if needed.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 12:48 pm

I am just extracting them with windows explorer (I think...at work now). The files show up as encrypted files (green file names), and they trigger the OS to ask me if I want to backup the encryption keys. Since this is the first time it ever happened, I am assuming it has something to do with how they are compressed on your Mac, and then opened in Vista.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 12:49 pm

Hmmm... That's weird. I've never had a problem like that moving files zipped on the Mac to any of my PCs. I've also never heard anything from any of my co-workers (though they're all on XP).

I'm honestly not sure why you'd be having that issue.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 12:55 pm

When I get home this afternoon, I will try downloading one of them to my XP machine. The only one I have used so far is Vista. It may be something related to the BitLocker feature?

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 12:57 pm

It could be.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 12:58 pm

I just downloaded your punisher. It unzips fine. One thing it does do is include the __MAXOSX folder that keeps track in OSX of the files so you get an additional folder with five little files. Doesn't hurt anything though.

Files on Dreamhost sure download fast for me. That was the most important feature I looked for when I chose them.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 1:00 pm

I'll shuffle all thread delete requests off to the Lineage II Forum from now on. Don't really get many requests for deletion so it's not a big deal!

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 1:13 pm

Boog, the two things I can think of for you to try is either:

A) Download WinRAR

B) Try right-clicking on the file and taking ownership before you unzip it. I think you should already have ownership, but something to look at/try.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 1:15 pm

Mind holding off for a few hours Winnow? I am off at noon (central), and I will see what happens on my second comp once I get home.

Also, I have WinRar, but it is not set up to run as the default for compressed files (by choice). Having to take ownership of each file seems a bit excessive, but I can test that out this afternoon to see if it helps. The only real problem is that I don't even have the encrypted files anymore, but I keep getting asked to back up their keys.

Sure,

I use Winrar and it seems to work fine. The built in zip for Directory Opus works as well.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 1:36 pm

Boogahz wrote:Also, I have WinRar, but it is not set up to run as the default for compressed files (by choice). Having to take ownership of each file seems a bit excessive, but I can test that out this afternoon to see if it helps. The only real problem is that I don't even have the encrypted files anymore, but I keep getting asked to back up their keys.

I agree that it seems excessive. I'm not sure that's even the issue.

I want to make it clear that I'm not doing anything 'special' to the files. The only thing different is that they're zipped on a Mac. This may seem harsh, but I view this as a problem with your setup as I send out zip files to customers (in some pretty secure and anal-retentive environments) and friends all the time, and you're the first to complain. Sorry I can't tell you definitively why you're experiencing it. I'll test some things out on my Vista box, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this as I really don't like using my Vista box for anything more than a glorified Xbox 360 and NAS.

Edit: Seems like it's potentially a Bitlocker issue. I removed WinRAR from my PC and I was able to:
a) open the zip archive as a folder and open a comic (in this manner I see the _MACOSX file and folder)
b) right-click on the archive and choose 'Extract All...' (in this manner, the folder is extracted to a folder with the same name as the archive and the _MACOSX file/folder are gone)

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 1:40 pm

This is the first time I have had an issue with a file like this, and it is also the first time I have, knowingly, used a file compressed on a Mac. What version of Vista are you using? Does it have the BitLocker service?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 15, 2008, 1:41 pm

it's definitely related to bitlocker and his specific setup.. i'd try right clicking and un-encrypting them.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 1:43 pm

I've got Vista Ultimate. The only reason I'm not using Bitlocker is because there's an imperceptible performance hit when encrypting/decrypting I have no desire to experience.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 1:46 pm

noel wrote:I've got Vista Ultimate. The only reason I'm not using Bitlocker is because there's an imperceptible performance hit when encrypting/decrypting I have no desire to experience.

If it is imperceptible, how could you experience it?

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 1:51 pm

Boogahz wrote:
noel wrote:I've got Vista Ultimate. The only reason I'm not using Bitlocker is because there's an imperceptible performance hit when encrypting/decrypting I have no desire to experience.

If it is imperceptible, how could you experience it?

I'm giving MS the benefit of the doubt that it's imperceptible.

Just for fun though... lets say it takes .0001 seconds to both encrypt and decrypt a file. Lets also say that I 'read' 10000 files over the course of a day. At the end of the day, I've lost 1 second of my life for a level of security I don't really need, and won't *really* help me if the physical security of my PC is compromised by a dedicated and trained hacker.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 5:24 pm

yup, I can open the file in the same manner on both comps, but only Vista recognizes it as encrypted.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 6:06 pm

Boogahz wrote:yup, I can open the file in the same manner on both comps, but only Vista recognizes it as encrypted.

Vista is falsely naming the file encrypted. It's compressed. At no time is it encrypted. I don't use Apple's version of Bitlocker for the same reasons I don't use MS's.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 6:08 pm

noel wrote:
Boogahz wrote:yup, I can open the file in the same manner on both comps, but only Vista recognizes it as encrypted.
Vista is falsely naming the file encrypted. It's compressed. At no time is it encrypted. I don't use Apple's version of Bitlocker for the same reasons I don't use MS's.

Why is it only happening with the files compressed on a Mac? Other compressed files are not triggering it.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 6:13 pm

Ask Vista + Bitlocker. My bet is that it's incorrectly identifying the files as encrypted. I just checked, and basic Mac OS compression doesn't encrypt anything. I'm going to go with: It's a bug.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 6:23 pm

now, if only I could figure out how to get it to stop fucking asking me to back up the damn key without interrupting the prompts when I DO have a key to back up ><

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 15, 2008, 6:25 pm

Boogahz wrote:now, if only I could figure out how to get it to stop fucking asking me to back up the damn key without interrupting the prompts when I DO have a key to back up ><

Administrator Access is Required for this Action. Would you like to Execute this Action as an Adminstrator? YES NO

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 6:29 pm

Boogahz wrote:now, if only I could figure out how to get it to stop fucking asking me to back up the damn key without interrupting the prompts when I DO have a key to back up ><

Post the exact text of the message you're getting or a screenshot. I've been searching and have yet to find any reference to this problem.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 6:41 pm

Aardor wrote:
Boogahz wrote:now, if only I could figure out how to get it to stop fucking asking me to back up the damn key without interrupting the prompts when I DO have a key to back up ><
Administrator Access is Required for this Action. Would you like to Execute this Action as an Adminstrator? YES NO

The problem is that it continues to ask me to back up this key for files I do not have. There is no way I could choose to do this as an administrator if the files do not exist. Now, I can download them again, and see if that option is a available, but what happens to the prompt from the last time I did this?

noel wrote:
Boogahz wrote:now, if only I could figure out how to get it to stop fucking asking me to back up the damn key without interrupting the prompts when I DO have a key to back up ><
Post the exact text of the message you're getting or a screenshot. I've been searching and have yet to find any reference to this problem.

I am rebooting that computer now to see what it said. It runs at startup, and I am "notified" by a tray icon with a text bubble stating that I should back up my encryption key.

The window gives you three options (sorry, can't host an image since my damn dreamhost account is hosed):

Back up now (recommended)
you should back up the certificate and key to removable media. (um, what removable media? and no, this was not part of the message)

Back up later
Windows will remind you the next time you log on.

Never back up
You could lose access to your encrypted files. ( I WOULD use this option, but it is rather vague...would I lose access to ALL encrypted files, or just these comics?)

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 15, 2008, 6:43 pm

got a good reason to use bitlocker? just curious...

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 6:46 pm

Jesus, what a clusterfuck.

Did you get any message when you first had the files? When you tried to open/extract them?

From those messages, it almost seems like it was maybe in the process of encrypting them or something when the files were deleted (I honestly don't know-- these are educated guesses). If that's the case, even re-downloading them won't help you because even though they're the same files, they'll be different to the OS.

Winnow, if you're still reading this, maybe we should move it to Computers/Tech so it gets some additional techie traffic. Just a thought.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 6:51 pm

that move to the tech forum might help. I am tempted to just choose not to back them up, but at the same time I worry that it will basically not back up anything else. I did nothing different with the files I downloaded from noel's post that I have done with files from anyone else's post...except for see the MacOS folder and file. I did click on the folder, but it was empty which prompted my post in the Thor thread: http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 33&t=21370

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 6:54 pm

Boogahz wrote:that move to the tech forum might help. I am tempted to just choose not to back them up, but at the same time I worry that it will basically not back up anything else. I did nothing different with the files I downloaded from noel's post that I have done with files from anyone else's post...except for see the MacOS folder and file. I did click on the folder, but it was empty which prompted my post in the Thor thread: http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 33&t=21370

There are files in that folder, but they're hidden Mac system files for things like tagging, etc. On a PC, they basically do nothing and serve no purpose.

So when you initially downloaded it and opened the file, did you right click to unarchive, or did you open it like a folder and attempt to open the CBR/Z files? At that point, did you just notice the Mac folder, or were you also prompted in some way by Vista?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 15, 2008, 7:01 pm

I think I moved this to the tech forum unless Noel beat me to it.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 15, 2008, 7:06 pm

All this because you use Vista... Go go XP!

(not a helpful reply I know!)

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 7:11 pm

You got it, thanks Winnow.

Actually, it's more than that Aslanna... Vista + Bitlocker. I can come up with a couple of reasons to use Vista, but Bitlocker for a home user is really foolish. As a home user, you get lower performance due to software based encryption/decryption for data you don't really need to be encrypted in the first place.

I say this not to be mean Boog, and I do feel bad that you're having to deal with this (though I don't feel any way at fault), but you really don't need Bitlocker for anything. It's a waste of resources and an added level of complexity. Any Federal investigation where your computer was confiscated and they could definitely break the encryption algorithm, so really not point.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 7:13 pm

I downloaded the file again, and I looked at what I had done. I opened the .zip file, and extracted the Thor v3 005 (Jan 2008).cbr file. You mentioned that the files in the _MACOSX folder were hidden, but when I looked in it again, I noticed what I remembered from before. There is a file there called ._Thor v3 (Jan 2008).cbr. That ._ is the only difference.

In the file properties, the Attributes on the Mac version state: AE, while Keverian's Windows version has the attributes as A.

AE (I believe) is for Archived and Encrypted.

Also, it is not BitLocker, since I disabled that when I did my second install of Vista Ultimate (checked that while looking for anything else I might have which was encrypted).

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 7:23 pm

On my Vista box, none of the files show as encrypted.

I'm working with a file I just compressed. I'm going to DL the Thor file now.

I've never seen this issue or that error message, and I've been running Vista continuously so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while you may no longer be running Bitlocker, it's still enjoying it's time with your PC.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 7:48 pm

Ok,

I have to apologize. I just downloaded the Thor file from my vista box, and I'm getting the same issue as Boogahz. I've never had Bitlocker running, so I don't think that's the issue. I've been moving an archived file back and forth via a USB drive and haven't seen this issue. I'll figure it out and get back to you.

I did recently get a new version of YummyFTP which has some form of encryption. So I'm investigating if that's the cause.

You can choose 'never back up' the encryption keys because the keys that Vista is asking about are specific to the files that you downloaded, not to any of the OS/etc files.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 15, 2008, 7:52 pm

That might also be why it was referring to removable media!

I haven't plugged any of my USB drives in since well before this started.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 15, 2008, 7:52 pm

Strange, Pretty sure i downloaded and read your link to the comic, without any problems. I'll retest when i'm at home, but yeah, it sounds like your ftp client. WinSCP 4ever.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 8:01 pm

I'm testing it with the Batman and Robin files that I uploaded. I did those via manual FTP from my Mac so that should pinpoint YummyFTP as the issue. I will say that I really hate fucking Vista.

You can safely not back up the encryption keys, which should resolve your issue, Boog.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 15, 2008, 8:10 pm

Ok, I have no idea what the issue is. It definitely appears to be specific to Vista and some of the files I've uploaded. I don't know what the deal is though it doesn't seem harmful. I'll try to figure it out. Sorry for the trouble.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 16, 2008, 2:57 am

I have yet to find any other reports of this issue. MS's site is no help at all, but then there are no issues in Vista.

I'm working now to isolate the cause. It doesn't appear to happen if you use WinRAR to extract. It doesn't appear to be just apple compression. I mostly want to get to the bottom of it so I can figure out what the hell is going on in case I ever have a customer have this issue.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 16, 2008, 3:37 am

Ok, it's something that's done to the files if and ONLY if you use Vista's built in file extractor. Vista is adding encryption to the CBR files (for what reason I know not and I've been unable to find it in any tech article or support site online) and then prompting you to backup your keys. If you tell it you don't want to back them up, it doesn't bother you about it again, but all the filenames appear in green and are in fact encrypted. I believe if you were to attempt to share them with anyone else they wouldn't work at all.

This does not happen in XP, and does not happen if you use WinRAR to extract the files (which is incidentally MUCH faster to extract files than the shitty built in extractor in Vista). At this point, I don't see anything about this that would be hurting anyone's PC/filesystem etc. Vista is adding encryption to files during the extraction, plain and simple. If anyone knows why this is or how to prevent this, I'd really appreciate an explanation. I'll be re-linking everything in the comics forum as there is no harm in what's being done.

The keys it's asking you to backup or not backup are encryption keys for the encryption that Vista is adding to the CBR files ONLY when you use the built-in zip extractor on the zipped CBR files. If you right click on the files with the green filenames, you can open the properties for the file. At the bottom where it says 'Attributes', there's an 'Advanced...' button. If you click the 'Advanced...' button, you'll noticed a checkbox which is checked that says 'Encrypt contents to secure data'. Next to it is a 'Details' button you can click that lists the accounts able to access the encryted file. If you're familiar with your computername/account name it will be pretty clear to you that it's Vista adding the encryption. You can remove the encryption by simply unchecking the 'Encrypt contents to secure data' checkbox on the 'Advanced Attributes' dialogue box.

Summary:

* Don't use Vista's extractor as it's a slow as shit.
* Vista's extractor is adding encryption to the files when they're extracting and then putting up some extremely confusing text that make it totally unclear what's happened.
* The encryption is easily removed and the backup of keys is totally unecessary.
* Why it's doing all this, I have no idea.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 16, 2008, 10:04 am

yeah, and it is only doing this on files from your Mac! lol

noel · Post by **noel** » January 16, 2008, 10:19 am

For fun (?) I tested WinZip and it doesn't add the encryption either.

I also verified that it doesn't matter what type of file is compressed on the Mac.

I'm going to go out on a limb at this point and state that this is an issue with all Macs, not just mine. I'm not using any type of additional compression/zip software and I'm not using FileVault (Mac's software that's similar to Bitlocker).