HD Format War is officially over.. Toshiba quits. See page

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 4, 2008, 7:00 pm

*Toshiba Officially abandons HD-DVD - http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 39#p391439*

http://neowin.net/news/main/08/01/04/wa ... -exclusive

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 4, 2008, 7:22 pm

What makes this decision the end of the format war? Why haven't any of the other exclusives ended it yet?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 4, 2008, 7:48 pm

Well studio support is not 70% in favor of Blu-Ray. There are no 2-format shops anymore. WB was the last holdout.

With only Paramount/Dreamworks (Except Spielberg releases) and Universal as HD-DVD exclusives, I think the format war is in the final mile.

I'm still holding out myself until the dust actually settles but This still seems like a pretty hard blow to Toshiba.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 4, 2008, 7:54 pm

Apple blows ass chunks but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that their new computers will soon support Blu-Ray which I'm guessing means they'll have Blu-Ray players in them. That's typical of Apple because HD-DVD is the better PC format so they intentionally hurt their customers in order to be different from the real PC users.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 4, 2008, 7:58 pm

Why is HD-DVD better for computers?

noel · Post by **noel** » January 4, 2008, 9:06 pm

Winnow wrote:That's typical of Apple because HD-DVD is the better PC format so they intentionally hurt their customers in order to be different from the real PC users.

You are not 'their customers'. Apple's way better to 'their customers' than almost any company I can think of. I also don't see what impact Apple's decision has on on PC users either. This just in... Apple computers ARE PCs.

If BluRay becomes the de facto standard for HD video content, PC hardware manufacturers will make the hardware to support it on a PC.

To me your post just sounds like an 360 fanboi with his panties in a bunch.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 4, 2008, 9:42 pm

I want more "budget" blu-ray players before I choose a side.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 4, 2008, 10:53 pm

I think it's fairly meaningless anyway.. Whatever format is decided the 'winner' will probably be made obsolete in 10 years time anyway. Personally I was hoping BR would lose simply because I didn't like some of the things Sony has done. Either way doubt I'll be buying either player. The movies are still stupidly priced. Maybe that's because price of media but we know how that works. Studios keep saying the prices will come down but they never do.

Hopefully the good that will come out of this is that in the future when new formats are being developed the same thing doesn't happen.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 4, 2008, 11:06 pm

Hopefully the good that will come out of this is that in the future when new formats are being developed the same thing doesn't happen.

I kind of doubt it, considering business models, and the fact that it has occurred so many times already (does anyone even know that there's a higher quality audio on DVD format war going on between Sony and someone else?). As long as it's in the interests of the company to own the rights to the media, their are going to be format wars.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 4, 2008, 11:19 pm

As far as the direction of technology goes, players are retarded. The price/performance benefit for using a HD-DVD/BluRay player over standard DVD is retarded. Obviously that price will be coming down, but ask yourself this. Will it come down in price before everything's available online for pay-per download?

Look at what digital distribution has done for the music industry. Any player that comes out in the next few years will be short-lived. The codec and the hardware (not a player)/software to support it is what's important.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 5, 2008, 12:38 am

Only pretentious twats buy apple computers. There, I said it.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 5, 2008, 3:19 am

Only people that have no idea what they're talking about think that all Apple users are pretentious twats.

Bottom line: Much better OS experience, with all the power of BSD UNIX (because that's what it is), and support for most Windows applications including their OS. It actually takes much less skill to use and support a Mac PC than a Windows PC, so I'm not sure how that makes one pretentious.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 5, 2008, 4:45 am

Yeah, it's pretty much over now. I do not own a single HD-DVD or Blu Ray. This was the knock out blow that many people have been waiting for before deciding which player to purchase. If I ever buy or DL in the future, it will only be Blu Ray format.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 5, 2008, 4:47 am

Oh yeah, on a semi related note, Sony is no longer producing rear projection TVs. They are joining the increasing ranks of major manufacturers that have given up production on rear projection sets.

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » January 5, 2008, 8:04 am

Apple computers ARE PCs.

Tell that to Steve Jobs.. He'll disagree.

A PC is not a Mac.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 5, 2008, 11:56 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:This was the knock out blow that many people have been waiting for before deciding which player to purchase.

What people do you represent, or do you have a link to the facts backing the statement up? Or, MAYBE you're just assuming that everyone else shares your opinion!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 5, 2008, 12:12 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:This was the knock out blow that many people have been waiting for before deciding which player to purchase.
What people do you represent, or do you have a link to the facts backing the statement up? Or, MAYBE you're just assuming that everyone else shares your opinion!

It's a logical assumption that there are people that share my opinion and have been waiting for a clear winner before stepping foot into this format war. You are the one that said "EVERYONE", where I used the more ambigious term "many". I know of several RL friends and family members that have been waiting for this. I assume there are more people in the world than just my immediate circle of friends and family that have the same thoughts on the subject.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » January 5, 2008, 1:49 pm

noel wrote: Bottom line: Much better OS experience, with all the power of BSD UNIX (because that's what it is), and support for most Windows applications including their OS. It actually takes much less skill to use and support a Mac PC than a Windows PC, so I'm not sure how that makes one pretentious.

That's not really a bottom line at all since its going to be a subjective opinion, but yeah, way to take a deliberately not serious jibe seriously.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 5, 2008, 2:33 pm

Nick wrote:
noel wrote: Bottom line: Much better OS experience, with all the power of BSD UNIX (because that's what it is), and support for most Windows applications including their OS. It actually takes much less skill to use and support a Mac PC than a Windows PC, so I'm not sure how that makes one pretentious.
That's not really a bottom line at all since its going to be a subjective opinion, but yeah, way to take a deliberately not serious jibe seriously.

I think it proves that once you go Mac, your sense of humor gets whacked.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 5, 2008, 6:21 pm

You're right Gonzoie, a PC is not a Mac. A Mac however, is a PC.

Nick,

From time to time, you say some crazy shit. I love you to death, but there's that crazy shit factor and sometimes I don't know when you're serious or Winnowing™ a thread.

Winnow, please don't take my disparaging your opinion as a lack of recognition of your contributions to this forum. As much as I disagree with you from time to time you're easily one of my favorite posters.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 5, 2008, 9:35 pm

I was waiting to see which of the formats would start with a renting presence in my area (I'm in a rural area about 30 minutes from the nearest Blockbuster) and noone near here does HD movies yet.

Once I do take the plunge however, the PS3 will most likely be the player I choose.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 6, 2008, 12:05 am

It's still not that big a deal. Internal PC, not Mac which will be the cost of a small indy movie, Dual HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players are already down to $299. By the '08 holiday season, external dual players will be cheap enough that peeps will just get one of those.

My PS3 (still in a closet) is too loud to be a Blu-Ray player for home theater. It's quieter than a 360 but I was disappointed at the noise level of the PS3.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » January 6, 2008, 1:23 am

I told you before Winnow, I will be happy to take it. I am going crazy without my 360. I don't know when I am getting it back from Microsoft.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 6, 2008, 4:00 pm

New Line just announced Blu Ray exclusive. It's so over.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 6, 2008, 4:12 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:New Line just announced Blu Ray exclusive. It's so over.

Considering they are owned by Warner Brothers... Are you surprised in the slightest?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 6, 2008, 4:44 pm

Yeah they're both owned by Time Warner. Not particularly surprising.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 6, 2008, 4:44 pm

While I'm not surprised, I think the announcement immediately following WB is big news and warrented for the thread topic.

I talked to the wife and we decided that until they make 5 disc Blu Ray players for around 200$, I will unlikely be picking up the format. I'll likely get a Blu Ray burner for my PC and start DLing within the next 6 months though.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 6, 2008, 8:55 pm

Gotta love the conspiracy theorists..

http://www.thebitbag.com/index.php/2008 ... o-blu-ray/

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 6, 2008, 9:13 pm

No more a conspiracy theory than Paramount being paid to go HD-DVD exclusive a couple months ago. Personally I doubt there is any conspiracy involved and the rumours (both ways) are ground more in fact than fantasy.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 6, 2008, 11:46 pm

I'm curious what Microsoft will do. There are rumors of an Xbox 360 Ultimate with HD-DVD drive being announced as early as next week's CES. That would be a bad move if there isn't much benefit from having an HD-DVD anymore.

Microsoft said early on that it was open to the HD format war and might even use a Blu-Ray drive if that's the format that ended up winning.

With Toshiba/HD-DVD cancelling their press conference and presence at CES (there's a sad article about all the attendees of CES receiving a nice bag sponsored by Toshiba with HD-DVD logo on it) it might be that Micrsoft is reevaluating its next step. The've also announced price cuts on their HD-DVD laptops and notebooks.

I feel bad for the HD-DVD camp. On the other hand, having no interest in buying movies on either format, it would be nice to have a cheap recordable media in the 50GB range to store some of the crap on my hard drives. Having all of your MP3s, your comics, and divx movies, art, etc on one or two optical discs for each category would be nice. It would also be a nice place to store an Acronis backup image for easy OS reinstall (although it would be a lot slower than reinstalling off a local HD or network drive)

Blu-Ray isn't region free like HD-DVD which blows. Japan and the U.S share the same region for Blu-Ray so that's a little consolation.

Blu-Ray regions:

Region A:

- North America
- Central America
- South America
- Korea
- Japan
- South East Asia

Region B:

- Europe
- Middle East
- Africa
- Australia
- New Zealand

Region C:

- Russia
- India
- China
- Rest of World

Europe gets kinda screwed : ) hehe. At least they're not grouped in with the Team Pirate in the C group!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 7, 2008, 12:06 am

I seldom buy DVDs anymore so really either format winning isn't a big deal for me. Now as far as recordable media goes it would be nice if they could get down to a reasonable price because until then I wont even consider them over DVDs. A 25 cent coaster isn't a big deal. A $25 coaster (price of a 25gb Blu-Ray disc) would make me rather upset. I just don't think the price/performance ratio makes it worthwhile at this time. Or really the foreseeable future. And by that I mean within the next 2-3 years.

So for me nothing really changes. Alert me when there is a low cost, high-capacity format here and ready to use.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 7, 2008, 12:10 am

This is a little old but this PDF is a good basic primer from verbatim comparing HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and DVD formats.

One thing that concerns me is the thin layer protecting Blu-Ray data. HD-DVD looks to be the more robust format.

http://www.verbatim.com/optical/pdfs/Bl ... D_FAQs.pdf

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 7, 2008, 12:24 am

There are rumors of an Xbox 360 Ultimate with HD-DVD drive being announced as early as next week's CES. That would be a bad move if there isn't much benefit from having an HD-DVD anymore

.

If they would've done that to begin with, the format war would've been over before it ever truely started. Too little too late now. It's like slapping an 8 track in the latest BMW. PS3 with built in Blu Ray was the major factor in winning this war.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 7, 2008, 12:43 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:
There are rumors of an Xbox 360 Ultimate with HD-DVD drive being announced as early as next week's CES. That would be a bad move if there isn't much benefit from having an HD-DVD anymore
.

If they would've done that to begin with, the format war would've been over before it ever truely started. Too little too late now. It's like slapping an 8 track in the latest BMW. PS3 with built in Blu Ray was the major factor in winning this war.

Perhaps, but 360 going with DL DVD makes pirating copies of games cheap!

There's something really out of whack when blank media for Blu-Ray costs more than Blu-Ray movies.

Edit:

Cheapest Blu-Ray single layer -R media I could find was $11.99 per disk

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817130011

Cheapest Blu-Ray recorder for PC $399.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827106037

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 7, 2008, 1:02 am

Well I just watched the keynote and MS didn't announce any 360 with a built-in HD-DVD drive.

Surprise Surprise.. =)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 7, 2008, 1:06 am

Not really. They had already dismissed the rumor about the "360 Ultimate". But I guess they could announce a non-existant product if it made people feel better.

The Official story: Both the Times and Stuff.tv's hypotheses make sense--except for one small thing. In a rare abstention from its tried-and-true rumor response mantra "Microsoft does not comment on rumors or speculation," the software giant is denying it has any plans for an Xbox 360 with an internal HD-DVD player.

"We have reiterated multiple times since launching the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player that we have no plans to integrate an HD-DVD player in to the Xbox 360," a spokesman told GameSpot. "We feel that offering the drive externally is the best way to give consumers the ultimate choice to create their own high-definition experiences."

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » January 7, 2008, 12:47 pm

I also could give half a shit about the format wars.. Really like others have said, digital downloads are going to be the best way for all parties involved (cheaper for the media companies, so cheaper for us) so buying either of these formats unless you just have money to burn is stupid imo.

The only slight way this matters to me is directly related to video games.. If space on a disk starts to cripple games for the 360, I would like to see them integrate the HD DVD (or blu ray, whatever) player into the console. However, I don't think that storage space for games is going to be an issue until the next generation of consoles, at which point I'm sure that issue will be well addressed.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 7, 2008, 1:25 pm

MS will stick to DL-DVD for the length of this console generation. I'm pretty sure that MS will be forced to have 2 generations in the PS3's lifecycle however I suspect that after that they'll be settling in a pattern where they will be cutting into each other at the mid-point of each other's life-span.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » January 7, 2008, 1:51 pm

Animalor wrote:MS will stick to DL-DVD for the length of this console generation. I'm pretty sure that MS will be forced to have 2 generations in the PS3's lifecycle however I suspect that after that they'll be settling in a pattern where they will be cutting into each other at the mid-point of each other's life-span.

I don't know if I agree with you or not yet, but hopefully you are right.. It would be better for all of us that way imo.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » January 7, 2008, 4:20 pm

noel wrote:As far as the direction of technology goes, players are retarded. The price/performance benefit for using a HD-DVD/BluRay player over standard DVD is retarded. Obviously that price will be coming down, but ask yourself this. Will it come down in price before everything's available online for pay-per download?

Look at what digital distribution has done for the music industry. Any player that comes out in the next few years will be short-lived. The codec and the hardware (not a player)/software to support it is what's important.

I couldn't agree more. Unless you have to see something right away at home instead of the theater, digital dl'ing is the way to go. I've been doing it that way for months now. The draw of deleted scenes doesn't really mean a whole lot to me and if it did, a $15 dvd will suffice.

I don't think people were waiting for who wins the "war", I think most people weren't looking to even bother upgrading. Regular dvd sales crushed both hd formats combined. And by the time people look for a hd movie solution, it will be largely digital distribution. The music comparo is a perfect one to use. Hell, I've already cancelled my netflix even though it was a good service because of digital dl'ing

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 7, 2008, 6:42 pm

I don't see myself going the Digital DL route anytime soon. I like being able to get up and switch players when I feel like it. I have, at times, started a movie at my desk, moved to the living room, and then gone to finish it in bed.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » January 7, 2008, 6:47 pm

But that wouldn't make you consider a high-def alternative than either I take it?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 7, 2008, 6:48 pm

Looking forward to my 35 GB DL for Lord of the Ring: The Fellowship of the Ring in the future!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 8, 2008, 12:22 am

Chidoro wrote:But that wouldn't make you consider a high-def alternative than either I take it?

I'm just waiting on the dust to clear, or a combo player at a "reasonable" price.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 8, 2008, 12:26 am

Aardor wrote:Looking forward to my 35 GB DL for Lord of the Ring: The Fellowship of the Ring in the future!

When it only takes 10 minutes, not only will you not care how big it is, you won't know how big it is. You'll just be finishing the previews by the time enough of it is buffered to start playing.

People in general need to rethink media. In the future, it will be about your rights to watch or listen to media, not something you hold in your hand. When you think about it, why would you want to hold it in your hand anyway? It's a waste of space you could be using for something else.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 8, 2008, 12:32 am

Boogahz wrote:I don't see myself going the Digital DL route anytime soon. I like being able to get up and switch players when I feel like it. I have, at times, started a movie at my desk, moved to the living room, and then gone to finish it in bed.

I do that all the time. I start watching a movie on either my home theater projector (attached to my HTPC) or on my PC and when I'm tired, I go to bed and fire the same movie up on my laptop (could be my HDTV in my bedroom but I prefer he laptop)

It's called a network. You don't need to switch anything. I can access the same movie stored on any one of my hard drives, networked NAS, ect, from anywhere in my home, or download it to my Touch for remote viewing later (although I'd have to convert the movie format to do that because Apple sucks sheep balls and doesn't support divx/xvid)

noel · Post by **noel** » January 8, 2008, 1:30 am

Winnow wrote:
Boogahz wrote:I don't see myself going the Digital DL route anytime soon. I like being able to get up and switch players when I feel like it. I have, at times, started a movie at my desk, moved to the living room, and then gone to finish it in bed.
I do that all the time. I start watching a movie on either my home theater projector (attached to my HTPC) or on my PC and when I'm tired, I go to bed and fire the same movie up on my laptop (could be my HDTV in my bedroom but I prefer he laptop)

It's called a network. You don't need to switch anything. I can access the same movie stored on any one of my hard drives, networked NAS, ect, from anywhere in my home, or download it to my Touch for remote viewing later (although I'd have to convert the movie format to do that because Apple sucks sheep balls and doesn't support divx/xvid)

Exactly.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 8, 2008, 1:42 am

noel wrote:
Winnow wrote:Apple sucks sheep balls
Exactly.

!

noel · Post by **noel** » January 8, 2008, 1:54 am

Aslanna wrote:
noel wrote:
Winnow wrote:Apple sucks sheep balls
Exactly.
!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 8, 2008, 3:49 am

noel wrote:
Aslanna wrote:
noel wrote:
Winnow wrote:Apple sucks sheep balls
Exactly.
!