VV Reports?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » October 22, 2007, 9:04 pm

Yeah so I'm wondering how many folks would be interested in/make use of a VV Consumer Guide section? There is a pretty good cross section relatively objective opinions here and when it comes time to buy new appliances/power tools/camping gear...stuff not specific to other forums, I thought it might be worthwhile to have a forum to seek the advice/experience of others...

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » October 22, 2007, 9:11 pm

I say it's a good idea as long as we can ensure that Winnow will ghey up every thread saying how much Microsoft is the bestest, and Apple/Sony suck ass. Also he must have at least a 4:1 ratio of posts about how they make better products in Arizona as opposed to the rest of the world.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 22, 2007, 9:39 pm

Objective reporter Nick on the scene wrote:Arborealus - VV Reports?

This product, whilst having a charismatic, respectable and amiable sponsor sharing primary adornment in its title, ultimately failed in my expectations as to what I truly consider a thread to be. Without being too harsh, or dare I say it funkcetious, the thread in question, ultimately failed to live up to its own hype, despite exhibiting many of the qualities that any self-respecting VV consumer has come to expect from the brand; such as a title or a message body. Even with the novel and welcome intrusion of a snazzy poll, its lack of comical poll option did to some degree reflect negatively on the inventor.

The message body itself is arguably lacklustre, only a trifling 3 lines long in fact. Consumers are "spared" the delicate niceties of a comma after the initial "Yeah" and a seemingly unstoppable influx of foreign periods littered throughout the metaphorical inner city of the thread leave even the most hardenedly ridiculous buffoon cast adrift on a sea of ...'s.

Nevertheless, it's not all bad on Arborealus' front, and no doubt the thread in question is valid for its niche appeal if nothing else. Yet undeniably, one is left pondering what could have been for a product thread that initially promised such vast potential.

3.2/5

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 22, 2007, 9:54 pm

Yeah...

good job Nick on the new word, funkcetious, i love it!

I know this happens already in the computers/tech forum, and it's gone on in general a few times when people ask... Would a new forum increase that type of communication? I think so but I'm "meh" on the issue.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 22, 2007, 11:10 pm

Would the VV Consumer forum be for things that don't relate to forums already created? I write reviews and guides for various products but put them in the forum where they'd be most appropriate.

graphics/computers/comics/finance/cars/modding (in video forum!) etc

A VV consumer forum for all things that don't fall into existing forum categories might be nice but I wouldn't want forum nazis moving my review posts to a generic consumer forum if I posted them where they've always gone.

If the VV Consumer Forum Mod wanted to hotlink them to the forum to also keep a centralized location, that would work.

Before my PC building thread and mouse threads were lost, I'd add to those thread so peeps had a reference to the previous year's model, etc, sort of like how we like to keep comments about a particular movie all on one thread.

Sabek wrote:I say it's a good idea as long as we can ensure that Winnow will ghey up every thread saying how much Microsoft is the bestest, and Apple/Sony suck ass. Also he must have at least a 4:1 ratio of posts about how they make better products in Arizona as opposed to the rest of the world.

I just went back through your last four pages of posts and haven't seen much in the way of helpful reviews/comment and a lot of sports chatter so I don't know where you get off commenting on my contributions on this board. I may be opinionated, but I do provide a lot of useful info along with those opinions.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » October 23, 2007, 12:29 pm

I think its a good idea!

For example, I bought a new razor the other day and it was total fucking crap. I almost started a thread just to warn the other VV ladies not to bother!

Post by **Sylvus** » October 23, 2007, 1:31 pm

Sounds reasonable, someone come up with a good way to classify different reviews so that they can be easily found, and whoever has the best idea will become moderator.

I'm thinking something along the lines of N categories. Hopefully that number is sufficiently small enough that all reviews would fit under one of 10 or less, but I'm not sure that's possible.

From there, we can decide if they should be grouped by sub-forums, or if all thread titles should have something denoting what they are, in Lalanae's example something along the lines of "[Health/Hygiene] - Bic Lady Schmoove Razor" or whatever. I'd probably lean toward subforums for easy classification. I know they can be a pain for people having to go into forums to see new posts, but I'll put this one toward the bottom and I don't anticipate that people will need to go into it all the time, moreso when they're looking for something specific, or posting about something specific.

I'm just typing as I think right now, so I reserve the right to change my mind as I see fit. Think of it as brainstorming that may never come to fruition.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 23, 2007, 2:01 pm

Appliances

Electronics

Home & garden

Health & fitness

Babies & kids

Travel

miir · Post by **miir** » October 23, 2007, 2:52 pm

I'd suggest there be a heavy moderation policy in the forum... to make sure it's not infected by winnow's contentious bullshit.

I like his 'reviews' of stuff but his differing opinions on other people's 'reviews' can get very tiresome.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 23, 2007, 3:06 pm

I'd volunteer to moderate and keep things in check.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 23, 2007, 6:21 pm

I think the idea of multiple subforums would be ideal. I was probably one of the few people speaking out against it before, but I think it would work out in this case. I agree with Miir about the moderation. We have places for everything else. I could help if needed.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 23, 2007, 6:38 pm

miir wrote:I'd suggest there be a heavy moderation policy in the forum... to make sure it's not infected by winnow's contentious bullshit.

I like his 'reviews' of stuff but his differing opinions on other people's 'reviews' can get very tiresome.

Huh? Link where I rip someone's review of a product. I don't go around flaming product reviews. I think you're mistaking a follow up to one of my reviews after someone else has replied. I know it's not going to be all shits and giggles when I claim something is better than an Apple product for example but I provide plenty of supporting info for my argument.

Sometimes a healthy debate is required as was the case int he Zen vs iPod thread.

If you're going to "heavily mod" a consumer report forum, then don't automatically move a review to that forum. I'd prefer to let people speak their mind both pro and con on the topic.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 23, 2007, 11:42 pm

lol, three words to that; The PS3 thread.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 23, 2007, 11:53 pm

Winnow wrote:I'd prefer to let people speak their mind both pro and con on the topic.

I'd prefer you just shut the fuck up, but I know that's unreasonable to expect other people to act in accordance with my desires...much like your preference of how we should all interact.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 24, 2007, 12:24 am

I think the sentiment being expressed regarding moderation relates to topicality. It's not that people shouldn't be critical of the product, it's that they should talk about the product (and not exclusively divert the conversation into, say, that product as it specifically relates to a particular competing product).

In other words, all the commentary you so helpfully provided on iPod v. Zen would be perfectly appropriate in a "recommend a music player" thread but excessive in a "ipods" thread.

Although I don't have a particular opinion on how much moderation such a forum should receive, I tend toward the less is more approached. We have some minimalist rules/moderation in other forums (like don't post stolen music, and don't come on threads to talk about how much a particular sport sucks) and those work out pretty well. I wouldn't be too thrilled with an activist moderator, especially if it's one of you douchebags.

I think that the forum itself is a perfectly good idea. I was sort of in the 'meh' camp at first, because I view everything on VV via the 'view new posts' link and thus whether or not a particular forum exists is more or less irrelevant to me, but then I realized that the existence of such a forum might prompt people to make relevant posts, and I'd like to read those posts, so I voted yes.

Do we seriously need subforums? Note that I don't give a shit whether there are subforums or not due to my habit of clicking on 'view new posts' and thus making forums irrelevant. But is it really going to be that hard to find what you're looking for? Will the forum be so crowded that you'll need to flip to chapter 5 (feminine hygiene) to find what you're looking for? I sort of doubt it, but again, I don't really give a shit. Fire away!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 24, 2007, 1:09 am

The backbone of this board is fading fast.

PS3 vs 360 vs whatever is one of the most heated topics on the net, but when it comes to the "flame" board, you people spaz out. Not to mention that I, and whoever else thought the PS3 was not automatically a dominant machine, was right, and still right. That heated debate was warranted as you had clueless Sony fans (kyoukan) thinking that Sony would prevail simply because they were Sony and because the PS2 was so great, ignoring the history of consoles which proves that theory wrong...took awhile to play out but that most definitely was not the case and plenty of marketing screwups and bad decisions were pointed out along the way. There are some games that will be good with the PS3 and I'll enjoy them on my PS3...not sure why anyone lost sleep over the mocking of Sony's decision to not include rumble, ignore exclusives, and pretty much present a hated platform to develop for the industry.

Every product isn't fucking battleground. I offer up opinions/reviews on all sorts of things, as do some others (not many), and there are no flamewars over 99% of them. Point out a heated battle over paperless toilet solutions or any topic on the financial forums. Has all hell broken loose in the Comics Forum over DC vs Marvel vs Indies?

Of course there's going to be heated debate on the...you guessed it, products that are debated with passion all over the fucking internet...apple/pc, ps3/360 ...where the hell else are there product flames on this board besides those? I see more fighting in the car forum that I don't participate in than most forums. Did someone cry themselves to sleep over an MX1000 or G7 mouse review? Is a keyboard review giving you sleepless nights?

You're a bunch of fucking babies. (everyone complaining in this thread).

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 24, 2007, 1:14 am

Having a debate on something is one thing. Having a debate on the same shit in every fucking thread is completely different.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to stay within the fucking topic of discussion.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 24, 2007, 2:24 am

I dig the idea so long as, like others have suggested, it's moderated in such a way as to discourage fanboish foolishness.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » October 24, 2007, 7:51 am

Yeah just keep a caveat that all postings must relate specifically to the function/aesthetic of the specific product(s) under review. We could just scarf the format off of Consumer Reports etc. I'd be glad to mod or help mod it. I just tend to trust that those of you I have known for years aren't corporate shills...well, at least when posting here.

Here's Amazon's Root Consumer Products Menu:

Clothing & Accessories
-Apparel & Accessories
-Jewelry & Watches
-Shoes

Office Products

Consumer Electronics
-Audio, TV & Home Theater
-Camera & Photo
-Cell Phones & Service
-Musical Instruments

Pets & Pet Supplies

Health & Beauty
-Beauty
-Health & Personal Care

Home & Garden
-Bedding & Bath
-Furniture & Décor
-Home Improvement
-Kitchen & Dining
-Patio & Garden
-Vacuums, Cleaning, & Storage

Kids & Toys
-Baby
-Toys & Games

Sports & Fitness
-Exercise & Fitness
-Sports & Outdoors

Tools & Automotive
-Automotive
-Industrial & Scientific
-Lawn & Garden Equipment
-Tools & Hardware

Something like that should be inclusive enough eh? And for reference we can always determine where the product lists on amazon in posting and/or requesting input?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 24, 2007, 10:10 am

PS3 vs 360 vs whatever is one of the most heated topics on the net, but when it comes to the "flame" board, you people spaz out. Not to mention that I, and whoever else thought the PS3 was not automatically a dominant machine, was right, and still right. That heated debate was warranted as you had clueless Sony fans (kyoukan) thinking that Sony would prevail simply because they were Sony and because the PS2 was so great, ignoring the history of consoles which proves that theory wrong...took awhile to play out but that most definitely was not the case and plenty of marketing screwups and bad decisions were pointed out along the way. There are some games that will be good with the PS3 and I'll enjoy them on my PS3...not sure why anyone lost sleep over the mocking of Sony's decision to not include rumble, ignore exclusives, and pretty much present a hated platform to develop for the industry.

Winnow, no-one has a problem debating the relative merits of products. No one's denying that you were right. The issue is merely that some people want to talk about the PS3. Your 'debate' style is so overwhelming that it can totally destroy whatever the conversation was about in the first place. The PS3 thread was originally about the PS3 thread, not about PS3 v. 360, and certainly not about the 360. If I remember correctly (I'm not checking) you made several posts in that thread which were almost exclusively about 360 developments and bore no relation whatsoever to the PS3 other than a comment along the lines of "too bad the PS3 doesn't have this feature!"

I don't think that anyone would have a problem if you just started a new PS3 v. 360 thread and used that space to trash the PS3 to your hearts content. People would still read it, I'm sure. In fact, it would probably be much more active than the PS3 thread. But it would also allow people who just want to talk about the PS3-- without prompting a book-length response on why the 360 is superior-- to do so.

It's a hijacking / stifling of conversation thing, not a 'everyone hates Winnow's opinions' thing.

Maybe I'm just talking out my ass though.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 24, 2007, 12:06 pm

You are talking out of your ass, everyone hates winnow's opinions.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 24, 2007, 12:09 pm

Zamtuk wrote:You are talking out of your ass, everyone hates winnow's opinions.

I don't think they hate his opinions. I think they hate his delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery. Maybe even his delivery without fully referencing his own facts during the delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery and delivery.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 24, 2007, 12:49 pm

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 24, 2007, 1:29 pm

Zamtuk wrote:You are talking out of your ass, everyone hates winnow's opinions.

I like my opinions which totally destroys your "everyone" absolutism comment.

Sueven wrote:If I remember correctly (I'm not checking) you made several posts in that thread which were almost exclusively about 360 developments and bore no relation whatsoever to the PS3 other than a comment along the lines of "too bad the PS3 doesn't have this feature!"

Maybe one post out of 100+ didn't relate to the PS3 and I corrected that. I made sure my posts in that thread related to the PS3. It just so happens that there was an overwhelming load of bad PS3 news which I had to pick from to prove a point. Mention of the 360 was in direct relation to the PS3's features and claims others had regarding their usefulness or non usefulness.

Again, I make no apologies and point out that the hottest product topics on the net, PS3/360 and Apple/Microsoft are debated all over the net...and kyoukan's comments are/were as annoying to me as I am to others. I eventually quit posting there after the point was made.

People are confusing their debates with me on other topics, combined with one massive thread on the PS3/360 with the rest of the product reviews I make and others make on this board. That's understandable but inaccurate. Feel free to go back through my posts and note all the reviews I've written and demos I've made on this board and see if there are flame wars anywhere else besides the two major areas I've covered (linux gets thrown in with Apple/Microsoft). It's a bit delusional on the part of those complaining if you take the bulk of everything I've been involved with regarding product reviews and make a blanket statement because of two worldwide hotly debated products.

Slurpee > Icee

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 24, 2007, 1:33 pm

Winnow wrote:Slurpee > Icee

What's the difference?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 24, 2007, 1:36 pm

I don't think winnow is anywhere near out of line as people make it out to be.

He posted shit about the 360 in the PS3 post because it's relevant - compare/contrast of the two which is to be expected. If someone wanted to post about the boundless awesomeness of the PoS3 without anyone doing what winnow did, VV was the wrong place to do it, and you all know that.

Comparing like products is part of the process any mentally functional person would do before they purchase something, and it just looks like winnow does because he posts so much, and not just in those threads - he posts a fuckton nearly every day, so of course when he is posting about something like that it's going to be a bit more overwhelming than when someone else does.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 24, 2007, 4:35 pm

No, unless Winnow can be added to ignore lists.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 24, 2007, 4:50 pm

You need to relax on the ignore lists ffs. Seems like every time I have read a post of yours lately it has been about wanting to add some mod or another to ignore..

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 24, 2007, 5:30 pm

Siji is a consumer retard so shouldn't be able to post in the new forum.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 24, 2007, 5:39 pm

This new forum looks like it should be fun

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 25, 2007, 3:41 pm

He has a point. Just because someone moderates a forum doesn't mean they should be un-ignorable. The administration, sure, but not the moderator of a sub forum.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 25, 2007, 3:45 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:He has a point. Just because someone moderates a forum doesn't mean they should be un-ignorable. The administration, sure, but not the moderator of a sub forum.

Only if you are able to have all of their comments ignored besides in the forum they moderate. By no stretch of anyone's imagination should you be able to ignore the moderator of a forum in the forum they moderate.. what would be the point in having them, then?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 25, 2007, 4:18 pm

To be cool on VV

Post by **Sylvus** » October 25, 2007, 4:27 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:He has a point. Just because someone moderates a forum doesn't mean they should be un-ignorable. The administration, sure, but not the moderator of a sub forum.

If it were a setting, I'd change it. Unfortunately that's just the way the board works. Hopefully they will make that change before the final release of phpbb3 comes out.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 27, 2007, 1:10 am

Funkmasterr wrote:You need to relax on the ignore lists ffs. Seems like every time I have read a post of yours lately it has been about wanting to add some mod or another to ignore..

Go ahead fucktard and search for how many threads I've posted on in the last, let's say 3.. hell, make it 10 months (that 'lately' enough for you?) and count how many times I've used the word 'ignore' in any fashion. I'll even provide a free tech tip since your l33t tech skillz probably couldn't work a search feature.. I find 4 (including this one). Maybe your pussy's still sandy because I mentioned people ignoring you.. in July.

Somewhere a village is missing their idiot. Go home.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · October 30, 2007, 4:58 pm

Arborealus wrote: There is a pretty good cross section relatively objective opinions

ROFL

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » October 30, 2007, 5:32 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Arborealus wrote: There is a pretty good cross section of relatively objective opinions
ROFL

You have found that people here are biased towards one particular brand of lawnmowers, blenders or electric toasters based on criteria other than quality, value etc.?

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 30, 2007, 6:37 pm

I think he's just upset because most people are biased against a particular brand of shithead.