Are you in favor of a Fresh Start in the CE Forum?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 12, 2007, 7:05 pm

Shall we start over? Forget the past and move on? Can we just focus in on the topics at hand and not get so personal and turn every thread into a slew of personal disgust and hatred? Well, here's your chance to vote on it.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 12, 2007, 7:55 pm

I gave it a yes vote and I'm in favor, but I can't imagine it would work particularly well even if a majority prefer it. All it takes to fuck it up is a few people who want to fuck it up. Regardless, I'm happy to give it a shot, even if it's futile.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » July 12, 2007, 8:39 pm

Are you talking about a change in attitudes, or actually wiping the forum out to start over? If you're talking about clearing the forum for a true "fresh start," I vote no. Otherwise it would be a yes. I will abstain until clarified!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 12, 2007, 8:56 pm

Boogahz wrote:Are you talking about a change in attitudes?

Yes

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 13, 2007, 6:11 am

Voted yes

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 13, 2007, 6:27 am

Voted no. Fresh start? Sounds like the slogan for a brand flakes or Special K commercial.

The forum can trend toward being more focused but we don't need to change the default text to pink or do anything else drastic. Christ O'mighty. This is like big government. Soon we'll have committees and outbreak groups discussing the state of sub forums and other stupid shit on VV.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 13, 2007, 6:39 am

I don't think anyone's suggesting changing the text to pink and all having a love in, although your point is valid.

It's pretty obvious that this has all gotten to the point of being so painfully dull and dumb and generic and tedious that possibly, just like a failing relationship with that girl who never really liked you to begin with, a last miserable gasp can be made to achieve some reasonable level of discourse again.

Obviously none of this should be forced on anyone, so it's more a symbolic sort of vote that will maybe show some of the moans that they could return to post in less hysterical manners and that some of us do indeed fancy a change of pace from the almost identical nature of every thread made here. It probably won't make any difference, but sure, there sure have been a lot of people whining about it so why not?

Or, alternatively, you could all go and fuck yourselves!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » July 13, 2007, 7:41 am

Ill try to do something new and insult Nick instead of the usual people

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » July 13, 2007, 8:29 am

I am fully in favor, I keep my opinions out of here for the most part because of the constant faction wars. I imagine I am not the only one that does that. There are way to many trolls here that seem to exist for no other reason but to attack opinions that are not their own with venomous hatred.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » July 13, 2007, 8:47 am

Hah. I'll believe this one when I see it.

The only way we'll get a "Fresh Start" in here is if people relax with promoting their personal convictions, stop attacking people because they don't believe in the same political group and just lighten the fuck up.

I have a hard time seeing people here being less polarized than they already are.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 13, 2007, 2:54 pm

I largely agree with Animalor. We can change how we post in this forum without a concensus from the posters and lurkers who vote in the poll, if we really want to.

But it will last until the first troll that pisses someone off. Its the culture of the board.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 13, 2007, 3:06 pm

Short of lobotomies and complete personality make-overs, this is probably one of the most ineffective ideas ever put forward on this forum. "Hey guys? Yea.. how about we all stop acting like we have for the past 5+ years. Good idea? Sweet, cake and punch are in the back room." If YOU want to give yourself a fresh start, then by all means, you go ahead, and more power to you if you can totally change who you are so you can talk about the news.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » July 13, 2007, 3:08 pm

Xouqoa blames me for this.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 13, 2007, 3:19 pm

I agree that it is the culture of the board, however, someone felt it necessary to throw blame around. An apparent problem has been pointed out and this "fresh start" seemed like a reasonable solution. I think the poll and some comments show there isn't a genuine desire to have a forum without the hatred and vitriol. While a good 22 of us would like to try and move forward, it is obvious it could not suceed with 15+ others waiting to pounce and fuck it all up. Oh well. It was just a thought. Since I'm responsible for all of this, I thought I would try and help.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » July 13, 2007, 4:16 pm

sorry, I hear that "woe is me" victim bullshit in this poll.

see how long the truce lasted?

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » July 13, 2007, 4:17 pm

I voted no. I don't partake in the flaming (though they're fun to watch), so a 'yes' vote from me would be my affirmation that I want to see you people change your behaviors. Truth is, I don't. Not only because your behaviors are entertaining, but also because I don't think it's possible.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities of a 'fresh start.' First, it could be a symbolic move, with vows of decency and promises of propriety from all sides. Of course, those who don't want to participate in the happy love fest will simply toss shit in every direction as always. This will infuriate everyone and said vows and promises will be broken. Or, more likely, the contrast between signal and noise will be amplified, causing the 'fresh starters' to give up. Who really wants to be a part of a system where they are bound by rules (albeit self-imposed) while others are given free reign to do whatever they please?

The other possibility is an actual 'fresh start,' complete with moderation and the power to suspend or outright ban posters. But I doubt that anyone in this crowd can be trusted to moderate fairly. Nor can it be a democratic process since liberals outnumber conservatives by a good margin. I guess the admins could just pick whoever the hell they want, but if the wrong person were made moderator of this forum, it would drive more people away rather than fewer.

I hate to be a naysayer, but the fact that the vote isn't unanimous heralds the inevitable failure of a 'fresh start.'

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 13, 2007, 4:25 pm

Neost wrote:sorry, I hear that "woe is me" victim bullshit in this poll.

see how long the truce lasted?

No truce was ever started, so it hasn't ended.

Woe is me? Victim? I believe I was singled out. That does kind of make me the victim. No, woe is me though. Inflammatory statements like yours are exactly why things won't change. Enough peple can see what is going on here.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 13, 2007, 5:50 pm

OH NOS. Noel's panties are wadded up and the rest of the forum has to change their attitude. lol @ this poll.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 13, 2007, 5:52 pm

Umm, Noel didn't post this.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 13, 2007, 6:02 pm

masteen wrote:Umm, Noel didn't post this.

Actually Noel did start this poll, by starting the thread he did. Big Picture. *wink*

Thess · Post by **Thess** » July 13, 2007, 11:18 pm

Noel didn't start this poll in any way shape or form. He obviously got to you Midnyte, as you show by starting this thread.

For the record, I voted for a fresh start in the current events forum, I used to have a lot of fun posting here!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 14, 2007, 2:07 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Short of lobotomies and complete personality make-overs, this is probably one of the most ineffective ideas ever put forward on this forum. "Hey guys? Yea.. how about we all stop acting like we have for the past 5+ years. Good idea? Sweet, cake and punch are in the back room." If YOU want to give yourself a fresh start, then by all means, you go ahead, and more power to you if you can totally change who you are so you can talk about the news.

I agree 100% with this. Usually, when someone makes a statement like this, its because they know they are getting their ass force fed to them and want the other side to call off the dogs while saving face. The appearance of being peaceful is all a part of the self martyrdom dog and pony show. Once the smoke clears, usually the person who initially cried uncle starts the flaming all over again. This board has, in fact, been through a couple of these over the years (9/11 being the last one). Ultimately, if you want to change the board, you have to change yourself first. That means no more baseless, repetitive, logically fallacious arguments. That also means confining personal attacks to conform to the topic at hand and being able to accept some middle ground, rather than towing the party line all the time. I guarentee you that if you do this and, when the occasion merrits, admit when you make a logical error, people WILL treat you differently.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 14, 2007, 2:22 pm

One need only to look at Midnyte's ravings in this thread to see how sincere he is about this. Thank you, Midnyte, for proving what a cunty little shit you truly are to anyone who might have been duped by your absurd mea culpa.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » July 14, 2007, 2:55 pm

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » July 14, 2007, 3:28 pm

It's not about starting fresh. If you do that you'll wind up exactly where we are now a day after the new start takes place.

Just add an FF CE forum or sub-forum and see how that works out.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 14, 2007, 6:32 pm

Xatrei wrote:One need only to look at Midnyte's ravings in this thread to see how sincere he is about this. Thank you, Midnyte, for proving what a cunty little shit you truly are to anyone who might have been duped by your absurd mea culpa.

Ravings? I was trying to have an intelligent discussion about the topic. Maybe you need to put your hatred aside just a smidge. You look like an ass every time you speak.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 14, 2007, 6:51 pm

Give me a break - you started blathering stupid shit in that thread as soon as FNC was taken to task for what passes as news reporting there. Intelligent conversation, at least from from you, never entered into the equation. Just give up on your transparent trolling attempt to play nice, no one buys your victim posturing.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 14, 2007, 6:54 pm

Xatrei wrote:Give me a break - you started blathering stupid shit in that thread as soon as FNC was taken to task for what passes as news reporting there. Intelligent conversation, at least from from you, never entered into the equation. Just give up on your transparent trolling attempt to play nice, no one buys your victim posturing.

You're a liar. Thankfully the thread is there and people can read it and see for themselves.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 17, 2007, 8:33 pm

You know, it is starting to smell fresher in here..

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 19, 2007, 12:05 am

Would we have better luck if we just assume it's every man for himself here in CE, but take the gloves off and be decent to one another in any other forum? Or we could just make a forum called FUCK YOU! and let that be the place for ripping each other to shreds?

Traz-KOE · Post by **Traz-KOE** » July 19, 2007, 12:51 am

Mak wrote:Or we could just make a forum called FUCK YOU! and let that be the place for ripping each other to shreds?

I thought we had one called VeeshanVault which served that purpose. Was I mistaken? If so I clearly owe some apologies.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 19, 2007, 4:21 am

Traz-KOE wrote:
Mak wrote:Or we could just make a forum called FUCK YOU! and let that be the place for ripping each other to shreds?
I thought we had one called VeeshanVault which served that purpose. Was I mistaken? If so I clearly owe some apologies.

You must not have gotten the memo. VeeshanVault was actually changed to happyfunland where everyone holds hands and sings Village People songs every day and afterwards they have a circle jerk. The plans are to make a Rainbow Bright banner and a My Little Pony themed forum with pink and purple hearts and ribbons and shit like that so people like Noel and Miir and all the other whiny thin-skinned little bitches can feel right at home.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 19, 2007, 11:42 am

Xyun wrote:a My Little Pony themed forum with pink and purple hearts and ribbons

That's hot.

Post by **Sylvus** » July 19, 2007, 11:43 am

No fresh start needed. This all came about with the thread about Midnyte and Funkmasterr ruining the forum. They are both gone now, problem solved.

Please get back to flaming each other, you fucking tossers!

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 19, 2007, 2:26 pm

Keverian FireCry wrote:Just add an FF CE forum or sub-forum and see how that works out.

I hope this was sarcasm because it will never work in this environment. Most topics in CE are discussed because they center around conflict:

- the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan - the West vs fundamentalist Islamics
- the situation in Palestine - the Arabs vs the Jews
- the results and handling of natural disasters like Katrina - man vs nature, citizen vs gov't
- any political topic - party vs party/stance vs stance

We're constantly discussing these conflicts, that in many cases evoke passionate responses because people care about the issues. We have no overriding influence to put constraints on our posts (i.e. such as the will to not divide your family, damage a friendship, damage a workign relationship) above the decency we choose to show and in many cases that decency is thrown aside. We all have our buttons and this forum was created around people pushing each other's buttons even without the powerful responses that these topics bring about on their own. Flame-free/insult free discussion of most of these topics doesn't exist in this type of media because we have no reason to show the opposing view any respect aside from our personal preference or style: it would require strict and constant moderation of a sort I doubt Sylvus or anyone else who posts here would want to invest the time into.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 19, 2007, 3:34 pm

Sylvus wrote:No fresh start needed. This all came about with the thread about Midnyte and Funkmasterr ruining the forum. They are both gone now, problem solved.

Please get back to flaming each other, you fucking tossers!

Gone like the last half dozen times? Any bets on when they return? I predict just in time for September elections.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » July 19, 2007, 8:40 pm

funkmasterr is a stupid faggot and his wife has a disgusting midwest face and flabby pancake midwest ass i hope you die funkmasterrrr

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 19, 2007, 11:08 pm

Frankly, I'd prefer Funk and Midnyte back, unless they insist on being 100% incapable of admitting that they are doing exactly what they accuse everyone else of doing.

I am all for hearing alternative viewpoints, despite what anyone may think, and seeing these guys who hide behind the self victimisation of being in the minority of supporting idiots like Bush is just annoying.

We know you hold alternate views, we know you dislike (arguably non existant) left wing leaning views (i.e anti war, anti Bush - NOT LEFT WING YOU IDIOTS), we know you think you're being ganged up on, but frankly guys, you are being fucking unreasonable and being hypocrites. By all means come and debate me, and others, in issues you feel passionately about, when I fuck up I'll admit it, regardless of whether you do or not. If you did though it would be awesome, it would show you aren't absolute twats (such as idiots who admit to solely going out of their way to be trolls Funkmasterrrr).

Seriously, grow some fucking balls and stop running away and hiding as soon as every prick doesn't just bow down to your bullshit, you're just pussies, and will be remembered as such if you continue such actions.

Wankers.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 22, 2007, 2:19 am

Wow, three whole days! Of course Nick enticing them with promises of a rusty trombone probably greased the wheels.....

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 22, 2007, 3:46 pm

Was it 3 days? Seems too quick, like a weekend.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 29, 2007, 5:35 am

Nick wrote:Frankly, I'd prefer Funk and Midnyte back, unless they insist on being 100% incapable of admitting that they are doing exactly what they accuse everyone else of doing.

I am all for hearing alternative viewpoints, despite what anyone may think, and seeing these guys who hide behind the self victimisation of being in the minority of supporting idiots like Bush is just annoying.

We know you hold alternate views, we know you dislike (arguably non existant) left wing leaning views (i.e anti war, anti Bush - NOT LEFT WING YOU IDIOTS), we know you think you're being ganged up on, but frankly guys, you are being fucking unreasonable and being hypocrites. By all means come and debate me, and others, in issues you feel passionately about, when I fuck up I'll admit it, regardless of whether you do or not. If you did though it would be awesome, it would show you aren't absolute twats (such as idiots who admit to solely going out of their way to be trolls Funkmasterrrr).

Seriously, grow some fucking balls and stop running away and hiding as soon as every prick doesn't just bow down to your bullshit, you're just pussies, and will be remembered as such if you continue such actions.

Wankers.

I know I said I was done posting here, so before anyone gets bent out of shape about me posting again, you can rest assure it's a one time thing (at least that's what I am currently planning on, as it has been so kindly pointed out, I have quit posting before.) I don't want to end my years of posting here with people thinking that I am doing what nick posted above. What it all really boils down to with me is that I'm tired of the flame shit, just plain old sick and tired of it. I want to have conversations with people like I do with my friends, where everything doesn't have to turn into an insult because you don't agree, and I realize that VV is not that and never will be, so why continue? Before you say it - I know why you (nick, etc) would most like to have me around - to have a target (I mean face it, as much as you might not be able to stand me or midnyte, it's gonna get a tad boring here with no one to focus your frustration on **No, that was not sarcasm**)

Anyhow, I'll end with a PM I sent to neziroth (originally about his sunburn thread) that pretty much sums it up for me:

You shouldn't have even bothered. I would actually post this in the thread instead of writing to you if I wasn't so intensely disgusted and tired of at least half of the normal posters, but here is what I think:

Yeah it's VV and your supposed to flame and blah blah blah. However, after 7 years of the same discussions, insults, bitches, gripes, feuds, trolling, etc with the same people, a good number of the people here (I could be wrong) are just plain getting tired of it. I disagree with what lala said about message boards being boring without constant flames, I think there are enough interesting, intelligent and informed people here to keep VV very interesting without the constant bickering, but we both know that will never happen.

Like I said, I really think a lot of people are getting to the point that they just want to have conversation on VV, but you just can't do that when any thread is turned into a shitfest within 3-5 posts. Of course the flame every now and then is fun, but VV has taken the flame-fest thing, and beat the dead horse to the point that it's just a pool of fucking blood and a couple of hooves.

I guess my overall message would be this: If you want to have a decent conversation about something, or are looking for info on anything from sunburns to computers, look somewhere other than VV, because it's extremely rare someone decides to carry on a decent conversation or be helpful here anymore. And when they do you have to pay the price of being berated while getting said info.

If you think I'm an idiot and this is off base, great. If you think I'm right and want to paste my PM into the thread and turn this into a 15 page thread about what a whiney moron I am, that might be fun too.

Anyway, hope your sunburn passes without too much agony. Like others in the thread have said I just go with aloe. Don't be shy with the shit either, I would suggest applying it 4-6 times a day until it's gone. Not only will that help the burn but you have a chance of saving yourself from peeling quite as much as you will otherwise. I would also suggest cranking the AC up and sleeping on top of the covers... anything to cool down.

Later,
funk

So I'm not running like a bitch or whatever (at least not in my mind). Anyway, I look forward to reading the 30 pages this turns into because of my post, and from the bottom of my heart I hope you have a blast calling me a pussy, whiner, etc. Have a great remainder of your weekend, folks!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 29, 2007, 12:36 pm

Whatever drama queen. Nice martyr-post. Lolloweredhondageneration

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » July 30, 2007, 11:44 am

I'd say if you're serious about the fresh start thing, be willing to take a few hits and ignore them, and just wait it out.

For me, a lot changed on this board once I outgrew the arrogance of my "EQ years", and started really examining what people had to say. This board is lucky to have quite a few informed and analytical posters who not only post their own thoughts, but spend time trying to understand those with differing views.

A fresh start doesn't require a poll or anyone else's consent. Start it yourself, stick around until people recognize a change in behavior, and see what happens.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 30, 2007, 3:47 pm

Funk hates turtles.