What needs to happen for MMORPGs to be interesting again?

[Winnow]

I'm writing this after following a post about SOE taking over Vanguard. It was starting to head towards a discussion about what would make an interesting MMORPG so it seems like a good topic to start.

For my part, I feel that a centralized MMORPG "portal" is essential.

I think SOE is sort of getting it right with their all access pass. It's a step in the right direction.

Here's what I'd like to see happen.

Start out with a Second Life type environment as the main portal. It doesn't have to emulate RL, it can be a bizarro type world. (a cool idea would be to let people walk around in this central world in the form of any one of their characters from a multitude of MMORPGs accessible from the main portal) This main environment would serve no purpose except for a gathering place for friends. I'm not envisioning something like the PS3's Home but something more like a full fledged SL world. Make the subscription to this portal something cheap like $5.00/month as it's main goal would be to keep members sticking around to chat with their friends whether they're playing a game actively or not.

From this portal world, allow the players to enter a host of other MMORPGs, fantasy, sci fi, western, furryland, whatever. Make the subs for each additional game $10.00 so if a player is only involved with one game, they're paying the standard 15/month. Each additional game could be 10/month or perhaps 8/6/4 discounted as more or added. So two games would be 23/month, 3 for 29/month 4 for $33/month. I don't know exactly what the pricing scheme would be but it's main goal would be to keep people subscribed at least at the lowest level and not kill people's pocketbooks to try additional MMORPGs. A company would probably much rather have a player subbed to multiple games for a discoutn than lost a full 15/month sub when that person tried another game. 30/month ($360/year) for two games is kinda hard to justify for many people when monthly bill paying time comes around.

SOE almost has this but they are missing the "SL" mutual hang out spot that doubles as a deluxe chat app to keep online friends hooked up. Of course, making text/voice chat extremely easy between all games would be key as well with which SOE is also working on.

NCSoft needs to do something like this as well.

Even better, which will never happen, would be an independent portal be developed that any publisher could choose to add their game to...that would be a problem with multigame discounts though...this is sort of happening with Microsoft's Anywhere Live portal being developed for Vista. MS is trying to be that central online gathering location but they don't have the central "SL" hub, plus publishers like Epic don't like the idea of having people that play their game have to be subscribed to Anywhere Live...So I can only see this working for individual mega game publishers.

Anyways, I could have seen myself playing a game like CoV more if I had a centralized chat/irc type window on the side of my main game window so if playing Guild Wars and something was going on over in CoV, it would be an easy switch over.

Beyond that, something seems to be missing with the latest MMORPGs. A breakthrough in game play is needed to recapture the interest of those that have played MMORPGs for years. A Vanguard or LOTR MMORPG isn't going to keep anyone's attention for long that's familiar with gathering pelts or rat skulls for XP. I do like to power level as well as socialize but man, the the latest game boring for that. Tabula Rasa isn't any different save for there being a laser gun in place of a bow and arrow.

WoW got lucky with their mega MMORPG. I'm not sure a WoW 2 would fare so well the same as EQ2 failed partially because of burnout, and partially because of friends splitting up to try several other offerings without a main hub to stay connected. A lot of the WoW peeps are first time MMORPGers that will mostly likely have the original EQer reaction to other MMORPGs after WoW burnout.

My view on what makes things work is based around a centralized hub that keeps people connected while trying out new MMORPGS, the same as VV does. What would be the dream MMORPG for you and how would it keep your interest for years instead of months which is what the game publishers want?

[Funkmasterr]

I don't think that anything any company could possibly do would get me interested in mmorpg's again. Everquest was the pioneer, and everything after that just hasn't been the same. I'll stick to my console shooters, etc

[Avestan]

I would love to see a "platform" MMORPG.

License out the core technology and allow individuals to develop and figure out their own monetization engines.

I am not sure this would be a huge financial success, but I would equate it to a Firefox or Linux type movement and a return to the days of MUDS.

Problem #1 is cost of running these things, but I would love to see communities of 400-600 play their own versions of a core game for free. That many people could be supported by an active community and maybe fees tied to item transfer. *shrug*

VV MMORPG would rock.

[Chidoro]

For me the only thing I can think of is having more personal time to play a mmo than the ~3 hours per week I have currently. It's impossible to get into a game because of this restriction and I doubt there's any way a dev can make you apart of a community game if you can't actually be in the community more than a day or two a week

[Bubba Grizz]

Something like out of Johnny Pneumonic would be cool. More vr type gear.

What I would love to see is a MMO based on the Mech Warrior world. That I think would be an incredible game. You could have it all. Instanced encounters for certain missions. Metric Shit Tons of PvP. Factions. Basically everything you need. No levels involved at all. Just your own ability to play. Skill sets allow for experise in areas like radar or mechanics as well as bonus's to hit locations and such. Soooooo much that could be done.

[Fash]

I don't think I'll ever again be able to keep interest in a level-centric MMO. It just brings you right back to all the others, grinding up an imaginary ladder that means nothing. They used to be a pretty good time waster, but now they're just a waste of money.

[Zamtuk]

Honestly, I thought Planetside had it right (in beta). That was the exact kind of game that I could log onto for hours and play it pretty regularly. If they wouldn't have utterly fucked the launch up past recognition, they would probably have the income to update it regularly enough to keep my attention. Though I doubt I would still be playing it now, it being 4 years older, it's a franchise that I think could be pretty renewable and sequels would be fairly successful.

While levels ultimately helped, they really weren't necessary to be good or to have a lot of fun. So I would say that it was a really good grinding experience. And they kept the levels simple to 20, which is always nice. The hardcore players could have played on getting CEP which would have taking a lot longer and still given some meaning to it.

[Jice Virago]

Three things need to happen:

1) New Setting- This is most critical. People are burned out on the fantasy setting. Cyberpunk would be idea, but anything post appocolyptic or sci fi in nature would be amazingly refreshing. It would let people escape the holy trinity class situation and allow for completely new approaches to combat systems to be implemented.

2) No more Rangs- I don't care how they do it, but the first MMO to somehow completely eliminate the Ebay/Gold Farmer element will be the next one I try. A completely barter based economy is where I would start.

3) End the reign of the Cat Asses- Wow tapped into huge numbers by being casual friendly, but even they bowed down and wasted tons of manhours on contend 99% of the playerbase will never see, along with stupidly inane grinds (mount training cash anyhow?) that do nothing to enhance the enjoyment of the game. The next big game is the one that focuses entirely on small group content, with abolutely no raids above a dozen people. This will be the kind of game where you can hop on for a couple hours, run a dungeon/mission or farm some tradeskill mats, and feel a sense of achievement. Games that reward basement dwelling people who play 12 hours a day (and I was one myself at one point) need to be a thing of the past. Those people got their game, and we all know how well Vanguard turned out.

[Funkmasterr]

Three things need to happen:

1) New Setting- This is most critical. People are burned out on the fantasy setting. Cyberpunk would be idea, but anything post appocolyptic or sci fi in nature would be amazingly refreshing. It would let people escape the holy trinity class situation and allow for completely new approaches to combat systems to be implemented.

2) No more Rangs- I don't care how they do it, but the first MMO to somehow completely eliminate the Ebay/Gold Farmer element will be the next one I try. A completely barter based economy is where I would start.

3) End the reign of the Cat Asses- Wow tapped into huge numbers by being casual friendly, but even they bowed down and wasted tons of manhours on contend 99% of the playerbase will never see, along with stupidly inane grinds (mount training cash anyhow?) that do nothing to enhance the enjoyment of the game. The next big game is the one that focuses entirely on small group content, with abolutely no raids above a dozen people. This will be the kind of game where you can hop on for a couple hours, run a dungeon/mission or farm some tradeskill mats, and feel a sense of achievement. Games that reward basement dwelling people who play 12 hours a day (and I was one myself at one point) need to be a thing of the past. Those people got their game, and we all know how well Vanguard turned out.

Some pretty good ideas, I might actually give it a shot if someone could pull that off.

[masteen]

Something like out of Johnny Pneumonic would be cool. More vr type gear.

Mnemonic. He wasn't a carrier of pneumonia.

[Boogahz]

Something like out of Johnny Pneumonic would be cool. More vr type gear.

Mnemonic. He wasn't a carrier of pneumonia.

How can you be so sure?

[masteen]

Something like out of Johnny Pneumonic would be cool. More vr type gear.

Mnemonic. He wasn't a carrier of pneumonia.

How can you be so sure?

Because of Gibson's love of character detail. Even in a short story, I'm positive there would have been at least 3 cumulative pages of descriptions of his wracking cough

[pyrella]

He was feeling pretty ill with the data over flow. And Johnny mnemonic was only about 3 pages long actually - writers of the movie extrapolated *A LOT*.

http://www.veeshanvault.org/shared/book ... emonic.rar


And to answer the original post: Nudity - and lots of it.

Give me a game where our country's shame will ensure that very few children can pollute it.

[Winnow]

And to answer the original post: Nudity - and lots of it.

Give me a game where our country's shame will ensure that very few children can pollute it.

This coming from someone who's played SL? I don't think you have the right set of landmarks! Lali will set you up!

Cry2Engine-SL would be nice.

[Leonaerd]

Something entirely unforgiving -- that one would be required to have -skill- (whether by use of twitch as in shooters, or raids such as OMM, or economics as in EQ trades) to advance, where the rewards of said advancement are worth the time invested to the skilled player, such as the ability to get new guns (in the case of twitch), get better gear (in the case of OMM), or have the ability to invest in a shop (as in economics).

These are all simply gameplay examples that should be woven together with a myriad of other examples, combined with absolutely comprehensive career statistics and viewable progression comparison between other adventurers. What's most important is that it takes skill to advance, assuming advancing is the goal of any MMO.

I'd also like an MMO where advancing isn't the goal. No rat race. Even if you win EQ you're still a rat.

I guess a Planetside / EQ / Oblivion hybrid would satisfy most of my concerns, with a Smash Brothers Melee meets Battlefield 2 esque style of career history statistics.

But even all of that would not be anything really new, but simply the same stuff done better. I guess I demand more of the people I play with than of the company that creates the game in order for me to have fun. And if I make that kind of demand, I might as well just play shooters. Oh wait, I already do. Fuck MMOs!

[masteen]

He was feeling pretty ill with the data over flow. And Johnny mnemonic was only about 3 pages long actually - writers of the movie extrapolated *A LOT*.

I resent the insinuation that I actually watched that piece of shit movie.

[miir]

As one of the few people here who still primarily plays (and enjoys) MMOGs, the only trend I would like to see is developers stop trying to design their MMOGs for mass market appeal.

[Fash]

Honestly, I thought Planetside had it right (in beta). That was the exact kind of game that I could log onto for hours and play it pretty regularly. ...
While levels ultimately helped, they really weren't necessary to be good or to have a lot of fun. ...

I just started over in Planetside a couple days ago and I'm happy with it. It's just what I'm looking for, something to log into for random periods of time and occupy myself running around and shooting at things. Not saying I won't get bored and cancel within a month or two though.

I have lost all desire to join a guild within a game. I just want to play the game. I realize Planetside has outfits (guilds) but they're completely optional. You can join the biggest fight all by yourself, or in a pick up squad, or whatever.

So I ask you... are guilds necessary?

[Nali]

I would love to see, like previously mentioned, a completely new setting for an MMO. I enjoy the fantasy setting just as much as anyone else, but it needs to rest for a bit. I would love to see an MMO based on our world. What I mean by this is- concepts such as Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising. I like the idea that it was derived from mythology.

[Boogahz]

Honestly, I thought Planetside had it right (in beta). That was the exact kind of game that I could log onto for hours and play it pretty regularly. ...
While levels ultimately helped, they really weren't necessary to be good or to have a lot of fun. ...

I just started over in Planetside a couple days ago and I'm happy with it. It's just what I'm looking for, something to log into for random periods of time and occupy myself running around and shooting at things. Not saying I won't get bored and cancel within a month or two though.

I have lost all desire to join a guild within a game. I just want to play the game. I realize Planetside has outfits (guilds) but they're completely optional. You can join the biggest fight all by yourself, or in a pick up squad, or whatever.

So I ask you... are guilds necessary?

I just started my Station Access account back up last week, and while I have mainly been playing EQ2, Planetside was the first game I installed and played. I have been in and out of outfits in that game many times, and they have their place. It is nice being able to actually get real attacks going on that do not just turn into zerg rushes. At the same time, it is nice not being in one and doing your own thing. That's one thing I like about the game. I am able to log in and just screw around for an hour or so and enjoy myself. The Cert system does not feel anywhere near as much as a grind fest as most MMOs with the levels.

[Zamtuk]

Heh, I remember the debate that being in an outfit and rolling solo caused.

[Xanupox]

PORNO MMO.

You get to raid top porn stars like Jenna Jameson and the fat loot is a cock in her ass.

[Xatrei]

Here is a good start: Confirmation that the World of Darkness MMO is actually in development.

[Mr Bacon]

1) think up new ideas, don't reinvent the wheel
2) new setting, as previously mentioned by jice
3) complete your game

Ever since every single gaming company has turned to MMO's, it seems each game is missing one or more of these requirements.

Why is easy to answer: Verant knew they had something groundbreaking when they were making their game. (Not bringing up UO - never played it, never will). After the first batch of MMO's came out - AO, AC, EQ, DAoC, etc, it became nothing more than a pure revenue source (no innovations or overall astonishing features).

So here we are today - MMO's have become the scum of PC gaming. Every company is making one, every one of them is overhyped, and generally, every one of them sucks ass.

Stick to the three rules, and you should be fine.

P.S. Ding 2000

[miir]

After the first batch of MMO's came out - AO, AC, EQ, DAoC, etc, it became nothing more than a pure revenue source (no innovations or overall astonishing features).

The crafting in EQ2 and Vanguard were definate innovations over the drag, drop and click crafting of those games.
The skill/spell systems in MMOGs have been evolving continuously since EQ.. Vanguard and LOTRO have exponentially more advanced combat systems than all of the games you mentioned.

I could go on for literally hours listing the changes and improvements made in the genre since I first started playing... but if you're looking for something that redefined the genre, you're not gonna find it. It's been more of an gradual evolution..

If you were to log on to Veeshan how it was the first month of release, then log in to Vanguard in the state it's in now....
You'd have to be both blind and retarded to say that the genre hasn't had any innovations or semi-astonishing features added.

The two games simply do not compare.

It would be like saying that the FPS genre hasn't changed in 7 years.
I was heavily into Tribes before EQ sucked me in. If someone was to try and tell me that the genre hasn't changed at all and that games like Shadowrun has nothing groundbreaking over Tribes, I'll call them a fucking retard as well.