Bidness as usual...

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Arborealus
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Bidness as usual...

Post by Arborealus »

Surely we have had enough blatant nepotism and we can just freaking fire W now out of hand?
NEW ORLEANS - The Army Corps of Engineers, rushing to meet President Bush's promise to protect New Orleans by the start of the 2006 hurricane season, installed defective flood-control pumps last year despite warnings from its own expert that the equipment would fail during a storm, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The 2006 hurricane season turned out to be mild, and the new pumps were never pressed into action. But the Corps and the politically connected manufacturer of the equipment are still struggling to get the 34 heavy-duty pumps working properly.

The pumps are now being pulled out and overhauled because of excessive vibration, Corps officials said. Other problems have included overheated engines, broken hoses and blown gaskets, according to the documents obtained by the AP.
it continues...
The drainage-canal pumps were custom-designed and built under a $26.6 million contract awarded after competitive bidding to Moving Water Industries Corp. of Deerfield Beach, Fla. It was founded in 1926 and supplies flood-control and irrigation pumps all over the world.

MWI is owned by J. David Eller and his sons. Eller was once a business partner of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush in a venture called Bush-El that marketed MWI pumps. And Eller has donated about $128,000 to politicians, the vast majority of it to the Republican Party, since 1996, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_ ... y_pumps_10" target="_self">AP Article Here</a>

So the administration sways the purchase towards a croney and the pumps aren't even close the the necessary performance specifications. And the specs were lowered somewhere during the testing phase. And holy shit I'm getting even crankier....W cares...about lining the pockets of himself and his political croneys...

surprise,
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Post by Morgrym »

Probably the lowest bidder and small business owner. It was an impossible deadline anyway, why people don't just move the hell away from there is beyond me. Had Katrina been a direct hit, we would not have to worry about it and there would be one rather large lake in southern Lousyana. One of these days, that will happen and everyone will start pointing fingers at someone that has no control over nature to begin with.
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Post by Al »

Morgrym wrote:and there would be one rather large lake in southern Lousyana. One of these days, that will happen and everyone will start pointing fingers at someone that has no control over nature to begin with.
It did happen, but then they drained the lake... again. I will never understand why people complain when water ruins their neighborhood that happens to be in a coastal area several feet below sea level.
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Post by Boogahz »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17597203/


May be the same story, but wanted to include where the quote was from:
“Let me give you the scenario: You have four months to build something that nobody has ever built before, and if you don’t, the city floods and the Corps, which already has a black eye, could basically be dissolved. How many people would put up with a second flooding?” said Randy Persica, the Corps’ resident engineer for New Orleans’ three major drainage canals.
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Post by Aslanna »

You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
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Post by Bubba Grizz »

Aslanna wrote:You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
Ultimately, yeah George is the one responsible because he is at the top but do you seriously think that he even knows about what is going on down there? This was delegated off a long time ago to people he doesn't even really know. Outside of a few PR shoots I doubt he'd even go back down there for anything if he didn't have to. It's easy to blame him but the fault lies with the people overseeing the actual work. IMHO.
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Post by Winnow »

Your tune would be different if a mysterious mold was found on cheese in Wisconsin, ruining the state's economy!

My vote would be to make New Orleans a lake so not much sympathy from me or Floridians for the most part when the usual 10 or so hurricanes wipe them out and they start crying like they weren't expecting it.

Earthquakes I can understand...not predictable...tornadoes, not predictable, hurricanes, you know are coming and you know you live on flat land that's one inch above sea water if you're lucky. California freaks build earthquake resistant buildings. I don't want to see anything but single story domed, wind resistant buildings located at least 10 miles from the shoreline in Florida and in any state along the Gulf Coast. If you're on land BELOW SEA LEVEL, move.
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Post by Arborealus »

Boogahz wrote:
“Let me give you the scenario: You have four months to build something that nobody has ever built before
Hrmmmmm the Netherlands has pumps with those specifications...Lots and lots of them...and they have continuously offered assistance and expertise...
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Post by Sylvus »

Bubba Grizz wrote:
Aslanna wrote:You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
Ultimately, yeah George is the one responsible because he is at the top but do you seriously think that he even knows about what is going on down there? This was delegated off a long time ago to people he doesn't even really know. Outside of a few PR shoots I doubt he'd even go back down there for anything if he didn't have to. It's easy to blame him but the fault lies with the people overseeing the actual work. IMHO.
So is it that the buck doesn't even make it to him, so it can't stop there?
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Post by Arborealus »

Sylvus wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote:
Aslanna wrote:You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
Ultimately, yeah George is the one responsible because he is at the top but do you seriously think that he even knows about what is going on down there? This was delegated off a long time ago to people he doesn't even really know. Outside of a few PR shoots I doubt he'd even go back down there for anything if he didn't have to. It's easy to blame him but the fault lies with the people overseeing the actual work. IMHO.
So is it that the buck doesn't even make it to him, so it can't stop there?
Hey man he was busy doing stuff (see Gonzales headlines)! He can't give personal attention to stuff! Even when the stuff he didn't give any attention to earlier exacerbated the stuff in question and he promised to keep on top of stuff!
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Post by Bubba Grizz »

Sylvus wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote:
Aslanna wrote:You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
Ultimately, yeah George is the one responsible because he is at the top but do you seriously think that he even knows about what is going on down there? This was delegated off a long time ago to people he doesn't even really know. Outside of a few PR shoots I doubt he'd even go back down there for anything if he didn't have to. It's easy to blame him but the fault lies with the people overseeing the actual work. IMHO.
So is it that the buck doesn't even make it to him, so it can't stop there?
No no, I'm just saying that it is easy to blame him for something. All in all he is responsible. I'm not trying make excuses for him but the blame on him is merely superficial when the people who should get their shit together are the ones in the middle.
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Post by Arborealus »

Bubba Grizz wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote:
Aslanna wrote:You're doing a heck of a job Georgie.
Ultimately, yeah George is the one responsible because he is at the top but do you seriously think that he even knows about what is going on down there? This was delegated off a long time ago to people he doesn't even really know. Outside of a few PR shoots I doubt he'd even go back down there for anything if he didn't have to. It's easy to blame him but the fault lies with the people overseeing the actual work. IMHO.
So is it that the buck doesn't even make it to him, so it can't stop there?
No no, I'm just saying that it is easy to blame him for something. All in all he is responsible. I'm not trying make excuses for him but the blame on him is merely superficial when the people who should get their shit together are the ones in the middle.
It is a lot easier when you are a competent leader who appoints competent underlings to manage things...Or you can appoint based exclusively on who's cock needs sucked for political favours...And they award contracts based on who's cock needs sucked...And so on and so on...The Bush Administration is just an huge cockfest and W is the snowball king...which is ironic considering they were all up in arms because of one BJ in the previous administration...
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

The real blame lies with God. If he had not placed those people into New Orleans and ROOTED them in place so they could not move the fuck out when they saw the 8 billion reports of a massive hurricane coming DIRECTLY at them, then there would be no issue. Oh wait.

It is real fucking easy to place blame on Bush for not pumping billions into trying to keep a city above water that would not even BE a city above water if we were not artificially keeping it that way. I mean...did GWB pass a law stating those people have to remain there and are not allowed to leave? No? Then just MAYBE those people can take responsibility for being there and stop fucking bitching about someone that doesn't control the weather being to blame.

You don't see Kansas residents putting up mile high walls to block tornados and then blaming Bush for failing them when their town gets wiped out. So New Orleans residents (and the taxpayers...thanks) can take the ass raping from nature and shut the fuck up...or they can move.
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Post by Kylere »

It was the fault of the conservative christians for their constant hypocrisies and ignorance. A god called Katrina down on New Orleans so they would know to pray to him more often and kill more gay people.

Don't give me shit, it makes as much sense as the 700 Club claiming it and 911 were caused by gay people.
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Post by Sylvus »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:It is real fucking easy to place blame on Bush for not pumping billions into trying to keep a city above water that would not even BE a city above water if we were not artificially keeping it that way. I mean...did GWB pass a law stating those people have to remain there and are not allowed to leave? No? Then just MAYBE those people can take responsibility for being there and stop fucking bitching about someone that doesn't control the weather being to blame.

You don't see Kansas residents putting up mile high walls to block tornados and then blaming Bush for failing them when their town gets wiped out. So New Orleans residents (and the taxpayers...thanks) can take the ass raping from nature and shut the fuck up...or they can move.
But this discussion isn't about whether it's a good idea to live in a place that has a much higher chance of a natural disaster than any other place. It's about a place where a number of people have lived for hundreds of years that was recently struck by a natural disaster. Furthermore, it's a discussion about how the leader of those people reacts to calamities that befall those people, and how he delivers on promises of help that he has made. Not to mention that he did pump billions into the city, around 6 Billion if memory serves, and it appears that it didn't do what he promised it would.

I am not going to disagree with the statement that it is not a good idea to live below sea level in hurricane alley. We're in full agreement there.

Now, since we have that point settled, let's move on to the linked article.
NEW ORLEANS - The Army Corps of Engineers, rushing to meet President Bush's promise to protect New Orleans by the start of the 2006 hurricane season, installed defective flood-control pumps last year despite warnings from its own expert that the equipment would fail during a storm, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
Did he deliver on that promise? No, apparently not. Is it his fault? That's a little grayer area.

At the very least, it reinforces the fact that Bush has a poor track record of choosing his underlings. "Brownie" is the first one that comes to mind, but wasn't there an FBI or CIA director, as well as a couple other high-profile members of his cabinet or appointed to branches of the government that have stepped down or been fired due to scandals or incompetence? Then you've got whoever it was that is in charge of the Army Corps of Engineers. I'm going off the top of my head here, forgive me for not spending a lot of time researching.

More nefariously, and less undeniably factual, would be the idea that his administration chose a "cronie" company to help line the pockets of his friends or family, with utter disregard as to their capabilities to handle something of that magnitude. Something that the administration has also been criticized about regarding Halliburton in Iraq and other companies in other situations. To be fair, it's hard to judge whether the Halliburton deal is strictly a "cronie" deal when there aren't too many companies in the world that are set up to handle what they've been tasked to do, but it merits mentioning when the same types of accusations repeatedly follow an administration around.

George W. Bush is a bad president. I cannot say if John Kerry or Al Gore would have been a better one, no one can, but I can say that I haven't ever felt that any other person who has been president has been worse. Nearly every day something comes out that makes him or his administration look worse than the day before, and I cannot think of 10 things that they have done that have made them look better.

I know some of you are going to disagree with me, and I welcome counterpoints on good things that this administration has done or situations that have been handled well. I do dislike George Bush, but my contempt for his ability to run this country is far outweighed by my desire for positive things to happen to this country, its citizens, and the world. I would much rather be wrong about Bush being a bad president and have good things happen to us than for bad things to happen and me be right. Prove me wrong, someone!
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Post by Nick »

Hey guys let's let one of our most famous and historic cities die because we're too busy acting like cool internet guys who don't give a shit about anything unless it directly affects us.
George W. Bush is a bad president. I cannot say if John Kerry or Al Gore would have been a better one, no one can
Oh I think we can make fairly safe bets on that one.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

There is going to come a time when nothing man can do will save that city. It is inevitable...and nothing about its history is going to stop it. The people there have a choice of staying there until they die and it is their choice to make.

As for Bush and his trying to help....or not trying whichever way you want to look at it. He made demands that were not going to be met....which means he did at least put forth an effort. Has he been in office since 1940 or whenever it was that system was built? Don't think so...which only means he is not th eonly politician to ignore that area until it was too late. Bush's main problem is he is clueless about who he should be trusting. he has had some of the worst appointments in history to his cabinet and other roles.

As for good things? Well he had a series of MASSIVE economic hits all pound the country during his first year...and this coming on the heels of a mild downturn that was leading to a recession anyway. I ask you this....is your lifestyle different now than it was when he took office? Did you see a depression hit the country that threatened to cripple it? 9-11 and the incredible string of unscrupulous companies could well have crashed the market and left this country in a shambles....and at least the man slapped a tourniquet on the gaping wound and kept it together to allow for a chance to recover.
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Post by Nick »

I think it's easily arguable that the current US administration has failed abysmally in its responsibility to help rebuild New Orleans.

General economic factors that endeavour to defend George Bush's wisdom are pretty irrelevant.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Whoa there kemosabe. The government is not the one who funds that crap....it is the taxpayers. Not all the taxpayers think we should rebuild that place at all.....If you did a general poll I think you might be surprised at how many think it is actually a waste of our cash to rebuild a place that WILL flood again and if polar caps keep melting will be under water at some point without any levees breaking or equipment failing.
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Post by Winnow »

Sylvus wrote:It's about a place where a number of people have lived for hundreds of years that was recently struck by a natural disaster.
There is an entire field dedicated to underwater archeology. I've seen some of the underwater ruins myself off the coast of Sardinia in the Med, diving down to check out old Roman and Phoenician ruins.

They're under water because...Earth's climate changes...it's not a static system. It's easy to see the rise and fall of the ocean levels over time. New Orleans is in a bad place that we know is getting worse. I don't buy saying it's OK to pour billions into trying to prevent mother nature's advances when it's crystal clear that New Orleans is one of the worse possible places to put a city...doesn't matter if it was a nice place a couple hundred years ago.

All of the money after Katrina should have been focused on relocation and providing a non residential area capable of handling the shipping needs of the area, designed to be able to handle a flood with minimal damage. Residential areas should have been banned in known sub sea level areas that are in known paths of hurricanes that should naturally be underwater.

If stuck in quicksand, you don't keep asking for a longer straw so you can keep breathing in a bad spot, you ask for a rope to pull yourself out.
Last edited by Winnow on March 14, 2007, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Nick wrote:Hey guys let's let one of our most famous and historic cities die because we're too busy acting like cool internet guys who don't give a shit about anything unless it directly affects us.
George W. Bush is a bad president. I cannot say if John Kerry or Al Gore would have been a better one, no one can
Oh I think we can make fairly safe bets on that one.
That's bullshit and you know it, people are just being realistic.
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Post by Nick »

What I do know is that America does have the funds to rebuild New Orleans if it really wanted. The fact it doesn't is a shame, for everyone.

That's not an attack, just an observation.
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Post by Sylvus »

Winnow wrote:I don't buy saying it's OK to pour billions into trying to prevent mother nature's advances when it's crystal clear that New Orleans is one of the worse possible places to put a city...doesn't matter if it was a nice place a couple hundred years ago.
I don't think I ever advocated doing that. In fact, I think it's a terrible idea to live there.

But that money is spent. They spent $6B to repair the area and install pumps to help keep it safe in the future, and the pumps don't do the job they were built for. That's what kind of pisses me off. I realize that we're different in that I don't mind spending some of my money to improve the quality of life for people who are less fortunate for me. But we should both be able to agree on being pissed about the government wasting money on something that isn't going to help anyone, except for the president's brother and business partners.

Not to mention that if we weren't fighting a frivolous war that has killed tens of thousands of people for no reason other than making all of us in this country less safe than we were before, we could have probably paid to have the whole city of New Orleans raised up above sea level or installed Venice-style canals and still had half our tax dollars left.

But yeah, getting mad at poor people who were born and raised in New Orleans for not having moved out prior to Katrina seems like the most reasonable use for your energy.
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Post by Kylere »

The real question is...Why should we rebuild NO?

The port facilities do not require the city, light rail from new construction on higher ground and further inland would serve worker needs and be more friendly in terms of the environment and making people live more comfortably. So we build up homes for the vital port needs, spend much less cash cleaning NO than protecting it, and use the excess to offer reloc assistance. Then we let the area become a national park, we preserve wetlands, river areas etc, make thousands of species happy, improve our national image etc. The land that NO is on is not sacred to any European religion, so even the fundies should not whine. There is nothing in particular of historical value ( and don't give me that 150 years old shit, go to any populated place in Europe and they will scoff at a mere 150 year old building)

The reason we won't? Because the liberals prefer to scream at the conservatives and the republicans will not work with the democrats.
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Post by Siji »

Kylere wrote:The real question is...Why should we rebuild NO?

The port facilities do not require the city, light rail from new construction on higher ground and further inland would serve worker needs and be more friendly in terms of the environment and making people live more comfortably. So we build up homes for the vital port needs, spend much less cash cleaning NO than protecting it, and use the excess to offer reloc assistance. Then we let the area become a national park, we preserve wetlands, river areas etc, make thousands of species happy, improve our national image etc. The land that NO is on is not sacred to any European religion, so even the fundies should not whine. There is nothing in particular of historical value ( and don't give me that 150 years old shit, go to any populated place in Europe and they will scoff at a mere 150 year old building)

The reason we won't? Because the liberals prefer to scream at the conservatives and the republicans will not work with the democrats.
What of the people that own land in NO? Are you going to give them the same amount of land in a similar environment somewhere else or just tell them they're screwed, so sorry? What about families that have grown up there? Sure Europe may be older, but history has to start somewhere. A lot has happened in the last 150 years.
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Post by Boogahz »

I am sure that the Cajuns there would have no problems if another Upheaval sent them around the world again either.
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Post by Winnow »

Sylvus wrote: Not to mention that if we weren't fighting a frivolous war that has killed tens of thousands of people for no reason other than making all of us in this country less safe than we were before, we could have probably paid to have the whole city of New Orleans raised up above sea level or installed Venice-style canals and still had half our tax dollars left.

But yeah, getting mad at poor people who were born and raised in New Orleans for not having moved out prior to Katrina seems like the most reasonable use for your energy.
You're not allowed to bust out the war card! That's like bringing up Hitler and the Nazi's in a debate!

Don't forget that we are over in Iraq to take their oil as well as maintain a presence to protect the flow of oil from all over the Middle East. (and to keep the Middle East destabilized)

I'm not getting mad at poor people. They can still be poor somewhere else and be above sea level with a government provided trailer that'd probably be a palace compared to what they had.

The money is spent, sure. I'm disappointed that whether the new equipment and structures work or not, it was the wrong move and is only setting us up to spend more tax payer dollars in the future.
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Post by kyoukan »

Yeah you can't talk about the Iraq war in a discussion about Bush's failures as a president. What the hell were you thinking?

Another great post, Winnow.
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Post by Kylere »

Wow be careful of letting your ethnocentrism show, 150 years is a blink. There is no land in NO that was acquired in a legal manner, it was all "claimed". But this is not about beating that dead white european horse.

But that is part of relocating people, we can spend billions building levees and pump systems that cannot handle a direct hit, or near hit no matter what, or we can spend the same or less while closing the area to huma n habitation and restoring it environmentally.

It would be a huge economic boom to see serious building in the area, and it would help the environment. The rich republicans could buy more Beemers, and the Poor dems could celebrate the wetlands. Gore and Halliburton would BOTH benefit. But they cannot get along to make it happen, and that is their fault. You can blame Bush the 2nd all you want, but the dike and levee system was inadequately and had been for 10 presidential administrations. of course it is too late now, we should have made that call THEN, and now too much rebuilding has already occurred.

NO is a baby starving to death between a rotten mother holding a bottle and a rotten father holding the formula, they can cooperate or let the brat starve. Considering how well they are handling the entire country, starvation it is...

Sigh, I understand all the arguments about the streets there and the buildings and the history but you cannot consider them looking at the big picture. Venice is sinking into the sea, it has a history that dwarfs the entire post "colonization" of North America and is a HUGE loss to humanity next to NO. If you want to protect "old" buildings and history, apply it where it can accomplish the most good.
Last edited by Kylere on March 14, 2007, 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Animalor »

A lot of people that lived with my ancestors probably landed in the Lousiana area.

If the history I was taught is to be believed, my ancestors were able to escape the deportation and migrated to Northern New-Brunswick, where the english had apparently no interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Expulsion

The group that founded my home town are the folks that went to the Baie des Chaleurs.
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Post by Zaelath »

Kylere wrote:Wow be careful of letting your ethnocentrism show, 150 years is a blink. There is no land in NO that was acquired in a legal manner, it was all "claimed". But this is not about beating that dead white european horse.
All land is claimed, fuck off with this whining bullshit.
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Post by Kylere »

Zaelath wrote:
Kylere wrote:Wow be careful of letting your ethnocentrism show, 150 years is a blink. There is no land in NO that was acquired in a legal manner, it was all "claimed". But this is not about beating that dead white european horse.
All land is claimed, fuck off with this whining bullshit.

Says the son of euroimmigrants who practiced genocide as a land grab technique.
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Post by Traz-KOE »

Sylvus wrote: I don't think I ever advocated doing that. In fact, I think it's a terrible idea to live there.

But that money is spent. They spent $6B to repair the area and install pumps to help keep it safe in the future, and the pumps don't do the job they were built for. That's what kind of pisses me off. I realize that we're different in that I don't mind spending some of my money to improve the quality of life for people who are less fortunate for me. But we should both be able to agree on being pissed about the government wasting money on something that isn't going to help anyone, except for the president's brother and business partners.
Quoting for emphasis, since some of you keyboard chimps seem to be missing the point entirely in your mad rush to splay alphanumeric birdshit across the forums.

I mean, I certainly agree that it's a bare step from being a completely uninhabitable pit. As far as people who own land there, fuck 'em; land ownership is just another type of investment, and sometimes investments fail. However, if the government is bound and determined to waste billions of dollars attempting to rebuild the castle after it collapses into the swamp then I damn well expect that it will be done with working parts.

Shit, give me $6 billion. I could do more for the American people with the interest on it alone than the administration and ACoE have done with the total amount so far.
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Post by Wulfran »

Kylere wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Kylere wrote:Wow be careful of letting your ethnocentrism show, 150 years is a blink. There is no land in NO that was acquired in a legal manner, it was all "claimed". But this is not about beating that dead white european horse.
All land is claimed, fuck off with this whining bullshit.

Says the son of euroimmigrants who practiced genocide as a land grab technique.
So says the son of North American aboriginals who did the same thing before the the Europeans got here...
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Post by Deward »

I find it funny that everyone expects Bush to "fix" what happened in NO. Why is it the federal government's job to rebuild anything? If the people had insurance then they can recoup their losses that way. If they didn't then shame on them. If you can afford a house then you should be able to afford flood insurance. The people had plenty of time to get out when they knew the storm was coming. If you don't have a car then you steal a shopping cart and walk out. I say let people rebuild the area but don't waste my taxpayer dollars on it. If they want roads and schools then charge them locally like everywhere else in the nation. With all the poverty that was there maybe the flood was a good thing and helped disperse that population to other areas where they may be more likely to find a job.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Deward wrote:I find it funny that everyone expects Bush to "fix" what happened in NO. Why is it the federal government's job to rebuild anything? If the people had insurance then they can recoup their losses that way. If they didn't then shame on them. If you can afford a house then you should be able to afford flood insurance. The people had plenty of time to get out when they knew the storm was coming. If you don't have a car then you steal a shopping cart and walk out. I say let people rebuild the area but don't waste my taxpayer dollars on it. If they want roads and schools then charge them locally like everywhere else in the nation. With all the poverty that was there maybe the flood was a good thing and helped disperse that population to other areas where they may be more likely to find a job.
/agree

One of the things that irritated me most was the fact the government was supposed to pay out because people didn't carry the proper insurance. You wouldn't drive a car that you couldn't afford insurance for, it shouldn't be any different for a house.

What's that you say? The insurance is too expensive? Well tough shit then, go live in a fucking apartment where you don't have to worry about it. I honestly think that in places where natural disasters are common and will have this kind of effect, it should be illegal to own a home and not have the proper disaster insurance.

I mean, in most places it is illegal to not carry at least minimal car insurance so that someone you may get into an accident with does not get screwed.. Well this is a much bigger scale, these people don't carry insurance, and the WHOLE FUCKING COUNTRY got screwed which is unacceptable.
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Post by Boogahz »

Part of the problem in the region was/is that the homeowner's insurance adjusters were saying it was the flooding that caused the damage, and the flood insurance adjusters (sometimes with the same company :roll: )were saying it was the hurricane (winds/rain/etc) that caused it. This is why State Farm was recently attempting to settle a lawsuit against them for how they handled their homeowner's claims in the areas hit.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Boogahz wrote:Part of the problem in the region was/is that the homeowner's insurance adjusters were saying it was the flooding that caused the damage, and the flood insurance adjusters (sometimes with the same company :roll: )were saying it was the hurricane (winds/rain/etc) that caused it. This is why State Farm was recently attempting to settle a lawsuit against them for how they handled their homeowner's claims in the areas hit.
I won't argue with you that insurance companies get away with legal extortion every second of every minute. Honestly, if the government doesn't step in and regulate them at some point no one will be able to afford insurance for anything. But then again that probably won't happen, because they are the ones that make it illegal to not have insurance.

The fact of the matter is that in life you have to do certain things, and if you don't YOU have to pay the price.
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Post by Boogahz »

The states DO regulate the insurance. Flood insurance is a federal requirement though. A homeowner's policy is very clear about not covering flood damage.
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Post by kyoukan »

oh god here comes the lolbertarians.

you know you can't buy flood insurance in that part of louisiana, right?
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Post by Funkmasterr »

kyoukan wrote:oh god here comes the lolbertarians.

you know you can't buy flood insurance in that part of louisiana, right?
If that is the case, then that part of the state should be marked uninhabitable and no one should live there. By no means should anyone else be paying for them to live there, absolutely no argument in the world could possibly make me change my mind on this.
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Post by kyoukan »

You'll cheerfully throw 100's of billions of dollars "liberating" Iraq, but throwing a tenth, a twentieth of that amount in restoring hundreds of years of history and culture to one of the oldest parts of the nation makes total and complete sense to you?

no argument will ever convince you because you are a fucking obtuse mongloid.

Oh, I forgot. I am throwing the words "history and culture" at an American.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

kyoukan wrote:You'll cheerfully throw 100's of billions of dollars "liberating" Iraq, but throwing a tenth, a twentieth of that amount in restoring hundreds of years of history and culture to one of the oldest parts of the nation makes total and complete sense to you?

no argument will ever convince you because you are a fucking obtuse mongloid.

Oh, I forgot. I am throwing the words "history and culture" at an American.
You are so focused on being the normal obnoxious loud mouthed fucking bitch you always are that you didn't even re read your post enough to notice it makes no sense.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much money we keep dumping into that shithole, it's going to get completely wiped out eventually - so why spend the effort on it. Yes there is a lot of history there, but it is also one of the countries biggest shithole slums too - not exactly my first pick for places to save.
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Post by Nick »

Except that no.

First of all, calling one of your countries most culturally important cities a shithole just continues to further highlight what a seething foaming at the mouth fucktard you actually are.

Secondly, you're hard on for pouring billions and billions of dollars into the bottomless unwinnable pit of war yet crying like a fucking bitch when it involves suggesting you help people in your own country recover from a massive tragedy deserves to be highlighted for its fucking insane degree of stupidity and lack of relativity.
If that is the case, then that part of the state should be marked uninhabitable and no one should live there. By no means should anyone else be paying for them to live there, absolutely no argument in the world could possibly make me change my mind on this.
Hey why stop there?! Why not just ban people from living in semi dangerous spots all over America? Get hit by a random tsunami because you lived by the sea? Lol fuck you! San Francisco destroyed by Earthquake? LOL owned! Yellowstone erupts? You knew the dangers!

You'd think you'd have even a little bit of compassion for your fellow countrymen that got so severely dicked by the event and their government's subsequent lack of response but obviously you're embarrasingly desperate longing to be considered some sort of two bit Machiavellian hardnut is more important.


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Post by vn_Tanc »

Funkmasterr wrote: The fact of the matter is, no matter how much money we keep dumping into that shithole, it's going to get completely wiped out eventually - so why spend the effort on it
Same as everything west of the San Andreas fault then.
And everything in range of the yellowstone supervolcano.
Oh and anything within 20 miles of a coastline with a tsunami risk.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Finally Tanc gets it! Oh wait...he was being sarcastic. You know, in this day and age, I would think that people might actually use the information they have to not inhabit an area they KNOW is going to cease to exist at some point in the not so distant future. Hell....every place has flood plains, but unless you are a moron you don't choose to live there. If you do, then you have no one to blame but yourself when it gets wiped out.
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Post by Nick »

And if you live in a high crime area you are to blame when you get robbed. etc etc.

Bullshit.
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Post by Boogahz »

Nick wrote:And if you live in a high crime area you are to blame when you get robbed. etc etc.

Bullshit.
Contrary to reports from the Tin Foil Brigade, Hurricanes, Earthquakes and Volcanic Eruptions are not created by humans.
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Post by Nick »

Not the point. :P

It doesn't matter if danger is caused by humans or natural disaster, using Kilmoll's reasoning it's down to whether a person knows there is a chance of disaster in their home area and as such, when or if it happens, that person only has himself to blame.

Which is, as I said, bullshit. Simply because if everyone dictated their life based on fear of danger and disaster caused by rare freak occurences then none of us would ever leave the house.

It's not a realistic way of looking at the world.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Oh.....I get it now....thes rest of the world is obligated to pay you and make everything all better every time something bad happens. I have not seen the government step in to give me my money back when I have had my shit stolen.
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