Ahmadienjad's Letter to the American People

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 29, 2006, 6:50 pm

(CNN) -- In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

O, Almighty God, bestow upon humanity the perfect human being promised to all by You, and make us among his followers.

Noble Americans,

Were we not faced with the activities of the US administration in this part of the world and the negative ramifications of those activities on the daily lives of our peoples, coupled with the many wars and calamities caused by the US administration as well as the tragic consequences of US interference in other countries;

Were the American people not God-fearing, truth-loving, and justice-seeking, while the US administration actively conceals the truth and impedes any objective portrayal of current realities;

And if we did not share a common responsibility to promote and protect freedom and human dignity and integrity;

Then, there would have been little urgency to have a dialogue with you.

While Divine providence has placed Iran and the United States geographically far apart, we should be cognizant that human values and our common human spirit, which proclaim the dignity and exalted worth of all human beings, have brought our two great nations of Iran and the United States closer together.

Both our nations are God-fearing, truth-loving and justice-seeking, and both seek dignity, respect and perfection.

Both greatly value and readily embrace the promotion of human ideals such as compassion, empathy, respect for the rights of human beings, securing justice and equity, and defending the innocent and the weak against oppressors and bullies.

We are all inclined towards the good, and towards extending a helping hand to one another, particularly to those in need.

We all deplore injustice, the trampling of peoples' rights and the intimidation and humiliation of human beings.

We all detest darkness, deceit, lies and distortion, and seek and admire salvation, enlightenment, sincerity and honesty.

The pure human essence of the two great nations of Iran and the United States testify to the veracity of these statements.

Noble Americans,

Our nation has always extended its hand of friendship to all other nations of the world.

Hundreds of thousands of my Iranian compatriots are living amongst you in friendship and peace, and are contributing positively to your society. Our people have been in contact with you over the past many years and have maintained these contacts despite the unnecessary restrictions of US authorities.

As mentioned, we have common concerns, face similar challenges, and are pained by the sufferings and afflictions in the world.

We, like you, are aggrieved by the ever-worsening pain and misery of the Palestinian people. Persistent aggressions by the Zionists are making life more and more difficult for the rightful owners of the land of Palestine. In broad day-light, in front of cameras and before the eyes of the world, they are bombarding innocent defenseless civilians, bulldozing houses, firing machine guns at students in the streets and alleys, and subjecting their families to endless grief.

No day goes by without a new crime.

Palestinian mothers, just like Iranian and American mothers, love their children, and are painfully bereaved by the imprisonment, wounding and murder of their children. What mother wouldn't?

For 60 years, the Zionist regime has driven millions of the inhabitants of Palestine out of their homes. Many of these refugees have died in the Diaspora and in refugee camps. Their children have spent their youth in these camps and are aging while still in the hope of returning to homeland.

You know well that the US administration has persistently provided blind and blanket support to the Zionist regime, has emboldened it to continue its crimes, and has prevented the UN Security Council from condemning it.

Who can deny such broken promises and grave injustices towards humanity by the US administration?

Governments are there to serve their own people. No people wants to side with or support any oppressors. But regrettably, the US administration disregards even its own public opinion and remains in the forefront of supporting the trampling of the rights of the Palestinian people.

Let's take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception.

Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated.

In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government.

Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq.

I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure.

Noble Americans,

You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world. God knows who these detainees actually are, and what terrible fate awaits them.

You have certainly heard the sad stories of the Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The US administration attempts to justify them through its proclaimed "war on terror." But every one knows that such behavior, in fact, offends global public opinion, exacerbates resentment and thereby spreads terrorism, and tarnishes the US image and its credibility among nations.

The US administration's illegal and immoral behavior is not even confined to outside its borders. You are witnessing daily that under the pretext of "the war on terror," civil liberties in the United States are being increasingly curtailed. Even the privacy of individuals is fast losing its meaning. Judicial due process and fundamental rights are trampled upon. Private phones are tapped, suspects are arbitrarily arrested, sometimes beaten in the streets, or even shot to death.

I have no doubt that the American people do not approve of this behavior and indeed deplore it.

The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council. But, I do not intend to address all the challenges and calamities in this message.

The legitimacy, power and influence of a government do not emanate from its arsenals of tanks, fighter aircrafts, missiles or nuclear weapons. Legitimacy and influence reside in sound logic, quest for justice and compassion and empathy for all humanity. The global position of the United States is in all probability weakened because the administration has continued to resort to force, to conceal the truth, and to mislead the American people about its policies and practices.

Undoubtedly, the American people are not satisfied with this behavior and they showed their discontent in the recent elections. I hope that in the wake of the mid-term elections, the administration of President Bush will have heard and will heed the message of the American people.

My questions are the following:

Is there not a better approach to governance?

Is it not possible to put wealth and power in the service of peace, stability, prosperity and the happiness of all peoples through a commitment to justice and respect for the rights of all nations, instead of aggression and war?

We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent.

But, can terrorism be contained and eradicated through war, destruction and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents?

If that were possible, then why has the problem not been resolved?

The sad experience of invading Iraq is before us all.

What has blind support for the Zionists by the US administration brought for the American people? It is regrettable that for the US administration, the interests of these occupiers supersedes the interests of the American people and of the other nations of the world.

What have the Zionists done for the American people that the US administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors? Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?

I recommend that in a demonstration of respect for the American people and for humanity, the right of Palestinians to live in their own homeland should be recognized so that millions of Palestinian refugees can return to their homes and the future of all of Palestine and its form of government be determined in a referendum. This will benefit everyone.

Now that Iraq has a Constitution and an independent Assembly and Government, would it not be more beneficial to bring the US officers and soldiers home, and to spend the astronomical US military expenditures in Iraq for the welfare and prosperity of the American people? As you know very well, many victims of Katrina continue to suffer, and countless Americans continue to live in poverty and homelessness.

I'd also like to say a word to the winners of the recent elections in the US:

The United States has had many administrations; some who have left a positive legacy, and others that are neither remembered fondly by the American people nor by other nations.

Now that you control an important branch of the US Government, you will also be held to account by the people and by history.

If the US Government meets the current domestic and external challenges with an approach based on truth and Justice, it can remedy some of the past afflictions and alleviate some of the global resentment and hatred of America. But if the approach remains the same, it would not be unexpected that the American people would similarly reject the new electoral winners, although the recent elections, rather than reflecting a victory, in reality point to the failure of the current administration's policies. These issues had been extensively dealt with in my letter to President Bush earlier this year.

To sum up:

It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice.

It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion.

It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war.

It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets.

Then, the American people, who are God-fearing and followers of Divine religions, will overcome every difficulty.

What I stated represents some of my anxieties and concerns.

I am confident that you, the American people, will play an instrumental role in the establishment of justice and spirituality throughout the world. The promises of the Almighty and His prophets will certainly be realized, Justice and Truth will prevail and all nations will live a true life in a climate replete with love, compassion and fraternity.

The US governing establishment, the authorities and the powerful should not choose irreversible paths. As all prophets have taught us, injustice and transgression will eventually bring about decline and demise. Today, the path of return to faith and spirituality is open and unimpeded.

We should all heed the Divine Word of the Holy Qur'an:

"But those who repent, have faith and do good may receive Salvation. Your Lord, alone, creates and chooses as He will, and others have no part in His choice; Glorified is God and Exalted above any partners they ascribe to Him." (28:67-68)

I pray to the Almighty to bless the Iranian and American nations and indeed all nations of the world with dignity and success.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran
29 November 2006

Thoughts?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 29, 2006, 8:12 pm

You're a sucker for anything that mentions god more than 100 times!

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » November 29, 2006, 8:38 pm

If he was sincere, great. But let's not forget, this guy has ambitions. Now he can say he's offered his hand in friendship and working together, and the Americans will be the ones who turned him down. Now he can say to his own people that he tried, but those evil bastards across the seas got in his way. It's our fault, not his, that the nuclear crisis will continue. This guy reminds me of Otto Von Bismarck, the guy who brought the German states together in the 1870s by manipulating his neighbors and fighting wars at precisely the right time. Ahmadinejad is a slick character, and he knows his politics.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » November 29, 2006, 9:00 pm

OMG Ahmadinejad uses smileys in his letters!

It is not entirely without truth(s). But this guy is on the same page as George Bush...A zealot with power. He does have W in the eloquence department. Largely though the content is horseshit diplomatic and political posturing.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 29, 2006, 10:40 pm

He lost me at Noble Americans. Anyone that this letter is addressed to, it would be wasted on anyway, and are far from noble.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » November 30, 2006, 12:51 am

It was addressed to the general population. That's what I gathered from reading it. Surely you can't believe all Americans can fit into a classification with the administration.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 30, 2006, 12:57 am

Kaldaur wrote:Surely you can't believe all Americans can fit into a classification with the administration.

There's an easy explanation for this. Kyoukan is a retard.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 30, 2006, 12:59 am

wow, what a fucking zinger.

read what I said again.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 30, 2006, 4:14 am

What she said hardly took a rocket scientist to understand.

Al · Post by Al » November 30, 2006, 6:54 am

kyoukan wrote:wow, what a fucking zinger.

read what I said again.

Far too much punctuation for my current reading level. I'll re-read this thread in it's entirety on the morrow.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 30, 2006, 9:03 am

I would of liked Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to have posted this letter himself!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » November 30, 2006, 11:07 am

kyoukan wrote:He lost me at Noble Americans. Anyone that this letter is addressed to, it would be wasted on anyway, and are far from noble.

It appears this is addressed to citizens outside the government as I will illustrate with this quote

Noble Americans,

You have heard that the US administration

therefore, you and your US hating little leprechaun shadow can go and set yourself on fire while wrapped in a US flag or whatever else you two retards do to show your emphatic hatred for anything regarding this country.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » November 30, 2006, 11:49 am

Yeah Kilmoll, that's what I was referring to. Since he spoke of the administration in the 3rd person, I thought this letter was addressed to the American people, and not the administration.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 30, 2006, 1:21 pm

what do they teach you in schools down there? is it just 100% sports and revisionist history? do they not even touch on reading comprehension any longer?

I realize that you're falling way behind the curve for industrialized nations when it comes to education, but does basic english not even get looked at?

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » November 30, 2006, 1:46 pm

the guy is a snake. The whole fuckin thing reads like a subliminal ad. He goes on and on about valid problems that many Americans acknowledge.. kissing millions of asses all at once... and then drops in a plea for the eradication of Israel as if it has anything to do with our problems.

Yes the US administration is warmongering, but ultimately his goal is the same- to commit a war in Israel and eradicate the state for reasons that I find even more revolting than any of the possible reasons that we are in Iraq. He avoids violent truths like that in his message, unless hes talking about Israeli actions against the innocent orphans and widows of Palestine. Same ambitious propaganda.. different mouth.

And he's overestimating the worth of US support in Israel anyway.. even if the US turns their back, Israel would still be more than capable of humiliating any Iranian hostility. If this plea was accepted by the US people, which it wont be, it would not amount to anything.

Yeah there is change coming for the US which will remain positive despite this attempt at exploitation

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 30, 2006, 1:50 pm

And he's overestimating the worth of US support in Israel anyway.. even if the US turns their back, Israel would still be more than capable of humiliating any Iranian hostility. If this plea was accepted by the US people, which it wont be, it would not amount to anything.

I imagine Israel would get severely fucking owned even at the expense of the rest of the Middle East if the US were to back off it's unending unquestioning support.

Regardless, the only way to even start cleaning the middle east up is to start with Palestine.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » November 30, 2006, 2:59 pm

With Israel it's a case where both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. Unfortunately, both sides are still unable to come to a compromise, as they both are basically demanding all or nothing.
If a "right of return" were given to Palestinians, the Jews in Israel are afraid that they will become a minority in their "own" country - and they do not ever want to be a minority again for obvious historical reasons. I understand this reasoning, and also believe that the jews deserve a homeland.
As for the Palestinians, many of them were removed from their homes in the '48 and later wars and this continues to this day. I understand their loss of place, and their continued marginalization by both the Israeli government and the international community (even other Arab countries, which primarily use them as pawns to their own ends - especially Iran as this letter shows) is horrible.

Yet, both of these people need a place to call their homeland, and it cannot be the same place. That's the conundrum, and unfortunately both sides seem to get their jollies off of killing each other. It needs to stop, and both sides need to turn the other cheek on what's happened in the past and move toward the two state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital. That, I feel, is the only permanent way to stop this, but the will is not there yet (particularly for the stopping of violence).

Animale

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 30, 2006, 3:05 pm

Maybe if Israel stopped occupying Palestine it would go a long way to show they weren't such blatant destroyers of humans rights.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » November 30, 2006, 3:29 pm

thats why he said both sides are wrong and both sides are right. depending on who you ask, Israel is a nation of refugees.. or a mass of Zionist invaders that isnt even a nation at all.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » November 30, 2006, 7:15 pm

The question is, how does one define "Palestine" here. If one just includes Gaza and the West Bank (for sake of argument, let's say 1948 borders) plus a guaranteed land link between the two, then I'd wager a guess that the majority of Israelis would support such a "concession" (albeit not really a concession).
However, getting the militant Palestinian minority to agree to the 1948 border is a tough thing... and right now even the majority of Palestinians probably don't support that due to both the fomenting of the militants and Israels attacks upon civilian centers. They want Israel completely removed from the planet.
The thing is, the middle ground, that is both confirming Israel's "right to exist" and supporting the formation of a viable Palestinian Arab state, is just not on the minds of either side. Israel obviously wants to continue to exist in the face of the so-called "arab onslought" and are willing to kill civilians to do it. The Palestinians (and the Arab world in general) don't want to give up their past to reforge a new future. It's a conundrum.

Animale

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » November 30, 2006, 7:38 pm

Kyo wrote:what do they teach you in schools down there? is it just 100% sports and revisionist history? do they not even touch on reading comprehension any longer?

I realize that you're falling way behind the curve for industrialized nations when it comes to education, but does basic english not even get looked at?

My best guess is that when she said 'anyone that this letter is addressed to,' she was intending to imply that this letter is addressed to those ignorant, unwashed Americans who blindly support the oppressive foreign policy of the United States. That any American who is smart enough to have the capability of realizing the injustices perpetrated by our government has already realized those injustices, and does not require prompting from Ahmadenijad. I don't agree with this, but I think that's the point being made.

Nick wrote:I imagine Israel would get severely fucking owned even at the expense of the rest of the Middle East if the US were to back off it's unending unquestioning support.

Israel has nukes. Given how bloodthirsty you seem to consider Israel to be, do you really doubt that they would use them if faced with annihilation? The military destruction of a nuclear nation is something unprecedented in world history. To pretend that we can know the outcome of the Israel situation is folly.

Nick wrote:Maybe if Israel stopped occupying Palestine it would go a long way to show they weren't such blatant destroyers of humans rights.

I'm pretty sure that when Ahmadenijad says 'Palestine,' he means all of Israel. Outside of options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering, I fail to see how Israel could un-occupy Israel. Do you just want every Jew in Israel to pack up and get the fuck out?

If you're using Animale's definition of Palestine, sure, that's probably something that has to be done eventually. But, given the fact that many Palestinians, along with many Arabs and many Persians don't consider this a sufficient definition of Palestine or a sufficient solution to the problem, do you really expect it to (a) happen or (b) accomplish anything? It certainly won't happen without a concurrent concession from the Palestinian side-- why would Israel unilaterally give up a significant amount of power when there's not even a guarantee of improved relations? What makes you think that the anti-Israel mideast powerbrokers would take such a unilateral action as anything other than an opportunity?

Animale wrote:It needs to stop, and both sides need to turn the other cheek on what's happened in the past and move toward the two state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital. That, I feel, is the only permanent way to stop this, but the will is not there yet (particularly for the stopping of violence).

Of all the eventual ends to the Israel/Palestine situation that don't involve massive bloodshed, this seems the most likely to me.

As for my take on the letter: It's a sensible letter that speaks a lot of truth, although there are certainly things I disagree with (like the overstating of the Israel situation and the overly strong support for monotheism and a religious basis for morality, justice, legitimacy, and government action). If both nations could take some of the content to heart, we'd all be much better off.

Sadly, I can't imagine that this letter is issued in a serious sense. Ahmadenijad is a political animal and this is political rhetoric and propoganda, just as the United States recurrent talk of the war on terrorism and the flourishing of democracy that we're trying to create and our mission of liberating the mideast is political rhetoric and propoganda. Saying nice things that you don't mean doesn't fix anything. I find it hard to trust the pleasant-sounding rhetoric that comes out of either side until it's accompanied by action.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 30, 2006, 10:11 pm

Sueven wrote: I'm pretty sure that when Ahmadenijad says 'Palestine,' he means all of Israel. Outside of options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering, I fail to see how Israel could un-occupy Israel. Do you just want every Jew in Israel to pack up and get the fuck out?

That'd be grand. Last one out turn off the lights? There's only 6 million of them, you could absorb that into the US without even noticing.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » November 30, 2006, 10:15 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Sueven wrote: I'm pretty sure that when Ahmadenijad says 'Palestine,' he means all of Israel. Outside of options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering, I fail to see how Israel could un-occupy Israel. Do you just want every Jew in Israel to pack up and get the fuck out?
That'd be grand. Last one out turn off the lights? There's only 6 million of them, you could absorb that into the US without even noticing.

What reason would they have in coming to the US? Israel is in it's current location for a reason, and I doubt it's because that was one place where a population could be shoved out of the way. As much as people want to avoid or belittle religion, it is a major reason for most of the issues taking place in and around Jerusalem.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » November 30, 2006, 10:47 pm

Boog wrote:What reason would they have in coming to the US? Israel is in it's current location for a reason, and I doubt it's because that was one place where a population could be shoved out of the way. As much as people want to avoid or belittle religion, it is a major reason for most of the issues taking place in and around Jerusalem.

Agreed. Plus

Animale wrote:they do not ever want to be a minority again for obvious historical reasons.

Add to that numerous arguments about the practicality (nil) and the morality (quite dubious) of the plan, and it falls into the

me wrote:options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering

category. I'd love to just convince the Israeli's and the Palestinians that they should just smoke a joint and chill and get along, but that also falls into the group of Things That Sure Would Be Nice.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » November 30, 2006, 11:36 pm

Clooney/Ahmadinejad in 2008!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 1, 2006, 12:02 am

The letter reads more like a political/religious hands-across-america ad than a sincere statement--and even if it is sincere...well, who cares, eh? I get a daily 'reading' from my born-again aunt every day via email and it is more sincere, if not a tad more wackoomgjesuspraiseyaybabyjesus, etc...

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » December 1, 2006, 1:00 am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SGEn32CuS78

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 1, 2006, 1:57 am

Sueven wrote:
Boog wrote:What reason would they have in coming to the US? Israel is in it's current location for a reason, and I doubt it's because that was one place where a population could be shoved out of the way. As much as people want to avoid or belittle religion, it is a major reason for most of the issues taking place in and around Jerusalem.
Agreed. Plus

Animale wrote:they do not ever want to be a minority again for obvious historical reasons.
Add to that numerous arguments about the practicality (nil) and the morality (quite dubious) of the plan, and it falls into the

me wrote:options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering
category. I'd love to just convince the Israeli's and the Palestinians that they should just smoke a joint and chill and get along, but that also falls into the group of Things That Sure Would Be Nice.

Ah so, the realistic options then are genocide of the Israeli people or all arabs. Realism is apparently quite fatal

That said, I was being sarcastic ya nonces.

Of course, I find it pretty funny that you think Israelis aren't a minority now.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 1, 2006, 2:15 am

They might be a minority numerically; it doesn't mean they're a minority in power terms. Men are a minority. Albeit a bigger one.

Genocide isn't the only option unless you don't think there's any way the two groups can co-exist. The Animale sharing Jerusalem idea is another option.

And I'm never really being serious.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 1, 2006, 2:21 am

I'm pretty sure that when Ahmadenijad says 'Palestine,' he means all of Israel. Outside of options that are totally absurd, unrealistic, and not worth considering, I fail to see how Israel could un-occupy Israel. Do you just want every Jew in Israel to pack up and get the fuck out?

If you're using Animale's definition of Palestine, sure, that's probably something that has to be done eventually. But, given the fact that many Palestinians, along with many Arabs and many Persians don't consider this a sufficient definition of Palestine or a sufficient solution to the problem, do you really expect it to (a) happen or (b) accomplish anything? It certainly won't happen without a concurrent concession from the Palestinian side-- why would Israel unilaterally give up a significant amount of power when there's not even a guarantee of improved relations? What makes you think that the anti-Israel mideast powerbrokers would take such a unilateral action as anything other than an opportunity?

I mean it in the actual "recognised" Palestinian terroritories ie. the west bank and gaza which the Israeli's have been occupying and oppressing the Palestinians in.

I would love to see a single american spend one week in gaza and try and justify the Israeli occuption there.

noel · Post by **noel** » December 1, 2006, 2:53 am

Regarding the letter, not the status of Israel...

He makes a lot of points that are pretty clear to most educated Americans who are smart enough to not be watching Fox news 24/7. He's extremely polite and complimentary in the same way that a used car salesman is polite and complimentary. He makes some strong attempts to make it seem as though our people and cultures are roughly the same and enjoy the same freedoms when that's not really the case at all. He's obviously very educated and very well read (or advised).

Unfortunately, his 'ultimate solutions' to America's bad reputation in the middle east (paraphrasing obviously), are the withdraw of our support for Israel (I'm in favor of that but perhaps not in the same way that Ahmadenijad is) and our total withdraw from Iraq.

Let us not forget that this is the same man who believes that the holocaust never happened...

I dig what he's saying, but that's all it is. There's no substance in the entire letter. There's no offer for Iran to do a damn thing to make the world a better place, just a very polite list of complaints about our government which is really nothing new. John Stewart does it nightly, makes more salient points, makes me laugh, and doesn't want to wipe out Israel in the most violent way possible.

Al · Post by Al » December 1, 2006, 4:29 am

noel wrote:Regarding the letter, not the status of Israel...

He makes a lot of points that are pretty clear to most educated Americans who are smart enough to not be watching Fox news 24/7. He's extremely polite and complimentary in the same way that a used car salesman is polite and complimentary. He makes some strong attempts to make it seem as though our people and cultures are roughly the same and enjoy the same freedoms when that's not really the case at all. He's obviously very educated and very well read (or advised).

Unfortunately, his 'ultimate solutions' to America's bad reputation in the middle east (paraphrasing obviously), are the withdraw of our support for Israel (I'm in favor of that but perhaps not in the same way that Ahmadenijad is) and our total withdraw from Iraq.

Let us not forget that this is the same man who believes that the holocaust never happened...

I dig what he's saying, but that's all it is. There's no substance in the entire letter. There's no offer for Iran to do a damn thing to make the world a better place, just a very polite list of complaints about our government which is really nothing new. John Stewart does it nightly, makes more salient points, makes me laugh, and doesn't want to wipe out Israel in the most violent way possible.

I was going to go point for point against the letter, but you summed up what I would have said. I am not in favor of the blanket support we give the "Zionist regime", but I could never believe the destruction of their culture (nearly for the second time) is the proper solution.

My one concern is that this is a list of grievances. He asks us to repent at the end of the letter (or, rather, he quotes a Quran passage asking for repentance). I feel whole-heartedly that this man is a danger to the world, and I have felt for longer still that Iran cannot be trusted on international issues. Our nation caused his nations defeat in the Iran-Iraq war. While I would welcome peace in nearly any form, I do not believe peace is his intention.

Al · Post by Al » December 1, 2006, 4:47 am

kyoukan wrote:He lost me at Noble Americans. Anyone that this letter is addressed to, it would be wasted on anyway, and are far from noble.

The problem with the punctuation was your addition of commas in the second sentence. A proper sentence could have read, "Anyone that this letter is addressed to it would be wasted on anyway and are far from noble.", although now it doesn't really make sense. Maybe, "Any addressee to which this letter concerns would be illegitimate, lacking nobility." The only problem now is your poke at the people of the United States, for the letter clearly states them as the addressee, and you clearly (?) state that to have this letter directed at you is a waste, being far from noble. Not to stoop to your level, but I would bet I know far more Americans than you. I cannot even begin to see the truth in your statement, and I cannot understand how a Canadian could say that no American has a shred of nobility. I can think of several dozen extremely admirable Americans right off the top of my head, and all of those died keeping your freedom to say what you say.

You believe what you want, but Americans are far from ignoble (to counter a blanket statement with a blanket statement.)

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2006, 12:47 pm

Well remember that he does have a PhD and use to be a professor so he is well read, and very intelligent.

I agree with most of what Noel said in his letter but I would also add that I believe that we as Americans need to come to terms with what we have done, both good and bad, in the middle east during the past 60 years if we want to truly have peace there.

Sure his letter is over simplified and not all of his statements, especially about the freedoms in Iran are probably true. But some of his statements are true and while he touches on past issues he doesn't bring them out into the fore front. Hell many Americans still believe that we can do no wrong.

IMHO I believe he is power hungry but not crazy. He is power hungry because he is one of the few Shia leaders in the world, he is also the leader of what use to be one of the greatest powers in the world and a country that has a rich and wonderful culture much older and more established than our own. I think the real desire for his power and the appeal to the American people is 2 fold.

First he wants respect for Iran. He will not be the leader forever but if he can make strong headways with the rest of the world, he could be forever idolized. I do not believe being idolized is a personal goal because it woudl go against his beliefs but I do believe that all leaders want to be remembered well, correct? I think he has realized that the zealot like statements of "wiping Israel off the map" are not the way to do that. If anyone saw his interview with Andersen Cooper he was very calm except when talking about Chavez who I would guess he now detests after that stupid devil speech. Because he is smart I believe he seeks to find ways for Iran to get the respect they diserve. One of those is to become a more powerful and trusted nation in World Politics and the second is to have Nuclear weapons.
Nukes seems to get your respect undreamed of just a few years before you had them (hence India & Pakistan). I believe he is working on both.

Secondly I think he truly wants to make life better for the people of Iran. They have had it pretty bad since the US and Britian put the Shah into power. His deathsquads and totalatrian control was at least as bad as Saddam. Hell it provoked the more peaceful side of Islam to rise up and fight didn't it? But they don't have most of the power, the Sunnis do, pretty much everwhere else. Now since the Islamic Revolution in Iran, many Shia have also taken up fight, primarily in Israel, but lets remember that after providing support for a major tyrant for 40 or so years who killed his people, we then throw our support behind another murderer (Saddam) to fight Iran after the hostage situation... yes we eventually turn on that murderer but after beating him back we allow (yes we allow) him to fly his helocopters into a no fly zone and gas his opposition (the kurds) whom HAD been helping us... now Saddam is being tried for that genocide, which he should be, but come on, is it really right for us to sit there and point the figer when we let him do it?

So my point is that Iran has every freakin' reason to be leary of the US, hell we have done some pretty shitty things to them the past 60 years or so... AND they have done some pretty shitty things too, like supporting Hezbolla, taking the hostages etc... Personally I don't think what they have done to us compares to what we have done to them from purley a body count standpoint but I'm sure many people can find some justification for our actions as they often do.

Anyway, the way we win this situation is to freakin' go over there or have him over here and lay it on the line. Say look, we know we did this, and we know you are trying to do that etc... Now we can keep going like this eventually blowing shit up or we can try to work this out. Hell if Bush would send me over there I bet I could fix it. Yea Yea I know that is wishful thinking but all I need are the facts I don't know and I'm not to big to admit my screws ups or those of my country. Just like as individuals if we understand those and make amends while demanding amends and concsssions, it can be worked out, it not that different from a multimillion dollar business contract...

IMHO we need Iran as much as they need us. I believe they can help bring peace to Iraq and would a more united Persia be a bad thing? Not if they are on our side it wouldn't. While in some ways it would piss off our Sunni buddies in Saudi, it would also give us leverage to talk about some of their shortcomings as well and I'm 150% sure it would drive down the price of oil.

We both want a Palistaian state, we tell him to quit using the Zionist language and chill a little, more importantly tell Hezbolla to chill. I beleve he can do that and that is one of the thing we need to bring peace to the region. It won't be exactly what he wants, nor what Israel or even what we want, but it could be better than what we have now... I'm sure of that.

In regards to the Holocaust he said in one of his intereviews that he didn't say "it didn't happen" he said that he questioned if it was as bad as proported and why was that such a bad question to ask? Heh, well it's a bad question to ask because everyone accepts in the west the number but remember these guys have no reason to really trust us? Hell if I were President I would call him and tell him that AF1 will pick him up at Teharan Internation and we will fly to Germany together, he can see the camps for himself while we talk about how to re-establish relations and fix Iraq...

Marb

PS - Of course some people believe that once we have Peace in the Middle East that the 7 years of the AntiChrist start... but that is another thread.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2006, 12:47 pm

double post

noel · Post by **noel** » December 1, 2006, 1:50 pm

As much as possible I'd like to stay on the topic of the letter and it's meaning, intent and what action if any should be taken about it, but...

Marbus : The people you mentioned in your PS are pretty bad, but perhaps not as bad as our leadership who absolutely refuse to engage in any dialogue or discussion with Iran unless it's completely one-sided. We can't get to a point where we reach any common ground if Iran refuses to accept any form of Israel, and if the US continues to make blanket statements about Iran being evil.

Our current administration has done little to endear us to the rest of the world, but Iran needs to drop the crazy rhetoric if they're going to be taken seriously and instead stick with the messages of promoting peace in that region. I don't believe that these countries should have to be America's lap dog (HI SAUDI ARABIA, JORDAN and to a lesser extent of late EGYPT), but they need to start working toward a way to peacefully co-exist with Israel... as far as what that Israel should be... that's open to debate, but as I said we're not even at a point where we can take some of these countries seriously enough to have that discussion.

And so the cycle continues...

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 1, 2006, 5:00 pm

I agree, that is why I said I would take him to Germany and tell him to drop the Zionist language... as I said, he won't be fully happy I'm sure but if we at least try to meet in the middle and could create a Pal state then we could get him to recognize Israel, he is too smart not realize it will eventually happen and is ultimatly in Iran's best interest. Right now I think he keeps that up, although he hasn't been as vocal about it recently, to please the hard liners.

But you are right... the cycle continues...

Marb

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » December 2, 2006, 12:33 am

Marbus wrote:I agree, that is why I said I would take him to Germany and tell him to drop the Zionist language...

Extraordinary rendition style?