a letter from Kevin Tillman

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 23, 2006, 10:20 pm

Not sure if this is posted, so flame away if it was, but I thought it was short and simple, yet made some very good points.

Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.

Now here's what he wrote:

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... s_birthday

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 23, 2006, 11:11 pm

Add:

Somehow, I bet his tune would have been totally different if his brother came home alive.

Somehow, every democrat will find a way to squeeze in a "somehow" quote from Kevin Tillman in their campaign speeches.

Somehow, I don't think Pat Tillman would have been writing "somehow" letters after he returned from the war.

---

Great quote from Pat Tillman's younger brother Rich at the funeral:

Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, took offense at words that Tillman was now "with God"; he stated to the gathering, "Pat isn't with God. He's fucking dead. He wasn't religious."

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 24, 2006, 1:41 am

somehow i knew you'd say that

somehow his brother died,

now to ask the question why.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 24, 2006, 2:00 am

wow, look everyone. winnow doesn't fucking get it.

this email is already getting the snopes challenge. I am ready to declare it fake even though most of these phony emails supposedly written by famous people usually come from the far right.

Midgen · Post by **Midgen** » October 24, 2006, 2:37 am

Pat Tillman made his own choices. It's an all or nothing thing. You swear an oath to that effect.

Losing his brother is truely a tragedy.

I don't see brother Kevin questioning Pat's choices.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 24, 2006, 3:22 am

Fake or not, it's all true.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 24, 2006, 5:31 am

I sense a liberalgasm coming on.

As a predictably occurring cycle, we're due for a democrat in office in 2008 but that party is so fucked up that a republican might get elected again.

Go back and read the 911 thread. Everyone was screaming bloody murder in the months following that day and Bush did exactly what the people wanted...shook things up in the middle east. He took down the Taliban in Afghanistan and took over the entire country of Iraq. The Middle East isn't a place/region that countries can be occupied or a place that you can do any sort of permanent good, so it's time to go. I'm all for ditching Iraq (and Afghanistan) and watching them slaughter each other in civil war but It's not that simple as oil will always be the determining factor whether you people grasp that or not. The administration is never going to come out and say, "we are at war to protect our oil resources in the Middle East" so you're in for a seriously long whining session if you focus on anything else but that.

We also need to do some damage to Iran first or Iran may just mosey on into Iraq and occupy it themselves.

Oil, oil, oil. We'll be out of there when "our" oil flow is secure. This isn't brain surgery.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » October 24, 2006, 5:47 am

We get it. You're a reactionary, unthinking moron. Just stop posting.

Breagen · Post by **Breagen** » October 24, 2006, 6:31 am

I don't think it is fair to say that Bush followed the will of the people by invading Afghanistan and than Iraq because 'the people' had no actual say in the decisions that brought about those invasions. Just because the most vocal parts of a society advocate taking a certain action doesn't mean that it is the will of the people.

For example if the most vocal members of a society, say Afghanistan, were to endorse the actions taken on 9/11 does that mean that every Afghani supported the terrorist attacks? Of course most people after 9/11 were perfectly happy to condemn an entire nation for the actions of an indeterminate section of the population and believed it would be perfectly legitimate to invade/destroy/nuke an entire country in retribution for 9/11.

What I don't understand is how people can promote this viewpoint yet not see how the are simply doing the exact same thing terrorists do in regards to the United States. Rather than understand that there are many different factions that all have different views on matters they just label all Americans as 'the Great Satan' or whatever works for them and therefore justify their actions. Invading a sovereign nation based on the actions of an indeterminate section of the population is no different despite one being an official military action rather than a terrorist act. The outcome is the same either way, regular people die for no reason.

Did any of the civilians that died in the 9/11 attacks have any direct connection to US interventions in the Middle East? Probably not, they certainly didn't deserve to die in the terror attacks. Have civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq died that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks? Probably, so how is the death of Americans on 9/11 any more tragic than those of civilians in another country? Just because someone speaks a different language or believes in a different religion doesn't make them any less of a human or their death any less tragic; perhaps when people start understanding that there will be less willingness to simply write them off as 'collateral damage.'

As Winnow said in his post, the Middle East is not a place you can simply occupy and therefore change the status quo. While there are certainly portions of the population in that area that will not be reasoned with the answer is not to invade and give more reasons to hate the US but to treat with those that are willing to listen and compromise. If terrorists don't have a powerbase or converts willing to die for their cause they will die out, you don't see bin Laden or other terrorist leaders strapping on bomb vests and killing themselves.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 24, 2006, 6:33 am

Winnow wrote:I sense a liberalgasm coming on.

As a predictably occurring cycle, we're due for a democrat in office in 2008 but that party is so fucked up that a republican might get elected again.

Go back and read the 911 thread. Everyone was screaming bloody murder in the months following that day and Bush did exactly what the people wanted...shook things up in the middle east. He took down the Taliban in Afghanistan and took over the entire country of Iraq. The Middle East isn't a place/region that countries can be occupied or a place that you can do any sort of permanent good, so it's time to go. I'm all for ditching Iraq (and Afghanistan) and watching them slaughter each other in civil war but It's not that simple as oil will always be the determining factor whether you people grasp that or not. The administration is never going to come out and say, "we are at war to protect our oil resources in the Middle East" so you're in for a seriously long whining session if you focus on anything else but that.

We also need to do some damage to Iran first or Iran may just mosey on into Iraq and occupy it themselves.

Oil, oil, oil. We'll be out of there when "our" oil flow is secure. This isn't brain surgery.

By the same rationale you're next going to propose lynching?

Sure, the Bush administration took advantage of public shock to prosecute 2 wars it would never have gotten away with otherwise, but to assume that it was the will of the people that motivated them is just plain naive.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 24, 2006, 9:27 am

I somehow doubt a chain e-mail would be his prefered method of communication when there's a huge media network out there that would be absolutely salivating to cover his remarks.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 24, 2006, 10:58 am

Dregor Thule wrote:I somehow doubt a chain e-mail would be his prefered method of communication when there's a huge media network out there that would be absolutely salivating to cover his remarks.

In addition to being the top story on ESPN last week, I've also seen it on numerous other "reputable" websites. I'm not saying that it's not fake, but it certainly appears more legitimate than most chain emails that people repost after getting in their inbox.

Supposedly originally submitted to truthdig (which I'm not familiar with)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sec ... id=2635872
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2633793

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » October 24, 2006, 11:01 am

It also cracks me up how the rightie "OMG SUPPORT TEH TROOPZ" brigade turn into snarling animals when the actual soldiers call into question the uses to which the armed forces are put.

Of course, as we all know, "support the troops" really means "support the reasons for the latest war". Fuck those dumbass democrat squaddies, rite?

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 24, 2006, 11:27 am

Winnow, I don't think you get it, did you actually read the 9/11 thread you posted?

This is what I got from it, we were hurt, some were scared and we wanted revenge on the people who purpatraited the crime...

And from that you say Bush did what we wanted? Get off the Republican pipe man. Bush did what HE wanted, not what the country wanted.

We wanted revenge on the people who orginized the crime? Bin Laden and group and their Taliban supporter.

Thus we and MOST of the world support the invasion of Afghanistan and what did we get? a pile of shit. Five years later the Taliban control at least half the country, the Gov and some Republicans are saying that we should let them be part of the Afghan Government, Bin Laden is still at large and AlQedia are still planing and comitting attacks...

And WE are stuck in freakin' Iraq getting our assess handed to us because we don't have enough troops there to do the job. Our men and women are dying over there for NOTHING, nothing except for some cooked out reason GWB dreamed up or believes that God told him.

You make that comment about Tilmans brother saying he wasn't religious like that is cool, yet you support a party that is run by the Religious Right, wheither the party likes them or not is another issue, they do get them elected.

So 5 years after 9/11 the world is less safe than it was before, we have less freedoms here in America, our Founding fathers are rolling over in their graves because of them, we have no Bin Laden, we have no success in Iraq or Afghanstan, people are dying daily in Iraq and we are close to an all our Shite / Sunni civil war... not too mention Iran will soon have nukes and North Korea already dose...

The world could have been much better place than the one we have today, and it's GWB and the Republican Congress' who is primarily at fault. The sad thing is the pussy memebers of my party still might loose their elections because they can't show enough balls to the fringe groups to get elected.

Marb

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 24, 2006, 11:30 am

Marbus wrote:And WE are stuck in freakin' Iraq getting our assess handed to us because we don't have enough troops there to do the job.

I don't think there could ever be enough troops on the ground since it is not a job the military was designed to do.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 24, 2006, 12:21 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:I somehow doubt a chain e-mail would be his prefered method of communication when there's a huge media network out there that would be absolutely salivating to cover his remarks.
In addition to being the top story on ESPN last week, I've also seen it on numerous other "reputable" websites. I'm not saying that it's not fake, but it certainly appears more legitimate than most chain emails that people repost after getting in their inbox.

Supposedly originally submitted to truthdig (which I'm not familiar with)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sec ... id=2635872
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2633793

I'm not much of a sports news watcher, so I'll admit being ignorant to it. Are they reporting that the letter is going around, or are they reporting directly from Kevin Tillman?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 24, 2006, 12:34 pm

I'd say whether or not he actually wrote it isn't that big of a deal. It's still true regardless of the author.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 24, 2006, 12:39 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:I somehow doubt a chain e-mail would be his prefered method of communication when there's a huge media network out there that would be absolutely salivating to cover his remarks.
In addition to being the top story on ESPN last week, I've also seen it on numerous other "reputable" websites. I'm not saying that it's not fake, but it certainly appears more legitimate than most chain emails that people repost after getting in their inbox.

Supposedly originally submitted to truthdig (which I'm not familiar with)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sec ... id=2635872
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2633793
I'm not much of a sports news watcher, so I'll admit being ignorant to it. Are they reporting that the letter is going around, or are they reporting directly from Kevin Tillman?

According to what I've read, they're reporting that Kevin Tillman submitted that to the truthdig site, which I'd never heard of before this story. Submitting a letter/essay/whatever you want to call it to one site lends more credence to it, in my opinion, than people receiving a chain forward and posting it to a site and crediting to someone. As to whether or not it was really from Kevin Tillman... I don't know. I'd expect to see an interview or something with him sometime soon if it is.

But yeah, that said, I think most of the things brought up in the "letter" are true regardless of the author.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » October 24, 2006, 1:17 pm

Aslanna wrote:I'd say whether or not he actually wrote it isn't that big of a deal. It's still true regardless of the author.

Well, yeah, of course it's true. But part of the weight of the message is supposed to be that it's from Pat Tillman's brother so it's still a valid question as far as its authenticity.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 24, 2006, 1:56 pm

Marbus wrote: You make that comment about Tilmans brother saying he wasn't religious like that is cool, yet you support a party that is run by the Religious Right, wheither the party likes them or not is another issue, they do get them elected.

It is "cool". People can be "heroes" and not be "with god". I commend his brother for setting things straight. You guys are drooling all over a letter from Kevin Tillman, I demand equal time for his brothers comment. Pat's brother Kevin has a right to speak his mind, but that letter looks like it was generated from the left's propaganda department and didn't come from the heart.

The problem is that those are general reflective remarks and what our government has to do is deal with a crisis in real time. Dealing with specifics is a lot harder than playing the second guessing game. Liberals like Nick are professionals at claiming everything could have been done the opposite and the world would be perfect.

Reality and this moralistic high ground people try to take are very far apart. The U.S., while being the greatest country on the earth, hasn't gotten to this point by being saints. To support our plush lifestyles, we rape the rest of the world (to a lessor extent, so does the rest of the Western World). Deal with it or get ready for a big drop in comfort of living which is probably coming soon anyway.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 24, 2006, 4:21 pm

Win, you are right on in regards to pretty much what you said.

However I'm quite sure that I could have done a better job as President the past 6 years than Bush and I haven't been President of anything since High School Student Council.

Mistake after mistake has been made taking our eye off the real target. I understand the "political" aspect of the middle east and knowing now what we know Bush knew then or rather choose to ignore, we should be in a different position.

Hindsight can be 20/20 but not always, and definitely not with this administartion. They have had numerous instances where they could have looked at history, of our country and others, but choose not to which has lead us to this point.

I may be a liberal but I'm all for kickin' some ass, but I'm also all about kickin' the right ass.

Marb

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 24, 2006, 4:36 pm

Bush DID follow the will of the people and protect America when he invaded Afghanistan. We fucked up in there by not actually staying and rebuilding it. That place is even more of a shithole now, and as we all know poverty can breed fanaticism.

Everything past Afghanistan was based on his cronies desire for profit. Reality took a back seat to fearmongering, half-truths, and flat-out lies.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 24, 2006, 5:59 pm

Damn Masteen, brought a tear to my eye...

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 25, 2006, 1:10 pm

Winnow wrote: You guys are drooling all over a letter from Kevin Tillman, I demand equal time for his brothers comment.

No ones drooling. Stating that some of the points raised in it are accurate are what is now a belief/opinion held by 99.9% of the fucking planet.

To support our plush lifestyles, we rape the rest of the world (to a lessor extent, so does the rest of the Western World). Deal with it or get ready for a big drop in comfort of living which is probably coming soon anyway.

So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 25, 2006, 1:23 pm

Nick wrote:
So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?

My lifestyle certainly hasn't gotten worse. The stock market's at an all time high, gas is down to $2.09 at my local station and dropping, no terrorists attacks in the continental U.S....it's a god damned utopia!

Of course, if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq, gas would now be free and all women would have perfect breasts. I'm sure of it.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 25, 2006, 1:53 pm

He took down the Taliban in Afghanistan

orly?

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 25, 2006, 3:22 pm

Winnow wrote:
Nick wrote:
So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?
My lifestyle certainly hasn't gotten worse. The stock market's at an all time high, gas is down to $2.09 at my local station and dropping, no terrorists attacks in the continental U.S....it's a god damned utopia!

Of course, if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq, gas would now be free and all women would have perfect breasts. I'm sure of it.

so really all thats happened is gas costs more

miir · Post by **miir** » October 25, 2006, 3:31 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Nick wrote:
So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?
My lifestyle certainly hasn't gotten worse. The stock market's at an all time high, gas is down to $2.09 at my local station and dropping, no terrorists attacks in the continental U.S....it's a god damned utopia!

Of course, if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq, gas would now be free and all women would have perfect breasts. I'm sure of it.
so really all thats happened is gas costs more

and some sand niggers died.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » October 25, 2006, 3:34 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Nick wrote:
So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?
My lifestyle certainly hasn't gotten worse. The stock market's at an all time high, gas is down to $2.09 at my local station and dropping, no terrorists attacks in the continental U.S....it's a god damned utopia!

Of course, if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq, gas would now be free and all women would have perfect breasts. I'm sure of it.
so really all thats happened is gas costs more

Well, a bunch of sand niggers and a couple thousand kids who couldn't afford university without the present equivalent of the G.I. bill got offed... but in Winnow's world thats just culling the undesirables: who cares as long as the value of the portfolio grows!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » October 25, 2006, 4:12 pm

Wulfran wrote:
*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Nick wrote:
So how has the situation in Iraq cushioned your plush lifestyle apart from to give you snappy news soundbites for the last 5 years?
My lifestyle certainly hasn't gotten worse. The stock market's at an all time high, gas is down to $2.09 at my local station and dropping, no terrorists attacks in the continental U.S....it's a god damned utopia!

Of course, if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq, gas would now be free and all women would have perfect breasts. I'm sure of it.
so really all thats happened is gas costs more
Well, a bunch of sand niggers and a couple thousand kids who couldn't afford university without the present equivalent of the G.I. bill got offed... but in Winnow's world thats just culling the undesirables: who cares as long as the value of the portfolio grows!

Yeah God forbid you join the military and you might have to go to war.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 25, 2006, 4:43 pm

Cartalas wrote:Yeah God forbid you join the military and you might have to go to war.

I'm sure that most people who join the military understand that they might have to go to war. They can still disagree with what they're going to war for. Maybe not in a way that can be construed as insubordination, but you can still disagree with it.

Let's look at it a different way, shall we? How about if you're a firefighter and you know that you're going to have to go into burning buildings to rescue children and spray flames and whatnot. I think it's still reasonable to assume that the fire chief isn't going to be starting the fires, fanning the flames, and then expect you to go in there without any of your flame-retardant gear on. And if he were, I think you'd be absolutely in the right to question why he'd do something like that.

Or if we wanted it to hit you a little closer to home, let's just pretend that you're a janitor at a fast food restaurant. If some punk kid comes in and takes a shit on the bathroom floor, you're expected to go in there and get to work with your scrubbin' bubbles. If your manager is in there dropping steamy links and then calling you in to take care of them, you might ask him wtf is going on.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 25, 2006, 4:55 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Yeah God forbid you join the military and you might have to go to war.
I'm sure that most people who join the military understand that they might have to go to war. They can still disagree with what they're going to war for. Maybe not in a way that can be construed as insubordination, but you can still disagree with it.

Let's look at it a different way, shall we? How about if you're a firefighter and you know that you're going to have to go into burning buildings to rescue children and spray flames and whatnot. I think it's still reasonable to assume that the fire chief isn't going to be starting the fires, fanning the flames, and then expect you to go in there without any of your flame-retardant gear on. And if he were, I think you'd be absolutely in the right to question why he'd do something like that.

Or if we wanted it to hit you a little closer to home, let's just pretend that you're a janitor at a fast food restaurant. If some punk kid comes in and takes a shit on the bathroom floor, you're expected to go in there and get to work with your scrubbin' bubbles. If your manager is in there dropping steamy links and then calling you in to take care of them, you might ask him wtf is going on.

I don't agree. By joining the millitary you are giving up your rights. What you think/want does not matter. You do what you are told and that is IT, that is your job. And everyone I know that has done well and brought something out of the experience has thought exactly that.

You might not necessarily like it, but you shut your fucking trap and do it anyhow, or you shouldn't have joined the millitary.

Breagen · Post by **Breagen** » October 25, 2006, 5:10 pm

So by that logic if your commander ordered a platoon to line up a village and machine gun them down soldiers should shut their traps and do it?

That type of blind obedience leads to the type of corrupt military regimes that have held power in places like Nicaragua and Argentina in the past. No one is saying that soldiers should be practicing insubordination, but there is a big difference between following any orders you are given and questioning orders that go against the spirit of the country you are serving.

If you look at some of the greatest military leaders of the past, you will see that many of them were mavericks that did not simply toe the line their entire careers, the ones that did become the desk jockeys and paper pushers because they have no drive or ingenuity of their own.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 25, 2006, 10:16 pm

People join the military to defend their country, not invade nations that have done them no wrong in order to set up a massive flow of taxpayer money to the corporation that has the current vice president on their payroll.

Wulfran wrote:Well, a bunch of sand niggers and a couple thousand kids who couldn't afford university without the present equivalent of the G.I. bill got offed... but in Winnow's world thats just culling the undesirables: who cares as long as the value of the portfolio grows!

Winnow can't afford his own video games and DVD's. You think he has a portfolio? The closest thing he has to a portfolio is a manila envelope filled with asian child pornography.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 25, 2006, 11:03 pm

Do you have some sort of fantasy about seeing me sleep with Asian children?

kooky!

Picture this...you're at the curb on a rainy night 40 years from now...waiting for the valet to return with your brand new 2047 Honda Civic which you're quite proud of. In your old age, you see some headlights through the rain approaching. Thinking it's your car, you wave, but the car only veers close enough to the curb for the tires splash you with gutter water. As you wipe your eyes of muddy water, you see the license plate that reads, "Winnow 1" on the back of the stretch limo that soiled your outfit. You barely make out an old man standing up through the open limo skylight with one of your twin granddaughters in each arm, laughing and giving you the bird.

A trailing SUV stops. A man gets out and gives you some money and a coupon for a free tank of gas, apologizing on behalf of Halliburton petroleum and energy industries.

All if this because I wisely invested the money saved by downloading extra multimedia beyond a monthly budget for such purchases.

-----
Ah, more entertaining than the standard pedo accusations eh!?!!1?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 25, 2006, 11:38 pm

wow, you just blew right passed the line and became the most fucked up person I have ever witnessed.

Congrats, I guess...

I'd hate to be around when your delusions collide with reality.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 25, 2006, 11:49 pm

please truant. oh yeah, I was dead serious!

I guess pedo accusation fantasies are the only acceptable flames on this board.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 25, 2006, 11:52 pm

Winnow wrote:please truant. oh yeah, I was dead serious!

I guess pedo accusation fantasies are the only acceptable flames on this board.

I wasn't even considering that you might be serious.

I was bothered by the amount of effort and thought you put into that retarded 2nd grade fantasy come back.

and if it required very little/no effort or thought...well that's even more troubling.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 26, 2006, 2:23 am

Most career losers have over active and grandiose fantasies where they are opposite of their normally socially repugnant selves.

Now combine that with winnow's creepy taste for underage looking girls and insipid personality and you have a fucking breeding ground for episodes like this. he probably lays in bed and night and jerks off while fantasizing about one day 'getting back at her and all those other bitches' that constantly emasculate him every time he opens his cum hole.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 26, 2006, 2:44 am

kyoukan wrote:Most career losers have over active and grandiose fantasies where they are opposite of their normally socially repugnant selves.

Now combine that with winnow's creepy taste for underage looking girls and insipid personality and you have a fucking breeding ground for episodes like this. he probably lays in bed and night and jerks off while fantasizing about one day 'getting back at her and all those other bitches' that constantly emasculate him every time he opens his cum hole.

That's hardly fair, all men do that!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 26, 2006, 3:51 am

That's hardly fair, all men do that!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 26, 2006, 4:08 am

Wow, kyoukan's trying to flame me for being normal.

Look out! Here comes the fantasy police! I've never seen a person so obsessed with what I might fantasize about.

Here's a tip for you. Next time your hubby is handing out your weekly allowance, make sure the bathroom and kitchen are clean, and then try the sob routine on him...maybe he swings you a few extra bones so you can buy "Net Flamer, Volume Two: Beyond the Pedo Flames" along with your game or movie the week. You're a hard working woman. You deserve it!

You can always add it to your torrent queue and maybe ask the VVers to help out again in your time of torrent need.

*insert Office Space dream sequence with Lumbergh holding up womans legs, drinking a cup of coffee, asking Peter about the TPS reports*

It's what I'm fantasizing about right this minute!

Winnow
-pedoflamed,

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 26, 2006, 4:17 am

holy fucking christ; my grandmother dying was funnier than that.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 26, 2006, 9:49 am

its fun to pretend

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 26, 2006, 11:34 am

Is it just me, or am I the only one who remembers Winnow trying to pick up a 17 year old over eq. I might be mistaken, but I thought that it was Winnow.

Oh yeah, btw, what are the fashion trends for Japanese girls? (lol)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 26, 2006, 2:06 pm

Zamtuk wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who remembers Winnow trying to pick up a 17 year old over eq. I might be mistaken, but I thought that it was Winnow.

Yeah, she's in my basement putting the lotion on. I wanted to dress her up in the latest fashions. That's why I asked about the Japanese fashion trends.

That info's about as accurate as your knowledge of MP3 players Zamtuk.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 26, 2006, 4:03 pm

burn?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 26, 2006, 11:38 pm

17? Put some adult diapers on that grandmother. Were talking about Winnow here.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 27, 2006, 7:00 pm

this thread is now for flames kyoukan i challenge you to a flame off cadalano can be wilmer valdarrnaomo like on that shit mtv show

kyoukan your cooking tastes like shit and you look like a dumb old maid in an apron i hope an anvil falls on your stupid face

Al · Post by Al » October 28, 2006, 2:33 am

Stragi smells like a wet dog even when it isn't raining!