I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » August 4, 2006, 2:05 pm

I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map or such?

In general, do any of you want every citizen of that country to be killed/deported somewhere else and return the land to pre-1948 boundaries?

I'm not trying to bait you for a fight or such, just what is your base stance on this ?

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » August 4, 2006, 2:07 pm

What's been done has been done....I don't want anyone wiped off the face of the earth, but if we had a time machine to go back to 1948...I'd say NOT creating Israel would make the world a better place today.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 4, 2006, 2:13 pm

I'd be very happy to move all of Israel somewhere else... Wyoming would be my personal pick...

I'm definitely not for a country/civilization being wiped off the map, but I'd much prefer to stand on the other side of the ocean and watch a bunch of warlords kill each other instead of them being united against a common enemy that the US just happens to be backing militarily.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » August 4, 2006, 2:18 pm

Of course i dont want the israelites wiped out, but taking away someone elses land to place a new nation there, and then majorly arming them and allowing them to have more or less constant skirmishes and border fights with the neighbours who had their land taken in the first place, was a pretty bad idea.

Take a part of Germany, they started the war that lead to Israels creation, then can give land to them. The germans probably wont be happy, but imo its a hell of a lot more fair to let a country that started a world war and tried to eradicate all jews, give the land to house them afterwards.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 4, 2006, 3:26 pm

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » August 4, 2006, 3:43 pm

Hesten wrote:Take a part of Germany, they started the war that lead to Israels creation, then can give land to them. The germans probably wont be happy, but imo its a hell of a lot more fair to let a country that started a world war and tried to eradicate all jews, give the land to house them afterwards.

yes, because punishing the germans worked so well in the past, and it certainly didn't have any part in WWII.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 4, 2006, 3:51 pm

The wyoming idea sounds pretty spot on. They basically get what they want from the US anyhow, just transplant the fuckers to some obscure western state where their asshatery would go largely unnoticed (it works for mormons in Nevada!) and let the psychotic ones get jihadded to death in a week in Israel.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 4, 2006, 4:10 pm

That's exactly my thinking by the way. Wyoming has a lot of unused land, and they'll no longer be a problem in the middle east.

/sarcastic bullshit:
We can make up some bullshit about Devil's tower being where God lives and they'll be happy as can be. We can let them live on 'reservations' and with any luck they'll build us some nice casinos.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 4, 2006, 4:14 pm

Jice Virago wrote: (it works for mormons in Nevada!)

There's a bunch of mormans in Nevada but their main haunt is Utah! (unless you're referring to the debauchery that takes place in Nevada as opposed to Utah!)

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » August 4, 2006, 4:14 pm

Nah, we don't want to take the land from Germany... we should take it from France and the US and UK should foot the bill to move everyone.

Hitler would have been a literally starving artist if it haddn't been for the Treaty of Versi at which the UK and the US let pussified France impose rules and sanctions on Germany that should have never been allowed...

The "other" issue is that in the first half of this century many Europeans and Americans were huge anti-simites. No one wanted the Jews in their country. Hell Henry Ford wouldn't hire them and the US Government even put out a publication in the 1950s, yes after we helped create Israel, with very anti-simitic propaganda in it. IMHO the creation of Israel did more for the European leaders than provide some retribution for the ways the jews were treated by the Nazi's (note that not all Germans were Nazis) but it also got "them" out of their hair.

Lets also realize that while we are making fun of Mel Gibson, the stance of the Catholic Church up until a recent time in history (was probably before Vatican 2 but not much before and many lay people still believe this way) was the the Jews killed Jesus. Of course the more learned Christian understand that it had to happen and it was all part of God's plan etc... but those of the more ignorant intellect still hold to those ideas right now. It was only duing the past 150 years that mainstream Christians, focusing a lot more on the Old Testament and Prophcey became "Jew Friendly" in a sense. Now many hope that with Israel as a nation, if you take Revelation literally, the end of the world can happen...

Me? I can see why it was created but I also see all the issues it has created. The middle east wasn't necessarly the most peaceful place but it was a hell of a lot better before 1948... but it's not jsut Israel to blame for that. It's the US and the UK in our fight against Communism that has caused a lot of the issues as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that some people aren't freakin' nuts there but damnit we have our fair share too. For too many years America and American's could justify just about anything if it stopped them damn commie bastards! In then end of course stopping communism had little to do with us (sorry Reagan freaks, he did play a small part at the end I guess) and more with human greed an corruption. Ultimate power corrupts and most communist nations were little more than dictatorships... our problem was that we were willing to support individuls who so blatently stood against everything America is suppose to stand for that we lost a lot of credibility... and made a lot of enemies.

As I have said I have friends in Israel right now, I pray that are safe and there is not going back. However it might have been better if we had given them part of France, Canada, Wyoming, Florida, the Virgin Islands etc... rather than the Holy Land... of course many strongly believe that God gave them that land through divine providence... many use to also believe in the Divine right of Kings as well... but I guess that is another post. I believe God did give them that land, the land flowing with Milk and Honey... God also instructed them to do a few simple things to keep it, they didn't and 10 tribes were lost along with Northern Israel... then they kept not following his prophets and ended up loosing the rest of it to Rome. While I do believe I have direct access to God through prayer as a Christian, I do not kid myself into believing that I always know His will... perhaps it was the spirit the spurd the Allies to create Israel... or perhaps it was just the will of men to get people they didn't like out of their hair playing along with other men who wanted to try and control God's will to hasten the end... who knows...

What I do know for certian is that there are serious issues over in the Middle East and this administration has done nothing to help the situation since inception except for removing the Taliban and even that wasn't all good. Since we have given Israel most of their weapons and hold the keys to keeping those running, it really does now fall to us, their closest ally to push for peace... not because it's God's will and could start the 3.5 years of peace before the battle of Megiddo... perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't... but because taking care of one another and valuing life is definitely God will and the right thing for Humanity even if you don't believe.

Marb

Neost · Post by **Neost** » August 4, 2006, 6:11 pm

I'm not taking one side or the other. I don't care really.

But step back a second. It isn't like there were no Jews in the Middle East until 1948 and then all of a sudden several million just plopped down in the area now known as Israel and started shooing Muslims out.

Jews have a history in that land as old as any others and I think sometimes people forget that.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 4, 2006, 7:53 pm

Neost wrote:I'm not taking one side or the other. I don't care really.

But step back a second. It isn't like there were no Jews in the Middle East until 1948 and then all of a sudden several million just plopped down in the area now known as Israel and started shooing Muslims out.

Jews have a history in that land as old as any others and I think sometimes people forget that.

Oh, we know. They had to be there so they could kill Christ

Doesn't mean we don't think they'd be better off anywhere that they had less history but were more welcome. Perhaps they could take over a strip between the US and Mexico; they'd be a bunch better at keeping the Mexicans out than ya'll are.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » August 4, 2006, 8:07 pm

Neost is right there were tons of Jews in the area, just like Arabs it's just that people were forced to leave certian areas. However lets also remember than when Israel was created so was Palistine but they couldn't hold up and lost their independence to Israel, Syria and Jordan. Perhaps that would have made a difference.

Me personally I really could give a rat's ass about someone's ethnic background except for how meaningfult it is to them. If it is important to them, then it is to me and so be it. Otherwise I really try to see us as all being in this together... which is often hard to do in this world of Zealots.

Marb

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » August 4, 2006, 8:18 pm

No, I don't want Israel wiped off the map.

Moving all the Israeli's to Wyoming or Germany or whatever sounds great in theory. Moving all the Palestinians to Kazakhstan or Turkey or Iran or France sounds great in theory too, why don't you try suggesting it to them and see how receptive they are to the idea?

If the debacle of Israel has taught us anything, it should be that you can't go up to a large, entrenched population of people and tell them 'ok, you're moving to this place, your land belongs to someone else now.' That is as true for Israel as it was for Palestine and it's not a mistake we should make again.

The bottom line is that both the Israelis and the Palestinians will be there until someone gets wiped out or they both learn to co-exist. It's not like Middle Eastern countries aren't capable of dealing with diverse populations; look at Lebanon or the United Arab Emirates. It might take a lot of pain and time and struggle to get to that point, but it's the only option that has even a chance in hell of succeeding. Moving all the Jews to Wyoming does not.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 4, 2006, 8:35 pm

Sueven wrote:It's not like Middle Eastern countries aren't capable of dealing with diverse populations; look at Lebanon or the United Arab Emirates.

Or Iraq..

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 4, 2006, 9:13 pm

Yes Adex, all us liebrals want Israel wiped off the map; because were secretly all terrorists. YOU KNEW IT ALL ALONG

Is that want you wanted to hear? Now can you go the fuck away again?

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » August 5, 2006, 2:07 am

As I mentioned in another thread... Lets start another Crusade and just end the isreal problem once-and-for-all. well maybe not... just be christians blowin shit up instead...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 5, 2006, 8:46 am

Zaelath wrote:
Sueven wrote:It's not like Middle Eastern countries aren't capable of dealing with diverse populations; look at Lebanon or the United Arab Emirates.
Or Iraq..

Best joke ever!

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 5, 2006, 10:12 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:In general, do any of you want every citizen of that country to be killed/deported somewhere else and return the land to pre-1948 boundaries?

No. I'm on the side of the Jews here. They have every right to exist even if it means displacing a less capable people.

Think of it as evolution in action.

(Bonus points to whomever remembers the book/author who originated that last line. It's not original to me.)

On a second note, if you were going to displace the Jews it wouldn't be so much where you would let them settle, they already own much of New York, why wouldn't they just evict enough non-Jews to make room for their Israeli brethren?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » August 5, 2006, 12:20 pm

Metanis wrote: Think of it as evolution in action.

(Bonus points to whomever remembers the book/author who originated that last line. It's not original to me.)

The Wannsee Protocol?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 5, 2006, 3:00 pm

I thought evolution was just evidence planted by God in order to test the faith of christians?

I really think you are one of the last people who should be talking about natural selection. Without a civilized society, people like you wouldn't have made it beyond age 5.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 5, 2006, 9:09 pm

so says the girl who would be number 1 on just about everyone's list if murder were made legal tomorrow

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 5, 2006, 9:47 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:so says the girl who would be number 1 on just about everyone's list if murder were made legal tomorrow

OMG IRLPK!!1

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 5, 2006, 10:00 pm

Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 5, 2006, 10:55 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:so says the girl who would be number 1 on just about everyone's list if murder were made legal tomorrow

You're missing the point of natural selection. The stronger overcome the weaker. Being a loudmouth faggot doesn't give you an edge even over a 5 foot tall girl.

I'm sure your fellow loudmouth faggot boyfriends think you're pretty hardcore for posting that. However people like you are about as intimidating as sweetly retarded children.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 6, 2006, 12:30 am

Canelek wrote:Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!

At least Jesus can keep a job and spell about.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 7, 2006, 12:34 am

Cartalas wrote:
Canelek wrote:Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!
At least Jesus can keep a job and spell about.

WTF are you talking aboat(1)? My Taco Bell* job is holding up just fine. Where do you work, scooter?

* - Yeah...

(1) - Can I not give props to my peeps from Manitoba and westward?

PS: You are not worthy to serve as a speaker stand in my living room. Any of you other sots want to jump in? The water ain't so deep here, so yalls won't a-be drownin'.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 7, 2006, 10:15 am

Canelek wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Canelek wrote:Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!
At least Jesus can keep a job and spell about.
WTF are you talking aboat(1)? My Taco Bell* job is holding up just fine. Where do you work, scooter?

* - Yeah...

(1) - Can I not give props to my peeps from Manitoba and westward?

PS: You are not worthy to serve as a speaker stand in my living room. Any of you other sots want to jump in? The water ain't so deep here, so yalls won't a-be drownin'.

Keep it up welfare boy.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 7, 2006, 10:38 am

kyoukan wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:so says the girl who would be number 1 on just about everyone's list if murder were made legal tomorrow
You're missing the point of natural selection. The stronger overcome the weaker. Being a loudmouth faggot doesn't give you an edge even over a 5 foot tall girl.

I'm sure your fellow loudmouth faggot boyfriends think you're pretty hardcore for posting that. However people like you are about as intimidating as sweetly retarded children.

What part of being an obnoxious cunt makes you think you are stronger than anyone? The sad fact is that most 12 year olds would eliminate your ass from existence if that was the way things were allowed to work.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 7, 2006, 2:24 pm

No, you see I basically already said that. You can't just repeat it back to me. I have a fucking parrot that is more oriignal than that.

You could have replied with "Yeah, well fuck you!" and come off looking more original.

The simple fact of the matter is that people like me were put on this earth to be better than people like you. If humans ate other humans, you'd be my dinner. Well, probably lunch, and you'd probably not taste very good, but I'm sure even someone of your mental caliber grasps my point. I am a have, and you are a particularly obnoxious version of a have not.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 7, 2006, 2:35 pm

Being a loudmouth faggot doesn't give you an edge

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 7, 2006, 4:25 pm

Oh...I see now. You are like a puffer fish. The only difference is you use the intarweb to blow up and make like you are something not to be messed with. Frightening....no really.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 7, 2006, 4:28 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Oh...I see now. You are like a puffer fish. The only difference is you use the intarweb to blow up and make like you are something not to be messed with. Frightening....no really.

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:so says the girl who would be number 1 on just about everyone's list if murder were made legal tomorrow

oic

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 7, 2006, 7:35 pm

kyoukan wrote:No, you see I basically already said that. You can't just repeat it back to me. I have a fucking parrot that is more oriignal than that.

You could have replied with "Yeah, well fuck you!" and come off looking more original.

The simple fact of the matter is that people like me were put on this earth to be better than people like you. If humans ate other humans, you'd be my dinner. Well, probably lunch, and you'd probably not taste very good, but I'm sure even someone of your mental caliber grasps my point. I am a have, and you are a particularly obnoxious version of a have not.

When I flush I think of you sweetie

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 7, 2006, 7:44 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Canelek wrote:Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!
At least Jesus can keep a job and spell about.

protip: jesus is dead and you shouldn't be harping on people's spelling.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 7, 2006, 11:29 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Canelek wrote:Where is that fucking Jesus with his flaming sword of dominion when you need him, eh? He was a like a battle-pacifist back in the oldtimey days of sheep fucking and battle-romp-jamborees! Yes, send them the fucking Jesus! Wooo! He will end this mess and straighten them all out good and proper!
At least Jesus can keep a job and spell about.
protip: jesus is dead and you shouldn't be harping on people's spelling.

Thanks for the tip.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 9, 2006, 1:07 am

Shall I add a [sic] to everything or will you adapt, given enough time? I suppose Darwin's laws even apply to the helmet-wearing genre...

Listen kid, you can throw around welfare, jobless or unemployable (or any other term regarding such a state) as much as you want as well as post nonsensical images that you and your 3 or so pals can giggle over while being pretty much simultaneously berated by the vast majority of VV denizens.

It is good for the overall chemistry of such a message board that there are indeed some folks like you that enjoy such beratement despite the 'secret handshake' between those fellows of your odd and somewhat sad viewpoint. (Yes, Midnight-with-a-y, I am packaging you with said sillypersons.)

I am curious though--what exactly is it that you do for a living, if I am wrong in my assumptions of your youth?

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » August 10, 2006, 12:01 am

Neost wrote:But step back a second. It isn't like there were no Jews in the Middle East until 1948 and then all of a sudden several million just plopped down in the area now known as Israel and started shooing Muslims out.

Actually that is pretty much what happened. The mass immigration started in the early 1900s, not 1948.

You can Google this if you want but from memory:
-There were almost no Jews there before 1900; they started immigrating in the early 1900s. The local population was small and primitive.
-Some British dude (governor type) promised the Jews land ~1920 but failed to make good on the promise.
-Jewish immigration accelerated up through the 30s.
-We create Israel; piss off the locals and war starts.
-People flee from the fighting, much like you see in Lebanon today.
-Jews defend themselves and grab a large chunk of "Palestine" in the process. Jordan takes over the rest of "Palestine".
-Jews refuse to allow those that fled to come back to their homes.
-Influx of Jews (mostly Russian I believe) from around the globe. (I've never really bought the whole ancestral right to the land thing when there are so many converts).
-1967 and more land grabbed.
-Settlements established in occupied land for further land grabbage.

As for Adex's question, while I think it was wrong to create Israel in the way we did the damage has been done. It is also unrealistic to go back to the original Israel\Palestine borders. I think the right thing to do now is enforce 1967 borders, scrap ALL the illegal settlements that were established since then, settle all the refugees still waiting on their "right to return" in the Gaza\West Bank with compensation for their land lost, ensure a viable link between Gaza and the West Bank, and a joint capital of Jerusalem.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 10, 2006, 6:40 pm

I think we shoudl let Israel know that it can do whatever it wishes and that we hope it has good luck. Let them dominate the entire middle east and then sell us oil. I would rather deal with Israelis than the Saudi Royal Family. No one but us could have a reasonable chance of stopping them, and they have a history as an oppressed group. I realize this is silly but, it matters fuck all what we think, Israel CAN dominate the middle east.

I just think they might become the evil that most led to their creation.

VeeshanVault

I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map?

I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map?

Re: I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map?

Re: I'm curious, do any of you want Israel wiped of the map?