Politicians + Religion = Shit

What do you think about the world?
User avatar
noel
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 10003
Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Calabasas, CA

Politicians + Religion = Shit

Post by noel »

Bush vetos stem cell bill.

Fuck him. I hope he comes down with a terminal disease, and just as he's about to die from it, someone realizes that stem cell research would have saved his life. Fuck him, fuck the religious assholes that are driving this, and fuck anyone that stands in the way of science helping people.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27721
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

This is pretty straight forward playing to the fundy voter base for the republicans.

I think everyone knows that and the states will approve their own stem cell research.

As soon as the war ends around 2020, things will settle and we can get a democrat back in office to begin the cycle again.
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Politicians + Religion = Shit

Post by dibit_eq »

noel wrote:I hope he comes down with a terminal disease

Well, he'll have the money made from this war to be one of the very few Americans to afford the cure that China or Singapore will have produced over the next year or so.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

/sigh
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Politicians + Religion = Shit

Post by Metanis »

noel wrote:Bush vetos stem cell bill.

Fuck him. I hope he comes down with a terminal disease, and just as he's about to die from it, someone realizes that stem cell research would have saved his life. Fuck him, fuck the religious assholes that are driving this, and fuck anyone that stands in the way of science helping people.
This would be because of course there are no ethical considerations and smart young ?men? like yourself have all the answers?
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

They are ethical if you are a retard who believes in a particular religion.

In the real world nobody else gives a fuck.

It's not like they are cutting up newlyborn bouncing baby toddlers just for a joke you moron. If you had any ethical standard, which you don't, given your posting history, you would realise more good would ever come from this and the only people who believe any harm AT ALL would come from it are zealouts like yourself.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

The US is about a decade behind first world nations in stem cell research anyway, so it's not really a very big loss.

I love it when neocon armchair generals start talking about fucking ethics like they even know what that word means.
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by dibit_eq »

Great wisdom doesn't always come with age. The fact is other nations ARE working on increased genetic/stem cell research. The applications of that very research can be implemented for both cures and weapons. America might be willing to ignore such technologies due to ethical concerns, but is that exactly wise?

Will every other nation in the world mind unleashing their custom-made american-b-gone plague? With knowledge comes the potential to counter future threats, both natural and man-made.

I do agree that some ethical concerns exist via the whole "pro-abortion to gather stem cells" issue, but that isn't the only way to obtain stem cells. Every child born has a nice umbilical cord that contains stem cells. I dont think there's anything overly sacred for the umbilical cord in any religion. There shouldn't be any more concern with stem cell research than there is with nuclear weapons development.
User avatar
masteen
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8197
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by masteen »

Umbilical stem cells are about 10% as useful as fetal.

This is what pisses me off the most: the "fetuses" that would provide these cells ARE GOING TO BE DESTROYED IF WE DON'T USE THEM. What fucking ethical concern prevents us from turning medical waste into the most useful material medical science has discovered in the last 1000 years? These little clusters of cells ARE NOT BABIES. They will never BE babies.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Jice Virago
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1644
Joined: July 4, 2002, 5:47 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: quyrean
Location: Orange County

Post by Jice Virago »

This administration has never let anything resembling unbiased fact have any impact on policy making. Why should science, the biggest enemy of the fundies, be any exception? Tin foil hat theories aside, it is a financial, social, and logistical mistake to let the rest of the world gain this much of a lead in what is the greatest branch of research in modern medicine. More than any other bone head policy decision these twats have made, this one will have long term consequences on our future.

This shit pisses me off more than the pledge of allegiance bullshit. Just put the fucking swastica on our flag and get it over with already.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Dwight Eisenhower
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by dibit_eq »

Yeah, but people hate abortions. So much so that they refuse to allow any good to come from them.

I just went into the second page on the link. I never realized that people out there were so outraged about abortions that they adopted embryo's. I found that entertaining. "Snowflake babies" they're being called. Weird people...
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

I was taught to stop and look both ways before crossing a street or highway. That's all this action amounts to.

On a side note, the hate and hostility of the liberal mindset continues to entertain me. It's lucky for my kind that you libs are free of the mitigating influence of testosterone.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

Sorry just because you are a fucking muppet doesn't exclude the fact every male has testosterone. Just because you were taught to look both ways before crossing a road doesn't mean you should be a retard when it comes to developing life saving treatments or medicines at the expense of already dead babies (and calling them babies is generous semantics).

The hostility stems from the fact you have no fucking clue what you're talking about whilst acting as if you're some pious intellectual when everyone except morons like Midnyte and Kilmoll long ago recognised there wasn't even the tiniest semblance of logic in any argument you have ever brought here.

Pretty straightforward huh?

Do us all a favour and dont bother looking both ways next time.
Hesten
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2620
Joined: April 29, 2003, 3:50 pm

Post by Hesten »

Just out of curiocity, how does the americans feel about organ donations?
As far as i can see, its exactly the same, one part, which either willingly (in case like kidney donations to family members) give up an organ, or decide that after hes dead give up his organs to help others?

What is the big difference between growing stem cells in a lab, or use medical waste (sorry, but thats what it is, even IF you do believe in souls or the afterlife, AND you believe that those potentially unborn babies have a soul, its gone by then, right) to hlep people, or people after they die choose to give up medical waste (aka organs) to help people?
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich"
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

This just seemed really on-topic.

from http://www.sinfest.net
Image
Apostate
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 58
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:52 pm

Post by Apostate »

Metanis wrote:I was taught to stop and look both ways before crossing a street or highway. That's all this action amounts to.

On a side note, the hate and hostility of the liberal mindset continues to entertain me. It's lucky for my kind that you libs are free of the mitigating influence of testosterone.
Would you also wait for the stop light to turn if you had your kid bleeding to death in the seat next to you?

Well, I got to watch someone I cared about go from being a vibrant, intelligent person to a helpless, incoherant invalid, eradicated by parkinson's, which most likely which will be cureable with stem cell research.

So yeah, go fuck yourself about caution and care.
User avatar
Kylere
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3354
Joined: July 3, 2002, 6:26 pm
Location: Flint, Michigan

Post by Kylere »

I am glad we did not decide researching the atomic bomb was unethical, because frankly, I am an American. I might feel diff otherwise but I am.

I think it is also foolish to have these restrictions, once the genie is out of the bottle, trying to put our heads in the sand ( mixed metaphors, woo) is silly.

We should be leading this research, but honeslty the fact that we are not ais interesting in terms of drug import laws. I want to see what happens the first time the FDA or the DEA tells people they cannot have a life saving drug because it was developed against the wishes of the religious right.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

Metanis, what is your stance on stem cell research and what ethical concerns are there that result in your (apparant) feeling that Bush's first veto in his Presidency is a wise choice?

Please make sure to base it on fact and sincerity so you don't come off as the usual moronic asshole that you are and maybe someone will take your point seriously (.....maybe).
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Post by Zaelath »

Nick wrote:Metanis, what is your stance on stem cell research and what ethical concerns are there that result in your (apparant) feeling that Bush's first veto in his Presidency is a wise choice?

Please make sure to base it on fact and sincerity so you don't come off as the usual moronic asshole that you are and maybe someone will take your point seriously (.....maybe).
I think it's too little too late. It's the only thing he's actually done that rewards the faith the religious right has put into his presidency. Votes don't get you as much payback as hard cash though. Sucks for them.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Post by Fairweather Pure »

The petiness of politicians will only cause detours. They will never be roadblocks. Science will always prevail.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Apostate wrote:
Metanis wrote:I was taught to stop and look both ways before crossing a street or highway. That's all this action amounts to.

On a side note, the hate and hostility of the liberal mindset continues to entertain me. It's lucky for my kind that you libs are free of the mitigating influence of testosterone.
Would you also wait for the stop light to turn if you had your kid bleeding to death in the seat next to you?

Well, I got to watch someone I cared about go from being a vibrant, intelligent person to a helpless, incoherant invalid, eradicated by parkinson's, which most likely which will be cureable with stem cell research.

So yeah, go fuck yourself about caution and care.
So I run the red light and have an accident and kill someone else's kid. Where's your ethical solution there? In other words, your attempt at analogy fails miserably. It doesn't pertain to this argument.

What do you want to say about expediency? I won't argue that Stem Cell Research has great potential. I will argue that human beings are prone to ethical lapses. I will also argue that the human race and the human condition have survived for many millennia, what's a few more years to debate the sanctity of life itself?

Many of you won't understand this, but to those of us with religious beliefs, we belong to God first. The tissue you deem as junk doesn't belong to us! No amount of arguments regarding the possible beneficial use of stem cells changes the basic fact that we are treading on God's territory.

I was trained in science and math and I tend to believe that God intended for people to advance in all areas of understanding and endeavor. However, when we approach boundries and the lines get blurry then I would prefer that we err on the side of Divinity rather than Humanity. (Humanity has a history of poor decision making after all!)

I think it's also important to differentiate what President Bush vetoed today. He only stopped a bill that would have REQUIRED the H&HS Department to perform and support Stem Cell Research. This has no impact on any existing research and it has no impact on private research. If you don't believe me then do what I did, go read the language of the bill. Nothing is different at the end of the day. If you and a bunch of your buddies want to contribute to stem cell research you are perfectly free to do it. Bush is not allowing increased federal dollars to be spent. No restrictions to current stuff, just no new federal initiatives.

A government "of the people, by the people, for the people" means that even the religious voices need to be heard and respected when they speak in unison. The voices represent a minority and I'm sure they will not hold sway for long but we have a representative government so that the will of the people sometimes is delayed by the convictions of the dedicated.

Finally Apostate, you feel it's fine to tell me to fuck off? My estimation of you was too high by far. I'm sorry for that mistake.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Metanis wrote:This has no impact on any existing research and it has no impact on private research. If you don't believe me then do what I did, go read the language of the bill. Nothing is different at the end of the day.
Great point, fuckhead. Nothing is different because the bill GOT FUCKING VETOED.

Your biggest weakness when you try to argue something is you assume everyone is as dumb as you. What I ate for dinner tonight was smarter than you; and it is quite possible that when my digestive system finishes with it, it will still be smarter than you.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

kyoukan wrote:
Metanis wrote:This has no impact on any existing research and it has no impact on private research. If you don't believe me then do what I did, go read the language of the bill. Nothing is different at the end of the day.
Great point, fuckhead. Nothing is different because the bill GOT FUCKING VETOED.

Your biggest weakness when you try to argue something is you assume everyone is as dumb as you. What I ate for dinner tonight was smarter than you; and it is quite possible that when my digestive system finishes with it, it will still be smarter than you.
I do apologize that I forget how many people here such as yourself are stuck in a Communist mind set.

Nothing in nature or in history states that the Government is mandatory in scientific research. If you want stem cell research then form a group and do it. Why does the government have to hold your hand? Are you folks so blind that you fail to realize this is largely a free society? Or don't you believe your own marketing campaigns?

JUST DO IT!

(So you have actually answered your own question. I tend to think you are more intelligent than you actually are and I then abbreviate my arguments when I should start with a grade school primer.)
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

A communist mind set?

What planet are you on?

How can you call someone a communist whilst lumping them in with capitalistic slogan merchants like Nike? It really is beyond the pale.

Do you still not realise how fucking retarded you sound?
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by dibit_eq »

Actually, I'd say many of the people in this board are making more capitalistic arguements towards the governments lack of research. I figure you'll argue it, but here's my view:

Parts we'll likely agree on:

- People pay taxes to a government.

- The government owes its citizens both rights and protections.


The possibly less agreeable parts:

- Other countries ARE involving themselves in research into various new technologies that can be used for healing and harming people.

- Americans could be those targeted by such harmful technologies



And lastly, my opinion:

- I feel my government should engage in protective measures by discovering as much as possible in this field of study.


Now feel free to dismantle the arguement and call me communist.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Metanis wrote:Nothing in nature or in history states that the Government is mandatory in scientific research.
care to elaborate on what in nature and history state that government is supposed to do?

this will be funny.
User avatar
Akanae
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 290
Joined: September 20, 2002, 12:40 am

Post by Akanae »

dibit_eq wrote:Yeah, but people hate abortions. So much so that they refuse to allow any good to come from them.

I just went into the second page on the link. I never realized that people out there were so outraged about abortions that they adopted embryo's. I found that entertaining. "Snowflake babies" they're being called. Weird people...
I would use the word psycho instead of weird here...
WOW - Eewy priest of Cenarius
EQ- Akanae Tendo officer of OTB ~retired~
COH - Akanae Empathy Defender on Pinnacle ~retired~
User avatar
Xyun
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2566
Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:03 pm
Location: Treasure Island

Post by Xyun »

Metanis wrote:
Apostate wrote:
Metanis wrote:I was taught to stop and look both ways before crossing a street or highway. That's all this action amounts to.

On a side note, the hate and hostility of the liberal mindset continues to entertain me. It's lucky for my kind that you libs are free of the mitigating influence of testosterone.
Would you also wait for the stop light to turn if you had your kid bleeding to death in the seat next to you?

Well, I got to watch someone I cared about go from being a vibrant, intelligent person to a helpless, incoherant invalid, eradicated by parkinson's, which most likely which will be cureable with stem cell research.

So yeah, go fuck yourself about caution and care.
So I run the red light and have an accident and kill someone else's kid. Where's your ethical solution there? In other words, your attempt at analogy fails miserably. It doesn't pertain to this argument.

What do you want to say about expediency? I won't argue that Stem Cell Research has great potential. I will argue that human beings are prone to ethical lapses. I will also argue that the human race and the human condition have survived for many millennia, what's a few more years to debate the sanctity of life itself?

Many of you won't understand this, but to those of us with religious beliefs, we belong to God first. The tissue you deem as junk doesn't belong to us! No amount of arguments regarding the possible beneficial use of stem cells changes the basic fact that we are treading on God's territory.

I was trained in science and math and I tend to believe that God intended for people to advance in all areas of understanding and endeavor. However, when we approach boundries and the lines get blurry then I would prefer that we err on the side of Divinity rather than Humanity. (Humanity has a history of poor decision making after all!)

I think it's also important to differentiate what President Bush vetoed today. He only stopped a bill that would have REQUIRED the H&HS Department to perform and support Stem Cell Research. This has no impact on any existing research and it has no impact on private research. If you don't believe me then do what I did, go read the language of the bill. Nothing is different at the end of the day. If you and a bunch of your buddies want to contribute to stem cell research you are perfectly free to do it. Bush is not allowing increased federal dollars to be spent. No restrictions to current stuff, just no new federal initiatives.

A government "of the people, by the people, for the people" means that even the religious voices need to be heard and respected when they speak in unison. The voices represent a minority and I'm sure they will not hold sway for long but we have a representative government so that the will of the people sometimes is delayed by the convictions of the dedicated.

Finally Apostate, you feel it's fine to tell me to fuck off? My estimation of you was too high by far. I'm sorry for that mistake.
Thank you for clarifying that you hate America so much, that even though you know you are in the minority and that you think the endorsement of this technology is inevitable, you are taking pride in and rejoicing the fact that you and your ilk are crippling the progress of our country.

"Humanity has a history of poor decision making after all!"

Yeah, it was so ignorant of us to invent dieties and supernatural beings and worship them since it continues to hinder us today. I whole-heartedly agree that the majority of us (or in this case the minority) are fucking idiots.
I tell it like a true mackadelic.
Founder of Ixtlan - the SCUM of Veeshan.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

I find it funny that a drug dealer is calling someone un american.
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Post by Zaelath »

Cartalas wrote:I find it funny that a drug dealer is calling someone un american.
Why? There's nothing as American as chasing the Almighty Dollar, regardless of the legality.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
User avatar
Kilmoll the Sexy
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5295
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:31 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: bunkeru2k
Location: Ohio

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Metanis wrote: I think it's also important to differentiate what President Bush vetoed today. He only stopped a bill that would have REQUIRED the H&HS Department to perform and support Stem Cell Research. This has no impact on any existing research and it has no impact on private research.

You do notice that when you do something silly like present a fact that the liberals, canadians, and other retards tend to ignore it and ramble on with their argument like nothing happened right? Just say no to facts.

Note that while I do HATE each of you liberals....especially the irish ones.....I am not opposed to stem cell research, but requiring a federal dept to support it is bad policy.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

Aww I'm touched you have such strong emotions for me, I barely register your existance except to laugh at it occasionally. You're not even a very good joke :(

The "fact" here is the US holding up research that could save lives - possibly of your loved ones if they were ever unlucky enough to be afflicted with the myriad diseases which could possibly be brought under control with the invention of new medicines derived from stem cell research.

What exactly was the point of your post beyond possibly the most pitiful whine about liberals ever written? You don't oppose stem cell research apparantly, so what do you suggest is a better way to fund it than using some of your tax dollars? (Or should that only be reserved for suppyling Israel with arms?)

As if this is a liberal/conservative issue at all - you're about as narrow minded as they come.
User avatar
Deward
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1653
Joined: August 2, 2002, 11:59 am
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Post by Deward »

This bill didn't just stop H&HS from doing research, it also blocked any funding that private organizations can gain from our tax dollars. Before Bush came into office, the USA was a leading researcher into stem cell research. His arrival cut off government funds to continue this work and drove most of these researchers to other countries.

I find it disgusting where Bush claims to have a moral reason for saving a few clumps of cellular material but he can kill off thousands of young men and women for oil. What a hypocrite. We need to set up a countdown timer for his ass getting out of office. I just can't imagine there being anyone worse than him.
Deward
User avatar
noel
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 10003
Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Calabasas, CA

Post by noel »

I made a post critical of our administrations policy decisions and your response is to call me a 'liberal'?

What the fuck does being pro stem-cell research (pro science) have to do with being a 'liberal'? If I were a liberal I'd be pro the government building up programs to assist with stem-cell research. If I were a conservative, I'd be pro incentivizing private industry to fund stem-cell research. If I were anything other than the sheep of the idiotic religious right, I'd be pro stem-cell research... which is what I am.

This isn't the 1400s or whatever. You're not going to have legitimate laboratories with legitimate funding/grants doing stem-cell research unethically.

Feel free to bury your head in your bible and pray for me and the rest of the world while we work hard to save people's lives, asshole.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by dibit_eq »

I'd like to see how Bush would handle a situation if his daughters were knocked up from a random one-night stand... Obviously, the abortions would be completely secret, but just a "what if" I find interesting...
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:You do notice that when you do something silly like present a fact that the liberals, canadians, and other retards tend to ignore it and ramble on with their argument like nothing happened right? Just say no to facts.
I addressed this directly. Next time I'll try to be more clear for you.

A large portion of scientific research has always been supported by governments of industrialized nations. Government's role in society is to benefit us and increase our quality of life.

Fact: Abortion is legal in the united states (opinion: and should be, and always will be).

Fact: The resulting medical waste from abortions has FUCKING ENORMOUS scientific value.

Fact: Medical waste does not have an immortal soul. You can argue all you want that life begins at conception; it also ends when an abortion doctor smashes it all up and sucks the bits out with a vaccuum tube.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Deward wrote:I find it disgusting where Bush claims to have a moral reason for saving a few clumps of cellular material but he can kill off thousands of young men and women for oil. What a hypocrite. We need to set up a countdown timer for his ass getting out of office. I just can't imagine there being anyone worse than him.
President Cheney.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

"Fact: Medical waste does not have an immortal soul. You can argue all you want that life begins at conception; it also ends when an abortion doctor smashes it all up and sucks the bits out with a vaccuum tube."

Medical Waste? Hmm what kind of society have we become when a childs life is snuffed out and called Medical Waste.

While im not against Stem Cell Research, my personal belief is that abortion is murder again that is my belief and the government should not be involved.

I still think that abortion is to easy in this country maybe we should hold the dumbasses that have unprotected sex accountable is the answer, now before you jump all over me and say " what about the raped women" I am all for them making their decision but for me its still murder.

Stem Cell research is important I just dont like the thought of aborted innocent children that were killed because their mommy had a gang bang in the frat house to be sold to the highest bidder.
User avatar
Forthe
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1719
Joined: July 3, 2002, 4:15 pm
XBL Gamertag: Brutus709
Location: The Political Newf

Post by Forthe »

Wasn't this bill only dealing with surplus embryos from fertility clinics? That was the impression I had from the articles I've read.

Is it the religious right's preference that embryos "be killed" in an incinerator, or thrown out with the garbage, rather than in a lab? At least in a lab they would have "died" for something.
All posts are personal opinion.
My opinion may == || != my guild's.
"All spelling mistakes were not on purpose as I dont know shit ." - Torrkir
User avatar
Akanae
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 290
Joined: September 20, 2002, 12:40 am

Post by Akanae »

So you think any woman who would have an abortion is automaticaly a slut? I think it is far more likely that they are just not educated properly. I wonder how many abortions a year would be avioded if our schools were allowed to teach safe sex instead of abistenence only. News flash teenagers are going to have sex, with or without your permission.

I actually find it amusing how many religious beliefs are contrary to each other. Like absitnence only, and then expect a 14 year old child to "ruin" their life going through pregnancy (and most likely also ruin their babies life) instead of getting an abortion and a proper education. All because that 14 year old didn't know about condoms.

Also the death sentence, if religious right wingers are so pro life, why are they so adament about putting people to death, when we can't prove 100% that anyone did anything (with some very few exceptions).
WOW - Eewy priest of Cenarius
EQ- Akanae Tendo officer of OTB ~retired~
COH - Akanae Empathy Defender on Pinnacle ~retired~
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Forthe wrote:Wasn't this bill only dealing with surplus embryos from fertility clinics? That was the impression I had from the articles I've read.

Is it the religious right's preference that embryos "be killed" in an incinerator, or thrown out with the garbage, rather than in a lab? At least in a lab they would have "died" for something.
So what your saying is we can start Embryo farms?


Thats worse!!
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Akanae wrote:So you think any woman who would have an abortion is automaticaly a slut? I think it is far more likely that they are just not educated properly. I wonder how many abortions a year would be avioded if our schools were allowed to teach safe sex instead of abistenence only. News flash teenagers are going to have sex, with or without your permission.

I actually find it amusing how many religious beliefs are contrary to each other. Like absitnence only, and then expect a 14 year old child to "ruin" their life going through pregnancy (and most likely also ruin their babies life) instead of getting an abortion and a proper education. All because that 14 year old didn't know about condoms.

Also the death sentence, if religious right wingers are so pro life, why are they so adament about putting people to death, when we can't prove 100% that anyone did anything (with some very few exceptions).
No I dont think any women having an abortion is a slut I never said that, I said there are different circumstances but im sure a lot of them are Dumb, and stop using the not educated excuse Safe Sex is shoved down our throats.
Apostate
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 58
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:52 pm

Post by Apostate »

Metanis wrote: What do you want to say about expediency? I won't argue that Stem Cell Research has great potential. I will argue that human beings are prone to ethical lapses. I will also argue that the human race and the human condition have survived for many millennia, what's a few more years to debate the sanctity of life itself?
A few years matter for the same reason any medical advancement matters. Because lives will be lost or saved based on the year it is discovered. And yeah, anyone that would belittle that to someone that -has- lost loved ones to the diseases that are relevant to the discussion I have very little sympathy for getting upset for being sworn at.

Basically, I feel much the same way about this as if say, hypothetically, I was living a century ago, had just had someone I cared about die to small pox, and had to listen to people drone on that we shouldn't experiment with vaccines because it's playing god.
User avatar
Marbus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2378
Joined: July 4, 2002, 2:21 am
Contact:

Post by Marbus »

That is a good point... and correct IMHO...

Take a look here... http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/

Uh? Yup that's the CDC, search on the statistics site or go back to the main page and guess what you will find? No data on abortions since 2000...

Funny how the CDC had kept up with this informaiton since 1974 but quits when a Pro-Life President and Congress take control...

Read the statistics from the 90s... abortions were going down every year... want to know why the data isn't there? The data isn't there because abortions have gone UP every year Bush has been in office.

Why? Because of the ignorance stance on abstenance and the economy... but most importantly because all those "Pro-Life" Republicans don't give a shit about babies, all they care about is getting elected and playing the abortion card to all you dumb asses that can't do your own research or think for yourself gets them elected... just like it got Bush elected last time.

Tell me this Mr. Pro-Life... wouldn't you think if abortion was really such a big issue that Mr. Bush and his cronies could have done something about it? Hell they have spied on us illegally, gotten our brother and sisters killed for no reason... it only follows that they don't care for unborn life or the rights of that life either.

So next time you want to see less abortions vote Democrat so that we can get education and dollers to those people who are having the abortions.... that is what will make the difference. It did before and it will again. Standing around waving a picket and talking about it and judgin others dose nothing...

Now that being said... the stem cell bill which Bush vetoed has nothing to do with abortions... so go "read the blil' yourself. It has to do with left overs from Invetro treatments in which the owners would actually have a right to donate the nonviable (so it's not life... it's not in a womb, has no chance of becoming life) to research in order to... GAH! GASP! Save someone's life...

If life is the key motivator here that so many fundies want to spout off about... think through your arguemnt. You can't say that we are for all life so we are trying to protect a child but we don't care about people who are already alive... I'm sure there is some notion about those "other" people being punished for sin or something like that but remember that if you do believe in "original sin" it's... original sin and every living human regardless of age has it...

Me personally, I do not believe in abortion in almost all cases but that is my opinion and it is based upon my religious belifs of when life beings. Not everyone, including the majory of Americans, hold that same belief. Thus if you are President and this is the LAND OF THE FREE then it is your duity to follow what the majority of Americans would like to see done in MOST cases. I do believe the President can make a decision like Bush did yesterday, if I were President I might too have to make an unpopular decision but unlike Mr. Bush... I think that decision needs to be based upon facts and the unmost understanding of the situation... which obviously he has not done.

Marb
Image
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by dibit_eq »

Not only are abortions bad in an ethical sense... we need more babies to fuel the war machine! Iran, anyone?


God I hope that's just a joke and not some grim prophecy...
User avatar
Kilmoll the Sexy
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5295
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:31 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: bunkeru2k
Location: Ohio

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Apostate wrote:
Metanis wrote: What do you want to say about expediency? I won't argue that Stem Cell Research has great potential. I will argue that human beings are prone to ethical lapses. I will also argue that the human race and the human condition have survived for many millennia, what's a few more years to debate the sanctity of life itself?
A few years matter for the same reason any medical advancement matters. Because lives will be lost or saved based on the year it is discovered. And yeah, anyone that would belittle that to someone that -has- lost loved ones to the diseases that are relevant to the discussion I have very little sympathy for getting upset for being sworn at.

Basically, I feel much the same way about this as if say, hypothetically, I was living a century ago, had just had someone I cared about die to small pox, and had to listen to people drone on that we shouldn't experiment with vaccines because it's playing god.
If you are such a champion for the cause of human life, then why are you not on here bitching about the FDA holding up drugs that are taking decades to approve that fight cancer and AIDS? Take your whining bullshit and stuff it in your ass. This is not uncommon at all for the US to block shit and leave other countries to go through the testing before they start allowing it here. It really is true that the whinigest bitches on this fucking planet are liberals. I never even realized just how much I hated left wing retards until I got to see them here in all their whining glory.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:If you are such a champion for the cause of human life, then why are you not on here bitching about the FDA holding up drugs that are taking decades to approve that fight cancer and AIDS?
Name one drug declared as totally safe in another first world nation that has been in testing for "decades" (or even years) by the FDA and I will get Pyrella to IP ban me. Just one.

The problem with people like you is that you have to support your arguments by lying through your fucking teeth. This goes back to my post a couple of days ago about stupid fucking neocons like yourself and their inability to live in reality with intelligent people.
User avatar
Drinsic Darkwood
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1279
Joined: March 27, 2003, 10:03 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post by Drinsic Darkwood »

Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:Wasn't this bill only dealing with surplus embryos from fertility clinics? That was the impression I had from the articles I've read.

Is it the religious right's preference that embryos "be killed" in an incinerator, or thrown out with the garbage, rather than in a lab? At least in a lab they would have "died" for something.
So what your saying is we can start Embryo farms?


Thats worse!!
What? Have you been reading anything said thus far?

Last I checked the bill/funding isn't advocating the "farming" of embryos for the sole purpose of stem cell research. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me. These are embryos from fertility clinics that are going to be destroyed/killed regardless of what happens. If they're being destroyed anyway name one single fucking reason why they should not be used for the betterment of mankind, i.e. stem cell research.
Do unto others what has been done to you.
User avatar
Avestan
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 905
Joined: July 4, 2002, 12:45 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Politicians + Religion = Shit

Post by Avestan »

dibit_eq wrote:
noel wrote:I hope he comes down with a terminal disease

Well, he'll have the money made from this war to be one of the very few Americans to afford the cure that China or Singapore will have produced over the next year or so.
Yeah, money is being made left and right. The dollars are just rolling in.
User avatar
dibit_eq
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 133
Joined: February 10, 2005, 12:10 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Politicians + Religion = Shit

Post by dibit_eq »

Avestan wrote:
dibit_eq wrote:
noel wrote:I hope he comes down with a terminal disease

Well, he'll have the money made from this war to be one of the very few Americans to afford the cure that China or Singapore will have produced over the next year or so.
Yeah, money is being made left and right. The dollars are just rolling in.

Well, yeah, the US government might file for chapter 11 in a few months, but I'm certain that his stock portfolio is still going strong.
Post Reply