Moussaoui Lives

[Wulfran]

I've been watching this a bit with varying degrees of interest because some of the charges, in terms of holding someone responsible for an attack when they were already in custody, etc seemed a little dubious to me (what about the rights to remain silent, not say anything incriminating about yourself, etc ad nauseum). At the end I have to wonder did the jury:

a) feel this simple s.o.b. wasn't worthy of being "revenge" for those who died on 9/11
b) not want to give in to his seeming wish to become a martyr (thereby giving him arguably the less desirable sentence to him)
c) honestly feel that he didn't do enough to deserve the death penalty

From everything I saw, this guy was like the leftover of the terrorist scrimmage, you know like when the neighbourhood kids all play a game and pick teams and at the end, one team takes little Zacharrias out of pity more than anything else (or so he doesn't complain to mom that they won't let him play). It seemed he wanted to die so he could be a martyr and show all the other terrorists he made the big time.

It almost makes me wonder if the prosecutorial fuck ups were made intentionally to try and throw the case because the grand high mucky-mucks in Dept of Justice or wherever thought "shit, we gave this asshole more attention than he deserves already: the last thing we want to do is fry him and give him more..."

The whole thing seems almost surreal.

[Aruman]

I didn't want him to get the death penalty for one reason...

He's going to be getting his ass kicked almost every day in prison, or spend his whole time in solitary. Either way he's going to suffer for however long he is alive.

I'm certain the guards won't be going out of their way to help this slime either.

[Tuddi2]

when it comes to revenge, anything goes.

you just have to have a reason to make another human beeing suffer.

he's guilty, he should be put in jail, and spend the rest of his life there.

spending every day beeing beaten up, that's torture, and i'd like to think the western population were above that.

or are some nations excluded, or are there clauses like "he killed an american so we can torture him for ever now".


honestly, if you had to pick

having the victims of 9/11 all dying on that horrible day

or

they all get kidnapped moved to someplace you'll never get them back and know they'll get beaten up and raped every day for the rest of their lives.

which is worse

and because he's a terrorist, he deserves the worst because he attacke america ?

how about taking the higher ground, isn't the majority of you christians or something ... *golfclap*

beeing true to the religious "rules" is like beeing married
it's not hard when things are going happy-shiny
it's when things get tough that you're tested and too many people fail like mutherfuckers when it comes to that point.

[Vaemas]

I give him a year before someone pulls a Dahmer on him and he winds up dead in a shower.

[Sylvus]

you just have to have a reason to make another human beeing suffer.

he's guilty, he should be put in jail, and spend the rest of his life there.

spending every day beeing beaten up, that's torture, and i'd like to think the western population were above that.

or are some nations excluded, or are there clauses like "he killed an american so we can torture him for ever now".

I think what the previous poster was saying is that there is an element in US prisons that doesn't take too kindly to certain kinds of other prisoners, and that they would probably make his life difficult in there. I think the most notable type of crime that gets the least respect (and is subsequently beat, raped or whatever) is child sexual abuse, but I bet having a hand in 9/11 won't be too far away from that.

I'm a pretty non-violent person but if bad things are going to happen to inmates by their peers anyway, I'd rather have it be against people who harm children or blow up buildings than someone who is in there for tax evasion or possession of marijuana.

[Boogahz]

I've been watching this a bit with varying degrees of interest because some of the charges, in terms of holding someone responsible for an attack when they were already in custody, etc seemed a little dubious to me (what about the rights to remain silent, not say anything incriminating about yourself, etc ad nauseum). At the end I have to wonder did the jury:

a) feel this simple s.o.b. wasn't worthy of being "revenge" for those who died on 9/11
b) not want to give in to his seeming wish to become a martyr (thereby giving him arguably the less desirable sentence to him)
c) honestly feel that he didn't do enough to deserve the death penalty

From everything I saw, this guy was like the leftover of the terrorist scrimmage, you know like when the neighbourhood kids all play a game and pick teams and at the end, one team takes little Zacharrias out of pity more than anything else (or so he doesn't complain to mom that they won't let him play). It seemed he wanted to die so he could be a martyr and show all the other terrorists he made the big time.

It almost makes me wonder if the prosecutorial fuck ups were made intentionally to try and throw the case because the grand high mucky-mucks in Dept of Justice or wherever thought "shit, we gave this asshole more attention than he deserves already: the last thing we want to do is fry him and give him more..."

The whole thing seems almost surreal.

Personally, I did not feel that the death penalty should have been an option. The reason it was is that they were able to find him responsible for at least one death in the attacks. I can only figure that the only way he was responsible was that he didn't take any opportunity to stop the plot. That, in my opinion, should not make the death penalty be an option. I, for one, do not want to see him beaten or killed in prison. That was the only thing I was worried about when I heard the sentence.

[Aruman]

you just have to have a reason to make another human beeing suffer.

he's guilty, he should be put in jail, and spend the rest of his life there.

spending every day beeing beaten up, that's torture, and i'd like to think the western population were above that.

or are some nations excluded, or are there clauses like "he killed an american so we can torture him for ever now".

I think what the previous poster was saying is that there is an element in US prisons that doesn't take too kindly to certain kinds of other prisoners, and that they would probably make his life difficult in there. I think the most notable type of crime that gets the least respect (and is subsequently beat, raped or whatever) is child sexual abuse, but I bet having a hand in 9/11 won't be too far away from that.

I'm a pretty non-violent person but if bad things are going to happen to inmates by their peers anyway, I'd rather have it be against people who harm children or blow up buildings than someone who is in there for tax evasion or possession of marijuana.

Exactly.

I am sure that the prison population had access to the media. They know who he is and his sentence. If he goes to prison here in the United States his life is going to be very very miserable.

[Winnow]

This guy is moving to a special isolation cell 60 feet below the surface somehwere in CO i think...will be there 23 hours of each day..and have concrete furniture, one black and white TV with three stations..anger managment, religion and family something or another.

I heard on radio in background this morning so maybe someone has link describing where he's going.

[Sylvus]

Exactly.

I am sure that the prison population had access to the media. They know who he is and his sentence. If he goes to prison here in the United States his life is going to be very very miserable.

Don't say "Exactly" like we're on the same page. You didn't want him to get the death penalty so that he would spend a lifetime of torture. That's not what I'm saying!

[cadalano]

when it comes to revenge, anything goes.

you just have to have a reason to make another human beeing suffer.

he's guilty, he should be put in jail, and spend the rest of his life there.

spending every day beeing beaten up, that's torture, and i'd like to think the western population were above that.

or are some nations excluded, or are there clauses like "he killed an american so we can torture him for ever now".

he wasnt spared from death in order to torture him. Killing him would make him a martyr and vilify america even further to many muslims. On the other hand, Americans can accept the sentence because most people understand that life in prison is a worse punishment than execution.

Regardless, he's being protected now and i'm sure he'll have a level of protection while in prison. it would be a mistake to let him be killed

[Tuddi2]

i'm well aware that he'd hardly be put in prison and spend time with the general penile population.

i'm talking about the ideas behind the comments.

saying "i'd lose no sleep if he'd get a hard 50 years of unregulated torture from fellowinmates and then die" means something

the coment that aruman made that erked me the most was this

I'm certain the guards won't be going out of their way to help this slime either.

something wrong with the prison system if this is not only happening but condoned by the population at large in the free world outside the walls.

and stories of people going to prison for a few years 1 2 or 3 or something

and coming out with aids, because of having gotten raped repeatedly by a number of other inmates, when you're in prison you do your time cut of from the rest of the world and then come back out on even grounds minus a rapsheet.

it shouldn't be a hell hole within a hell hole just because it contains people that like doing nasty shit to other people and will just continue doing it to other inmates that are of lesser physical stature then them relatively unhindered.

or better yet, since this country is supposedly the "best place on earth" , we should have the nuts to put some money where our mouth is and remove this bs stain from the country.

if i had to choose a place where i wouldn't wanna go into jail, America is in the top 5 of my list i guess.

[cadalano]

lol top 5?

youre an idiot

[Aruman]

Exactly.

I am sure that the prison population had access to the media. They know who he is and his sentence. If he goes to prison here in the United States his life is going to be very very miserable.

Don't say "Exactly" like we're on the same page. You didn't want him to get the death penalty so that he would spend a lifetime of torture. That's not what I'm saying!

Doesn't imply we are 'on the same page'. It just says Exactly, that what you said is what is likely to happen if he goes to the general population.

Heaven forbid anyone agrees with what you said, regardless of whether you approve of what would likely happen and the reason why.

I'm just a realist. I know what happens to people like this in prison.

I'm not going to lie: I think he should suffer for what he did.

That comes in one or two flavors: Unending assbeatings, or having very very limited contact with anyone ever again.

Doesn't matter to me which it is.

[Animalor]

Doesn't imply we are 'on the same page'. It just says Exactly, that what you said is what is likely to happen if he goes to the general population.

Al'Qaeda recruitment drives?

[cadalano]

Exactly.

I am sure that the prison population had access to the media. They know who he is and his sentence. If he goes to prison here in the United States his life is going to be very very miserable.

Don't say "Exactly" like we're on the same page. You didn't want him to get the death penalty so that he would spend a lifetime of torture. That's not what I'm saying!

Doesn't imply we are 'on the same page'. It just says Exactly, that what you said is what is likely to happen if he goes to the general population.

Heaven forbid anyone agrees with what you said, regardless of whether you approve of what would likely happen and the reason why.

No you quoted his entire post, giving the impression that your gum-flapperings following the word "Exactly" expand on his thoughts in their entirety. You read the first few sentences, got all excited that someone was actually backing you up, and clicked quote without even finishing.

I totally dig you acting like your support is the grace of god to poor Sylvus, though. I'm sure any one of us needs your opinion like we need leprosy

[Tuddi2]

lol top 5?

youre an idiot

i'm pretty sure that overall america doesn't have one of the top 5 - worst prison settings - in the world, but i'd have to do research to find out countries that have a worse one.

basing it purely on beeing in prison, not on the language barrier that beeing in prison in a 3rd world country would make the stay there all that worse, i'd still put the american prison system high on my list.

but that's probably based on me thinking that all your prisons are like your worst, which they surely aren't.

and you have to sorta learn to read between the lines.

name calling where you bash someones' intelligence is sorta harsh if it's a 3 word sentence and there is a typo in it

but that's just me

[Boogahz]

the coment that aruman made that erked me the most was this

I'm certain the guards won't be going out of their way to help this slime either.

something wrong with the prison system if this is not only happening but condoned by the population at large in the free world outside the walls.

There's where the mistake came into play. You assumed what Aruman said was how the "population" felt.

[cadalano]

you truthfully cant think of five nations that have worse prison conditions than the U.S.?

that was one of the questions on junior jeopardy for fucks sake

[Boogahz]

you truthfully cant think of five nations that have worse prison conditions than the U.S.?

that was one of the questions on junior jeopardy for fucks sake

I think it's just that the US prisons get the most publicity and such. You know...things like: Oz, Prison Break, etc..

[Aruman]

Exactly.

I am sure that the prison population had access to the media. They know who he is and his sentence. If he goes to prison here in the United States his life is going to be very very miserable.

Don't say "Exactly" like we're on the same page. You didn't want him to get the death penalty so that he would spend a lifetime of torture. That's not what I'm saying!

Doesn't imply we are 'on the same page'. It just says Exactly, that what you said is what is likely to happen if he goes to the general population.

Heaven forbid anyone agrees with what you said, regardless of whether you approve of what would likely happen and the reason why.

No you quoted his entire post, giving the impression that your gum-flapperings following the word "Exactly" expand on his thoughts in their entirety. You read the first few sentences, got all excited that someone was actually backing you up, and clicked quote without even finishing.

I totally dig you acting like your support is the grace of god to poor Sylvus, though. I'm sure any one of us needs your opinion like we need leprosy

Yeah, it's all my fault that the realities of the prison system exist. It was my master plan after all. I personally insured that people exact punishment on the scum of the prison community. Be it pedophiles or whatever inmates consider detestable.

My support? Sylvus doesn't need suport from anyone, and neither does anyone on this 'intelligent, non-biased' forum.

No one's opinion really matters to anyone here... so get off your high horse.

[Sueven]

i'm well aware that he'd hardly be put in prison and spend time with the general penile population.

A wonderful double entendre / freudian slip.

The prison situation is a problem. Say you're a young kid who has grown up in a life of poverty and crime. You get caught for something and go to jail for a couple years, where you're forced to join a gang for protection, will probably be involved in a fair amount of violence (attacking others, being attacked by others, being forced to fight by gang leaders, whatever), might get raped, might watch others get raped, and so on. After your few years of existing in a racist violent hellhole, you're put back on the streets with no support whatsoever... and you're expected to not commit more crimes! I'm shocked that anyone is surprised by our high recidivism rates, it's a natural consequence of our system.

Prison reform is absolutely vital, and anyone who says "put it on the back burner, they're criminals, who cares what happens to them" is a fucking idiot. It has nothing to do with working to give criminals nice lives, it has everything to do with drastically reducing the threat to public order caused by the fact that our prison systems breed criminals. Put some low-level weed dealer in a cesspool of violence, rape, and gangs, and you're damn right he's going to come out worse than he went in.

Of course, none of this applies to someone like Moussaui who's got a life sentence.

[kyoukan]

Doesn't imply we are 'on the same page'. It just says Exactly, that what you said is what is likely to happen if he goes to the general population.

Heaven forbid anyone agrees with what you said, regardless of whether you approve of what would likely happen and the reason why.

I think he just doesn't want his opinions associated with such a racist asshole.

I would personally be upset if my country had such an awful penal system that being put in prison is actually worse than being executed.

PS: He will be an untouchable hero with the muslim population in whatever prison he goes to, so the laugh is on you.

[Aruman]

I think he just doesn't want his opinions associated with such a racist asshole.

So I hate Canadians...

[Tuddi2]

i'm well aware that he'd hardly be put in prison and spend time with the general penile population.

A wonderful double entendre / freudian slip.

and boogahz

i just assumed aruman is a part of the population and the rest of it might have some portion that agrees with him.

or is he alone with his views ?

[Boogahz]

i'm well aware that he'd hardly be put in prison and spend time with the general penile population.

A wonderful double entendre / freudian slip.

and boogahz

i just assumed aruman is a part of the population and the rest of it might have some portion that agrees with him.

or is he alone with his views ?

He must not be alone since he had to learn them somewhere...but he is not near the majority

I am guessing that there may be 4-5 people here that share it.

[Avestan]

I give him a year before someone pulls a Dahmer on him and he winds up dead in a shower.

He is being sent to a permanent solitary confinement facility.

[Bubba Grizz]

That is a great punishment. I know it would be hell for me.

[Siji]

Why would you prefer to have to pay for his living expenses for the next 30-40 years? A martyr? To whom? And why do we care? Hell, I forgot his name already if it weren't this thread. Like I give two shits about one more reason out of hundreds for the Muslim community to dislike the US? Like letting the bad apples from that religion live in prison instead of killing them is going to get us invited to the next breakdance beatbox party.

[Bubba Grizz]

dunno but if he is to be punished this is one way to do it. Why kill him and let him no longer suffer? (at least in the non biblical sense) I would guess that many of the people who lost family members in that event would pay to extend his suffering. I don't mind the fraction of my tax dollars going towards his life long suffering.

[Winnow]

Why not kill him so he can see that there is no Allah, there is only Jesus and God! (the Christian one!) halle-fucking-lujah!

Come on you religious freaks! You know you want to prove him wrong!

Kill him and let God sort it out!

[Niffoni]

Not looking to argue this point, just as an aside.. This reminds me that I'd heard a study quoted on CBC that showed that in the American justice system, it actually costs more taxpayer dollars to put someone through the process of the death penalty than it does to let them rot for decades.

I may be wrong, or the study may be shit, but I wonder, has anyone else heard of this?

Bill Mahar put it best with regards to this trouser-stain. He's an "open-mic'er". If Al Queda was a junior high school, he was the loud kid with B.O. that none of the other little terrorists could stand, and who nobody wanted to hang out with. He doesn't deserve martyrdom. The judge got it right, he deserves to die "with a whimper".

[Spang]

i heard it in a fictional movie that i believe to have been based on real life facts, The Life of David Gale. i think i'm the only one who's ever seen it though. good movie either way.

and i found this:

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=cost

2005 Los Angeles Times Study Finds California Spends $250 Million per Execution


Key Points


The California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life. (This figure does not take into account additional court costs for post-conviction hearings in state and federal courts, estimated to exceed several million dollars.)


With 11 executions spread over 27 years, on a per execution basis, California and federal taxpayers have paid more than $250 million for each execution.


It costs approximately $90,000 more a year to house an inmate on death row, than in the general prison population or $57.5 million annually.


The Attorney General devotes about 15% of his budget, or $11 million annually to death penalty cases.


The California Supreme Court spends $11.8 million on appointed counsel for death row inmates.


The Office of the State Public Defender and the Habeas Corpus Resource Center spend a total of $22.3 million on defense for indigent defendants facing death.


The federal court system spends approximately $12 million on defending death row inmates in federal court.


No figures were given for the amount spent by the offices of County District Attorneys on the prosecution of capital cases, however these expenses are presumed to be in the tens of millions of dollars each year.