What the hell happened to fighting games?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 1, 2006, 3:28 pm

Rented the Street Fighter 3 hyper alpha turbo type-r supercharged, and it fucking blows. It's now a super-twitch combo game.

When did all fighting games turn into this shit?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 1, 2006, 3:43 pm

when tekken came out.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 1, 2006, 3:44 pm

Street Fighter 5 Omega Compu-global Hyper-mega-net GT is better.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2006, 3:46 pm

Truant wrote:when tekken came out.

Seconded.

The idiots that make these games decided that 100-button/stick-combination-motion-captured-combos were AWESOME! Absolutely zero thought is given to whether or not the game is FUN, but DAMN is it pretty.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 1, 2006, 3:50 pm

I may be old, but I think that the old Street Fighter 2, Soul Caliber, ect. were the shit. Basic set of controls, each char had a set of special moves, but nothing obscenely stupid, and past that, you had to LEARN HOW TO FIGHT.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 1, 2006, 3:59 pm

I remember watching some kid play one of those fighting games and it was just ridiculous. Some obscene 75 hit combo..

noel · Post by **noel** » May 1, 2006, 4:02 pm

masteen wrote:I may be old, but I think that the old Street Fighter 2, Soul Caliber, ect. were the shit. Basic set of controls, each char had a set of special moves, but nothing obscenely stupid, and past that, you had to LEARN HOW TO FIGHT.

Street Fighter 2 was fucking awesome. Guile 4TW!

miir · Post by **miir** » May 1, 2006, 4:12 pm

The last fighting game that I really liked was Mortal Kombat II.

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » May 1, 2006, 4:21 pm

I enjoyed Soul Caliber a lot, but can't recall any fightings games that I've placed since.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 1, 2006, 4:35 pm

sonic boom!

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 1, 2006, 5:03 pm

the super million hit combos, iirc, came about from capcom's fighting games after the decline of the street fighter series (read, when III released). They had a series of Dark Stalkers, X Men games where you could get some rediculous combos, and it snowballed from there with the Marvel VS Capcom series, and etc. Those were the essence of cheese fighting, because if someone got one of those 200 hit combos on you, you couldn't actually do anything.

I was talking about the retarded factor of tekken, and the games that emulated that. First time I played tekken, I got beat by this five year old kid that was just slapping the buttons. So I put another coin in, spread my big hand out and just slapped all the buttons. I was champion of the arcade that afternoon.

As far as fighting games go, Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 2 were probably about the peak, imo.

The only arcade games that are worth my time anymore are shooters. The Time Crisis series was a lot of fun, and the various sniper games are enjoyable.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » May 1, 2006, 6:03 pm

Soul Calibur is an excellent fighting game

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » May 1, 2006, 6:05 pm

Truant wrote: So I put another <censored> in, spread my big <censored> out and just slapped all the <censored>. I was champion of the <censored> that afternoon.
.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 1, 2006, 6:12 pm

Soul Caliber II is my favorite fighting game of the new era, but it doesn't really have the same feeling that the Street Fighter II era did. Not even close.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 1, 2006, 6:52 pm

cadalano wrote:
Truant wrote: So I put another <censored> in, spread my big <censored> out and just slapped all the <censored>. I was champion of the <censored> that afternoon.
.

haha gold star!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 1, 2006, 7:51 pm

I like more accessible fighting games too. I think Dead or Alive 4 is the best fighting game ever because not only is it deep, but my friends that don't play that much can still button mash and have fun.

Street Fighter games are for fighting game enthisiasts that play competetively. It's not fair to not play a fighting game for 10 years and then rent one of the most complex and skill based games on the market and say all fighting games are gay now. There is a pretty limited audience for them however, and they demand new stuff every iteration.

Although I'm not sure what you guys are thinking. Tekken 5 is pretty accessible for casual or new players. You aren't going to beat hard mode or an experienced player without practicing it a lot though. I think some genres of games should reward people who are more skilled or practice a lot.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » May 1, 2006, 8:05 pm

Soul Calibur in all its incarnations is fairly servicable. Everything else from MKII onward (at the latest) hasn't been worth it.

I miss the stategy of fighting games pre-Tekken. Every character with 5 or 6 big moves, learn how to counter/prepare for them. And learn the basic blocks.

Learning to hit the right combo of buttons so your generic opponent doesn't ever hit the ground is boring as hell, and really requires no thought.

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » May 1, 2006, 9:40 pm

The only 2d fighter worth owning is Marvel vs Capcom 2.. besides that.. only other one worth mentioning is Guilty Gear X2.

MVC is possibly one of the best games ive ever played and highly addicting. One of those games you can walk into an arcade and just play for hours against random people, however, it is only a fun game if you are in fact playing against other people.

I have it for PS2 with everything unlocked, and play it constantly with my step brother and a ton of friends.. its just a great game.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 1, 2006, 11:18 pm

Masteen , what kind of fighters do you like / prefer?

If you like the old 2D fighters, check out Mame32 and Kaillera.

Then you can fight over the net with people all over, some games are even for 4 players (there is a normal Capcom VS Marvel and a 4-player version you can get).

The later batch of the 2D-fighters were actually pretty decent with aerial blocking, high jumping (screen was as high as it was wide) and so forth.

They even added combos to the 2d-fighters and break-moves.

When Streetfighter 1 was new (1987) i played it a lot in the Arcades!

When Sf2 was released(1991), that became quickly my favorite, then came New Challengers(93) with Fei Long, Cammie etc and that was great back then.
You didn't have set-combos back then either if i remember correctly.

Combos came with the later ones like Alpha(1995) and then we got the crossover series, which were actually pretty good where you could do combos.

Oh yeah, forgot Alpha 3(1998), which i played on my Playstation a few times which introduced some kind of level-up where you could buy different skills by using skillpoints you got during fights.

I think you had aerial combos and whatnot during the Alpha-series.

StreetFighter 3 and EX i know nothing about.

-

The SF-game i played the most must've been regular and Champ edition(91 and 93) and then not until Alpha 3(98) i tried StreetFighter again.

When SNK released Samurai Shodown 1 i played that lots0rz, a very good game imho!

The whole SF-series became confusing with Alpha1-3, Hyper, Streetfighter III Second Impact, EX and whatnot back then!

Sam Shodown 1 and Last Blade 2, fun games!

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• Street Fighter <- What started it all!
• Street Fighter II: The World Warrior <- Huge upgrade from the classic, a smash-hit!
• Street Fighter II: Champion Edition <- Nupe
• Street Fighter II Turbo: Hyper Fighting <- Nopes
• Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers <- Good new characters!
• Super Street Fighter II Turbo <- Never tried
• Street Fighter The Movie (Arcade Game) <- Never tried
• Street Fighter The Movie (Home Game) <- Never
• Street Fighter Alpha <- Never
• Street Fighter Alpha 2 <- Never
• Street Fighter Alpha 2 Gold <- Never
• Three: A New Generation of Street Fighters <- What's this?
• Street Fighter EX <- ?
• Street Fighter EX Plus <- What
• Street Fighter EX Plus Alpha <- Never
• Street Fighter III: Second Impact <- Nope
• Street Fighter EX2 <- Nay
• Street Fighter III: Third Strike <- Noper
• Street Fighter Alpha 3 <- RPG-elements added somewhat, worth trying it
• Street Fighter EX2 Plus <- Nay
• Street Fighter EX3 <-- Dunno

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Streetfighter 1 Bonus stage!

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The History of Streetfighter

http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs/un ... 01_01.html

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 1, 2006, 11:31 pm

When Tekken 2 was released , i began playing that one and by Tekken 3, i felt was so good that i actually participated in the Swedish Championships!

I was ready to challenge the swedish elite gamerz but i always felt that the real challenge was in Japan!

People from a northern town in Sweden even came down south to Stockholm (the capital) to challenge people back then, and since nobody could challenge me, the Swedish Championships maybe could give me a challenge!

Winner would go to Europe and then Japan i believe.

Well guess what, i didnt win but i got my pic in some Gamermagazine LOL

Those were the days!

I liked Tekken-series thanks to their characters mostly.

You could do more realistic martial arts moves than in other games back then and you had distinctive styles.

I quickly learned the combosystem and executed the ten-hit combos flawlessly LOLZ!

Soul Calibur i liked as well, but not as much.

-

When trying MAME32 and fighting peeps online with Kaillera, i find that X-Men VS Streetfighter and the later series CapCom VS Marvel etc are pretty smooth games with lots of possibilities but i easily felt that i was a noob since i could only do the standard moves back then from SF2 (Hadoken, Shoryuken etc) while the american pro-players easily did some weird 25+ hit combos on me in the air! LOL

Totally outmatched.

But you should try them out on MAME32 and Kaillera (online play) Masteen!

All the VS-series are great! Also try Pocket-Fighter! Cutest fighting game by Capcom!

Been a while since i played fightinggames so i am not up to date with what's new.

Tekken 5 or 6 nowadays?

What's the best fightinggame now in most people's opinion?

Must be a 3d-fighter or?

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » May 1, 2006, 11:38 pm

What's the best fightinggame now in most people's opinion?

I am a fan of fighting games, both 2d and 3d..

Best 3D fighter right now is Soul Calibur 2. ( not 3 )

Best 2D is Marvel VS Capcom 2

Other fighting games of note.. Super Smash Bros Melee, Guilty Gear X2 ( i think its called X2 ), and possibly Capcom VS SNK2.. besides that, the games aren't all that great, unless your into japenese games too.. then the new Naruto Hero game for PS2 is pretty well done.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 2, 2006, 12:17 am

Gonzoie - Luclin wrote:
What's the best fightinggame now in most people's opinion?
I am a fan of fighting games, both 2d and 3d..

Best 3D fighter right now is Soul Calibur 2. ( not 3 )

Best 2D is Marvel VS Capcom 2

Other fighting games of note.. Super Smash Bros Melee, Guilty Gear X2 ( i think its called X2 ), and possibly Capcom VS SNK2.. besides that, the games aren't all that great, unless your into japenese games too.. then the new Naruto Hero game for PS2 is pretty well done.

What do you think of Samurai Shodown 1 - 4 and Last Blade-series?

Ever play Marvel VS Cap 2 or Cap VS SNK2 online with Kaillera?

What's the best Unarmed 3D fighter atm (generally regarded).

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » May 2, 2006, 12:28 am

Good questions..

I personally have actually never played Samurai Showdowns or Last Blade series.. However i have talked with some of the guys at work ( GameCrazy ) and they have said that those games are pretty decent, but still prefer MVC2.

No, i have never played them online, and i would probably get my ass kicked. The way that some people play this game is just amazingly sick.

Best unarmed fighter would have to be DoA4 for 360 i feel.. its a pretty solid fighter, but it seems like button mashing may be successful.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » May 2, 2006, 8:57 am

Best fighting game EVER = IK+ on the C64

At least the one i spend the longest time with.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 2, 2006, 9:03 am

KILLLLLLLLLLLLGORE!!!!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 2, 2006, 9:04 am

Personally I think this game was the best.

Soul Caliber = Soul Edge in the arcade?

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » May 2, 2006, 9:49 am

Soul Caliber = Soul Edge in the arcade?

Soul Edge was the first creation of the series, then they went with a bit different style and labeled it Soul Calibur, which was a great game.. followed by Soul Calibur 2 and 3.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 2, 2006, 9:54 am

So, Soul Calibur 2 is where it's at then? (better than 3?)

Have to check that one out!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 2, 2006, 10:34 am

DoA4 is pretty slick for he 360, but it would be great to get some variety for the platform...I am sure there eventually will be though. I would really like to see the Mortal Kombat folks take all the shit that works, remove all of the stupid shit and release a solid game.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 2, 2006, 11:00 am

I think Killer Instinct was the one really popular game that changed the fighting game approach even though it was a piece of shit.

SF2 was obviously great but champ edition balanced the players out much better. The champ at my area arcade would play ryu w/ one hand just to balance out the matches because he just couldn't be beat otherwise. In the champ edition, I used to really fustrate people using e. honda because there wasn't many that actually used him as a primary so they would have trouble predicting and countering. I still remember when MK1 came out. All of the special moves had to be figured out or heard about by word of mouth since the internet really wasn't prevelant. I was essentally the champ of MK1 and 2 at Point Pleasant beach in Jersey. Would pretty much run off 30-40-50+ wins over a couple hours playing Scorpion on Sat nights.

From a 2-d standpoint, there was a SNES game called Weaponlords which was pretty involved. The only problem with the game is there were just too few frames of animation so your counters and blocks had to pixel perfect.

From a 3-d standpoint, I surprised noone had mentioned my favorite, the virtual fighter series. VF2 was a pretty cool game for its time.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 2, 2006, 11:05 am

From a 3-d standpoint, I surprised noone had mentioned my favorite, the virtual fighter series. VF2 was a pretty cool game for its time.

Ah, I remember that one.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 2, 2006, 11:36 am

VF2 had one char that could cheese it with low-kicks non-stop all fucking day though. Grr.

Blaming Tekken for the appearance of combos in fighting games is like blaming, like, someone for something they totally didn't do. Yeah.

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » May 2, 2006, 12:13 pm

There hasn't been nearly enough mention of guilty gear in this thread. =p

If you're a fighting game fan, and a gamer in general, you need to play this. It's on ps2 and xbox.

It's amazingly good, with solid balance and interesting characters to boot. Some of the best animation in a fighting game I've ever seen, too.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 2, 2006, 12:36 pm

Gamei wrote:There hasn't been nearly enough mention of guilty gear in this thread. =p

If you're a fighting game fan, and a gamer in general, you need to play this. It's on ps2 and xbox.

It's amazingly good, with solid balance and interesting characters to boot. Some of the best animation in a fighting game I've ever seen, too.

You can play Guilty Gear online with Kaillera as well!

What is it you find is better with Guilty Gear than let's say the best Capcom VS Marvel or Last Blade 2?

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » May 2, 2006, 1:11 pm

Killer Instinct is the one that pushed all the million hit combo bullshit into the genre. Right now its a dead game style, like the 2d scrolling shooter or platformer. DOA4 to me = mash buttons while staring at digital tits, so that game doesnt do it for me. The last fighting game I played that I liked was MK6, but they dropped all the MK5 characters I really liked (even though they were in the game, models moves and all, in story mode) so even that was not perfect. The game I really would like to see a modern version of is Bushido Blade 2. That game had some SERIOUS depth without being twitch paced.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 2, 2006, 1:18 pm

The last fighting game I really enjoyed has to have been Samurai Shodown on the NeoGeo coin-op.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 2, 2006, 3:26 pm

I'm sorry, but did someone actually call rote memorization of combo patterns "skill"? That's the definition of twitch. There is no reaction involved, other than trying to guess when to start your pattern.

Patterns != fighting. Try doing kata during a brawl

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 2, 2006, 3:28 pm

Everyone forgot Deathsword, that rocked the Vic20/C64/Amiga crowd and if you knew you would back forward back forward click and you could lop off your opponents head.

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » May 2, 2006, 7:49 pm

I always liked Bushido Blade because of it's realism and the fact that winning wasn't based on a life bar, it was based on a fatal hit against your opponent.

Theoretically, you could win the fight with one well placed swing of your sword. That's strategy!

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 3, 2006, 12:18 pm

I got DOA4 for the 360 yesterday from one of those online rental places and I'm running into this exact same thing. Once the opponent launches into one of those combo's, there's nothing you can really do but watch yourself die.

It's pretty frustrating really.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 3, 2006, 12:58 pm

Animalor wrote:I got DOA4 for the 360 yesterday from one of those online rental places and I'm running into this exact same thing. Once the opponent launches into one of those combo's, there's nothing you can really do but watch yourself die.

It's pretty frustrating really.

Are there no combo-breakers?

I know some fightinggames had a combo-breaker move (a bit awkward to do but it stopped those pesky 10+ hitters).

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 3, 2006, 1:20 pm

I know DOA3 had a counter move which could break combos...not to mention you could block.

I have not played DOA4, but I can't imagine it changing that radically.

I really enjoyed DOA3 simply because the various fighting styles of the different characters are noticeably different, and not just the same cookie cutter stuff with different animations.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 3, 2006, 1:40 pm

That's a must for a good fighter imho, very different characters with different fighting and playstyles.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 3, 2006, 2:16 pm

there probably are combo breakers however these online rental places don't usually send the manual with the game so I have no idea.

I may just hit up my friend Google for some help.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 3, 2006, 2:40 pm

DOA3 had a training mode, where you could load up a character, and you would practice each move one at a time. It would not let you move on until you could sucessfully do the move.

Anyways, in that mode, you could open a menu and move to any move you wanted to...or simply just look at the menu to see what the moves are.

I would be willing to bet this is still present in DOA4.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 3, 2006, 2:40 pm

Animalor wrote:there probably are combo breakers however these online rental places don't usually send the manual with the game so I have no idea.

I may just hit up my friend Google for some help.

When i first got Tekken 2 on the PS (i actually got a PlayStation just for this game back then!), i printed out a complete movelist from some site on the net.

I'm certain the newer fightinggames have combobreakers to prevent all those 10+ peeps.

Still, i had no problem with 10+ combos in the Tekken-series, if you played the game much (which i did), you would recognize ALL the techniques of the chars (since you fought lots of different people using all kinds of chars).

So, when lets say Nina Williams began one of her 10-hitters, you could either counter it with a quick move or just block through the whole sequence (since you'd know the sequence of attacks, low,low,low,mid,high etc).

You would break a combo by doing lets say a lowkick while Nina did a highkick in her 10 hitter etc.

You could also grab the foe mid-combo if you were quick enough, or just sidestep etc.

Tekken series had lots of combo-breakers without actually having a combobreaker-move.

For most of the newer 2D-fighters, you would do a special move (lets say back forth medium punch or whatnot) for the combobreaker move.

There are ways to stop a combomaster!

Just because you face a person knowin all the combos doesn't mean he/she is unstoppable!

One of the best things/moves/techniques in the Tekken-series was that you could counter and reverse grapples.

Someone would do a kick at you and you time it correctly, you would grab the kick and do a counter, sending the opponent to the ground.

Or being attacked by a grappler/wrestler, if you timed it well, you could abort his grappling move, pushing him away, and then catching him off-guard with a grapplingmove of your own!

If you had great reflexes in that game, you could have lots of fun!

Someone would attack, you would quickly sidestep and do a grapplingmove (grapplingmoves from the side often did more damage, grapplingmoves from the back did most damage!).

So you could use that to your advantage as well! Positioning! Sidestepping quickly etc.

One thing i hate with some fightinggames were those pesky AERIAL juggles though where you couldn't do SHIT!

Once the opponent managed to fling you up in the air, you couldn't defend yourself at all...

but later games added aerial recovery and aerial blocking as well..

Back then, many people loved the RPG-genre or Strategy most on their consoles but fightinggames of all sorts were my speciality!

Before i got the Playstation, i bought a Neo Geo console!

Nowadays you gotta love emulators though! Less bulky!

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 3, 2006, 3:35 pm

Truant wrote:DOA3 had a training mode, where you could load up a character, and you would practice each move one at a time. It would not let you move on until you could sucessfully do the move.

Anyways, in that mode, you could open a menu and move to any move you wanted to...or simply just look at the menu to see what the moves are.

I would be willing to bet this is still present in DOA4.

It is. I mucked around with it last night. I doubt that I will get much practice with the game in the coming days as it is a rental however I will be getting a 2nd controller later this week cause my wife love playing fighting games. =)

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » May 3, 2006, 3:39 pm

Animalor wrote: It is. I mucked around with it last night. I doubt that I will get much practice with the game in the coming days as it is a rental however I will be getting a 2nd controller later this week cause my wife love playing fighting games. =)

Good wife Animalor!

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 5, 2006, 2:42 am

Am I the only one that liked the Bloody Roar series?

Janx · Post by **Janx** » May 6, 2006, 9:28 am

VF4:E pwns. Didnt see it mentioned but was skimming most of the thread ^^.