Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 25, 2006, 11:10 am

I'm surprised to see that only 3% of the nation are atheist. No wonder the world is so fucked up. I think there are a lot of closet atheists in the U.S.

Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority, according to new U of M study

What: U of M study reveals America’s distrust of atheism
Who: Penny Edgell, associate professor of sociology

Contact: Nina Shepherd, sociology media relations, (612) 599-1148
Mark Cassutt University News Service, (612) 624-8038

MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (3/28/2006) -- American’s increasing acceptance of religious diversity doesn’t extend to those who don’t believe in a god, according to a national survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota’s department of sociology.

From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public. “Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years,” says Penny Edgell, associate sociology professor and the study’s lead researcher.

Edgell also argues that today’s atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society. “It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,” says Edgell. Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.

Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting social disorder is behind the findings. “Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good.”

The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to one’s exposure to diversity, education and political orientation—with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

The study is co-authored by assistant professor Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann. It’s the first in a series of national studies conducted the American Mosaic Project, a three-year project funded by the Minneapolis-based David Edelstein Family Foundation that looks at race, religion and cultural diversity in the contemporary United States. The study will appear in the April issue of the American Sociological Review.

wtf...any of you god fearing freaks come after me and I'll beat you with a stick!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 25, 2006, 11:25 am

Only 3% of us? Scary indeed.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 25, 2006, 12:14 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Only 3% of us? Scary indeed.

case in point for the study!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 25, 2006, 12:19 pm

What the fuck.

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » April 25, 2006, 12:26 pm

I don't believe in athiests.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » April 25, 2006, 12:32 pm

i'm a dyslexic athiest.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 25, 2006, 12:44 pm

Atheist != agnostic

Add the 2 togather and you got a much larger % (actually up over 100% in the past 15 years into double digits for the first time). Studies like that are flawed beyond words... when someone asks do you distrust a muslim you can either come off as a bigot and say yes or say no so you can sleep better at night even though you look at the middle eastern man on your airplane with suspicion. 2000 Mini-soda households is also a horrible choice for a survey to get a national feel.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 25, 2006, 12:52 pm

I'm more of an antitheist myself.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 25, 2006, 1:10 pm

There are no atheists in a foxhole!

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » April 25, 2006, 3:25 pm

Skogen wrote:There are no atheists in a foxhole!

That is a myth.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 25, 2006, 3:31 pm

Aruman wrote:
Skogen wrote:There are no atheists in a foxhole!
That is a myth.

Prove it!!

EDIT: yes I know many ex-soldiers (including Audie Murphy) lose any belief in god after experiencing combat. However, I think people like that are the exception, not the rule.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 25, 2006, 3:45 pm

Skogen wrote:
Aruman wrote:
Skogen wrote:There are no atheists in a foxhole!
That is a myth.
Prove it!!

.

You prove your assertion. You can't. Just as he cannot prove his. A true atheist can tell you that they wouldn't convert to a believer just because they were in a fox hole though. I've had some trying times over my years since my awakening that there is no God and many more to come and I haven't thought of goign back nor do I foresee ever doing so. Once you are out of the lies, it's really hard to trick yourself into believing in fairytales again.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » April 25, 2006, 4:49 pm

Skogen wrote:
Aruman wrote:
Skogen wrote:There are no atheists in a foxhole!
That is a myth.
Prove it!!

EDIT: yes I know many ex-soldiers (including Audie Murphy) lose any belief in god after experiencing combat. However, I think people like that are the exception, not the rule.

Been there... done that... proved it...

*EDIT* posted before he made his change btw, but it still fits hehe.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » April 25, 2006, 5:14 pm

Winnow wrote:
with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

This is the only part you really need to read

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 25, 2006, 7:35 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Skogen wrote:
Aruman wrote:
Skogen wrote:There are no atheists in a foxhole!
That is a myth.
Prove it!!

.
You prove your assertion. You can't. Just as he cannot prove his. A true atheist can tell you that they wouldn't convert to a believer just because they were in a fox hole though. I've had some trying times over my years since my awakening that there is no God and many more to come and I haven't thought of goign back nor do I foresee ever doing so. Once you are out of the lies, it's really hard to trick yourself into believing in fairytales again.

What "lies"? Who, or what were you listening to? Remember religion does NOT equal faith.

As far as Athiests go...I really, REALLY wonder how many people on this earth have actually been in a foxhole with artillery falling all around them have actually held onto the idea that there is no god during this time. I'm not say they has not been one...but very, very few.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » April 25, 2006, 7:56 pm

Is it possible to be an evangelical agnostic?

Like, can I go on TV, sweat and pound my pulpit while yelling "I don't know WHAT the fuck is going on, man!"?

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » April 25, 2006, 8:24 pm

Neroon wrote:
Winnow wrote:
with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

This is the only part you really need to read

Going to have to call bullshit on this one, having moved from Wisconsin to California. I have encountered more Crispiness here in Cali than I ever did in the midwest. People (even ministers) were generally tollerant of me in Wisconsin, but out here people go all partisan on you if you tell them you don't follow the guy on a stick.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 25, 2006, 10:09 pm

Skogen wrote: As far as Athiests go...I really, REALLY wonder how many people on this earth have actually been in a foxhole with artillery falling all around them have actually held onto the idea that there is no god during this time. I'm not say they has not been one...but very, very few.

That really is a sad sad reason to promote belief. It takes fear to believe? Ah yes, well fuck, as an Atheist, when I'm in a situation where I may be close to death, my feeling is that it's lights out and that's it. You can't take someone in a state of panic an fear and say, "Aha! You believe!" That's just lame. Atheists get scared just like the religious bozos in this world. They aren't immune to fear, they're immune to believing in fairytails "just in case". Now, if some fucking reject religious person isn't going to drag me to the medic if I don't say I believe in God...you're god gamned right I believe! I'm not going to die to save my non belief, I'm going to appease the stupid religious nut until I get some medical attention and then bitch slap his ass after I recover and settle back into the realm of common sense.

The religious whackos always have the same response, "Well you should believe just in case there is a God!" Grow some balls people! Don't be such pussies that you need to cling on to crap that is really no better than Scientology, it just was faked up so long ago that it's more mysterious. Religious people would be a crack up if they weren't responsible for 99% of the death and destruction on the planet.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 25, 2006, 10:27 pm

good. athiests are as annoying as religious fundies. possibly worse because their are smug about it.

what's really sad about this is that how the faithful are utterly convinced that such a tiny speck of the population is 100% at fault for the moral decline if their entire nation. being relgious already pegs you as a person more apt to blame something or someone else for their own shortcomings, but that is a bit of a reach.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 26, 2006, 12:49 am

Yes I fucking love when religion comes up on the vault.

I avoid this topic like it's the plague in real life, I absolutely hate getting into a debate about it.

Most importantly, My beliefs are for me.. I do not care to convert you and I do not want your money.. I dare not preach to you and I refuse to argue as well. I have what I believe to be the only logical solution.. the only rational explanation for everything that exists and everything that has happened, leaving no loopholes, no unanswered questions, no discrepancies, and no bullshit. It's backed by everything science has discovered and everything I've personally experienced over less than 2 weeks shy of 27 years.

We learn things as building blocks, or constructs.... It could be as simple as saying heaven is up, hell is down... we say, whats up? and why are you so down? When discussing religion it's easy to throw out one or two sound bites that, to you, seal the deal, but your opponent sees them as ridiculous and counters with sound bites that you consider crazy as well. You're attacking the keystone construct which your opponent has built a good portion of their entire lives on top of.

Consider this firstly... If your parents were Hebrew and religious, you would be Hebrew. If your parents followed Islam, so would you. It does not make any sense for a religious person to raise their children any other way... It is the only way, to them.

Also consider that regardless of the factuality of religion or it's impact today, that religion was absolutely necessary and definitely instrumental in the development of our world. There was and is no greater way to shepard the will of humanity than religion. Some of you may be thinking to yourself....... Terrorism. It's a close second

To think that we are 1 species of 1.2 billion species on Earth, a spinning ball which is one of 8 or 9 planets, depending on who you talk to, which are orbiting 1 star out of ~200,000,000,000 stars (thats about 200 billion)... It really starts to show some scale... scale, to me, is one of the most important facts of reality. To add that those ~200,000,000,000 stars are all contained in 1 galaxy in our universe... a universe that contains ~200,000,000,000 galaxies, should blow your fucking mind. One cannot very well tell you how the view is from England while standing in New York City, so it goes without saying that our visibility is limited while still being amazing...

In closing.. Being an atheist and being a good person are not mutually exclusive. You can choose to be as sweet as pie, no matter what you believe in. Mmmm Pie.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » April 26, 2006, 3:13 am

Cake > Pie... *flee*

*Hugs*
Varia

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » April 26, 2006, 5:27 am

It is not a coincidence that humans are the only species that employ both reason and religion. Religion came about precisely because we can reason. When one has the ability to ask "how?" then he also has the ability to postulate an answer. Furthermore, from a purely scientific perspective, the question of the existence of a supreme being is completely legitimate.

However, religious faith is not simply the belief that God exists, but rather, that God has human characteristics, human morals, and human ideals. Moreover, in modern language it is also the belief that God is all knowing, all powerful, and all good and is therefore deserving of worship and prayer. This is where the logical transgression is made and the fundamental flaw with modern monothiestic religious theory is exposed, that God not only exists, but exists as a perfect human.

In reality, it is just as probable for an athiest to be of high moral character as it is for a thiest to be of a low one. While it is factual to say that religion is or was necessary and instrumental to the development of the world today, it is erroneous to conclude that it has had a positive impact. It is impossible for us to know whether we would have been better off without religion. The only way to qualify or judge religion's impact on history is by applying human morality to it. For the purpose of this argument, let us assume that saving a life is universally considered "good" while taking a life is universally considered "evil". Religion has both saved and taken lives and is therefore morally ambiguous.

God, however, is not morally ambiguous. By definition God is an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent being. These attributes constitute His supremacy and therefore His adulation. However, since evil exists, we must conclude that God, by definition, does not. It is of course possible that a being exists that is either omnibenevolent, omniscient, or omnipotent, but lacking any one of these attributes makes him imperfect and therefore, not God.

Athiesm is not the denial of the existence of a being, or even a supreme being, it is the denial of the existence of God. Since the burden of proof lies with the thiest, and since God cannot exist logically, the thiest must either change the definition of God or abandon reason and logic altogether. Unfortunately, the current trend leans towards the latter and away from the very thing that necessitated the argument in the first place.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 9:17 am

Excellent posts Fash and Xyun. wo fo the best posts I've read on this board ever.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 9:33 am

Did you quote that from somewhere Xyun?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 26, 2006, 4:41 pm

The anthropomorphization of God is one of the worst aspects of Christianity, and the epitome of hubris.

I also love the assholes on TV, "GOD HATES FAGS," when in the Bible, trying to know the mind of God is not only impossible, but also an act of impious pride.

If there's 2 things America has more of than anyother country on Earth, it's pride and ignorance. Dangerous combination for a supposed developed country.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 26, 2006, 4:46 pm

Winnow wrote:
Skogen wrote: As far as Athiests go...I really, REALLY wonder how many people on this earth have actually been in a foxhole with artillery falling all around them have actually held onto the idea that there is no god during this time. I'm not say they has not been one...but very, very few.
That really is a sad sad reason to promote belief. It takes fear to believe? Ah yes, well fuck, as an Atheist, when I'm in a situation where I may be close to death, my feeling is that it's lights out and that's it. You can't take someone in a state of panic an fear and say, "Aha! You believe!" That's just lame. Atheists get scared just like the religious bozos in this world. They aren't immune to fear, they're immune to believing in fairytails "just in case". Now, if some fucking reject religious person isn't going to drag me to the medic if I don't say I believe in God...you're god gamned right I believe! I'm not going to die to save my non belief, I'm going to appease the stupid religious nut until I get some medical attention and then bitch slap his ass after I recover and settle back into the realm of common sense.

The religious whackos always have the same response, "Well you should believe just in case there is a God!" Grow some balls people! Don't be such pussies that you need to cling on to crap that is really no better than Scientology, it just was faked up so long ago that it's more mysterious. Religious people would be a crack up if they weren't responsible for 99% of the death and destruction on the planet.

who said anything about "promoting" belief?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 26, 2006, 5:13 pm

Skogen wrote:
who said anything about "promoting" belief?

What was your point then besides selling the idea that fear and panic cause people to resort to desperate measures? This fits nicely in with the theory that the fear of death is what keeps religion alive.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » April 26, 2006, 5:18 pm

Winnow wrote:
Skogen wrote:
who said anything about "promoting" belief?
What was your point then besides selling the idea that fear and panic cause people to resort to desperate measures? This fits nicely in with the theory that the fear of death is what keeps religion alive.

I'm trying to sell anything...remember it only applies while they are IN the foxhole! Once they are out...who knows what. I'd wager that if we put midnyght in foxhole, and rained 105mm howitzer shells on his ass, he'd pray to god too....and you to for that matter! Lets do it!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 7:14 pm

Skogen wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Skogen wrote:
who said anything about "promoting" belief?
What was your point then besides selling the idea that fear and panic cause people to resort to desperate measures? This fits nicely in with the theory that the fear of death is what keeps religion alive.
I'm trying to sell anything...remember it only applies while they are IN the foxhole! Once they are out...who knows what. I'd wager that if we put midnyght in foxhole, and rained 105mm howitzer shells on his ass, he'd pray to god too....and you to for that matter! Lets do it!

Nah dude. That is where your point crumbles. No matter what the situation, you cannot resort to believing in mythical creatures. What the hell does believing in the Tooth Fairy have to do with being in a foxhole? The Tooth Fairy can't help me. Only my training and a lil luck

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 26, 2006, 7:26 pm

People will revert to the fear of God in such a situation (foxhole) if they have been conditioned to do so. If you put a devout Hindu who's lived in rural India his whole life in that hole, he won't start praying to God, he'll start doing whatever Hindu's do (I don't actually know). If you put a devout believer in the Tooth Fairy in there, he'll start praying to the Tooth Fairy. If you put someone who was born an atheist, raised an atheist, and remains an atheist in that hole, he won't pray to anything. If you put a converted atheist in that hole, he may very well revert back to praying. Humans are easily conditioned, but this says absolutely nothing about the meaningfulness or content of conditioned actions.

My religious beliefs can be summed up very nicely as follows:

Christopher Hitchens wrote:extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

So show me the evidence if you expect me to even seriously entertain your philosophy. The only argument for belief that strikes any sort of chord with me is 'I had some sort of supernatural experience which has taught me that X religion is true.' I have not had such a supernatural experience, so I can't argue against it. I would caution such people that it's interesting that everyone who was raised Christian, or raised in a Christian nation, has an experience that attests to the truth of Christianity, while everyone that was raised in an Islamic nation and had such an experience converted to Islam, and so on.

There are so many rational arguments against religion that they're not even really worth rehashing. What happened to the millions of people who lived before Christ? What happened to those who live in geographic areas where Christ's message did not penetrate? Why doesn't God seem to reveal himself to those who live in Islamic nations? How can the concept of an all-powerful God be made coherent? Is morality something which God acts in line with, or is it something that God created? How can we coherently understand free will within a religious context? What does it mean to say that God is the 'final cause?'

Each of these questions has an established religious response, a response which is generally constituted of 50% evasion and 50% linguistic confusion. I'm happy to take any arguments for God extremely seriously, but have only very rarely been presented with anything beyond the elementary.

That said, I bear no disrespect toward Christians (or religious folks of any stripe). Live and let live. I don't even consider myself an atheist. There's a chance that the Christians are right (even if I consider that chance to be basically 1 in infinity).

I think the fact that it's socially necessary to acknowledge the acceptability one anothers religious belief is absurd. I'm fine with toleration in a personal sense, but there's no reason that I should acknowledge the validity of your belief. If I had a 1st century understanding of science (there are four elements, earth air fire and water, and the flat earth is the center of the universe), would you be required to acknowledge the validity of that belief? No. At best, you'd say something like "I can't stop you from believing that, but you're a fool for doing so". Similarly, there's no reason that I should have to acknowledge the validity of anyone's 1st century understanding of spirituality.

I would now apologize to all the religious folks I've offended, but I'm sure they've heard and dismissed all of these complaints before.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 7:34 pm

On a side note, the most crazy christian I ever met believed in god mainly because his brother had raped him and thus (OBVIOUSLY?!?!!) god was testing him.

He also claimed dinosaurs bones were put here to test our faith (Yes, that Bill Hicks' sketch would have been handy to show him then).

Sorry for going off topic

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » April 26, 2006, 9:08 pm

Agnostic- someone who believes it is impossible to prove the existence of God.

Atheist- One who completely denies the existence of God.

Atheism is kind of like a religion in its own right. I've encountered atheists that are just as "righteous" as christians, muslims, etc. Agnostics are easier to get along with personally.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 9:36 pm

Markulas wrote:Agnostic- someone who believes it is impossible to prove the existence of God.

Atheist- One who completely denies the existence of God.

Atheism is kind of like a religion in its own right. I've encountered atheists that are just as "righteous" as christians, muslims, etc. Agnostics are easier to get along with personally.

Your ascertion that Agnostics are easier to get along with makes sense. They are unable to fully commit to one side or the other, they are fence sitters. Sotra hedging their bets either way. So, they would naturally be easy people to get along with because they take no hard stances. I went through my phase as an agnostic. I thought, "hey, who am I to say what there is or isn't?"....then I looked deeper and realized I am a person of this technological age, where the answers are here for all to see. Fairytales live no more in this information/technology age.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 9:49 pm

So someone who doesn't profess to understand a higher power none of us can prove or disprove and happily admits his general ignorance with an honesty most refuse to consider is a fence sitter?

I think thats ridiculous. That person is being more realistic, humble and righteous than anyone who sits on either side of the "fence".

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 10:03 pm

Nick wrote:So someone who doesn't profess to understand a higher power none of us can prove or disprove and happily admits his general ignorance with an honesty most refuse to consider is a fence sitter?

I think thats ridiculous. That person is being more realistic, humble and righteous than anyone who sits on either side of the "fence".

I can understand your stance on that. I felt that way for a long time myself. Then I felt, if I couldn't see one ounce of truth in any of religion, then I am taking the easy way out by not moving over to the denial group. To me, the only thing keeping people in the agnostic group is the fear they may be wrong and will not get into heaven.

That's just my two cents though.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 26, 2006, 10:10 pm

Fortunately the exchange rate of your two cents makes the mexican peso look like the Euro.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 10:11 pm

kyoukan wrote:Fortunately the exchange rate of your two cents makes the mexican peso look like the Euro.

Your contribution to this conversation as well as many others was again none existent. Thanks.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 10:20 pm

That's balls Midnyte.

In my case, I feel (that's it, just feel, not know or believe) that there may be some sort of higher consciousness (it may be a "god", it may be physics, it may be something none of us have any clue of, it may be my imagination).

For definate, however, it has fuck all to do with "not wanting to be proved wrong and not get into heaven" because, I don't necessarily believe in a heaven, or a hell, or any place an "organised" religion/cult deems worthy of mentioning.
Heaven is of no concern to someone who doesn't believe in organised religions. Did you forget that in your "long time" when you were considering.

To be honest, I think I sit somewhere in between thinking there is no god or heaven and thinking there is a power I feel that created us, it is more than likely random chance, light, goodness, luck, whatever. I don't know and never will. I can still marvel at it knowing there is no punishment or prize for doing so.

Therefore, in many cases (I am sure I'm not alone) your point is just plain wrong.

Edit: That's about the briefest roughest synopsis of myself I've ever written, therefore, don't dissect it too much because it barely covers even the vaguest points of what I think I might possibly feel, let alone know.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » April 26, 2006, 10:36 pm

Nick wrote:Did you quote that from somewhere Xyun?

Nope. However, if you are assuming a genius wrote it, you would be making a correct assumption.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 10:43 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 11:07 pm

Nick wrote: Heaven is of no concern to someone who doesn't believe in organised religions. Did you forget that in your "long time" when you were considering.

LOL, no. I don't believe in religion, so heaven or hell are as real to me as Santas Workshop. To an Agnostic, in my opinion, they still do believe in and fear going to heaven if it is real, just in case. They are hedging their bets. Again, just my opinion.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 11:11 pm

You just missed the point, try reading again.

You still assume people are doing it to "hedge their bets" even though they (in many cases) don't even begin to concern themselves in those perspectives?

That's just being willfully ignorant.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 26, 2006, 11:14 pm

Yes that is the only explanation that rational people have for being agnostic. Because they are hedging their bets. It's not like it's because intelligent and humble people might realize that there is more to the universe than what is right in front of them. More than likely it is because if they die and go to heaven, they will be able to lawyer out of eternal damnation by arguing with St. Peter than they didn't really ever not believe.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 11:15 pm

Nick wrote:You just missed the point, try reading again.

You still assume people are doing it to "hedge their bets" even though they (in many cases) don't even begin to concern themselves in those perspectives?

That's just being willfully ignorant.

That is my point though. That many people who consider themselves agnostics, are so, because they in their own minds would rather not venturre a guess either way. It is my contention that they are fearful to educate themselves and take a stance either way because secretly, deep down they fear the consequences of being wrong.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 11:23 pm

And what evidence do you have apart from some random assumption you are pulling out of your ass?

Do you actually think people hold christianity in that high regard all over the world, do you actually think the afterlife is whats more important to certain people than the present?

You presume to know these things and refuse to entertain the concept that you're being close minded?

How "open minded" of you

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 26, 2006, 11:29 pm

Nick wrote:And what evidence do you have apart from some random assumption you are pulling out of your ass?

Do you actually think people hold christianity in that high regard all over the world, do you actually think the afterlife is whats more important to certain people than the present?

You presume to know these things and refuse to entertain the concept that you're being close minded?

How "open minded" of you

ummm maybe you missed the many times I mentioned it is my opinion....my point of view.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 26, 2006, 11:33 pm

That's all well and good, is it founded on anything other than unflinching ignorance?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 26, 2006, 11:52 pm

Nick wrote:That's all well and good, is it founded on anything other than unflinching ignorance?

Which brings everything right back to the original article posted here.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 27, 2006, 12:10 am

What do you call someone who instead thinks: We evolved from apes, which evolved from something else, which evolved from something else, ad infinitum, over millions of years in a long saga of rise, fall, and evolve...

1 wee species, out of 1.2 billion on this 1 wee planet.. and every 100 years, there are an entirely new set of humans. God, knowing this, only shows up once, and trusts his imperfect and uneducated creations to tell the story acurately and record it for the future so then God wouldn't have to waste time actually showing up and doing anything, you know, godly.

Quite simply, Whatever created us, this planet, the galaxy, the universe... doesn't matter. It's a complete and total non-issue. There is no reason to believe or even postulate that there is an 'after-life'.

Humans have the most advanced abilities and features on the planet, and it shows in our dominance and our own evolution (since that happens every generation to some extent) but to think that we're completely different from everything else on this planet, or that we actually matter to anyone or anything outside of other humans or pets is absolutely insane.

It's a loaded question to say "What is my purpose?"... It implies that you actually have one and that it was decided by someone/something else.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 27, 2006, 12:42 am

Nick wrote:
That's all well and good, is it founded on anything other than unflinching ignorance?

Yes. Logic.

VeeshanVault

Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority

Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority

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Re: Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minorit