Video card suggestions

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 5, 2006, 8:40 pm

Blew up the video card in the gf's computer and need to replace it. Card is used for some gaming, some graphics work and some webpage development. 256 mb a must, prefere Nvidia over ATi and can not be PCI Express. Price range is not over $200 on this one.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Been so busy with work that I am completely out of the hardware loop.

Thanks!

miir · Post by **miir** » April 5, 2006, 9:50 pm

Check out this thread:

http://veeshanvault.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17084

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 5, 2006, 10:40 pm

Ah hah! Reading now, thanks!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 6, 2006, 12:04 am

Thanks to the previous thread and the fact that I plan to build a whole new box to her in the fall sometime I think I have settled on a 6600. No point in wasting TOO much money when it will be replaced down the road anyway.

So decission time: 6600 with 256 mb or 6600GT with 128mb? Price difference is minimal and I have no idea if extra memory makes up for the other being slightly faster.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » April 6, 2006, 2:24 am

The extra memory depends on the application. You're going to see little difference at this point with today's games using those cards. I would recommend the 256MB version.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 6, 2006, 12:59 pm

7800 GT ftw

miir · Post by **miir** » April 6, 2006, 1:07 pm

Pherr the Dorf wrote:7800 GT ftw

Price range is not over $200 on this one

can not be PCI Express

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 6, 2006, 1:25 pm

Minor technicalities.

I also recommend the 7800GT!

miir · Post by **miir** » April 6, 2006, 1:32 pm

Winnow wrote:Minor technicalities.

I also recommend the 7800GT!

I hear you can snip off the extra contacts on an AGP card to make it fit into a PCIE slot.

Janx · Post by **Janx** » April 6, 2006, 1:53 pm

Pretty sure the 6600 non GT (even with its 256megs) is a piece of shit compared to the GT with 128.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 6, 2006, 2:14 pm

Janx wrote:Pretty sure the 6600 non GT (even with its 256megs) is a piece of shit compared to the GT with 128.

That's a huge overstatement.
In most benchmarks, a 6600 will be within a few FPS of a 6600GT.

You'll see a much more noticeable performance jump going up to a 6800GT.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » April 6, 2006, 4:00 pm

I was going to say a 6800GS but you can't seem to find those on NewEgg anymore. However I did find this, it's a ASUS 6800 with 512MB of DDR2 for like $170. Looks like a sweet deal. Most of the reviews are good except a couple of bad cards which were replaced, but that is in almost every review.

Marb

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121216

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 6, 2006, 5:12 pm

Yeah I looked at that one as well. I personally would jump up a couple of levels but she doesn't want to spend the money on it since she will build a new computer soon anyway.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » April 6, 2006, 7:53 pm

I think anyone pondering these decisions shoudl examine the charts at http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/ ... page6.html

miir · Post by **miir** » April 7, 2006, 2:31 am

Kylere wrote:I think anyone pondering these decisions shoudl examine the charts at http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/ ... page6.html

20 month old benchmarks.
20+ month old drivers.
2 year old games.

Kinda pointless, dontcha think?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 7, 2006, 9:01 am

I just put an AGP PNY 6600 256 MB card in my machine. They have them on NewEgg for $103 right now. If you want somethign that can handle any EQ/EQ2/WoW type game without any difficulty, it is more than enough card. I ran Planetside on it with full settings and was getting 70+ FPS pretty much all the time. It is also running DDO very well, albeit they still need a little work on their netcode.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 7, 2006, 11:57 am

It is also running DDO very well, albeit they still need a little work on their netcode.

Hehe, the game still needs a lot of work... period.

What server you on, Khole?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 7, 2006, 6:14 pm

argonessen....or however the hell you spell it

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » April 7, 2006, 6:22 pm

miir wrote:
Kylere wrote:I think anyone pondering these decisions shoudl examine the charts at http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/ ... page6.html
20 month old benchmarks.
20+ month old drivers.
2 year old games.

Kinda pointless, dontcha think?

The same cards, so not pointless at all. You know what, you really are a fucking moron. How is comparing middle of the road AGP cards today going to produce different results from 15 months ago?

Hell, anyone with a room temp or better IQ can draw decent conclusions given hard evidence, which means that I understand why you do not get it.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » April 7, 2006, 6:44 pm

Kylere wrote:
miir wrote:
Kylere wrote:I think anyone pondering these decisions shoudl examine the charts at http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/ ... page6.html
20 month old benchmarks.
20+ month old drivers.
2 year old games.

Kinda pointless, dontcha think?
The same cards, so not pointless at all. You know what, you really are a fucking moron. How is comparing middle of the road AGP cards today going to produce different results from 15 months ago?

Hell, anyone with a room temp or better IQ can draw decent conclusions given hard evidence, which means that I understand why you do not get it.

Drivers drastically change the performance a video card has in a game. The jump is generally extremely significant, depending on the driver's focus.

Example:

Benchmarks change drastically over a 20 month period. While two cards might both play UT 2k4 at 100 and 102 frames per second, the same two cards might play F.E.A.R. at 10 and 35 frames per second.

anyone with a room temp or better IQ can draw decent conclusions given hard evidence

Hard evidence changes drastically in 20 months.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 7, 2006, 6:46 pm

Kylere wrote:
miir wrote:
Kylere wrote:I think anyone pondering these decisions shoudl examine the charts at http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/ ... page6.html
20 month old benchmarks.
20+ month old drivers.
2 year old games.

Kinda pointless, dontcha think?
The same cards, so not pointless at all. You know what, you really are a fucking moron. How is comparing middle of the road AGP cards today going to produce different results from 15 months ago?

Hell, anyone with a room temp or better IQ can draw decent conclusions given hard evidence, which means that I understand why you do not get it.

I put the most important part that you missed in bold, kthx!

*edit* bah, leonaerd gave a better example, but I am keeping my VV's!

miir · Post by **miir** » April 8, 2006, 12:43 am

You know what, you really are a fucking moron.

orly?

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 12:23 pm

For one reason or another, my Radeon 9700 Pro doesn't seem to be so hot for WoW, Civ 4, and even EQ2 a bit. I get lots of flickering dots and while playing WoW, especially, I get dumped w/ an ATI video card error popup. Sometimes the game continues to run, I just have to click to re-open the game on the task bar (which is hidden by the frozen game screen, I can make out the bar due to occasional desktop flicker, eesh). My system is also only able to take an AGP 4X. Drivers are updated as of 4/12/06 yet the same problems exist. I don't mind dishing out for a 6600 (PNY or Geo) if the compatibility is there. Performance I'm sure will be fine for me, I just want something that works for what I play. i'd also be curious if anyone has heard of others having difficulty with the 9700 Pro for various apps.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 25, 2006, 12:29 pm

Chidoro wrote:For one reason or another, my Radeon 9700 Pro doesn't seem to be so hot for WoW, Civ 4, and even EQ2 a bit.

That card is ancient. I've upgraded my graphics card three times since owning a 9700Pro. It was a great card in it's day and is the card that's lasted the longest single stretch in a computer of mine but man, it's time for you to get a new card! 9700Pro is the equivalent of WW2 technology in terms of graphics cards these days.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 25, 2006, 1:09 pm

I get lots of flickering dots and while playing WoW, especially, I get dumped w/ an ATI video card error popup

When my 6800 blew up last week, I had to pop an old 9600 in for a few days til I could get around picking up a new one. After turning the graphic settings way down on my games (incl WoW, EQ2 and COD2), they were still playable (albiet pretty sluggish). So you should be fine with the 9700... especially with WoW which is not very taxing for any video card (except in Org or IF). It sounds to me like your card is pooched.

Check that you're running the latest drivers and if you still get the video corruption and errors, chances are the hardware is on the verge of blowing up.

I don't mind dishing out for a 6600 (PNY or Geo) if the compatibility is there.

Every 6600 (except the 6600GT)I have seen are AGP 4X compatible. I recommend BFG or EVGA over PNY simply because thier support and warranty is the best in the business. BFG and EVGA both have lifetime warranties for their cards while PNY only has a 1 year on the card you'd be purchasing. I don't know anything about Geo, nor could I find anything about them on google.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 1:24 pm

miir wrote:
I get lots of flickering dots and while playing WoW, especially, I get dumped w/ an ATI video card error popup
When my 6800 blew up last week, I had to pop an old 9600 in for a few days til I could get around picking up a new one. After turning the graphic settings way down on my games (incl WoW, EQ2 and COD2), they were still playable (albiet pretty sluggish). So you should be fine with the 9700... especially with WoW which is not very taxing for any video card (except in Org or IF). It sounds to me like your card is pooched.

Check that you're running the latest drivers and if you still get the video corruption and errors, chances are the hardware is on the verge of blowing up.

I don't mind dishing out for a 6600 (PNY or Geo) if the compatibility is there.
Every 6600 (except the 6600GT)I have seen are AGP 4X compatible. I recommend BFG or EVGA over PNY simply because thier support and warranty is the best in the business. BFG and EVGA both have lifetime warranties for their cards while PNY only has a 1 year on the card you'd be purchasing. I don't know anything about Geo, nor could I find anything about them on google.

Thanks. By Geo, I meant Geoforce. I guess that's what I associate nVidia w/. I will try turning down some settings first. I don't recall anything being terribly out of whack but if it's an unsupported default setting, it may work. Mind you, It's not a frame rate issue, everything seems to run a-ok speed wise. The drivers are up to date yet this problem was the reason I cancelled WoW the first time. I figured after purging my computer, it would work properly. I didn't have an issue w/ doom 3 based on my settings if that means anything. I guess it's about to blow based off of your assessment though. The computer was purchased in Oct of '02, it's coming on 4 years so I know the card is old, it's just that it seems to run stuff that I play fine frame-rate wise, but this issue is with errors and games closing out for the few I play. Sim 4 seems ok.

Money gets funneled in other directions first obviously, heh. Thanks for the quick response (as well as the quick dressdown Win

).

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 25, 2006, 1:31 pm

Chidoro wrote:Thanks. By Geo, I meant Geoforce. I guess that's what I associate nVidia w/.

If you try to look up any information on the Nvidia cards, try looking around for Geforce. It might get more results than Geoforce.

I have only had the ATI issues come up regularly in SWG (when I played it) and yesterday in WoW. I also remember it in EQ once in a while, but after one "freeze" everything would work fine as long as I didn't restart EQ. That's basically how everything worked out for me yesterday in WoW. The game looked like it froze, desktop appeared with ATI error submission box, and then I alt+tabbed back in to play the rest of the evening. I did notice occasional geometry issues in outdoor zones, but MC was fine. I don't normally play WoW on the comp with the ATI in it, but I need to replace the power supply in my primary comp.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 1:41 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Chidoro wrote:Thanks. By Geo, I meant Geoforce. I guess that's what I associate nVidia w/.
If you try to look up any information on the Nvidia cards, try looking around for Geforce. It might get more results than Geoforce.

What can I say, I'm a pc simpleton sometimes.

I have only had the ATI issues come up regularly in SWG (when I played it) and yesterday in WoW. I also remember it in EQ once in a while, but after one "freeze" everything would work fine as long as I didn't restart EQ. That's basically how everything worked out for me yesterday in WoW. The game looked like it froze, desktop appeared with ATI error submission box, and then I alt+tabbed back in to play the rest of the evening. I did notice occasional geometry issues in outdoor zones, but MC was fine. I don't normally play WoW on the comp with the ATI in it, but I need to replace the power supply in my primary comp.

Thanks for the info. There are definite geometry issues with lines and blocks flickering in certain areas. I guess the card just isn't well integrated for this game. That would seem odd considering the number of folks who play it, but I guess replacement is probably the best route.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 25, 2006, 1:49 pm

Chidoro wrote:i'd also be curious if anyone has heard of others having difficulty with the 9700 Pro for various apps.

WoW ran fine on my 9600 Pro and still does on the wife's 8500. Either card occasionally bogs down on raids.

Make sure you have AGP fast write turned off, I had issues with a number of games when it was turned on with both PCs.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 25, 2006, 2:07 pm

Make sure you have AGP fast write turned off, I had issues with a number of games when it was turned on with both PCs.

Very good tip!

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 3:03 pm

Turn off that option in my general windows display option settings, not just the specific game's? I'm obviously not at home right now so I can't view what to select/de-select firsthand.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 25, 2006, 4:40 pm

Chidoro wrote:Turn off that option in my general windows display option settings, not just the specific game's? I'm obviously not at home right now so I can't view what to select/de-select firsthand.

It will be an option in your bios... under Advanced Chipset Features, Advanced : CHIP Configuration or something similarly worded.

If you don't feel comfortable fiddling around in the bios, check your Catalyst Control Panel (assuming you installed it) for a SMARTGART menu. You can disable fastwrites there.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 25, 2006, 4:48 pm

If that fails, update the chipset drivers for your motherboard.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 5:28 pm

Yeah, I have catalyst control, I forget the version number but it was updated as of yesterday on the website. It's the only way to update their Radeon drivers. It's not a terribly intuitive process imo, I'd just like to see my card with my most recent drivers available as opposed to the way the website lists it. I'll reboot and f12 it first to look for it. Out of curiousity, what is fast write and why would it cause an issue?

A lot of good advice and I really appreciate it.

miir · Post by **miir** » April 25, 2006, 5:43 pm

Chidoro wrote:Yeah, I have catalyst control, I forget the version number but it was updated as of yesterday on the website. It's the only way to update their Radeon drivers. It's not a terribly intuitive process imo, I'd just like to see my card with my most recent drivers available as opposed to the way the website lists it. I'll reboot and f12 it first to look for it. Out of curiousity, what is fast write and why would it cause an issue?

A lot of good advice and I really appreciate it.

It's possile to download only the drivers.
When I popped my 9600 in last week, I only downloaded the basic drivers... 10 megs or so. I didn't want all the catalyst control panel/center crap for the brief time I'd be using it.

AGP fast write is supposed to speed up AGP read performance. In actuality, it has little-to-no performance impact. In many cases, with many AGP cards (especially ATI) it can result in crashes and system instability. I personally don't know enough about why it causes crashes, just that it does... on some systems, on some games and with some cards. Disabling it will not have any negative impact.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 25, 2006, 10:34 pm

FYI, on the Catalyst Control, there are also AGP Write and AGP Read choices as well as the Fast Write. Are either of these of any consequence?