Suggestions for building a computer

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 2:12 pm

The problem I run into is that my credit is in ruins right now so I can't get a credit card and simplify this by asking you guys for specific pieces you recommend.

Instead im going to be looking on saving up $1300-$1500 over the next few months. What I am looking for is sites that will put together suggestions for total packages, like http://www.arstechnica.com..

So that when the time comes Ive got something to go off, I know roughly what I am looking for, but I have never put a computer together piece by piece before.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 18, 2006, 2:21 pm

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=16442

Conserve resources.. Use existing threads!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 18, 2006, 2:22 pm

X2 3800+: $297
DFI Lanparty SLI 939: $190
2GB G. Skill Dual-Channel PC3200: $200
X1900XT (note that the XT is not the highest-end model this time): $500
Antec Neopower 550W: $118

Total: $1305.

Add some Arctic Silver 5 (simply follow the instructions they give) and maybe a super duper HSF for your processor (add $40-$60) and you'll be all set. The parts I've listed are all the best in their class for overclocking and reliability, taking price into account. Upon request, I'll list some benchmarks for the video card.

In 6 months, I'd expect this same rig to cost $1000 - $1100. It will run Battlefield 2 on 1900 resolution in a congested game with nothing under 30 FPS. It will run FEAR on 1600x1200 with max settings without going under 40 FPS.

If you need a new case to go along with it, I'll look some up, but Winnow is much more adequately affiliated with cases than I.

If you want a Crossfire setup, you'll obviously need a different motherboard. If you don't know what "Crossfire" means, then don't worry about this paragraph. I chose the motherboard I did because Nvidia will undoubtedly leapfrog ATI in the upcoming months in retaliation to the current ATI dominance, and is the time when you'd be most likely go to SLI or Crossfire. The Crossfire motherboard offerings are slim right now, and you really, honestly only need one X1900XT for any game that is currently on shelves.

All prices are from Newegg. Don't let anybody else build your computer. Save money. It's fun to do.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » February 18, 2006, 3:05 pm

Leo is right. I made the mistake of buying a prebuilt machine out of laziness. About 2 months later I built a better machine for about 400 bucks less.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 3:45 pm

What do you think about this build ? Everything total for me would be like 1300.

I don't need a monitor, I have a dvd burner, I dont need a mouse & keyboard.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/sys ... 0601.ars/3

I changed to the dual core processor he listed, but thats what I was thinking about.[/url]

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 18, 2006, 4:32 pm

Wrong wrong wrong. The video card is the most important piece when building a new rig. Just look at this benchmark. Note that the 7800GT isn't even on the chart, yet its older brother, the 7800GTX, is on the bottom of the list. In games released within 6 months, the 7800GT you want to get won't even work on high resolutions (let alone work at a playable framerate). Build for the future!

Build the computer yourself, and get a 2x better computer for the same price. New computers are built to be worthy for games of the future, not the present!

Also, I try to keep up to date on motherboards, but I've never heard of that one. Research some forums thoroughly and find out if that's reputable. If there's one component of a computer which should be premium, make it the motherboard, or you'll be frustrated for years to come.

The nVidia 6800GS is an excellent card if the 7800GT is not affordable; at the price point of the Hot Rod, the performance gains that the 7800GT makes are well worth the money. If you want to break the bank, go for the new GeForce 7800GTX 512MB or ATI Radeon X1900XTX—if you can find one.

That they would even compare the $750 GTX to the $600 XTX in the same breath is hogwash. The benchmark above clearly shows that the XTX deserves a 20 foot higher pedestal than the more expensive GTX, and it shows their laziness that they would dare recommend the 512MB GTX to anybody!

You'll pay $1300 if you build it yourself and get the XT instead of the GT.

You'll pay $1300 if you don't build it yourself and get the GT instead of the XT.

No brainer.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 4:52 pm

Well let me elaborate a bit, I wasn't all that specific in my first post.

I play WoW. This is probably the only thing I will use my computer for until a better mmorpg comes out (I don't plan on playing vanguard), and I may pick up eq2 again. So probably all it will be running for the next 2+ years is WoW and EQ2.

That's it, I don't play anything else. So, I want a 2.8ghz equivelant AMD processor, 2 gigs of ram, ok soundcard, 250g hard drive, video card I want to be a 256 pci express, and I don't want the very top of the line as it would put me over my target price with all things considered, and I dont need top of the line to play WoW.

The other components I need I don't really have a preference on. Newegg seemed to be overpriced compared to the sites that the article i linked referenced, but I may not have looked at the model numbers right.

There, a little more specifics on what im looking for.

And that link I provided wasn't someone thats going to build it for me, its just suggestions. I don't know enough about building computers to do it on my own without someone else telling me what is compatible is basically what it boils down to.

Oh, and I do need a case. So, would your suggestions work and still keep it withing 1300-1500? I definately don't want to go over that.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 18, 2006, 4:57 pm

the 7800GT will not play any game that is released two years from now. I doubt an X1900XT would, either.

If all you want to do is play WoW, then what on earth are you doing spending $1300 on a rig? Huuuuge waste. Get something that plays WoW ($600 will do the trick, easily), and then buy a new $1300 rig in two years when that next MMO comes out.

And that link I provided wasn't someone thats going to build it for me, its just suggestions. I don't know enough about building computers to do it on my own without someone else telling me what is compatible is basically what it boils down to.

If you're serious about building, we can have a PM discussion and I'll go step-by-step over what needs to be done. Building a computer's a breeze once you get into it. And there's no better way to keep several hundred dollars for yourself.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 5:10 pm

Leonaerd wrote:the 7800GT will not play any game that is released two years from now. I doubt an X1900XT would, either.

If all you want to do is play WoW, then what on earth are you doing spending $1300 on a rig? Huuuuge waste. Get something that plays WoW ($600 will do the trick, easily), and then buy a new $1300 rig in two years when that next MMO comes out.

And that link I provided wasn't someone thats going to build it for me, its just suggestions. I don't know enough about building computers to do it on my own without someone else telling me what is compatible is basically what it boils down to.
If you're serious about building, we can have a PM discussion and I'll go step-by-step over what needs to be done. Building a computer's a breeze once you get into it. And there's no better way to keep several hundred dollars for yourself.

Well, I am going to be getting a place with my girlfriend shortly, and after that point it will probably be a LONG time before I'll have the money for a computer, so I want to do it now while I still can.

Once I get further along in the process I'll probably pm you or something to see if you can help me with throwing it all together.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » February 18, 2006, 5:31 pm

if you just want to play wow, get a mac! ladies love macs.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 18, 2006, 6:25 pm

Bah, did my other posts vanish? If you search, there are long threads discussing the pros and cons of current generaton options for buiding a computer. Search for "Tagan". I think I mention that in all of the threads.

For stability, performance, drivers etc. the nVidia 7800GT is the card to get. Even better, the cheapest 7800GT is one of the best performers. If you're looking for a quiet PC, you may need to buy a Zalman fan to repace your video card's fan as they can be loud. (That's also described, with pictures, in another thread)

This thread has a lot of info in it. The prices have probably dropped since then:

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=16320

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 7:16 pm

Thanks everyone.

And thanks winnow, I dont think I even remember seeing that thread when you originally posted it, lots of good info.

My friend is trying to talk me about of building a new computer right now.

I have a P4 2.6, 1 gig ddr ram, a really really shitty 128mb agp card (the cheapest one circuit city had).. He said I should just upgrade my ram, hard drive, and video card.. thing is by the time I did all that I would only be like 400 dollars short of building the computer you suggested in that thread winnow.. so I may as well just stick with starting all over.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2006, 7:49 pm

Ok, the plot thickens.

Currently I have two computers. One is a older P3 that I use for downloading torrents and such, and for internet while im playing a game on the other.. The newer is the p4 I have for games.

With the Mid range suggestion you made winnow, how much would it be able to handle simultaneously while I was playing wow/eq2.. Would internet be the extent.. or could I easily have shit like a cd burning or a torrent downloading while on wow at the same time. My internet connection is not a concern of mine, as ive had these things both going on at the same time on two seperate computers on the same internet connection, its just a matter of what the computer I would build itself could handle.

Im sorry if my wording sucks, I was having trouble relaying exactly what I was trying to say..

Also, what would your recommendation be for a good hard drive ? That is the only thing I will need to add to what you have listed. I would prefer something around 200-250 gig.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 18, 2006, 8:01 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:O
With the Mid range suggestion you made winnow, how much would it be able to handle simultaneously while I was playing wow/eq2.. Would internet be the extent.. or could I easily have shit like a cd burning or a torrent downloading while on wow at the same time. My internet connection is not a concern of mine, as ive had these things both going on at the same time on two seperate computers on the same internet connection, its just a matter of what the computer I would build itself could handle.

With a dual core, you can play Wow or EQ 2 which would take full use of one core and your graphics card and easily use the other core for basic computer functions while burning DVDs, encoding video, etc without any impact or very minimal impact to your game.

Basically, a dual core just makes everything run smoother and s long as you have 2GB of ram, you don't spend a lot of time thinking about what's currently running on you're running on your computer anymore.

There are things to consider...like if you are downloading 1000's of images off the internet on a newsgroup using high bandwidth and then loading lots of graphics off the same hard drive, your HD may bottleneck things...that's why using a Raptor (high speed OS/primamry apps hard drive) for your Operating System and apps/game while having a second large HD for storing your media is a good thing.

Downloading a torrent in the background isn't a big deal. I can bandwidth limit my newsleecher app if I want to make sure I have enough for an online game. It's only a factor if you're doing two online things at once and if you have low bandwidth. Most games don't take that much bandwidth...althoug games like Second Life do take a lot as it downloads all of the textures for each zone if not cached.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 20, 2006, 1:39 am

Leonaerd wrote:the 7800GT will not play any game that is released two years from now. I doubt an X1900XT would, either.

That right there is a laughable statement

I know you are an ATI fanboi but come on!

Your 1305 price includes....

No Freakin case ($90)
No Freakin Soundcard ($35 cheap or $75 decent)
No Freakin Harddrive (Single HD $100? depending on space)
No Freakin Windows ($55)
No Freakin DVD R Drive ($50)

Now we are at $1500+... recommending a 500 dollar soundcard in a budget system that you claim (I disagree) will not play any game that comes out in 2 years is silly

And to recommend a 3800 X2 over an opteron 170 would also be silly but that is far more a matter of personal choice.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 20, 2006, 3:22 am

Pherr wrote:Your 1305 price includes....

No Freakin case ($90)
No Freakin Soundcard ($35 cheap or $75 decent)
No Freakin Harddrive (Single HD $100? depending on space)
No Freakin Windows ($55)
No Freakin DVD R Drive ($50)

Read the whole thread, Pherr.

Funkmasterr wrote:So, I want a 2.8ghz equivelant AMD processor, 2 gigs of ram, ok soundcard, 250g hard drive, video card I want to be a 256 pci express

I didn't include a hard drive because I assumed (before to the above^ post existed) he would be keeping the old one. Winnow later suggested a hard drive, so I stayed away from it. =P

-No sound card leaves room for a much better video card. If Funk decides to get one instead, more power to him. He asked for advice and I gave (go X-fi!).
-A case is an unnecessary expense for a rig (I've had my case for three motherboards, three video cards, three processors, and two RAM upgrades). Funk also didn't request one.
-Windows is free (and any semi-intelligent turd can add $50 to the price tag if a licensed copy is desired).
-Funk specifically requested no DVD drive included in the purchase:

Funkmasterr wrote:I don't need a monitor, I have a dvd burner, I dont need a mouse & keyboard.

Pherr wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:the 7800GT will not play any game that is released two years from now. I doubt an X1900XT would, either.
That right there is a laughable statement I know you are an ATI fanboi but come on!

I'm not sure what my statement had to do with being an ATI fanboi (though I am one for sure!), but if a 6600 can adequately play Vanguard, then I'll eat my words.

Pherr wrote:And to recommend a 3800 X2 over an opteron 170 would also be silly but that is far more a matter of personal choice.

An Opteron 170 is $100 more. Cheaper processor = better video card. A 3800 gets overclocked to 4800 speeds with the click of a mouse.

recommending a 500 dollar soundcard in a budget system that you claim (I disagree) will not play any game that comes out in 2 years is silly

Is recommending a new case for a "budget" system (when none was requested) any less silly? Again... personal preference. If he wants one, and has a brain larger than an acorn, $1305 + $xxx is a calculator click away.

I gave advice, giving Funkmasterr the benefit of the doubt in terms of being able to add a case to the price if desired, and a licensed copy of Windows if desired, as well. Since they're both optional and a matter of personal preference, I left them out.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 20, 2006, 5:55 pm

To play WOW all you need is a 2GHz CPU, a giggity of RAM and any video card that's less than 2years old.

---

Sure the x1900 crossfire throws out some pretty impressive benchmark scores, but who the fuck is gonna shell out $600 X2 for a fucking video card.

Even the x1900 XT will put you back $500.

For half that, you can pick up a 7800GT which will run pretty much any game you play now with decent framerates at a reasonable reso like 1280X1024. Heck, even my 6800 runs all the games I play at 12X10 at an acceptable framerate.

Unless you're fucking retarded or rolling in cash, never, ever by the *latest and greatest* video card. Get the model thats been out for 6+ months. You'll save yourself a ton of cash.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » February 20, 2006, 8:01 pm

uh i can download like 8 torrents browse the web and watch movies while playing wow on my shitty xp 1700+ with 768 megs of ram.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 20, 2006, 11:27 pm

Stragi wrote:uh i can download like 8 torrents browse the web and watch movies while playing wow on my shitty xp 1700+ with 768 megs of ram.

Yeah, but not everyone is as leet as you stragi

Neost · Post by **Neost** » February 21, 2006, 11:36 am

what he doesn't tell you is that he's playing wow on his shitty xp1700+ w/768 megs of ram but he's downloading those 8 torrents on a different box, surfing the web on yet another shitty box, and watching movies on his 13' black and white tv.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 21, 2006, 4:41 pm

Neost wrote:what he doesn't tell you is that he's playing wow on his shitty xp1700+ w/768 megs of ram but he's downloading those 8 torrents on a different box, surfing the web on yet another shitty box, and watching movies on his 13' black and white tv.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » February 21, 2006, 5:28 pm

i'm really being honest. i have to turn off avast though, or it takes like 10 minutes to load a movie. and it probably helps that i use uTorrent instead of a client that opens seperate instances for each torrent.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 21, 2006, 6:25 pm

That they would even compare the $750 GTX to the $600 XTX in the same breath is hogwash. The benchmark above clearly shows that the XTX deserves a 20 foot higher pedestal than the more expensive GTX, and it shows their laziness that they would dare recommend the 512MB GTX to anybody!

I did some digging for benchmarks and the x1900 XTX vs the 7800 GTX.

Best case scenario, the XTX bests the GTX by around 20% in BF2 @ 16x12 4xFSAA and 16xAS.... sounds impressive, but who the hell can tell the difference between 87 and 103 frames per second?

Found another benchmark for that Chonicles of Riddick game where the GTX smokes the XTX.

In COD2, the XTX is considerably better than the GTX, but the framerates are still double what would be considered an acceptable framerate.

Doom3 benchmark was won by the GTX.

Far Cry was pretty much a dead heat between the 2.

Half Life 2, too close to call.

Quake 4 was owned by the GTX in the higher resos with the eye candy cranked.

To say that the x1900 XTX is in a different league than the 7800 GTX makes you sound like a knob-slobbering ATI fanboy. I like ATI cards and I like nVidia cards. Both companies make great cards, but I would give nVidia a very slim advantage due to consistently better drivers.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 21, 2006, 7:18 pm

ATi is just lucky to be competing again with nVidia after being blown out of the water for the past year and a half. ATi's new release is competitive. It's not a release similar to the Radeon 9700 Pro where it dominated for the same 1-2 years.

It appears this 1900XTX will be blip on the radar between major nVidia releases. I'll switch back to ATi if they pull ahead and maintain stable drivers, but this card isn't significant enough.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 21, 2006, 8:23 pm

Miir wrote:Best case scenario, the XTX bests the GTX by around 20% in BF2 @ 16x12 4xFSAA and 16xAS.... sounds impressive, but who the hell can tell the difference between 87 and 103 frames per second?

Miir wrote:In COD2, the XTX is considerably better than the GTX, but the framerates are still double what would be considered an acceptable framerate.

Yes, anything above 30 FPS is considered fluid (to most) and any difference is basically superfluous. What's important is considering how those statistics pave the way for future games. Let's say the XTX can run Battlefield 3 at 20 FPS, but the GTX can run it at only 10 FPS. Draw your own conclusions from there (The XTX and the GTX can both run UT 2k4 at over 100 FPS [etc]).

miir · Post by **miir** » February 21, 2006, 8:28 pm

Leonaerd wrote:
Miir wrote:Best case scenario, the XTX bests the GTX by around 20% in BF2 @ 16x12 4xFSAA and 16xAS.... sounds impressive, but who the hell can tell the difference between 87 and 103 frames per second?

Miir wrote:In COD2, the XTX is considerably better than the GTX, but the framerates are still double what would be considered an acceptable framerate.
Yes, anything above 30 FPS is considered fluid (to most) and any difference is basically superfluous. What's important is considering how those statistics pave the way for future games. Let's say the XTX can run Battlefield 3 at 20 FPS, but the GTX can run it at only 10 FPS. Draw your own conclusions from there (The XTX and the GTX can both run UT 2k4 at over 100 FPS [etc]).

My point is, just drop $200-250 on a card NOW that will run today's games fine NOW. Two years (or more) down the road, do the same thing.

No point in spending $600 on a card NOW that you won't even reap any noticeable benefit from until 2 years later.

That is unless you have the money to spare and absolutely MUST have the lastest and greatest video card to brag to your friends about.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 21, 2006, 8:45 pm

My point is, just drop $200-250 on a card NOW that will run today's games fine NOW. Two years (or more) down the road, do the same thing.

No point in spending $600 on a card NOW that you won't even reap any noticeable benefit from until 2 years later.

That is unless you have the money to spare and absolutely MUST have the lastest and greatest video card to brag to your friends about.

Resell the $500 card once you get the next model. It will cost the ~same as your proposed method, the difference being the current performance difference. Resell value will be high because of how often new video cards come out. A $200 card can't run F.E.A.R. on highest settings and will be troublesome to sell.

It's all personal preference. Funk's free to ignore my advice, so post your advice and let's not attack each other.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 21, 2006, 8:51 pm

Resell value of any video card in existance is $0 to me, I dunno what kind of tit would be buying your old cards... I guess you can sell anything on eBay.

For a start, your 2 year old card has a 2 year old fan on, so you're spending more money by about then to put an aftermarket fan on. At least that's an option now.. I had people trying to sell me on cards that would "last 4 years" when it had a fan you couldn't remove that was bound to be clagged and useless in 2.

Edit: actually, forget eBay, I see a BFG 5900 Ultra (1 year old) that's selling for $100 and has zero (0) bids.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 22, 2006, 12:37 am

Edit: actually, forget eBay, I see a BFG 5900 Ultra (1 year old) that's selling for $100 and has zero (0) bids.

Yeah, because you can get a 6600 for about the same price, brand new.
Even a radeon x800, which sold for over $600 when it came out 2 years ago can be picked up for under $150 now.

The tech burn, especially on video cards means that a 2 year old card is virtually worthless... especially used.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 22, 2006, 8:02 am

I give my old cards away mostly. Typically I can find someone that will make good used of my old cards. My last was a 6800GT so not too bad still. It's just a fact of life that you're not going to resell video cards for much and it's not worth the hassle.

I've given away, I don' know how many megs of ram, cards and other stuff. Every time, it's made someone's computing experience a lot better. Do the right thing! Help out peeps with crappy systems!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 22, 2006, 10:42 am

I have never heard of anyone actually being able to sell a 2 year old card for any decent amount, so I must call bullshit on that one. Typically, I am able to give my old stuff away, but I doubt I could get the people to give me five bucks for them. The reason is that these are the people that have been using the same computer for about 5 years without any real wish to upgrade. What they have works for them.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 22, 2006, 11:06 am

I think I am pretty well set on the computer winnow put together in the thread linked above.

The video card there might not be as good as the ATI, but with the SLI motherboard, if I add a second video card down the road I can't imagine I would have trouble running anything unless I was running it on a 50 inch tv..

miir · Post by **miir** » February 22, 2006, 12:50 pm

Winnow wrote:I give my old cards away mostly. Typically I can find someone that will make good used of my old cards. My last was a 6800GT so not too bad still. It's just a fact of life that you're not going to resell video cards for much and it's not worth the hassle.

I've given away, I don' know how many megs of ram, cards and other stuff. Every time, it's made someone's computing experience a lot better. Do the right thing! Help out peeps with crappy systems!

Boogahz wrote:I have never heard of anyone actually being able to sell a 2 year old card for any decent amount, so I must call bullshit on that one. Typically, I am able to give my old stuff away, but I doubt I could get the people to give me five bucks for them. The reason is that these are the people that have been using the same computer for about 5 years without any real wish to upgrade. What they have works for them.

Same here.
My old hardware wither gets cascaded to another system or given away to friends/relatives.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 22, 2006, 4:47 pm

Funk wrote:The video card there might not be as good as the ATI, but with the SLI motherboard, if I add a second video card down the road I can't imagine I would have trouble running anything unless I was running it on a 50 inch tv..

Just don't wait -too- long to get the second card, or you'll have spent bad money. It's best to either be happy with one card, or get them both at the same time.