Yes, this is like beating a dead horse.....

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » December 9, 2002, 11:52 am

But it's still funny as hell to laugh at this waste of biomass we like to call the president.

http://www.gwbush.com/copies/trans.html

Click here for another interesting read.

*edit* Sorry, this one is a tad easier on the eyes

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » December 9, 2002, 9:11 pm

you're still a homo

Pubin · Post by **Pubin** » December 9, 2002, 9:33 pm

Yeah, for those that dont know, Connie Rice is actually the president.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » December 9, 2002, 11:41 pm

Der Spiegel is the German equivilent of the National Enquirer, taking their articles seriously is like taking Kyoukan seriously.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 10, 2002, 1:08 am

Der Spiegel is nothing, nothing like the Enquirer. It is one of hte most widely respected publications in Europe.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » December 10, 2002, 1:40 am

who to believe...

TIG?

Ulvian · Post by **Ulvian** » December 10, 2002, 5:51 am

Der Spiegel is in fact a pretty respected publication.

And Bush is in fact an idiot with more love for his gun,than this nation.

I still remember when he was planning to begin development of satelite mounted lasers...(This boy was going to give us Star Wars...w/o the Jedi)

Problem being that his little idea went directly against the geneva convention.

It is also a fact that idiocy runs DEEP in the Bush (Tm) Bloodline...Bush Senior had Saddam at the end of a fork...but left him be...and look at this shit goin on now.

Hmm...you guys figure...Searyx = George Bush IRL?

Deward · Post by **Deward** » December 10, 2002, 10:42 am

Saddam was left alone before because to remove him would have destabilized the entire middle east. We barely had a lot of those countries on our side. You can't just expect countries like Yemen to instantly want to be friends and love us after so many years of hate. Afghanistan/Soviet war had been over that long and there was still bad feelings towards America from that. I am guessing that they(Saudis, Egypt) put a lot pressure on Bush Sr. to leave Saddam in power because they were more afraid of having a USA puppet government there instead.

Personally I wish they would of just shot the towel head AND put a puppet government there. We could use a good source of oil.

Deward

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 10, 2002, 11:28 am

THX RACIST!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 11:46 am

And Bush is in fact an idiot with more love for his gun,than this nation.

I still remember when he was planning to begin development of satelite mounted lasers...(This boy was going to give us Star Wars...w/o the Jedi)

Problem being that his little idea went directly against the geneva convention.

It is also a fact that idiocy runs DEEP in the Bush (Tm) Bloodline...Bush Senior had Saddam at the end of a fork...but left him be...and look at this shit goin on now.

1. Bush is responding to the attacks on 9/11. He is going after the people who may have had a hand is past attacks and who may very well be at the core of future attacks. Is oil a part of it to? Hell yes it is. Unfortunately we rely on this barbaric source of energy, so we must do what is necessary to insure we have a sufficient, low-cost supply of it. Will the Bush empire and friends stand to profit as a result? Yep. But, it's the greater good you need to look at.

2. Star Wars is a good thing and is not dead. I would rather have a defensive system in place, than to just trust no one will shoot missles at us. It's naive and juvenile to believe so. Remember 9/11. Think about how evil people are out there in the real world. Just sitting back and not bothering anyone in hopes they will leave us alone is just stupid. Being pro-active is a good thing.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 11:56 am

there is no established link between Iraq and 9/11. if there was we wouldnt be having to work so fucking hard to find a reason to bomb this guy. if there were a real link between 9/11 and Iraq we'd already be 6 months into full scale military operations there.

the issue of whether or not Iraq is a threat to the region and beyond is certainly valid topic for the security council and the US to be contemplating military action over.

but any mention of 9/11 in the context of Iraq is nothing more than rhetoric and propaganda intended to manipulate public opinion.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 10, 2002, 12:25 pm

I'll be interested to see what spin Dubya and Co. will come up with to justify military action now that the UN Inspectors have basically come up empty handed. I predict some videos of gassed kittens or something from 10 years ago.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 12:42 pm

i think it is premature to say the inspectors have come up empty handed.

i believe they will continue inspections through Jan 27th or so.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 10, 2002, 12:54 pm

I don't think it's premature at all. If they had found anything even slightly out of line so far, the US would be all over Iraq. When it is all over, I forsee some vague "dual purpose" explaination for war, which they cannot divulge the specifics because other countries would then have knowledge the US dosen't want them to have. Whatever.

I have never seen a country push so hard for war. I'm ashamed in our leadership and the role they have chosen to play in this. From what I have seen so far, the whole reasoning behind this war is a farce. I want evidence.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 1:05 pm

You don't deserve evidence. You don't run the country. Our elected officials do.

Plus, the only reason you think the government is so eager to go to war is because of the way the media is portaying it all.

I see the government as playing a proactive role. The man is fucking scum, we all know this. So who fucking cares?

This is no different than the attitude about the criminal who gets away free because a policeman didn't read his miranda rights. The fucker is still guilty.

Saddam is still a piece of shit. I personally don't care at what means our government may use as reason to kill him.

You "nice" people are the ones who allowed 9/11 to be so easily carried out.

Being "nice" will get you fucked. This naive attitude is nice when you're a kid, but it's time to grow up.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 10, 2002, 1:13 pm

This is how it is going to go down.

1: The UN will not find enough to warrant military action and the US will back off.

2: A major city (New York, London, Paris) or country (Israel) will go up in a mushroom cloud and it will be determined that Iraq was responsible.

3: The world unites and squashes Saddam leaving US with a big, "I told you so" grin on it's face.

Just my thought.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 1:24 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You don't deserve evidence. You don't run the country. Our elected officials do.

what country do you live in LOL. elected officials owe their ELECTORATE explanations for all their actions should they be asked. in certain circumstances it is in the interest of national security to not disclose such information, but that isnt the case here.

.

I see the government as playing a proactive role. The man is fucking scum, we all know this. So who fucking cares?

because you are convinced that the US should kill Saddam does not mean the other 250,000,000 citizens of this country are, nor should they hold the same opinion as you regarding methods of regime management.

This is no different than the attitude about the criminal who gets away free because a policeman didn't read his miranda rights. The fucker is still guilty.

i'm not sure this one is getting away for starters. otherwise irrelevant point.

Saddam is still a piece of shit. I personally don't care at what means our government may use as reason to kill him.

You "nice" people are the ones who allowed 9/11 to be so easily carried out.

Being "nice" will get you fucked. This naive attitude is nice when you're a kid, but it's time to grow up.

are you sure it wasnt the queers and feminists who killed all the people on 9/11?

to suggest a democratically elected government doesnt owe its populace an explanation for military actions that will cost hundreds of billions of dollars at a time when inflation, unemployment, and corporate collapses are on the rise is more absurd than naive.

i think that it is a very sellable point, but the government absolutely owes its citizens an explanation of why it is going to send out members of its military to die, get maimed, and otherwise injured for a greater purpose. if the administration cannot convince the people then they are lack some of the skills required to excel at their job, or their reasons are not worthy.

i think this is a case the administration can sell, but god forbid they have to work to convince the legislature to spend a few hundred billion dollars.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » December 10, 2002, 1:34 pm

That one (albeit satirical) article gave Bush an estimated IQ of 91. Am I the only person who thinks 91 might be a tad bit generous?

Animale · Post by **Animale** » December 10, 2002, 1:38 pm

I think what drives Saddam now is not the thought of revenge, but the thought of remaining in power in his country. He knows that making weapons of mass destruction (particularly nuclear weapons) is a sure fire way to lose his power, therefore I don't think that at this time he's actively pursuing nukes, although the biological/chemical weapons he already had may not be all out of circulation.

In a sense, the best way for him to have revenge on the war mongers in the U.S. is to remain in power because he has come "clean" about his weapons programs. Sweet irony if he somehow becomes the good guy in all this (assuming the U.S. attacks without UN support).

And Midnyte... shut your fucking pie hole. If I'm going to go to war, damn straight I want evidence. No, the elected officials DO NOT run this country, I DO and so do all the voting public. It's total and complete bullshit to say that we don't deserve evidence when its our money, our friends/relatives directly involved in the fighting. And the media in the US is trying damn hard to sell this war, and in large part its succeeding. Its ignorant pricks like you who don't understand what war is who want to go fight one. WAR IS HELL. Good people die in war and I, for one, want to be sure that whatever we are fighting for is not an unjust thing.

Animale

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 1:40 pm

to suggest a democratically elected government doesnt owe its populace an explanation for military actions that will cost hundreds of billions of dollars at a time when inflation, unemployment, and corporate collapses are on the rise is more absurd than naive.

Why do we vote these people in if we don't trust them to act on our behave with our best interest in mind? Isn't this the intention in the whole voting thing we do?

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » December 10, 2002, 1:56 pm

The Supreme Court elected this president, not the people.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » December 10, 2002, 2:15 pm

Toshira wrote:The Supreme Court elected this president, not the people.

The Supreme Court has absolutely nothing to do with electing a president. It's the 'Electorial College' that puts a president in office. It is possible for a president to lose the popular vote but still win the presidency. JFK also did not recieve a majority of votes and he's considered one of the most popular presidents in history. Go figure.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 10, 2002, 2:16 pm

Toshira wrote:The Supreme Court elected this president, not the people.

Yes. Because the people who wanted to vote for Gore were too STUPID to be able to do something as simple as punch a hole next to the name they wanted. There should be an intelligence test like this for every election.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 10, 2002, 2:16 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:I don't think it's premature at all. If they had found anything even slightly out of line so far, the US would be all over Iraq.

You do realize the inspectors have only been there a week right?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 2:18 pm

the Supreme Court didnt "elect" GWBush, but they were involved in the interpretation of the election results.

from what i've read though, the various research that was done regarding the awarding of the Florida Electoral votes, and hence the presidency, is that Bush would have won Florida even if the voting irregularities in West Palm Beach and related areas were resolved to the Democrats liking.

So in other words, the outcome would have been the same with or without hanging, dimpled, or otherwise defiled chads.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » December 10, 2002, 2:23 pm

1. The ends NEVER justify the means.

2. For those of you who were obviously not alive during the 80's, we created Saddam. You don't clean up your messes by killing them, or blowing them up.

3. Star Wars is a cash cow, pork project, total PoS pushed by republicans for their weapon manufacturing friends. Terrorists don't use ICBM's, and Star Wars does Jack and Shit against a suicide bomber/hijacker.

As for the topic of the thread (sorry hijack feeding), Bush is an idiot.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 10, 2002, 2:43 pm

Not this thread again. I also agree that inspectors will find jack, and if we find some piss poor excuse to invade anyway I will be pissed. For the record, I am all for removing Saddam, but only with overwhelming evidence to warrant it. I support Bush 100% so far, but if he invades without SOLID proof, I'll feel betrayed.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 2:52 pm

Fuck Midnyte, thats even more retarded than usual, surely you must

teh cock?

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » December 10, 2002, 3:02 pm

The report Iraq gave to the UN is 10,000+ pages long. I think Voronwe hit it right on the nose saying this will be on going until late January...at least.
Here is the story from a NON-U.S. media source: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.p ... #compstory

Some interesting reading from our british friends: http://www.usinfo.state.gov/regional/ne ... ossier.pdf

Just some things to ponder if your heavy into these things. I try to find articles by media agencies not found in North America...but they all have the same theme underlining every story, It is not Iraq that is the problem, but the regime that takes up residence as its government.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 3:09 pm

Interesting indeed Kluden

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 10, 2002, 3:23 pm

I agree that Iraq per se isn't the problem, but it's current ruling faction.

So, where does that get us? Nowhere.

Find a way to remove Saddam without going to war and I will support it. Until then, I will support his removal by any reasonable means.

And it's interesting that this is not the first time Saddam has put his innocence in writing. He has submitted documents making the same claims to the U.N. in the past (nine times? something like that). What's funny is that every time he submits a new one, he admits to falsehood in the previous document.

So, shall we believe him this time?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » December 10, 2002, 3:26 pm

Bleah.. nm. Just read the disclaimer that the whole thing was a joke..

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 3:31 pm

Fuck Midnyte, thats even more retarded than usual, surely you must teh cock?

No I'm not a pole smoker. However, I don't see how my sexual preference would have anything to do with my "radical" views.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 3:38 pm

Radical is being awfully kind don't you think?

If you think at all...

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » December 10, 2002, 3:43 pm

Millie:

Yeah I thought 91 was a tad generous. As funny as it would have been had it been a serious study, it would have been pretty easy to smell it out as bullshit without the message at the bottom claiming it as so. Reason being that Reagan should have easily been the 2nd lowest on that list.

Soreali:

Remind me to mail you a cheese sandwich. Gimme a few days though. It takes a few days of not washing in order to get some decent buildup on the ol sack.

As for the digression of this thread, I think that I'll just rehash what's been said before. Saddam is pushing as many buttons as he can without quite tipping over the barrel. He's already accomplished his main goal, which was manipulating the Bush administration into painting itself as a pathetic bunch of war mongerers.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 3:48 pm

Kelgar wrote: He's already accomplished his main goal, which was manipulating the Bush administration into painting itself as a pathetic bunch of war mongerers.

Kelgar, is it not possible that the Bush administration is a pathetic bunch of war mongerers?

I don't think Saddam needed to do anything to accomplish that 'goal'.

Peace

Siji · Post by **Siji** » December 10, 2002, 3:48 pm

Goodness gracious there are some clueless motherfuckers on this thread. Mydnite, when you grow up and are old enough to vote or at least attend a social studies class, come back and voice your opinion. It's quite clear you haven't a clue about the American government, it's purpose, it's origin, what it actually does, and the amount of corruption that is called the Bush family.

You don't deserve evidence. You don't run the country. Our elected officials do.

Our "elected officials" are representatives of the American public. What they do is supposed to represent the majority of America. Perhaps YOU don't care about the taking of lives for profit, but most of us do. We want to know WHY we're going to war and being represented to the rest of the world as war mongers. If we didn't deserve evidence, there would be no such thing as impeachment, no such thing as Watergate, no accountability for an elected officials actions. Being elected doesn't make you God.

Plus, the only reason you think the government is so eager to go to war is because of the way the media is portaying it all.

Here's a tip you'll learn as you get older. The media is a puppet of the government. They say what the government wants them to say. They know only what the government lets them know.

I see the government as playing a proactive role. The man is fucking scum, we all know this. So who fucking cares?

Osama thinks Americans are fucking scum and all his followers don't "fucking care". So obviously them killing Americans must be right eh? Just because you don't like someone doesn't give you the right to kill them. Just because you don't like the way someone is running their country, does not give America the right to topple their leadership to suit it's desires.

This is no different than the attitude about the criminal who gets away free because a policeman didn't read his miranda rights. The fucker is still guilty.

Guess you've never heard of innocent until proven guilty. That implies that you have full rights as an American citizen until proven guilty.

You "nice" people are the ones who allowed 9/11 to be so easily carried out.

Hey dickhead, you're fucking clueless beyond belief. Congratulations on insulting pretty much everyone with a single statement. Perhaps if America didn't train Osama, stick our noses into business that wasn't ours, and perhaps if our government wasn't so fucking bloated and lazy we would have caught the incoming terrorists at the fucking airport when they came in since after all, they were on the watch list, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. But hey, like you said - we the people don't deserve proof so we're pretty ignorant as to what's going on. No way we could have known. Jackass.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » December 10, 2002, 3:51 pm

Teeny, you misread, or rather, misinterpreted.

I never said Bush wasn't a warmongerer to begin with. I merely said that Saddam manipulated him into broadcasting that fact for the entire world to see very clearly.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 4:01 pm

I am in agreement with you there, forgive my earlier nitpicking

It is true that Saddam has shown the U.S government up for what it is.

Cheers

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 4:12 pm

Siji:

I am 30 years old. Most likely, older than you are. People are entitled to have different views on things.

I am sure I would consider many of your views retarded and sub voting age as well.

I have a clue as to how the government works, thank vey much. I also have a big problem with this "entitlement" frenzy people think they have a right to have.

When I say we don't have a right to know, it's because the masses are retarded illiterates who need electorates to help them think for themselves. It is our elected officials job's to politic. We just do it as a hobby.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 10, 2002, 4:23 pm

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That's why we (as in the public) have the right to know what is going on and why.

We put them there, we can take them away.

Thx!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 4:25 pm

Action of the Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America wrote:Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

governments in general may not be answerable to their electorate, but the one we are talking about here is.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 10, 2002, 4:42 pm

Out of curiosity, How many people here are of age to be called up if the call goes out?

Personally, I did my time in the 80's and off an on in the early 90's. I am 36 now and still have about 12 years left on my IRR (signed up for 25 years due to special reasons dealing with the job). I know if we do in fact go to war, I will be either taking the post of someone going overseas or they will give my fat ass a weapon with a scope and put me on a roof someplace sandy.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 10, 2002, 5:21 pm

I seriously think you "right-to-know" folks need to go back to civics class.

You have a right to vote a political candidate in or out of office based on his or her actions and decisions during their previous term.

Nowhere, NOFUCKINGWHERE are you given the right to see every piece of intelligence material available to elected officials.

Take your questions and multiply them times the population of the U.S. Now take your potential to say something about sensitive material in an open conversation and apply the same multiplier.

If you still think you have a "right-to-know" you are either totally clueless or under the age of 14.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 5:27 pm

Yeah!

What Fallanthas said.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 10, 2002, 5:52 pm

i think there is a clear difference between asking for classified military intelligence and asking a government to justify how it spends a substantial portion of its budget on a military operation.

yes in one sense that is done in election years.

but on the other hand, the Proceedings of Congress are a public record for a reason.

nobody is suggesting that the US needs to divulge tactical secrets that would endanger military personnel/operations.

hell, the Pentagon and White House have leaked our 'battle plans' to the press already.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » December 10, 2002, 5:56 pm

Aren't you retards that are arguing that people should be sheep and blindly follow their government also staunch supporters of your right to bear arms?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 5:59 pm

Not this retard

I'm all for no firearms what-so-ever, actually.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 10, 2002, 6:00 pm

Midnite Brownnoser and Fallanthas. Together building an insurmountable wall of stupidity so high and long that the mongols will never be able to invade.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 10, 2002, 6:04 pm

Yeppers.

Way to battle wits, with calling someone stupid.

VeeshanVault

Yes, this is like beating a dead horse.....

Yes, this is like beating a dead horse.....

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