What is torture?

[Kargyle]

So, there is a lot of talk abou torture in the media these days. Allegations that the US is secretly transporting prisoners to secret bases in other countries for the purpose of torture, abuse of prisoners at Gitmo, etc. What we seldom here discussed, is exactly what constitutes torture. Obviously some forms of torture are pretty clear. Hooking electrodes up to a person's genitals and zapping them with a car battery, pulling out someone's finger nails, and beating the holy hell out of someone being some of the more clear cases. But what about some of the more insidious cases: sleep deprivation, feeding someone just enough to keep them alive, dosing them with sodium pentathal (sp).

For myself, I recognize that governments must have some recourse when it comes to obtaining information from suspects. I think that the amount of recourse should also be dependent upon the importantance of the information, the credibility of the threat, etc. But, that isn't to say that I think twisting a person's thumb off with a pair of plyers is ever acceptable. Not to mention the reliability of information obtained under those types of circumstances. Ultimately, I have to frame the question to myself like this: If these were American soldiers captured by another force, what could I accept being done to them? It is a hard question to answer honestly. I would contend that anything physically harmful to the body constitues unacceptable torture. However, I struggle with the question of sleep deprivation, or using drugs to get information. I think in the end, while I would rather it did not happen, if the situation is important enough, and the risk is high enough, I can accept it if I have to.

So, what is torture? I think it will be interesting to see how different people define it. Especially between some of our more liberal and conservative patrons.

[Voronwë]

well according to the president's lawyers, any pain shy of the equivalent of organ failure is not torture.

so more or less, apparently there is no such thing, so why bother to define it.

[Boogahz]

Asking for a definition of torture also means you are going to do it!

[Abelard]

Torture to me is the use of physical force to obtain information.

I think that torture is both barbaric and disgusting and I don't believe it is justified or should be acceptable in our society. I think it's a terribly out of date practice that doesn't really net much by way of results. Half of the time governments don't even pick up the right people.

I recall that link posted in this forum awhile ago about that indian man whom was horribly mistreated by american authorities. I don't mean to single americans out like that because I know most countries in the world do employ the use of torture, that was just an example.

Also, any officer or leader who would have any real pertinent information if captured wouldn't bulk to torture anyway. If you believe in your cause strong enough no torture will make you talk.

I feel that we're dealing with a different style of war now adays since the occupation of Iraq and also with zealot terrorists sects. That style I believe is based much more around religion and belief. I highly recommend you read the book Pontiff .. it goes a lot into the history of the man Mehmet Ali Agca who was an Islamic extremist that shot JP2 in the early 80's.

You'll understand so much more the thought patterns of extremists after reading it.

If you want to get someone to speak I think the best approach now would be your standard interrogation techniques. Physical torture just doesn't work.

As for injecting someone with drugs to get information: I feel obliged to disagree with this on a moral grounds. I can't personally condone injecting toxins into someones body against their will. I don't care what they know.

I do agree with you on the point that torture is a tricky topic.

[Lynks]

I'd say more than just physical. Anything that fucks you up mentally can be considered torture.

A constant loud buzzing noise going 24/7 can be considered torture or listening to a Simple Plan CD.

[miir]

I'd say more than just physical. Anything that fucks you up mentally can be considered torture.

A constant loud buzzing noise going 24/7 can be considered torture or listening to a Simple Plan CD.

6+ hours of conference calls could be qualified as torture.

Although on one of them there were 2 fellows named kumar and harold.

[Arborealus]

Condi Rice: The United States does not torture, you silly europeans.

George Bush: The CIA should not be constrained by forbidding it from using torture.

All the skillful subterfuge of a kid crossing his fingers behind his back, lol...

[masteen]

Grinding Timbermaw faction.

We should make all suspected terrorists do it as female night elfs. Osama will be ours in a week.

[Xouqoa]

I don't think I have a problem with psychological torture, but I'm not sure if I can agree with physical torture in order to obtain information.

Telling somebody who you think has information that you need that you are going to execute their family is a lot different than actually doing it, imo. (Please reference Season 2 of 24!)

[Vaemas]

This topic title reminds me of The Thin Red Line.

"What is death?"

[redeemed]

Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony
Something causing severe pain or anguish.

torture
n 1: extreme mental distress [syn: anguish, torment] 2: unbearable physical pain [syn: torment] 3: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned" [syn: agony, torment] 4: the act of distorting something so it seems to mean something it was not intended to mean [syn: distortion, overrefinement, straining, twisting] 5: the act of torturing someone; "it required unnatural torturing to extract a confession" [syn: torturing] v 1: torment emotionally or mentally [syn: torment, excruciate, rack] 2: subject to torture; "The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible" [syn: excruciate, torment]

ooOOOooo

[Abelard]

Well I could argue that the brain itself is a physical part of your being so mental torture could be considered a form of physical torture but I think that would be reaching ..

Either way, I don't condone torture.. there are much more humane ways of getting information now that are that much more effective then torture.

Although, another interesting point I just thought of would be the martyrdom of these people to the rebel iraq army. What better way of uniting the enemy then giving them an example of brave soldiers defending their cause even unto torture?

You remember that story ages ago about that girl that had a couple broken legs/arm and was held hostage? She was pretty much beefed up to hero status when she was expedited back home to America.

[Kargyle]

I dont' want anyone to get the impression that I think torture is alright, because I don't. But I have found that some of the things that I would consider torture, other people don't. And conversely, things that I think are ok (although distasteful), others think of as torture.

As far as what George Bush and his administration have to say, I couldn't care less. Bush has shown more than once that he doesn't have more than a passing familiarity with the truth. I believe very little that comes out of his mouth unless it is about his desire to cut taxes for the rich.

[Zaelath]

I think duration has a lot to do with it; if the guy cracks in the first 5 minutes and gives you good intel, it was probably worth it.

If you have to go at this shit for days, you're not going to get much that's worthwhile out of it at the other end. Hell, you torture someone long enough they'll tell you anything you want to hear, they'll make stuff up, and eventually lose it altogether and start believing their own lies.