Rogue Talent Help

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 4, 2005, 3:08 pm

I've got a 60 rogue on Bloodhoof. I've been trying to work out a talent build, and I figured I'd ask your opinion on some things. I'm looking for a PVE dagger build, suited for MC/BWL raiding. Here is my profile:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?83100

Currently I usually come in #2 in damage out for a MC raid, behind a sword/combat rogue. I'm hoping this may change once a raid dagger drops for us - we've had terrible luck so far.

I've been looking at Adrenaline Rush, and I think its probably a better use of points than cold blood. This is a build I've been considering - 17/34/0 PVE Dagger. I'd probably tweak it to 17/31/3 PVE Dagger, which is based off 17/34 build, without the points in deflection/riposte, since I think the points in master of deception would be more useful.

I've also seen some Seal fate builds - 30/0/13 but I'm not sure how well that will perform.

Any comments are welcome, I value your guys' opinions more than the people on Blizzard's forums!

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 4, 2005, 3:52 pm

If I went dagger... :
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

That build has a lot of filler talents that could be rearranged to your liking.. but you get the idea.

AR is excellent, but its not worth giving up Lethality or Opportunity. If you want to be able to compete with a sword rogue you will need both.

As for Seal Fate...its a limited talent. Its great for low levels with shitty weapons, but you want a build that grows with you.. not one that remains static. Your builds also seem to focus on eviscerate (aggression without improved SS?).. eviscerate pales in comparison to SnD if you have a decent pair of guns. Give it a shot.

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 4, 2005, 4:07 pm

Yes, I've been using mainly eviscerate over SND. I wasn't thinking that SND could match evis's damage (especially since most non boss mobs die shortly after I'm able to generate 5 combo points - I won't be in combat for very long after SND goes off, so the buff will fade outside of combat). edit: but I could use it after 2ish combo points I suppose.

You put 3 in gouge, 2 in improved SS. Was that for use in PVP, or were you suggesting their use in a raid situation?

Other than that your suggested build seems similar to my current. You give up cold blood and instant poison (which I had wanted to do), for some points in combat. Blade flurry will be nice once they fix it.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 4, 2005, 4:27 pm

Would you spec any differently if raid damage wasn't a factor?

My rogue is on a PvP server, so I'm mostly concerned with burst coming out of stealth for gank/countergank. So far I'm 5 Malice, 2 Imp. SS, 3 Imp. Gouge.

I really want to get Prep, so was thinking about doing the Subtelty tree next. Thoughts?

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 4, 2005, 4:28 pm

Yes, I've been using mainly eviscerate over SND. I wasn't thinking that SND could match evis's damage (especially since most non boss mobs die shortly after I'm able to generate 5 combo points - I won't be in combat for very long after SND goes off, so the buff will fade outside of combat).

I had the same thoughts about SnD until I saw what other rogues were producing when they got it. I always figured it was just some worthless bullshit finisher to use if the mob is just about dead anyway. But now that I have it, along with other combat talents, low-aggro white damage makes up anywhere from 60-70% of my damage done. Remember that you don't neccesarily need to have a full 5 combo points to use it.. in fact, one combo point gets you proportionally more than 5 (but then you cut down the benefits of ruthlessness and relentless strikes). However, I read all of this shit when I was considering switching.. and it never really won me over until I tried it. So, If you have the extra cash to give it a try.. go for it.

You put 3 in gouge, 2 in improved SS. Was that for use in PVP, or were you suggesting their use in a raid situation?

Yeah thats what I meant by "filler talents". I likes me some PVP so I prefer gouge over the extra dodge, but really all that matters is getting to the meat of the combat tree.

Other than that your suggested build seems similar to my current. You give up cold blood and instant poison (which I had wanted to do), for some points in combat. Blade flurry will be nice once they fix it.

Blade Fury is still nice, I got it just recently.. after it bugged.. and I still love it. I got it for the extra speed in white damage, very noticeable.. but it also rocks for Firelords and junk.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 4, 2005, 4:35 pm

masteen wrote:Would you spec any differently if raid damage wasn't a factor?

My rogue is on a PvP server, so I'm mostly concerned with burst coming out of stealth for gank/countergank. So far I'm 5 Malice, 2 Imp. SS, 3 Imp. Gouge.

I really want to get Prep, so was thinking about doing the Subtelty tree next. Thoughts?

PVP is a whole different story :}

It all depends on the environment you are PVPing in.. and how you want to play in that environment. For example, I used CB/Prep in Warsong, but I found a combat build to be infinitely more effective in Arathi Basin.

It sounds like you want to be able to gank people in a world environment.. I haven't done any of that, being on a PVE server, but I imagine I would use the cookie cutter CB/Prep dagger build. CB is the ultimate burst gank talent, and Prep is the ultimate counter-gank talent, so there you go ;P

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 4, 2005, 4:38 pm

Cool, pretty much where I was going. Thanks.

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 4, 2005, 4:51 pm

Thanks for the info. One last thing, how did you base your decision to use swords? If another brutality blade drops for us I may consider switching. I used swords leveling up, since I solo'd most of the way. I enjoy daggers, but it seems in many ways swords are just better end game, unless you're looking for burst PVP damage.

I'm hoping to have a better comparison to our guild's sword rogue once a Gutgore Ripper or Perdition's Blade drops, but I'm growing weary of waiting.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 4, 2005, 4:59 pm

I just like swords better, but I am experimenting. SS gets combo points faster and is non-directional which can sometimes work out where BS doesnt. I plan on trying out a pair of daggers in 1.8 since they should be affected slightly less by the nerf. However, I'm skeptical that it will top swords.

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 4, 2005, 5:21 pm

Ok I'll be switching to this (15/26/10) tonight. Its the same as you suggested, but I put the points into dodge over SS. I'll also try some SnD and see how it does. Thanks again for your input.

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » October 4, 2005, 7:47 pm

Just so we are clear:

Nylith is full of shit!

Hunters own his DPS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 5, 2005, 10:29 am

Here is my recap log of last night. We cleared from zone in to Majordomo (no bosses), to spawn rag. It includes everything up to before the domo fight.

http://sovereignguild.org/nylith/recap_up_to_domo.txt

SND over evis didn't seem to make that huge of a difference, but with better daggers it may push out over evis.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 5, 2005, 10:58 am

SnD will scale with better daggers, yes. What are you using now?

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 5, 2005, 11:36 am

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?83100

Heartseeker & Shadowblade

My goal is to get a Perdition's Blade or Gutgore Ripper for main hand, and then get a Black Amnesty for offhand.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 7, 2005, 6:52 pm

SnD + offhand damage talent > eviscerate for PvE damage.

I use seal fate build because it's a decent mix between pve damage and pvp usefulness.