Spreading liberty and democracy throughout the middle east

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 3, 2005, 11:25 pm

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/t ... =BD4A98048

The US moved late on Friday to delay a showdown with Saudi Arabia over its alleged violations of religious minority rights as skyrocketing oil prices threatened to put a damper on the US economy and threaten ties with a vital supplier.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice decided to postpone imposing sanctions against the desert kingdom by six months in the wake of a US finding that the Saudi government denied residents some of the most basic religious freedoms, according to a state department official.

“The waiver is a temporary measure that allows us to continue discussions leading to progress on important religious freedom issues,” department spokeswoman Amanda Rogers-Harper said.

In a report on religious freedom released a year ago, the US government for the first time designated Saudi Arabia a country “of particular concern”.

The document accused Riyadh of backing anti-Jewish and anti-Christian campaigns, torturing non-Muslims and discriminating against Shiites and other Muslims who did not adhere to the officially sanctioned Wahhabi tradition.

The Saudi government has repeatedly rejected the charges as unfounded.

The designation, introduced into US diplomatic practice by the 1998 International Religious Freedom Act, usually entails severe penalties, including economic sanctions, if the designated country fails to quickly clean up its act.

But the law also gives the secretary of state the right to waive action, if higher US national interests are at stake.

During the first five months of this year, the kingdom supplied the US with roughly 15% of all its oil imports, according to US energy officials.

Is this what GWB meant by bringing freedom to the middle east?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 4, 2005, 12:00 am

They keep the oil flowing cause they know whats good for them.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 4, 2005, 12:03 am

You just have no clue about just how ugly the oil thing is going to be, do you?

Kyoukan get a fucking grip, I used to be republican until it became clear what their path to a soluition to the lack of oil was going to be, and they reran a VP who had allowed the public outing of an American agent. But the dems in the US offer nothing better. I agree that this should not be happening, but Wake up and smell the geopolitical reality.

If gas hits more than 6 bucks a gallon in the US nationally for any extended period of time, you are going to discover just how viscious and evil a predominantly white, predominantly christian nation can be. Last time one got seriously pissed they managed to kill 6 million civilians like machinery, launched a world war with casaulties in the hundreds of millions and made the "free" powers of the world the ally of a nation that had starved 12 million of it's own people

Remember at the end of that conflict the US actually used nuclear weapons against civilian targets? The US populace is still mostly the same type of people who cheered at the news.

So you argue against a stopgap ends justify the means delay to causing that country to get really insane? I don't think you understand the US at all, we are the scariest nation in the history of the world. Most of the people in the US are one serious piss me off from losing it, half the country is stressed out, and the other half is high on lithium, interrupt their daily lives and they will be calling for blood.

Is that appeasement? Giving up free rights standards for staving off the fell beast at your southern doorstep? You bet it is, but since I do not want to see how bad my country can get I would prefer you suck it up and appease. I prefer to see the bread and circuses last out my lifetime, the northern barbarian hordes can wait a few more generations.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 4, 2005, 1:08 am

what the fuck does that have to do with anything? are you huffing gasoline?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » October 4, 2005, 8:19 am

kyoukan wrote:what the fuck does that have to do with anything? are you huffing gasoline?

You really are Stupid arent you? Kylere brings up some good points!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 4, 2005, 8:39 am

Kyoukan, I actually understand you now.

You just do not get it, you seem incapable of looking outside your convenient cubbyhole niche view of the world.

Tangurena · Post by **Tangurena** » October 4, 2005, 9:15 am

The US moved late on Friday to delay a showdown with Saudi Arabia over its alleged violations of religious minority rights as skyrocketing oil prices threatened to put a damper on the US economy and threaten ties with a vital supplier.

What the hell are we going to do? Threaten to stop buying oil from them? We already gave them a free pass for sexual slavery.

Last week, President Bush waived financial sanctions on Saudi Arabia for failing to make significant efforts to stop slave trade in prostitutes, child sex workers and forced laborers.

Source

What bush does while clearing brush on vacation.

Having lived in Saudi, I can tell you that you that only sunni muslims are welcome. Having a visa stamp from Israel in your passport will keep you from entering the country. Wearing a cross or star of david will get you beaten by the muttawa (religious police) and probably deported. Your iqima, residency permit (aka green card) shows what religion you have: green for muslims, purple for infidels. So when alqeda sympathizers want to kidnap some westerner, they look at your iqima to decide whether to invite you down to the mosque or chop off your head you stinking infidel. Don't worry. The official Saudi story will be that you were killed by a rival gang of bootleggers, since everyone knows that westerners are depraved alcoholics.

It's the end of the weekly Poker evening at the palace. All the other Princes have left, but Abdullah and Naif are finishing off the remains of the pizza. Abdullah remembers a bit of business he'd meant to mention.

A: I got a letter from Condaleesa Rice this morning.

N: Oh yes? You know, every time I see her, she reminds me of my chauffeur, she's the same color. Except my chauffeur's not a woman of course. The only time you need a woman chauffeur in this country, is when your car's broken down. (They both start to giggle). Anyway, I'm going to try and look really really interested in what some kuffar woman says. So what did she say?

A: Well, you know, same old, same old. There was something about it on Yahoo. Religious Freedom again. She says "Freedom of religion does not exist, and that that those who do not adhere to the officially sanctioned strain of Sunni Islam practiced in the country can face "severe repercussions" from religious police".

N: Well, that's a smart observation, must be a clever woman! She's a doctor, isn't she? She should stick to prescribing suppositories. Starting with herself. Perhaps she could practice with that letter. (They are both now having difficulty in controlling themselves).

A: But she does also play the piano.

N: Well, I tell you what, next time I want an opinion from a black piano player, I'll give Ray Charles a ring. (Abdullah splutters bits of anchovy and cheese onto the table). What else did she say?

A: (Controlling himself with difficulty) Something about "instances in which government-paid mosque preachers "used violent anti-Jewish and anti-Christian language in their sermons."

N: Instances! They should be doing it every Friday! And what does Miss Condescending want us to do about them? Ask them to become "Imam Nice-Guy"? Get them to say things like - "Well actually I suppose I'm a Muslim, but if you want to be a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu, hey, if it's cool with you it's cool with me, whatever"
A further delay while the two Princes try to regain their breath.

N. So I suppose Miss Pilau Rice would like a church in every city, we could call them St Naif and St Abdullah and things like that...
(sounds of difficulty in breathing...)
...and where we've knocked down that railway bridge in Madinah, we could build a big synagogue....
(...and choking)
...and then we'll have stories like a Catholic Priest and an Imam walking down King Abdul Aziz Street in Riyadh, and the Priest says to the Imam, "You know, Imam, I suppose we both break our vows occasionally, but at least when I do, it's a lot more fun that a ham sandwich"...
(Abdullah is now rolling helplessly on his back, drumming his heels, on the floor)

N: So what are they going to do about it?
(Abdullah takes several minutes to compose himself)

A: They're going to give us "180 days to achieve real progress....in order to allow additional time for the continuation of discussions leading to progress on important religious freedom issues."

N: That's what they said last time. And the time before. So what will they do if we don't make - (holds his fingers up and does that silly quotation sign thing) - "Real Progress"?

A: Something about (and copies the silly quotation sign thing) "Possible Trade Sanctions"

N: (Silly sign again) "Possible Trade Sanctions". (Now N is having real difficulty keeping his face straight). Possible trade sanctions, like..., like... THEY MIGHT STOP BUYING OUR OIL!?!?!

Source

Prediction: bush will continue to suck up to his oil buddies, no matter what.

Wonko Wenusberg · Post by **Wonko Wenusberg** » October 4, 2005, 11:42 am

Oh, everything is in black and white.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 4, 2005, 4:50 pm

Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 4, 2005, 5:39 pm

masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!

I can picture something like a fuel gauge for Saudi Arabia. When their oil supply nears empty an "Add to Evil Axis" indicator will light up.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 4, 2005, 5:48 pm

kyoukan wrote:Is this what GWB meant by bringing freedom to the middle east?

Even if his family was in bed with the Nazis, I still can't bring myself to say GWB has any choice here at all.

And umm... I don't think this is something the US should have any fucking say in. If they want to accept Satanists as equal to Christians that's their errr right I guess, but how is attempting to beat a country with a stick to be more Christian being accepting of Islam?

There's a clear paradox in the US proselytizing for Saudi's to be religiously tolerant.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » October 4, 2005, 9:00 pm

We should annex the entire Middle East and divide it up into the 51-55th states of America, that way we can just steal the oil from ourselves without anymore pussies bitching about it

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 4, 2005, 9:37 pm

Badabidi wrote:We should annex the entire Middle East and divide it up into the 51-55th states of America, that way we can just steal the oil from ourselves without anymore pussies bitching about it

I accept your solution.

I also await with breathless anticipation the moment that you realise you just granted citizenship, and thereby US passports, to a few hundred million pissed off arabs.

Even if they liked the idea, you'd have a welfare bill that would cripple you.

Oh yes, annex away little man, annex away.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 4, 2005, 10:13 pm

See... even Badabidi figured the Republican plan.

Would be nice if the Dems even had one sigh.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 4, 2005, 11:00 pm

masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!

Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » October 5, 2005, 12:31 am

Zaelath wrote:
Badabidi wrote:We should annex the entire Middle East and divide it up into the 51-55th states of America, that way we can just steal the oil from ourselves without anymore pussies bitching about it
I accept your solution.

I also await with breathless anticipation the moment that you realise you just granted citizenship, and thereby US passports, to a few hundred million pissed off arabs.

Even if they liked the idea, you'd have a welfare bill that would cripple you.

Oh yes, annex away little man, annex away.

The arabs can join the ranks of the illegals and do service jobs to live, they don't need welfare!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » October 5, 2005, 12:40 am

kyoukan wrote:
masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!
Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

Wait Flashback 1970-1980 they said the same thing about Japan

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » October 5, 2005, 10:04 am

Kylere wrote:Last time one got seriously pissed they managed to kill 6 million civilians like machinery, launched a world war with casaulties in the hundreds of millions and made the "free" powers of the world the ally of a nation that had starved 12 million of it's own people

From all the evidence, it appears that you are referring to World War II, but that war saw fewer than 100 million casualties*. That's still a lot, but I don't think you need to puff up the numbers into the "hundreds of millions" just to make your point.

*I don't have numbers of civilian wounded, but some general extrapolation still puts the total of combat and civilian dead and wounded under 100 million, but if I'm wrong it could be just a tad over 100 million.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 5, 2005, 1:16 pm

kyoukan wrote:
masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!
Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

hahahahahahaha

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 5, 2005, 6:07 pm

Hoarmurath wrote:
Kylere wrote:Last time one got seriously pissed they managed to kill 6 million civilians like machinery, launched a world war with casaulties in the hundreds of millions and made the "free" powers of the world the ally of a nation that had starved 12 million of it's own people
From all the evidence, it appears that you are referring to World War II, but that war saw fewer than 100 million casualties*. That's still a lot, but I don't think you need to puff up the numbers into the "hundreds of millions" just to make your point.

*I don't have numbers of civilian wounded, but some general extrapolation still puts the total of combat and civilian dead and wounded under 100 million, but if I'm wrong it could be just a tad over 100 million.

Estimates on WW2 deaths vary as much at 40% depending on which encyclopedia you choose, check out http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm for some of the side by side numbers. I have seen numbers from 32 to 50 million direct war deaths, and ancillary numbers running twice that. Besides which how does that have any bearing on the discussion at hand? Did you google something and sperm yourself about catching a number you believed was wrong? It is utterly moot to the issue, and it can be correct depending on considerations but I am not going to footnote minor points for your edification.

Not to mention which those are direct counts, not adding in those dying from long term radiation issues in Japan, not counting all the issues associated with the costs of war versus peace, the war contributed to the poorly done establishment of Israel (not saying Israel is wrong per se but the way the brits did it was insane), there are so many ways the world would hvae been a better place if the Germans had not bought into the same type of politics the US faces today.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 5, 2005, 7:51 pm

Wow well after reading this thread I don't know how any muslim extremist could possibly be insane and evil enough to want to destroy you guys

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 5, 2005, 8:41 pm

Every time Kylere posts I wonder why any muslim wouldn't want to kill him. Or any christian, jew, atheist, agnostic, hindu, sikh or buddhist.

Or falun gong.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 5, 2005, 9:13 pm

Kyoukan, I do not wonder why people do not kill you.

I understand the need for comic relief!

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » October 6, 2005, 9:35 am

Kylere wrote:Besides which how does that have any bearing on the discussion at hand? Did you google something and sperm yourself about catching a number you believed was wrong? It is utterly moot to the issue, and it can be correct depending on considerations but I am not going to footnote minor points for your edification.

The point I was making is that you were just inflating the casualty count to make your post more dramatic. And if you're just trying to be dramatic, then you're not really trying to have an intelligent conversation.

And no, I didn't use Google.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » October 6, 2005, 2:28 pm

kyoukan wrote:
masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!
Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/ghawar.htm

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 8?v=glance

I'll bet against that!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 6, 2005, 3:27 pm

LOL TRILLIONG OMGAD!!1 = Cop out arguments, her point is still infinitely more valid than any of the other ones made in this thread.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » October 6, 2005, 4:33 pm

kyoukan wrote:
masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!
Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

First, technically if they have invested in the US then the dollars are not theirs, they are ours again while the Saudis have ownership of various U.S. assets. Secondly, the claim that the Saudis are going to drain us of money/assets/whatever from selling us oil is silly given that the entire GDP of Saudi Arabia is 310 billion compared to the 11.75 trillion GDP of the U.S. Even if it were possible, the Saudis would have to get in line since Canada sells us more oil than they do (and Mexico has as well at least year to date although we have bought more from Saudi Arabia recently - http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petr ... mport.html )

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 6, 2005, 5:11 pm

I'd like to spread some democracy into those A-rab harems, I tell you whut!

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » October 6, 2005, 6:10 pm

kyoukan wrote:
masteen wrote:Oh come on now. We all know we're just sucking the Saudis dry, and once their oil is depleted, we'll kick them to the curb and start hanging out with our new bestest buddy Iraq!
Letting them put you over a barrel and fuck your ass silly while you scream for more in between begging them to let you pay another $20 a barrel for sweet crude is an interesting definition of sucking them dry. The Saudis already have over a trillion dollars invested into the US. That is dollars that used to be your dollars and are now theirs. You guys will run out of money a long time before they run out of oil.

Money is arbitrary, we can always print more, as long as the schmucks keep taking it for oil it really doesnt matter... Hell for that matter there is already more "money" in circulation than actually exsists in actual currency.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 6, 2005, 6:28 pm

simply printing more money doesn't make your country richer, in fact, for every new dollar printed the worth of a dollar goes down.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 6, 2005, 6:29 pm

As long as I still got gas for my Maibatsu Monstrosity, who gives a shit?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 6, 2005, 6:33 pm

Money is arbitrary, we can always print more, as long as the schmucks keep taking it for oil it really doesnt matter...

My response upon reading this statement can be summarized by the following smilies:

--->

VeeshanVault

Spreading liberty and democracy throughout the middle east

Spreading liberty and democracy throughout the middle east

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