Cindy Sheehan

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Brotha
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Cindy Sheehan

Post by Brotha »

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about her. The press is trying to make her out to be a normal, grieving mother with righteous-anger against the president, and lots of the left-wing blogs I read are getting so self-righteous they put Teeny to shame.

In reality she's an extremely radical person who's already met and been "comforted" (her words then) by Bush.

Some of the things she's said that haven't been reported too often:

Calling the 2004 election the "quote unquote election," meaning that the 2004 election was stolen.

She's glad the internet is around, it's the only thing stopping the US from turning into "a facist state because Republicans control everything else."

And then finally, here're some awesome quotes from the editorial she wrote:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0606-29.htm

Most people (from my experience) who are against the war in Iraq atleast supported Clinton's policies, not her though:
During the Clinton regime the US-UN led sanctions against Iraq and the weekly bombing raids killed tens of thousands of innocent people in Iraq. Many of them were children, but since one of her children didn’t have to be sacrificed to the homicidal war machine, Madeline Albright, thinks the slaughter during the “halcyon” Clinton years was “worth it.” More lies.
Calling the Bush administration the "biggest terrorist outfit in the world." AND SHE WONDERS WHY BUSH WON'T MEET WITH HER AGAIN.
Casey was killed in the Global War Of Terrorism waged on the world and its own citizens by the biggest terrorist outfit in the world: George and his destructive Neo-con cabal.
This is great too:
However, the biggest threat to our safety, humanity, and our way of life in America are George and his cronies.
I'm sure I'll get self-righteous responses of "that's fucked up, how can you criticize a mother who lost her son in Iraq," but look at what she's said. She has completely set herself up for criticism and put herself out there in the media spotlight for her own partisan purposes at the expense of her son's memory. THAT is what's fucked up.

I never thought I'd say this, but I wish the news would just stick with Aruba.
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Post by Nick »

Oh the raging hypocrisy.

Which is more self righteous? Spending billions of dollars to blow the shit out thousands of innocent people to further your own empirical righteous "war on terror" or pointing out that it's a mistake?


Boo fucking hoo for you Brotha.
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Post by Kaldaur »

I was under the impression that Bush hasn't met with her yet, but a few aides have.

And you know, Brotha, it's interesting to watch you in action, because you have summarized the GOP's attack pattern. Rather than focus on the problem at hand, you prefer to attack the person who has brought forth the problem for analyzation. Perhaps, instead of demonizing a mother who just lost her son in this war, let's focus on what she's calling for: pulling out of troops in Iraq. She wants them out, regardless of the fact that we know we can't leave now because of the power vacuum we would leave. Bush has stated from Crawford during his five week vacation that he will not leave Iraq, so Sheehan stays in Crawford to continue to protest his actions.

It's interesting to see that some parents have joined her, whereas others who have lost children say their sons and daughters would want the fight to continue. I wonder if those two groups of parents follow a trend, or if it could just be an individual difference. For instance, how many parents wanting the troops to stay fit are registered to one party or another, and how many parents who want the troops to come home are registered to the same/opposite party. Would make for some interesting table talk, in the least.

But yeah, don't attack the messenger, Brotha, attack the message.
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Post by Brotha »

Kaldaur wrote:I was under the impression that Bush hasn't met with her yet, but a few aides have.
Bush met with her before, yes. She also changed her story on how that went:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
CINDY 2004

THE REPORTER of Vacaville, CA published an account of Cindy Sheehan's visit with the president at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004:

"'I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,' Cindy said after their meeting. 'I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith.'

"The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

"The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

"For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"'That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy said."

CINDY 2005

Sheehan's current comments are a striking departure.

She vowed on Sunday to continue her protest until she can personally ask Bush: "Why did you kill my son?"

In an interview on CNN, she claimed Bush "acted like it was party" when she met him last year.

"It was -- you know, there was a lot of things said. We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity. And we wanted him to look at the pictures of Casey.

"He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, 'So who are we honoring here?' He didn't even know Casey's name. He didn't want to hear it. He didn't want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn't even call him 'him' or 'he.' He called him 'your loved one.'

Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject. And he acted like it was a party.

BLITZER: Like a party? I mean...

SHEEHAN: Yes, he came in very jovial, and like we should be happy that he, our son, died for his misguided policies. He didn't even pretend like somebody...
Her "message" has been addressed time and time again. What exactly is she adding to the debate? Absolutely nothing. She's just using the fact that her son was killed in Iraq as a tool to get her partisan message out, and the media is more than happy to help her with that- making her look like an apolitical, grieving mother looking for answers, rather than the radical that she is.

And her family has something to say about it too:
In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:

The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

Sincerely,

Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins
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Post by Kelshara »

However, the biggest threat to our safety, humanity, and our way of life in America are George and his cronies.
Just curious: What do you consider the biggest threat?
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Post by Bubba Grizz »

Kelshara wrote:
However, the biggest threat to our safety, humanity, and our way of life in America are George and his cronies.
Just curious: What do you consider the biggest threat?
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Ever lost a child?

Ever lost a sibling??

Don't assume to understand, seriously... shut up... you CAN NOT understand.. k?
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Post by Voronwë »

i think she is getting more media attention than is warrented, but she has every right to go do whatever she wants to in this regard.

And more power to her, she has met with Steven Hadley, and some other pretty important people, and that's not too shabby.
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Post by Skogen »

Boy am I glad I read this post. I should have stop instantly when I say it was Brotha who posted it.

Well, that's 20 seconds of my like I'll never get back
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Post by Zaelath »

I don't really give a shit that she lost a son in iraq, but that doesn't mean she's less sane than you are. Hell, I'll give you the 2004 election, but she's right about the internet.

You're such a self-righteous twat.
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Post by Aslanna »

Bump so Brotha can see hear more about her.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GH16Aa01.html is a good read. Bit on the long side.
DISPATCHES FROM AMERICA
Cindy, Don and George
By Tom Engelhardt

Retired four-star Army General Barry McCaffrey said to Time Magazine: "The army's wheels are going to come off in the next 24 months. We are now in a period of considerable strategic peril. It's because [Pentagon chief Donald] Rumsfeld has dug in his heels and said, 'I cannot retreat from my position.'"

Cindy Sheehan testifying at Representative John Conyers' public hearings on the Downing Street Memo:
My son, Spc Casey Austin Sheehan, was KIA [killed in action] in Sadr City Baghdad on 04/04/04. He was in Iraq for only two weeks before [Coalition Provisional Authority head] L Paul Bremer inflamed the Shi'ite militia into a rebellion which resulted in the deaths of Casey and six other brave soldiers who were tragically killed in an ambush. Bill Mitchell, the father of Sergeant Mike Mitchell, who was one of the other soldiers killed that awful day, is with us here. This is a picture of Casey when he was seven months old. It's an enlargement of a picture he carried in his wallet until the day he was killed. He loved this picture of himself. It was returned to us with his personal effects from Iraq. He always sucked on those two fingers. When he was born, he had a flat face from passing through the birth canal and we called him "Edward G", short for Edward G Robinson. How many of you have seen your child in his/her premature coffin? It is a shocking and very painful sight. The most heartbreaking aspect of seeing Casey lying in his casket for me was that his face was flat again because he had no muscle tone. He looked like he did when he was a baby laying in his bassinet. The most tragic irony is that if the Downing Street Memo proves to be true, Casey and thousands of people should still be alive.
Rumsfeld testifying before the House Armed Services Committee in March: "The world has seen, in the last three-and-a-half years, the capability of the United States of America to go into Afghanistan ... and with 20,000, 15,000 troops working with the Afghans do what 200,000 Soviets couldn't do in a decade. They've seen the United States and the coalition forces go into Iraq ... That has to have a deterrent effect on people." (Ann Scott Tyson, "US Gaining World's Respect From Wars, Rumsfeld Asserts", the Washington Post, March 11.)

Bush on arriving for a meeting with families of the bereaved, including Cindy Sheehan and her husband on June 17, 2004: "So, who are we honoring here?"

A teaser at the "careers and jobs" screen of GoArmy.com: "Want an extra $400 a month?" Click on it and part of what comes up is: "Qualified active army recruits may be eligible for AIP [assignment incentive pay] of $400 per month, up to 36 months for a total of up to $14,400, if they agree to be assigned to an army-designated priority unit with a critical role in current global commitments."

Who is in that ditch?
Casey Sheehan had one of those small "critical roles" in the "current global commitment" in Iraq that, in Rumsfeld's words, "has to have a deterrent effect on people". As it happens, Sheehan was one of the unexpectedly deterred and now, along with 1,846 other American soldiers, is interred, leaving his take-no-prisoners mother Cindy - a one-person antiwar movement - with a critical role to play in awakening Americans to the horrors and dangers of the Bush administration's "current global commitments".

Over the past two years, administration officials, civilian and military, have never ceased to talk about "turning corners" or reaching "tipping points" and achieving "milestones" in the Iraq-war-that-won't-end. Now it seems possible that Cindy Sheehan in a spontaneous act of opposition - her decision to head for Crawford, Texas, to face down a vacationing president and demand an explanation for her son's death - may produce the first real American tipping point of the Iraq war.

As a million news articles and TV reports have informed us, she was stopped about five miles short of her target, the presidential "ranch" in Crawford, and found herself unceremoniously consigned to a ditch at the side of a Texas road, camping out. And yet somehow, powerless except for her story, she has managed to take hostage the president of the US and turned his Crawford refuge into the American equivalent of Baghdad's Green Zone. She has mysteriously transformed August's news into a question of whether, on his way to meet Republican donors, the president will helicopter over her encampment or drive past (as he, in fact, did) in a tinted-windowed black Chevrolet SUV.

Faced with the power of the Bush political and media machine, Cindy Sheehan has engaged in an extreme version of asymmetrical warfare and, in her person, in her story, in her version of "the costs of war", she has also managed to catch many of the tensions of our present moment. What she has exposed in the process is the growing weakness and confusion of the Bush administration. At this moment, it remains an open question who, in the end, will be found in that ditch at the side of a Texas road, her - or the president of the United States.

Confusion in the ranks
Ellen Knickmeyer of the Washington Post reported last week that "a US general said ... the violence would likely escalate as the deadline approached for drafting a constitution for Iraq". For two years now, this has been a dime-a-dozen prediction from American officials trying to cover their future butts. For the phrase "drafting a constitution" in that general's quote, you need only substitute "after the killing of Saddam Hussein's sons" (July 2003), "for handing over sovereignty" (June 2004), "for voting for a new Iraqi government" (January 2005) - or, looking ahead, "for voting on the constitution" (October, 2005) and, yet again, "for voting for a new Iraqi government" (December 2005), just as you will be able to substitute as yet unknown similar "milestones" that won't turn out to be milestones as long as our president insists that we must "stay the course" in Iraq, as he did only recently as his Crawford vacation began.

After each spike of violence, at each tipping point, each time a corner is turned, Bush officials or top commanders predict that they have the insurgency under control, only to be ambushed by yet another spike in violence. In May, for example, more than three months after violence was supposed to have spiked and receded in the wake of the Iraqi election, chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Richard Myers offered a new explanation - the "recent spike in violence ... represents an attempt to discredit the new Iraqi government and cabinet". When brief lulls in insurgent attacks (which often represent changes in tactics) aren't being declared proof that the Iraqi insurgency is faltering/failing/coming under control, then the spikes are being claimed as "the last gasp" of the insurgency, proof of the impending success of Bush administration policies - those last throes that Vice President Dick Cheney so notoriously described to CNN's Wolf Blitzer as June ended.

Recently in a throw (not throe) up-your-hands mode, Army Brigadier General Karl Horst, deputy commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, which oversees Baghdad, offered the following, taking credit for having predicted the very throe his troops were then engulfed in: "If you look at the past few months, insurgents have not been able to sustain attacks, but they tend to surge every four weeks or so. We are right in the middle of one of those periods and predicted this would come ... If they are going to influence the constitution process, they have only a few days left to do it, and we fully expect the attacks to continue."

You would think that someone in an official capacity would conclude, sooner or later, that Iraq was a spike in violence.

It's an accepted truth of our times that the Bush administration has been the most secretive, disciplined, and on-message administration in our history. So what an out-of-control couple of weeks for the president and his pals. His polls were at, or near, historic lows; his Iraq war approval numbers headed for, or dipping below, 40% - and polls are, after all, the message boards for much of what's left of American democracy. As he was preparing for his record-setting presidential vacation in Crawford, Bush and his advisors couldn't even agree on whether we were in a "global struggle with violent extremism" or in a "global war on terror". (The president finally opted for war.) He was, of course, leaving behind in Washington a special counsel, called into being by his administration but now beyond its control, who held a sword of judicial Damocles over key presidential aides (and who can probably parse sinking presidential polls as well as anyone).

Iraq - you can't leave home without it - has, of course, been at the heart of everything Bushworld hasn't been able to shake off, at least since May 2, 2003. On that day (when, ominously enough, seven American soldiers were wounded by a grenade attack in Fallujah), our president co-piloted a jet onto the USS Abraham Lincoln, an aircraft carrier halted off the San Diego coast (lest it dock and he only be able to walk on board). All togged out in a military uniform, he declared "major combat operations" at an end, while standing under a White House-produced banner reading "mission accomplished". Ever since then, Bush has been on that mission (un)accomplished and Iraq has proved nothing if not a black hole, sucking in his administration and the American military along with neo-conservative dreams and plans of every ambitious sort.

The Iraqi insurgency that should never have happened, or should at least have died down after unknown thousands of its foot soldiers were killed or imprisoned by the American military, inconveniently managed to turn the early days of August into a killing zone for American soldiers. Sixteen Marine Reservists from a single unit in Ohio were killed in a couple of days; seven soldiers from the Pennsylvania National Guard were killed, again in a few days. Thirty-seven Americans were reported to have died in Iraq in the first 11 days of the presidential vacation, putting American casualties at the top of the TV news night after night. And yet the administration has seemed capable only of standing by helplessly, refusing to give an inch on the "compassion" president's decision - he and his advisors are still navigating by the anti-Vietnam playbook - not to visit grief-stricken communities in either Ohio or Pennsylvania, or ever to be caught attending the funeral of one of the boys or girls he sent abroad to die. He did manage, however, to fly to the Sandia National Laboratories in New Mexico to sign the energy bill and also left his ranch to hobnob with millionaire Republican donors.

In this same period, cracks in relations between an increasingly angry military command in Iraq and administration officials back in Washington began to appear for all to see. The issue, for desperate military officers, was – as for Cindy Sheehan - how in the world to get our troops out of Iraq before the all-volunteer military goes over an Iraqi cliff, wheels and all.

As July ended, our top general in Iraq, George W Casey, announced (with many conditional "ifs") that we should be able to start drawing-down American troops significantly by the following spring - that tens of thousands of them were likely to leave then and tens of thousands more by the end of 2006, and Rumsfeld initially backed him up somewhat edgily. Then, as Rumsfeld hedged, more military people jumped into the media fray with leaks and comments of all sorts about possible Iraqi drawdowns and there was a sudden squall of front-page articles on withdrawal strategies for a hard-pressed administration in an increasingly unpopular war. At the same time, confusingly, reports began to surface indicating that, because of another of those prospective spikes in violence, the administration would actually be increasing American troop strength in Iraq before the December elections by 10,000-20,000 soldiers.

Finally, after a war council of the Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (Pentagon and State Department) "teams" in Crawford last week, the president held a news conference (devoted in part to responding to Cindy Sheehan) and promptly launched a new, ad-style near-jingle to explain the withdrawal moment to the American people: "As Iraqis stand up," he intoned, "we will stand down."

But in a week in which the American general in command of transportation in Iraq announced that roadside bomb attacks against his convoys had doubled over the past year, such words sounded empty - especially as news flowed in suggesting that, while the insurgents continued to fight fiercely, the new Iraqi military seemed in no rush whatsoever to "stand up" and that our own commanders believed it might never do so in significant numbers. At his news conference, our never-never-land president nonetheless spoke several times of being pleased to announce "progress" in Iraq. ("And we're making progress training the Iraqis. Oh, I know it's hard for some Americans to see that progress, but we are making progress.")

He spoke as well of attempts to ease the burden on the no-longer-weekend warriors of the National Guard and the Reserves (who are taking unprecedented casualties in August). He said: "We've also taken steps to improve the call-up process for our Guard and for our Reserves. We've provided them with earlier notifications. We've given them greater certainty about the length of their tours. We minimized the number of extensions and repeat mobilizations." Unfortunately, at just this moment, Joint Chiefs head Myers was speaking of the possibility of calling soldiers back for their third tours of duty in Iraq: "There's the possibility of people going back for a third term, sure. That's always out there. We are at war."

"Pulling the troops out would send a terrible signal to the enemy," the president insisted as he turned to the matter of withdrawal in his news conference. He then dismissed drawdown maneuvers as "speculation and rumors"; and, on being confronted by a reporter with the statements of his own military men, added, "I suspect what you were hearing was speculation based upon progress that some are seeing in Iraq as to whether or not the Iraqis will be able to take the fight to the enemy."

While that may sound vague, it was, nonetheless, the sound of a president (who, along with his secretary of defense, has always promised to abide by whatever his generals in the field wanted) disputing those commanders in public. General Casey was also reportedly "rebuked" in private for his withdrawal comments. Our commanders in Iraq are, of course, the official realists in this war, having long ago given up on the idea that the insurgency could ever be defeated by force of US arms and worrying as they do about those "wheels coming off" the American military machine.

In fact, the Bush administration's occupation of Iraq - as Howard Zinn put the matter recently, "We liberated Iraq from Saddam Hussein, but not from us." - is threatening to prove one of the great asymmetric catastrophes in recent military history. A rag-tag bunch of insurgents, now estimated in the tens of thousands, using garage-door openers and cell phones to set off roadside bombs and egg-timers to fire mortars at US bases (lest they be around when the return fire comes in), have fought the US military to at least a draw. We're talking about a military that, not so long ago, was being touted as the most powerful force not just on this planet at this moment but on any planet in all of galactic history.

Previously, such rumors of withdrawal followed by a quiet hike in troop strength in Iraq might have been simply another clever administration attempt to manipulate the public and have it both ways. At the moment, however, they seem to be a sign not of manipulation but of confusion, discord and uncertainty about what to do next. If the public was left confused by such "conflicting signals" about an Iraqi withdrawal, wrote Peter Baker of the Washington Post, "it may be no more unsure than the administration itself, as some government officials involved in Iraq policy privately acknowledge." An unnamed "military officer in Washington" typically commented to Anne E Kornblut of the New York Times, "We need to stick to one message. This vacillation creates confusion for the American public."

Even administration officials are now evidently "significantly lowering expectations" and thinking about how exactly to jump off the sinking Iraqi ship. The president, beseeching "the public to stick with his strategy despite continuing mayhem on the ground", is, Baker commented, "trying to buy time". But buy time for what? This is the question that has essentially paralyzed Bush's top officials as they face a world suddenly not in their control.

Cindy and the media
And then, if matters weren't bad enough, there was Cindy Sheehan. She drove to Crawford with a few supporters in a caravan of perhaps a dozen vehicles and an old red, white and blue bus with the blunt phrase "Impeachment Tour" written on it. She carried with her a tent, a sleeping bag, some clothes and evidently not much else. She parked at the side of the road and camped out - and the next thing anyone knew, she had forced the president to send out not the Secret Service or some minor bureaucrat, but two of his top men, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin. For 45 minutes, they met and negotiated with her, the way you might with a recalcitrant foreign head of state. Rather than being flattered and giving ground, she just sent them back, insisting that she would wait where she was to get the president's explanation for her son's death. ("They said they'd pass on my concerns to George Bush. I said, 'Fine, but I'm not talking to anybody else but him'.")

So there she was, as people inspired by her began to gather - the hardy women of Code Pink; other parents whose children had died in Iraq; a former State Department official who had resigned her post to protest the onrushing Iraq war; "a political consultant and a team of public relations professionals"; antiwar protestors of all sorts; and, of course, the media. Quite capable of reading administration weakness in the polls, trapped in no-news Crawford with a president always determined to offer them less than nothing, hardened by an administration whose objective for any media not its own was only "rollback", and sympathetic to a grieving mother from Bush's war, reporters found themselves with an irresistible story at a moment when they could actually run with it.

Literally hundreds of news articles - almost every one a sympathetic profile of the distraught mother and her altar-boy, Eagle-Scout dead son - poured out; while Sheehan was suddenly on the morning TV shows and the nightly news, where a stop-off at "Camp Casey" or the "Crawford Peace House" was suddenly de rigeur. And the next thing you knew, there was the president at his news conference forced to flinch a second time and, though Sheehan was clobbering him, offer "sympathy" to a grieving mother at the side of the road five miles away whom he wasn't about to invite in, even for a simple meeting, but who just wouldn't leave. ("And so, you know, listen, I sympathize with Mrs Sheehan. She feels strongly about her - about her position. And I am - she has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America. She has a right to her position ... ").

Talk about asymmetric warfare. One woman against the massed and proven might of the Bush political machine and its major media allies (plus assorted bloggers) and though some of them started whacking away immediately, Cindy Sheehan remained unfazed. After all, she had been toiling in the wilderness and this was her moment. Whatever the right-wing press did, she could take it - and, of course, the mainstream media had for the time being decided to fall in love with her. After all, she was perfect. American reporters love a one-on-one, "showdown" situation without much context, a face-to-face shoot-out at the OK Corral. (Remember those endless weeks on TV labeled "Showdown with Saddam"?) In addition, they were - let's be honest - undoubtedly angry after the five-year-long pacification campaign the administration had waged against them.

But they had their own ideas about who exactly Cindy Sheehan should be to win over America. They would paint a strikingly consistent, quite moving, but not completely accurate picture of her. They would attempt to tame her by shearing away her language, not just the profanity for which she was known, but the very fierceness of her words. She had no hesitation about calling the president "an evil maniac", "a lying bastard" or the administration "those lying bastards", "chickenhawks", "warmongers", "shameful cowards" and "war criminals". She called for the president's "impeachment", for the jailing of the whole top layer of the administration (no pardons). She called for American troops to be pulled out of Iraq now. And most of this largely disappeared from a much-softened media portrait of a grieving antiwar mother.

And yet Sheehan herself seems unfazed by the media circus and image-shaping going on around her. In a world where horrors are referred to euphemistically, or politely, or artfully ignored, she does something quite rare - she calls things by their names as she sees them. She is as blunt and impolite in her mission as the media is circumspect and polite in its job, as most of the opposition to Bush is in its "opposition". And it was her very bluntness, her ability to shock by calling things by their actual names, by acting as she saw fit, that let her break through, and that may help turn a set of unhappy public opinion polls into a full-scale antiwar movement.

What will happen next? Will the president actually attend a funeral? Will Cindy Sheehan force him from his Green-Zone world? Suddenly, almost anything seems possible.

However the media deals with her, she embodies every bind the administration is in. As with Iraq (as well as Iran), the administration can't either make its will felt or sweep her off the landscape. Bush and his officials blinked at a moment when they would certainly have liked to whack her, fearing the power of the mother of a dead son from their war. And then, completely uncharacteristically, they vacillated and flip-flopped. They ignored her, then negotiated. They sent out their attack dogs to flail at her, then expressed sympathy. Officials, who have always known what to do before, had no idea what to do with Cindy Sheehan. The most powerful people in the world, they surely feel trapped and helpless. Somehow, she's taken that magical presidential something out of Bush and cut him down to size. It's been a remarkable performance so far.

The tipping point?
Casey Sheehan died on April 4, 2004, soon after he arrived for his tour of duty in Iraq. His mother had never wanted him to go to a war that was "wrong", a place where he might have to "kill innocent people" and where he might die. ("I begged him not to go. I said, 'I'll take you to Canada' ... but he said, 'Mom, I have to go. It's my duty. My buddies are going'.") In her grief - always beyond imagining for those of us who have not lost a child - this woman found her calling, one that she would never have wanted and that no one would have ever wished on her.

For more than a year, having set up a small organization, Gold Star Families for Peace, she traveled the country insisting that the president explain, but in relative obscurity - except on the Internet, that place where so much gestates that later bursts into our mainstream world and where today, at Technorati.com, which monitors usage on blogs, her name is the most frequently searched for of all. As she has said, "If we didn't have the Internet, none of us would really know what was truly going on. This is something that can't be ignored."

In March, she appeared - thanks to prescient editors - on the cover of the Nation magazine for an article, The New Face of Protest?, on the developing military and military-family inspired, antiwar movement. She was giving a speech at the Veterans for Peace national convention in Dallas when she evidently decided that she had to head for Crawford, and the rest you know.

As our president likes to speak about "our mission" in Iraq and "our mission of defeating terrorists" in the world, so Cindy Sheehan has found herself on a mission. Our president speaks resolutely of "staying the course" in Iraq. That's exactly what Cindy Sheehan is planning to do in Crawford (and undoubtedly beyond). Bush prides himself on not flinching, giving ground, or ever saying he's sorry. But he also had remarkably good luck until he ran into Cindy. Whether in his presidential runs, in Congress, or elsewhere, he really hasn't come up against an opponent who was ready to dig in and duke it out blow for blow, an opponent ready never to flinch, never to apologize, never to mince words, never to take prisoners.

Now he's got one - and like so many personal demons, she's been called up from the Id of his own war: a mother of one of the dead who demands an explanation, an answer, when no answer he gives will ever conceivably do; a woman who, like his neo-con companions, has no hesitation about going for the jugular. And, amazingly, she's already made the man flinch twice.

No matter how the media surrounds her or tries to tame her, the fact is she's torn up the oppositional rule book. She's a woman made in the mold of Iraq war vet Paul Hackett, who ran in a hopelessly Republican congressional district recently. He didn't hesitate to call the president a "chicken hawk" or a "son of a bitch", and to the surprise of all won 48% of the vote doing so, leading Newt Gingrich to say that the race "should serve as a wake-up call to Republicans" for the 2006 elections.

There's a lesson in this. Americans are not, generally speaking, your basic turn-the-other-cheek sorts of folks. They like to know that the people they vote for or support will, at the very least, stand there and whack back, if whacked at. Whatever she may have been before, Cindy Sheehan was beaten into just that shape on the anvil of her son's death. ("I was stunned and dismayed when the United States invaded Iraq. I didn't agree with it. I didn't think it was right, but I never protested until after Casey was killed.") Some of her testimony at the Conyers hearings on the Downing Street Memo catches this spirit and it's well worth quoting:
There are a few people around the US and a couple of my fellow witnesses who were a little justifiably worried that in my anger and anguish over Casey's premeditated death, I would use some swear words, as I have been known to do on occasion when speaking about the subject. Mr Conyers, out of my deep respect for you, the other representatives here, my fellow witnesses, and viewers of these historic proceedings, I was able to make it through an entire testimony without using any profanity. However, if anyone deserves to be angry and use profanity, it is I. What happened to Casey and humanity because of the apparent dearth of honesty in our country's leadership is so profane that it defies even my vocabulary skills. We as Americans should be offended more by the profanity of the actions of this administration than by swear words. We have all heard the old adage that actions speak louder than words and for the sake of Casey and our other precious children, please hold someone accountable for their actions and their words of deception.

Last week, the Pentagon relieved a four-star general of his command allegedly because he had an affair, while separated from his wife, with a woman not in the military or the government; and yet not a single top official or high-ranking officer (except for scapegoat Brigadier Gen Janice Karpinski) has suffered for American acts at Abu Ghraib, or murder and torture throughout our imperium, or for torture and abuse at our prison in Guantanamo, or for any of the disasters of Iraq. In such a context, the words "please hold someone accountable" by the mother of a boy killed in Iraq, a woman on a mission who doesn't plan to back down or leave off any time soon - well, that truly constitutes going directly for the president's political throat. It's mano a mano time, and while I would never underestimate what this administration might do, I wouldn't underestimate the fierce power of an angry mother either. The Bush administration is in trouble in Iraq, in Washington, and in Crawford.

Note on sources: Cindy Sheehan is first and foremost an Internet phenomenon. Those of you who want to read her writings since 2004 should visit her archive at the always lively libertarian site, LewRockwell.com. (Rockwell seems to specialize in strong women, publishing as well the writings of retired Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski.) For the Sheehan phenomenon in its present incarnation, check out a new website http://www.meetwithcindy.org, but then go to the must-visit site, Afterdowningstreet.com, which has a fascinating, ever-updated Sheehan subsection.

Tom Engelhardt is editor of Tomdispatch and the author of The End of Victory Culture.

(Copyright 2005 Tom Engelhardt)
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Post by Cartalas »

Curious? Did any parents think when that when you sign up for the military you might have to go to war.
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Post by Seebs »

Not to derail, but does anyone else find this woman strangely sexah? I mean, the way she wears her makeup and fixes her hair.

Adorable!!
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Post by Siji »

Cartalas wrote:Curious? Did any parents think when that when you sign up for the military you might have to go to war.
Not if your last name is Bush.
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Post by Xzion »

Siji wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Curious? Did any parents think when that when you sign up for the military you might have to go to war.
Not if your last name is Bush.
lol, that was good
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Post by Fash »

There is no good reason for her to be on TV everyday... this is not a story.

This story more than others makes me sick of the media in general...

I'd like to cut her throat myself.


edit:

i won't remove the comment, but i do realize it's grossly misdirected... it should be directed at the people stuffing live mics in her face.

it's worth it to point out that her husband has filed for divorce because of this mockery.
Last edited by Fash on August 18, 2005, 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Voronwë »

whoah there tough guy, save it for the game.


but back on planet earth, i think some of her commentary (supposedly she is pontificating on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) has moved from the absurd to the sublime....hmmm....or do things go sublime, then absurd? it's hard to tell really.

But the point is, yeah she is kind of drunk with the spotlight i guess. her other son wanted her to stop etc.

Regardless, what is humorous is that the right wing talk shows are the ones that are really giving her the most attention. They are doing it of course to enrage their audience, which is their bread and butter of course.

so this is tailor made for them.
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Post by Zaelath »

Cartalas wrote:Curious? Did any parents think when that when you sign up for the military you might have to go to war.
They probably have no issue with their kids being killed defending the country, defending your oil rights.. err I mean, Iraqi's freedom however, not so keen.

OMG, I just read that back over, does is it possible not to go "HA!"?
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Voronwë wrote:whoah there tough guy, save it for the game.


but back on planet earth, i think some of her commentary (supposedly she is pontificating on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) has moved from the absurd to the sublime....hmmm....or do things go sublime, then absurd? it's hard to tell really.

But the point is, yeah she is kind of drunk with the spotlight i guess. her other son wanted her to stop etc.

Regardless, what is humorous is that the right wing talk shows are the ones that are really giving her the most attention. They are doing it of course to enrage their audience, which is their bread and butter of course.

so this is tailor made for them.
Of course, exactly, of course.
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Post by Boogahz »

Voronwë wrote:whoah there tough guy, save it for the game.


but back on planet earth, i think some of her commentary (supposedly she is pontificating on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) has moved from the absurd to the sublime....hmmm....or do things go sublime, then absurd? it's hard to tell really.

But the point is, yeah she is kind of drunk with the spotlight i guess. her other son wanted her to stop etc.

Regardless, what is humorous is that the right wing talk shows are the ones that are really giving her the most attention. They are doing it of course to enrage their audience, which is their bread and butter of course.

so this is tailor made for them.
You left out the part about them constantly complaining about the press she is getting as they give her the press!
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Post by Cartalas »

Well she left, In all this I wonder what her son would think of her actions?
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Post by Neost »

IIRC she left to go be with her sick mother so I bet he tell her to do just that and not to worry about him.
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Post by Aslanna »

Cartalas wrote:Well she left, In all this I wonder what her son would think of her actions?
CRAWFORD - Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan abruptly left her vigil near President Bush's ranch Thursday, saying she needed to be with her ailing mother in California.

"We just had a terrible call," Sheehan told reporters at Camp Casey, the roadside peace protest where she has been waiting 12 days in hopes of meeting with Bush. "My mom had a stroke."
Yeah, how shameless of her. At least Fash can spring into action and cut her throat now.
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Post by kyoukan »

I love how you have to go to a fucking ranch in some dryhump town in texas to see the fucking president. That guy works less than paris hilton.
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Post by Voronwë »

the less he works, the better off we all are
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Her mother probably had the stroke due to stress from her retarded media whoring daughter.

Roughly 1500 US soldiers have died in combat since the war began. That is not exactly a staggering number for any conflict. To put it in perspective, there are 7000 deaths annually in the US due to just being prescribed incorrect medicines by doctors. I don't hear the outcry and bitching about the terrorist doctors who kill 14 times as many innocent people as soldiers who signed up voluntarily for military service.

Most of you don't give a goddamn about the human lives that are lost, you just like bitching about the president.
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Post by miir »

Roughly 1500 US soldiers have died in combat since the war began
It took me 0.23 seconds to find out that there has been exactly 1862 American casualties in Iraq.

is not exactly a staggering number for any conflict.
That's because it's not even a fucking war. It's an invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation. It's as much a war as your 'war on drugs' and your 'war on terror'.
It's the punchline for a joke that isn't even remotely funny.

To put it in perspective, there are 7000 deaths annually in the US due to just being prescribed incorrect medicines by doctors. I don't hear the outcry and bitching about the terrorist doctors who kill 14 times as many innocent people as soldiers who signed up voluntarily for military service.
What kind of horseshit is that?
Using that kind of logic, people who are concerned an about terrorists should stop bitching and whining because less than 2800 people died in the attack on Sept 11.
I mean really, your government is spending BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND FUCKING BILLIONS of dollars all because of one little blip on the terrorist radar.
And I suppose the 25k Iraqis that have died since your invasion should also stop bitching and whining as well... oh wait, they can't because they are dead.



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Post by Nick »

Kilmoll's self owning continues.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

miir wrote:
Roughly 1500 US soldiers have died in combat since the war began
It took me 0.23 seconds to find out that there has been exactly 1862 American casualties in Iraq.
And it took me .05 seconds to find that only approximately 1500 of those deaths ocurred IN COMBAT like my post said. Thanks for reading comprehension.
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Post by miir »

Well according to your president, the war was over almost 28 months ago, so I guess the 1723 American deaths since don't really count anyway.
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Post by Jice Virago »

There are also a lot of deaths that are classified as non combat or non Iraqi theatre because the people die on the table or en route to locations outside Iraq. A more realistic number of people who have died (american casualties) is probably around 2500. The 1800 number is that the gov will admit to. That of course is just fatalities, and American at that. The 1500 number you are fond of is strictly service men who died on the scene in combat.

This is all just mental masturbation, however. Any amount of american deaths to line the pockets of texan oil companies is too many, in my opinion. Good thing they are getting this huge multibillion dollar tax cut so that they can privateer the Iraqi oil without interrupting their record breaking 7+ Billion a quarter in proffits......

As for the Sheenan thing, she is a bit nutty, no argument there, but shes not any more of a nutjob that the fucking attack dogs on the right who are giving her the attention. I mean, whats more disgusting, a mom using the death or her son as a platform to try and get the presidents ear or Rush "teh Chickenhawk Welfare Guzzler" Limbaugh making money on T-Shirts that make a joke out of the torture going on in Gitmo?
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Post by miir »

Here's a list of Americans who died in non-combat situations. I'm sure their familes would take comfor in knowing that according to kilmoll, they don't really count.
Cannon, Jakia Sheree
Acevedo, Joseph
Gonzalez, Armando Ariel
Cassidy, Paul J.
Boone, Clarence E.
Jimenez, Linda C.
Letufuga, Farao K.
Geurin, Cory Ryan
Argel, Derek
Fresques, Jeremy
Downs, William
Crate, Casey
Adams, Michael S.
LaWare, Casey M.
Cataudella, Sean K.
Mitchell, Keman L.
Schrage, Dustin H.
Sims, Charles M.
Klinesmith Jr., John K.
Freeman, Benjamin L.
Bates, Todd M.
Reese, Aaron T.
Mack, Vorn J.
Green, Jeffrey G.
Bunda, Christopher
Carey, Michael M.
Straseskie, Kirk Allen
Ludlam, Jason C.
Faunce, Brian R.
Whitman, Chase R.
Anderson, Brian Edward
Farrar Jr., Andrew K.
Camposiles, Marvin A.
Yashinski, Michael E.
Nolasco, Marcos O.
Johnson, Stephen P.
LaMont, Andrew David
Ragimov, Mourad
Spence, Joseph B.
Laskowski, Matthew C.
Hopper, Brian C.
Shumney, Dustin M.
Hazelgrove, Brian D.
Brennan, William I.
House, John Daniel
Moore, Jason William
Jones, Charles S.
Saintvil, Gael
Carl, Richard P.
Ryan, Timothy Louis
Ramos, Hector
Moore, Nathaniel K.
Sisson, Christopher A.
Klein, Allan
Wells, Stephen M.
Boule, Matthew George
Fuller, Travis J.
Starr Jr., Michael L.
Mooney, Adam G.
Schubert, Nathan A.
Dorff, Patrick D.
Pedersen, Michael Francis
Johnson, Christopher B.
Smith, Eric Allen
Kelly, Sean P.
Gibson, Timothy M.
White, Aaron Dean
Finke Jr., Michael W.
Etterling, Jonathan Edward
Knight, Timothy A.
Van Dusen, Brian K.
Gilbert Jr., Richard A,
Grimes, Kyle J.
Moore, James Lee
Shields, Andrew C.
Leach, Patrick D.
Gukeisen, Hans N.
Blaise, Michael T.
Kimble, Dexter S.
Bonilla, Orlando A.
Jafarkhani-Torshizi Jr., Saeed
Jamar, Scott
Hernandez, Tony L.
Rairdan, Rhonald Dain
Alaniz, Paul C.
Bland, Brian D.
Hubbard, Tavon L.
Howard, John R.
Schumann, Darrell J.
Adamouski, James Francis
Gordon, Lyle L.
Maciel, Fred L.
Smith, Matthew R.
Halvorsen, Erik Anders
Seifert, Christopher Scott
Allen, Louis E.
Esposito, Phillip T.
Stone, Gregory Lewis
Robbins, William T.
Parker, Kenya A.
Pinkston, Foster
Chaney, William D.
Ward, Jason M.
Bradley, Kenneth R.
Jones, Michael D.
Hobart, Melissa J.
Sherman, Anthony L.
Johnson, John P.
Smart, Albert E.
Jordan Jr., Curt E.
McVey, Otie Joseph
Colunga, Zeferino E.
Jeffries, William Andrew
Hubbell, Corey A.
Sirko, Steven F.
Kinchen, Levi B.
Moxley Jr., Clifford L.
Davies, Shawn M.
Rivers Jr., Frank K.
Normandy, William J.
Jones, Gussie M.
Barnhill, Edward C.
Adams, Leonard W.
Boling, Craig A.
Loyd, David L.
Allison, Glenn R.
Knighten Jr., Floyd G.
Ivory, Craig S.
Bush, Matthew D.
Eaton Jr., Richard S.
McKinley, Robert L.
Kirchhoff, David M.
Neusche, Joshua M.
Tosto, Michael L.
Simmons, Leonard D.
Thornton, Steven W.
Toney, Timothy
Boles, Dennis J.
Rangel, Jose C.
Spahr, John C.
Hinz, Kelly C.
Bueche, Paul J.
Lennon, Cedric Lamont
Whetstone, Mason Douglas
Suell, Joseph D.
Griffin Jr., Patrick Lee
Foley III, Thomas Arthur
Brown, John Eli
Wong, Elijah Tai Wah
Rodriguez, Jose F. Gonzalez
Kowalik, Jakub Henryk
Tyrrell, Scott Matthew
Kleiboeker, Nicholas Brian
Payne, William L.
Robbins, Thomas D.
Evans Jr., David
Robsky Jr., Joseph E.
Bradachnall, Travis J.
Bollinger Jr., Doyle W.
Coons, James Curtis
Holter III, Paul C.
Casper, James A.
Potter, David L.
Brown, Dominic C.
Edwards, Mark O.
Scheuerman, Jason D.
Scott, David A.
Warren, Mark C.
Winkler, Jordan D.
Sanchez Jr., Efrain
Carter, Justin B.
Lehto, Jason A.
Cedergren, David A.
Jack, Edward E.
Harris, Torry D.
Hull, Thomas C.
Garrison, Landis W.
Wiesemann, Michael J.
Atkins, Shawn M.
Deem, Michael S.
Thigpen Sr., Thomas R.
Razani, Omead H.
Cutter, Brian K.
Ehrlich, Andrew C.
Lee, Samuel S.
Sickels, Kenneth L.
Sisung, David
Farrow, Jefferey J.
Castellano, Stephen A.
Lusk II, Joe Fenton
Case, Virgil R.
Tackett, Joseph M.
Brazee, Joshua T.
Johnson, Lavena L.
Swindell, Nathaniel T.
Becker, Gunnar D.
Brooks, Cory W.
Westhusing, Theodore S.
Ramos, Tamarra J.
Cortes III, Victor M.
Long, Zachariah W.
Matthews, Clint Richard "Bones"
Cox, Gregory A.
Weismantle, Douglas J.
Puello-Coronado, Jaror C.
Carman, Edward W.
Kashmer, Douglas E.
Gleason, Michael T.
Martinez, Michael A.
Serrano, Juan M.
Robles, Lizbeth
Andrade, Michael
Bell-Johnson, Katrina Lani
Ferguson, Rian C.
Meza, Barry K.
Soriano, Armando
Leon-Perez, Jesus A.
Bales, Chad Eric
Siler, Alfred Barton
Ybarra III, Henry
Aston, Trevor D.
Aldrich, Nickalous N.
Machado-Olmos, Cesar F.
Nyren, Nathaniel J.
Gray, Michael J.
Adams, Michael R.
Nakis, Nathan W.
Marin Jr., Javier
Garza, Joe Jesus
Thomas, Kendall
Nachampassak, Krisna
Yolkin, Viktar V.
Sutphin, Ernest Harold
Bruns, Cedric E.
Brown, Jeremy A.
Jansky, Benjamin D.
Hunt, Isaiah R.
Gray, Tommy L.
Behnke, Joseph O.
White, William Wayne
Rooney, Robert E.
Kamolvathin, Alain L.
Griffin, Kyle A.
Chan, Doron
Murray, Rodney A.
Solomon, Roderic Antoine
Dennie, Mike A.
West, James G.
Fisher, David M.
Prevete, James E.
Blickenstaff, Joseph M.
Wesley, Christopher Jude Rivera
Tobler, Brandon Scott
Obaji, Francis C.
Boria, John J.
Hendrickson, Robert T.
Caddy, Marshall H.
Wahl, Gregory L.
Buckley, Roy Russell
Bacon, Henry A.
Fitzgerald, Dustin R.
Baragona, Dominic Rocco
Kim, In C.
Bushart, Damian S.
Davis, Donald N.
Petriken, Brett J.
Goward, Richard Allen
Carlson, Michael C.
Rice, Demetrius Lamont
Zaun, Mickey E.
McConnell, Daniel James
Rahaim, Joseph A.
Osbey, Timothy R.
McNail, Robert A.
Lambert, Jonathan W.
Tucker, Marc Lucas
Mazzarella, Anthony M.
Burkhardt, Travis L.
Spink, Trevor
Givens, Jesse Alan
Witt, Owen D.
Corral, Dennis A.
Caldwell, Nathaniel A.
Guastaferro, Daniel F.
Perez Jr., Richard A.
Cometa, Anthony S.
Ferguson, Richard L.
Derenda, Robert V.
DuSang, Robert L.
Nalley, Kenneth A.
Rice, David L.
Johnson, Markus J.
Pettaway Jr., James L.
Spry, Bryan N.
Sarno, Cameron B.
Reed, Christopher J.
Ogburn III, John B.
Salem, Adriana N.
Petsche, Neil D.
Neeley, Charles L.
Pokorny, Andrew R.
Wilson, Bryan S.
Allen Jr., Ronald D.
Leduc, Ryan
Farmer, Donald B.
Smith, Matthew R.
Hart Jr., Nathaniel
Nutt, David T.
Gillican III, Charles C.
Whitaker, Marquis A.
Rivero, John Travis
Roberts, Robert D.
Shields, Jonathan B.
Negron, Julio E.
Laramore, Tracy L.
Davis, Daryl A.
Wilson, Dana N.
Arroyave, Jimmy J.
Thompson, Jarrett B.
Kenny, Christopher J.
Walden, Brett Eugene
Holmes Ordóñez, Terry
Stevens, Joseph W.
Nason, Christopher G.
Tetrault, Jason
Sprayberry III, Marvin R.
Bridges, Steven H.
Martinez, Jesse J.
Mariano, Jude C.
Mihalakis, Michael G.
Slocum, Richard Patrick
Guerra, Ernesto R.
Martinezluis, Trinidad R.
Marcus Jr., Lyndon A.
Parker, Daniel R.
Casanova, Jose
Hines, Keicia M.
Larsen, Cole W.
Marencoreyes, Douglas Jose
Brown, Bruce E.
Willoughby, Christopher R.
Reeder, Edward T.
Wilson, Nicholas E.
Halal, Michael J.
Schall, Kenneth J.
Mora, Michael A.
Harris-Kelly, Leroy
Salas, Rudy
Lake, Chad W.
Strickland, Thomas J.
Dingler, Joshua P.
Saylor, Paul A.
Smith, Darrell L.
Palmer, Joshua D.
Gooding, Dakotah L.
Knox Jr., Rene
Coleman, Gary B.
Williams, Ronnie D.
Lam, Jeffrey
Rangel, Ray
Time, Tina Safaira
Bell, Rusty W.
Briones Jr., Pablito Pena
Acosta, Steven
McIntosh, Joshua
Peterson, Alyssa R.
Manzano, Pablo
Horn, Sean
Luna, Kevin M.
Sanford Sr., Barry
Braun, Jeffrey F.
Miller Jr., Bruce
Mercado, Gil
Souslin, Kenneth C.
Ramsey, Joshua A.
Sweet II, Thomas J.
Henthorn, Jeffrey S.
Scott, Stephen M.
Maher, Jarrod L.
McGaugh, Dustin K.
Guy, Robert A. "Bobby"
Milczark, Matthew G.
Castro, Roland L.
Dalley, Nathan S.
Deibler, Jason L.
Benson, Robert T.
Ratzlaff, Gregory A.
Sturino, Paul J.
Bailey, Nathan J.
Espaillat Jr., Pedro I.
Schultz, Christian C.
Valles, Melissa
Adams, Algernon
Brabazon, Edward W.
Small, Corey L.
Maglione III, Joseph Basil
Mayek, Joseph Patrick
Longstreth, Duane E.
Shull, James A.
Goldberg, David J.
Moreno, David J.
Reynolds, Sean C.
Kreider, Dustin L.
Cox, Ryan R.
Lambert III, James I.
Gurtner, Christian Daniel
Sullivan, Narson Bertil
Sahib, Rasheed
Orlowski, Eric James
Pollard, Justin W.
Channell Jr., Robert William
Lam, Alan Dinh
Arnold, Andrew Todd
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Post by Kylere »

Actually if the death was not related to combat it should not count, Vietnam started that REMF concept of everyone is a kia even if they had diabetes.

Death rate in the military is lower among the deployed than the non deployed.
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Post by miir »

if the death was not related to combat it should not count
Quoted to emphasize the simple yet elegant absurdity.
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Post by Seebs »

Can I get a list of AIDS deaths too please .. oh, and I'd like A Pancreatic Cancer list as well.

:roll:

Pharming wit ha death list .. incorrigible!
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Post by Kylere »

miir wrote:
if the death was not related to combat it should not count
Quoted to emphasize the simple yet elegant absurdity.

Just like you Miir, out of context and without value.

If you want me to spell out that non combat deaths should not be considered in developing a total of war deaths, then I will, but anyone with a room temp IQ understood that.
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Post by miir »

I'm not the one who started arguing semantics.


If you want to start arguing semantics, I'm not gonna resist the temptation to make you guys look like idiots.
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

You were the one who started out with the inability to read before jumping into a post telling me I was wrong.
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Post by miir »

Semantics.
Do you know what it means?
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Post by Kylere »

Yeah you think semantics is the only issue when we are seeing it as hundreds of lives, but then again the lives do not bother you, as long as it supports your issues.

That is sad.
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Post by Nick »

Kilmoll bleated:
You were the one who started out with the inability to read before jumping into a post telling me I was wrong.
You fucking joke. Your post was wrong in literally every way a post could possibly be. I love how your self satisfied little smug post (quoted above - for comedy) shows nothing more than your complete ineptitude at discussing even the most basic points of contention.

Yeah you think semantics is the only issue when we are seeing it as hundreds of lives, but then again the lives do not bother you, as long as it supports your issues.

That is sad.
You know what's even sadder?

The fact these guys died in vain of some retarded war based on lies that does nothing but hurt your own self righteous position of moral guards of the planet, economy, world perception of you, stability in the Middle East whilst at the same time increasing the amount of people who would be and are willing to die attacking your ridiculous nation through "omg terror" - and all the while you fuckos have the nerve to pretend you actually gave two flying shits about their deaths.

Hypocritical cunts.
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Post by Metanis »

Nick wrote:The fact these guys died in vain...
There are many millions or even billions of people around the world who would disagree with your statement.

I know this is very difficult for you to comprehend but you must realize that many of us who actually vote in the USA (and hence have elected Republicans), actually feel your position is dangerously wrong, morally reprehensible, and simply unacceptable.
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Post by Animalor »

Actually only clightly more than half of you voted for Bush. The other half is still scratching their heads..
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Post by Winnow »

Animalor wrote:Actually only clightly more than half of you voted for Bush. The other half is still scratching their heads..
If Kerry was in office, we'd have world peace, free gas and no taxes by now.
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Post by Arborealus »

Metanis wrote:
Nick wrote:The fact these guys died in vain...
There are many millions or even billions of people around the world who would disagree with your statement.

I know this is very difficult for you to comprehend but you must realize that many of us who actually vote in the USA (and hence have elected Republicans), actually feel your position is dangerously wrong, morally reprehensible, and simply unacceptable.
Then there are the sensible people...
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Post by Kylere »

Actually much fewer than half voted for Bush, 100million votes cast from a population over 300million.

What happened is 50million voted Bush, 50million voted Kerry and 200million voted "I do not give a fuck" the rest are all minors. The real loser in the election was democracy.
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Post by Nick »

Billions? Are you on crack?

If you had any idea of how much of the world thought you fucking crackpots were retarded you would probably cry into your fucking bed.

Morally reprehensible? Why? Because we don't support the hegemony of your fucking wet dream capitalist nirvana?

Dont make me laugh.
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Post by Sirton »

She has the right to do what she wants,

but its sickening what the media and the left wing cronies have done with her....From what I hear her husband and family have now left her. A true sign they are disgustingly dragging her sons corpse in a story that he himself would be disgraced about himself. Poor greiving mother being used By sacks of shit that need to be killed.
CRY HAVOC...........AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR!!!!!
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Post by Dregor Thule »

They had split up before this began. Was something like after their son died the stress/what have you drove a rift between them. And what do you mean what the leftist media has done. You must watch Fox, you know they report on it too.
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Post by kyoukan »

cindy sheehan is a credit to her country
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